Planet Harriers - is it a shmup

[awbacon]

https://youtu.be/ZSSKJSII1rY

Normally I leave all links in one thread, but I wanted to ask ; do you consider Planet Harriers a shmup? Off the top I wanted to call it a “3D run and gun”....but the more I played the more it distinctly felt more shmup like.

One day I’ll finally get a working pcb for my collection, and I think I’d put it next to my other shmups pcb’s lol

[MathU]

Yes, it clearly has all the basic mechanics of other genre members (ability to shoot at things and freedom of movement to dodge things). The only difference is an extra dimension.

[awbacon]

Yes, it clearly has all the basic mechanics of other genre members (ability to shoot at things and freedom of movement to dodge things). The only difference is an extra dimension.

I’ve heard some people call it a “corridor shooter”, which didn’t seem accurate to me

[dark]

To me personally, I think the term shmup suggests a side view or top down view game. How often are people on these forums, a veritable nexus for talking about shmups and shmup strategies, talking about these chase view games with similar mechanics like space harrier, galaxy force, panzer dragoon, star fox, iridion 3d or afterburner? Even though both styles of games involve shooting at enemies, often from a spaceship, I feel like the gameplay feels different. For me personally, I like top down and side view shmups, but am basically never that interested in playing the chase view stuff like space harrier.

Of course I don't make the rules, but that's the connotation shmup has to me.

[dark]

I’ve heard some people call it a “corridor shooter”, which didn’t seem accurate to me

This is the connotation corridor shooter has to me

[Koa Zo]

do you consider Planet Harriers a shmup?

No, this has been discussed and hashed-out on this forum ad nauseum.
It is an on-rails shooter - like Star Fax, Panzer Dragoon, Rez etc. They are not shoot'em-ups.

Moving an aiming reticle around the screen is not a shmup.

[MathU]

Moving an aiming reticle around the screen is not a shmup.

Agreed, unfortunately that's not all you're doing in this game. Star Fox plays entirely differently from Rez or House of the Dead, it's not a rail shooter.

[To Far Away Times]

To me personally, I think the term shmup suggests a side view or top down view game. How often are people on these forums, a veritable nexus for talking about shmups and shmup strategies, talking about these chase view games with similar mechanics like space harrier, galaxy force, panzer dragoon, star fox, iridion 3d or afterburner? Even though both styles of games involve shooting at enemies, often from a spaceship, I feel like the gameplay feels different. For me personally, I like top down and side view shmups, but am basically never that interested in playing the chase view stuff like space harrier.

Of course I don't make the rules, but that's the connotation shmup has to me.

This is pretty much my view on it. I wouldn't consider Starfox, Afterburner, or Galaxy Force to be shmups even though I'm a big fan of all those games. Those are their own catagory of games.

It is all very subjective though.

I wouldn't put Contra and Megaman in the same genre even though you jump and shoot and scroll the screen from left to right in both. It depends what the focus is. Contra is focused on the shooting aspect, and Megaman is focused on the platforming.

[awbacon]

It’s an interesting thought process that’s for sure. Maybe it’s somewhere in between, as it feels fast and dynamic enough to be a “shmup lite” maybe

[XtraSmiley]

do you consider Planet Harriers a shmup?

No, this has been discussed and hashed-out on this forum ad nauseum.
It is an on-rails shooter - like Star Fax, Panzer Dragoon, Rez etc. They are not shoot'em-ups.

Moving an aiming reticle around the screen is not a shmup.

I think on-rail shooter, but that's like rock, classic rock, alt rock, etc in music. classic rock is still rock, it's just a more specific category. So can an on-rail shooter, still be a shmup, just more specific. If shmup is the parent category of shooters.

[ShotOfSelf]

Not a shmup but there are a lot of similarities. Shmups are a sub-genre of the action genre, Contra is part of the action genre but is not a STG. I love Space Harrier but if I'm in the mood for some shmup action I definitely wouldn't put it on, same goes for Super Thunder Blade and every other rail shooter. These are the rules laid down by the vidyagame God himself so we better follow them.

[velo]

Is Zaxxon a shmup? Is it a rail shooter?

https://youtu.be/Ta0xVtQ_fnk

[m.sniffles.esq]

Here we go again...

PS Planet Harriers is AWESOME
So good. I have no idea why there wasn't a Dreamcast port (seeing that Dreamcast symbols are in the freaking game). I was waiting anxiously for it, and it never happened.

[dark]

Is Karous a shmup? I feel like its easier and you can get a higher score if you focus almost exclusively on using the sword rather than the standard shot weapon.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Is Karous a shmup? I feel like its easier and you can get a higher score if you focus almost exclusively on using the sword rather than the standard shot weapon.

Ha!
It's a swmup
(Sword 'em up)

[Turrican]

The only difference is an extra dimension.

Which of course makes a world of difference. In a genre so basic, adding a whole new dimension means, strictly in terms of classification, more distance than you could have between mammals and reptiles.

[blossom]

Moving an aiming reticle around the screen is not a shmup.

Then I suppose Space Battleship Gomora/Bio-ship Paladin is also not a shmup?

On a related note, why does the annual top 25 voting thread strictly disallow games like Cabal, NAM-1975 and Gauntlet, yet manually advancing games like Kiki Kaikai and Kaitei Daisensou are allowed? What's really the difference, in the end, between Gauntlet and Kiki Kaikai? I don't see any good reason Star Fox and Rez should not be considered a part of the genre.

[MathU]

Rez and other genuine rail shooters like House of the Dead and Ghost Squad make sense to exclude because you don't control an avatar and have no real way to avoid hazards other than shooting them down. That's such a fundamental difference in gameplay that I think Star Fox has more in common with Gradius than Rez. Cabal, NAM-1975, and other cabal shooters like Wild Guns and Sin and Punishment on the other hand have freedom of movement that actually isn't a whole lot different from Space Invaders and Galaga. Heck, in Space Invaders you can even shoot down enemy bullets like in cabal shooters! If we encompass Space Invaders in the genre then perhaps all cabal shooters should be invited too.

[Turrican]

On a related note, why does the annual top 25 voting thread strictly disallow games like Cabal, NAM-1975 and Gauntlet, yet manually advancing games like Kiki Kaikai and Kaitei Daisensou are allowed? What's really the difference, in the end, between Gauntlet and Kiki Kaikai? I don't see any good reason Star Fox and Rez should not be considered a part of the genre.

On the contrary, there are plenty of good reasons. The best reasoning here is that when you are classifying, the more precise and limited a description, the most useful it will be. Remember: "shoot'em ups" is a word that has its origins in the British magazines. With "shmups" we define a subgenre, not a genre. There's a broad family of (generically intended) "shooting games" which is a large umbrella which have room for everything, from Space Harrier to run'n guns.

Don't fool yourself: there's a world of difference between Kiki Kaikai and Gauntlet (not that Kiki Kaikai counts as a shmup imho, only as a borderline case). Both have manual advance that rules them out, but one shares with the shmups subgenre 97% of its DNA, to the point that if you could add forced scrolling to it you wouldn't even notice the difference. The other has emphasis not on shooting but on maze and surroundings. Has selectable classes with different attributes, items to pick up, resources as food and gold to administer. The enemies you fight have all a different behaviour and way to be fought; in short, we're a few steps from Doom (notoriously a Gauntlet in first person) and few steps from Druaga or Zelda.

Heck, in Space Invaders you can even shoot down enemy bullets like in cabal shooters! If we encompass Space Invaders in the genre then perhaps all cabal shooters should be invited too.

Shooters or shooting games is fine for Cabal and the likes. Why welcoming Space Invaders into shmups you ask? Well, for one thing, the lineage is direct. So yeah... One-axis shmups might not be homo sapiens but are definitely homo erectus.