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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:52 am 


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I bought Strikers 1945 and Gunbird for Steam. As far as I can tell, they are definitely more responsive than the Switch versions. I'm still curious about how much lag the actual PCB has for Strikers, though. I'm not sure on this, but some posts I have seen on forums claiming the PCB is laggy and the amount of lag in other emulators like MAME give me the impression that even the PCB itself may have 4 frames of lag.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:04 am 


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Gonna play devil's advocate here since I don't see anyone else arguing the contrary. To all the people making these vague "support the genre" arguments: What evidence do you have that money from these purchases even goes to the original developers and would encourage them to make some cool games again? I'd say the likelihood is actually quite high that a) they're not even with Psikyo anymore since the company hasn't made anything for ages, b) they never had a royalty deal in their contract in the first place, and c) it's likely just one or a handful of rights holders squatting on Psikyo's old intellectual properties that get anything out of this. This is the industry norm for this sort of situation, this wouldn't be any sort of exception.

I think we all want to believe in the market force of supply and demand--we all want to think we have some connection to old developers we respect through our wallets and sales. But the reality is that intellectual property law exists and it allows small groups of bosses, shareholders, and publishers to take control of a product out of the hands of the people who made it in the first place. I can think of very few clear instances where sales of an old game managed to convince its original developers to come out of retirement and make a new follow-up to it. I believe the original creators of Descent (well, two of them anyway) came back to make Overload a couple years ago due largely to the popularity of Descent on GOG. But even they had to sue Interplay in order to get paid the royalties they were entitled for those Descent sales. And that's an example where original developers actually still had some control decades later over the thing they made. Most don't.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 6:54 am 


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Technically, ZeroDiv/CityConnection announced (and promised) Strikers 2020, to come out in 2020. Though outside of that announcement, absolutely nothing.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:12 am 


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You can't interpret "supporting the genre" as limited only to filling the pockets of the original devs.

Regardless of if the original programmers do or do not receive cash, successful/profitable shmup releases must surely be beneficial. If the video games industry begins to regard shmups as profitable, then publishers will seek out more shmups to release, both from back catalogues (great) and new studios (great), and developers will start looking at the genre as a viable option.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:36 am 


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I'm more depressed with thought that "support from us" isn't enough for them.

Otherwise degica, for example, would have not stopped and instead of shifting to rpgs/VNs could contunue their shmupper crusade.

:|

Quote:
saddens me a little to see every release greeted with such negativity.


What, you propose that any shmup release is somehow a "holy cow" now (geez it's like zelda botw where you considered awful person if u gave it lower than 9 or 10 rating) and anyone who dares to point at some disadvantages is evil heretic? :roll: that's some black and white thinking... stop playing ikaruga :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:50 pm 


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Actually, I heard mixed things about input lag for both the switch and PS4 AA. I also found forum ports complaining about the Xbox 360 ACA Neogeo games and claiming that the Switch has less input lag than those. I'm not sure if the PS4 AA games have less, but the ones I have on both systems seemed comparable, for the most part. I'm under the impression that the PC versions of the Psyiko games do have less input lag than the switch, but I got no reply when trying to find out if it was possible that the games could have the same amount of input lag as the switch with V-Sync on.

I also heard mixed things about the input lag on Switch in general. Ikaruga, the Switch Online NES/SNES games, Sonic Mania, and a few of the M2 ports all have low input lag on switch. Some collections like the Mega Man X Legacy Collection and the Genesis Classics Collection have bad input lag on all platforms. I remember reading that input lag was not the reason M2 delayed the their switch games, and later I see a post that claims the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:58 pm 


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MathU wrote:
Gonna play devil's advocate here since I don't see anyone else arguing the contrary. To all the people making these vague "support the genre" arguments: What evidence do you have that money from these purchases even goes to the original developers and would encourage them to make some cool games again? I'd say the likelihood is actually quite high that a) they're not even with Psikyo anymore since the company hasn't made anything for ages, b) they never had a royalty deal in their contract in the first place, and c) it's likely just one or a handful of rights holders squatting on Psikyo's old intellectual properties that get anything out of this. This is the industry norm for this sort of situation, this wouldn't be any sort of exception.

I think we all want to believe in the market force of supply and demand--we all want to think we have some connection to old developers we respect through our wallets and sales. But the reality is that intellectual property law exists and it allows small groups of bosses, shareholders, and publishers to take control of a product out of the hands of the people who made it in the first place. I can think of very few clear instances where sales of an old game managed to convince its original developers to come out of retirement and make a new follow-up to it. I believe the original creators of Descent (well, two of them anyway) came back to make Overload a couple years ago due largely to the popularity of Descent on GOG. But even they had to sue Interplay in order to get paid the royalties they were entitled for those Descent sales. And that's an example where original developers actually still had some control decades later over the thing they made. Most don't.



First time I log in here for years. First thread I open, and what do I see? MathU sperging autistically about DRMs, and getting into "THE MARKET" debate that no one but him cares about, derailing threads.

Some things never change.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 9:58 am 



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The next title to be released, after this week's already announced launch of STRIKERS 1945 II, is GUNBIRD 2 (June 10th):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279410/GUNBIRD_2/


In other news, all games previously released were patched, so that there's now a proper quit option (previously, you had to use ALT+F4 to quit the games).


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:45 am 


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is it ok that continuing doesnt restart score to 0? i dodnt remember how it was in original

:?:
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:57 am 


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Do they at least stick the telltale "1" of extreme shame on the ones digit?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 11:58 am 



Joined: 03 Nov 2019
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BIL wrote:
Do they at least stick the telltale "1" of extreme shame on the ones digit?


Just tried the Samurai Aces and Gunbird ports, and they do add 1 point to the ones digit. I'm guessing it's the same for Strikers and for the two upcoming ports. But I'm also not sure if that's how it was done in the originals (computer got nuked and I haven't set MAME back up on it, so can't test at the moment).


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 6:57 pm 


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More importantly, does continuing still let you upload your score to the leaderboard?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 9:28 pm 


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Nah, scores are only recorded to the leaderboard in Score Attack mode, which limits you to one credit. (I haven't spent any time in the normal modes in these ports, which presumably let you mess around to your heart's content.)

Really glad that Gunbird 2 is up next. If it's not the most technical Psikyo shmup, it's certainly the most beautiful.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:45 am 


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From Jaimers' twitter:

Jaimers wrote:
Gunbird 2-ALL on the recent Steam port. Lucky run without the 2nd loop train stage.
Very weird port. Lots of subtle and not-so-subtle differences and some jank that wasn't there in the original arcade version.
Port is also easier. The bullets in the 2nd loop are visibly slower.


Curious if anyone knows what differences/jank are present here. Are the slower 2nd loop bullets present in the other recent Psikyo ports as well?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:57 am 


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CStarFlare wrote:
From Jaimers' twitter:

Jaimers wrote:
Gunbird 2-ALL on the recent Steam port. Lucky run without the 2nd loop train stage.
Very weird port. Lots of subtle and not-so-subtle differences and some jank that wasn't there in the original arcade version.
Port is also easier. The bullets in the 2nd loop are visibly slower.


What is with these godless devs and not just emulating the motherfucking games 1:1, like I can already do FO FREE? :| NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN YOUR RETARDED TWEAKS. YOU ARE A TRANSCRIBER, AND THE EXCELLENCE OF YOUR WORK DEMANDS THAT YOU BE UNDETECTABLE. Image

EDIT: MUH QUOTE TAGS :shock:
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Last edited by BIL on Wed May 27, 2020 6:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:00 am 


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Is the Gunbird 2 port based off the PS2 version? I heard that port has some differences from the arcade. I don't know what the heck Zerodiv did with the Switch ports to introduce so much lag without the overhead of emulation. The games also seem to be using assets from the PS1 and Saturn versions of the games. Even the menus with the numbered difficulty are similar.

Is the DC port of Gunbird 2 accurate? It was published by Capcom and has Morrigan, but seems to have be developed by Psyiko themselves complete with odd Yoko modes that don't use the game's original aspect ratio.

Edit: Doh. I misread the post. 2-All of Gunbird 1. Gunbird 2 Steam isn't out yet.


Last edited by BrianC on Wed May 27, 2020 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:02 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Is the Gunbird 2 port based off the PS2 version? I heard that port has some differences from the arcade.


...that would explain a lot.

If the Strikers II port is the PS1 version, again, I'm going to LOL IRL Image
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:07 am 


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City Connection lessened the difficulty of Game Tengoku's 2nd loop as well, though that was clearly intentional and more of a rebalance effort. I wonder if this is still ZeroDiv's fiddling (bungling?). Let's see if the older switch ver of Gunbird had changed palettes. Does this faded pic of the castle stage ring a bell?

I believe the arcade ver of the second loop is supposed to have the castle stage be set in winter.
Looks like there are still some emulation problems left unfixed with the ZeroDiv ports.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:11 am 


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AFAIK, Tengoku's Saturn port has a much easier second loop compared to the PCB, too. I wonder if CC's version re-used the Saturn code.
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Last edited by BIL on Wed May 27, 2020 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:15 am 


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Considering the Saturn mode is there on the PS4/Steam/Switch version entirely intact, I think that's a pretty good guess, actually!
Resident Tengoku expert Maurener/MauCast doesn't like any of the ports as much as the original because of this (and a notable exception*). Vice-grip my balls or go home, I guess!

*the ports also make it much harder to milk the final boss by removing a safe-spot that exists in the arcade version. Hence your eggplant orgies will never be as out of control as they are on MAME. This is the only change I find questionable.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:25 am 


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I think this generation's sharp dichotomy of God Ports and Dog Ports has finally turned me into a real old elitist prick. >_> I will pay these chaps many fousands of the king's good pounds to just slap a ROM on my console (impeccably emulated, obviously!), with the sole accoutrement of an absolutely massive red button at the startup screen labeled "ARCADE MODE: WTF IS A PAUSE MENU" (your controller rumbles violently when it's highlighted, to let you know you're on the verge of awakening TEH FUCKIN FURY :shock:).

Stick everything else (like a savestate-enabled practice mode! those are PRECISELY what a modern port should offer!) under a much friendlier blue button called "Other" (controller purrs amiably when highlighted). Job done! Image Don't ever get the arrange mode PB in the arcade mode chocolate. :evil: The blaspheming, cheeky cunts! Image
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:17 am 


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EmperorIng wrote:


I believe the arcade ver of the second loop is supposed to have the castle stage be set in winter.


Odd thing is that the Saturn port has the stage set in winter in the second loop, but the PS2 version doesn't (unless there's an odd bug where the setting of the stage doesn't change if it's encountered as the first stage in the second loop).

One thing I noticed is that the original PS1 and Saturn versions still have that lame Now Loading screen with the rabbit. I assumed it was something exclusive to Mobile Light Force, though I'm not surprised the loading is still there.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:12 am 


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Presumably it's possible to correct the bullet speeds in a patch (undo whatever changes were made, if that's what's happened), but what are the other gameplay differences? It's been a while since I broke out my copy of the Special Edition so I'm unsure of what was altered in the PS2 port of Gunbird 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:02 pm 


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Jaimers posted a video of his Gunbird 2-ALL and included some details of what's inaccurate in the description.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:36 pm 


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Thanks! Some of it's pretty egregious, eh - differences so great that old strategies don't work, etc. Really hope these are simple enough to fix...

Another comparatively minor aesthetic change I haven't seen mentioned, which seems to be a feature in all the Psikyo ports, is that most of the text (for dialogue, character selection, etc) is delivered via an obvious hi-def overlay, even though in-game translations already existed.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 7:37 am 



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After GUNBIRD 2, the next title to be released will be TENGAI (June 22nd):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279370/TENGAI/

---

So it's STRIKERS 1945 II tomorrow:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279 ... RS_1945_II

GUNBIRD 2 on June 10th:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279410/GUNBIRD_2

And TENGAI on June 22nd:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279370/TENGAI/


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