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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:52 am 


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I bought Strikers 1945 and Gunbird for Steam. As far as I can tell, they are definitely more responsive than the Switch versions. I'm still curious about how much lag the actual PCB has for Strikers, though. I'm not sure on this, but some posts I have seen on forums claiming the PCB is laggy and the amount of lag in other emulators like MAME give me the impression that even the PCB itself may have 4 frames of lag.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 3:04 am 


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Gonna play devil's advocate here since I don't see anyone else arguing the contrary. To all the people making these vague "support the genre" arguments: What evidence do you have that money from these purchases even goes to the original developers and would encourage them to make some cool games again? I'd say the likelihood is actually quite high that a) they're not even with Psikyo anymore since the company hasn't made anything for ages, b) they never had a royalty deal in their contract in the first place, and c) it's likely just one or a handful of rights holders squatting on Psikyo's old intellectual properties that get anything out of this. This is the industry norm for this sort of situation, this wouldn't be any sort of exception.

I think we all want to believe in the market force of supply and demand--we all want to think we have some connection to old developers we respect through our wallets and sales. But the reality is that intellectual property law exists and it allows small groups of bosses, shareholders, and publishers to take control of a product out of the hands of the people who made it in the first place. I can think of very few clear instances where sales of an old game managed to convince its original developers to come out of retirement and make a new follow-up to it. I believe the original creators of Descent (well, two of them anyway) came back to make Overload a couple years ago due largely to the popularity of Descent on GOG. But even they had to sue Interplay in order to get paid the royalties they were entitled for those Descent sales. And that's an example where original developers actually still had some control decades later over the thing they made. Most don't.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 6:54 am 


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Technically, ZeroDiv/CityConnection announced (and promised) Strikers 2020, to come out in 2020. Though outside of that announcement, absolutely nothing.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:12 am 


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You can't interpret "supporting the genre" as limited only to filling the pockets of the original devs.

Regardless of if the original programmers do or do not receive cash, successful/profitable shmup releases must surely be beneficial. If the video games industry begins to regard shmups as profitable, then publishers will seek out more shmups to release, both from back catalogues (great) and new studios (great), and developers will start looking at the genre as a viable option.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:36 am 


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I'm more depressed with thought that "support from us" isn't enough for them.

Otherwise degica, for example, would have not stopped and instead of shifting to rpgs/VNs could contunue their shmupper crusade.

:|

Quote:
saddens me a little to see every release greeted with such negativity.


What, you propose that any shmup release is somehow a "holy cow" now (geez it's like zelda botw where you considered awful person if u gave it lower than 9 or 10 rating) and anyone who dares to point at some disadvantages is evil heretic? :roll: that's some black and white thinking... stop playing ikaruga :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:50 pm 


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Actually, I heard mixed things about input lag for both the switch and PS4 AA. I also found forum ports complaining about the Xbox 360 ACA Neogeo games and claiming that the Switch has less input lag than those. I'm not sure if the PS4 AA games have less, but the ones I have on both systems seemed comparable, for the most part. I'm under the impression that the PC versions of the Psyiko games do have less input lag than the switch, but I got no reply when trying to find out if it was possible that the games could have the same amount of input lag as the switch with V-Sync on.

I also heard mixed things about the input lag on Switch in general. Ikaruga, the Switch Online NES/SNES games, Sonic Mania, and a few of the M2 ports all have low input lag on switch. Some collections like the Mega Man X Legacy Collection and the Genesis Classics Collection have bad input lag on all platforms. I remember reading that input lag was not the reason M2 delayed the their switch games, and later I see a post that claims the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:58 pm 


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MathU wrote:
Gonna play devil's advocate here since I don't see anyone else arguing the contrary. To all the people making these vague "support the genre" arguments: What evidence do you have that money from these purchases even goes to the original developers and would encourage them to make some cool games again? I'd say the likelihood is actually quite high that a) they're not even with Psikyo anymore since the company hasn't made anything for ages, b) they never had a royalty deal in their contract in the first place, and c) it's likely just one or a handful of rights holders squatting on Psikyo's old intellectual properties that get anything out of this. This is the industry norm for this sort of situation, this wouldn't be any sort of exception.

I think we all want to believe in the market force of supply and demand--we all want to think we have some connection to old developers we respect through our wallets and sales. But the reality is that intellectual property law exists and it allows small groups of bosses, shareholders, and publishers to take control of a product out of the hands of the people who made it in the first place. I can think of very few clear instances where sales of an old game managed to convince its original developers to come out of retirement and make a new follow-up to it. I believe the original creators of Descent (well, two of them anyway) came back to make Overload a couple years ago due largely to the popularity of Descent on GOG. But even they had to sue Interplay in order to get paid the royalties they were entitled for those Descent sales. And that's an example where original developers actually still had some control decades later over the thing they made. Most don't.



First time I log in here for years. First thread I open, and what do I see? MathU sperging autistically about DRMs, and getting into "THE MARKET" debate that no one but him cares about, derailing threads.

Some things never change.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 9:58 am 



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The next title to be released, after this week's already announced launch of STRIKERS 1945 II, is GUNBIRD 2 (June 10th):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279410/GUNBIRD_2/


In other news, all games previously released were patched, so that there's now a proper quit option (previously, you had to use ALT+F4 to quit the games).


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:45 am 


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is it ok that continuing doesnt restart score to 0? i dodnt remember how it was in original

:?:
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:57 am 


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Do they at least stick the telltale "1" of extreme shame on the ones digit?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 11:58 am 



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BIL wrote:
Do they at least stick the telltale "1" of extreme shame on the ones digit?


Just tried the Samurai Aces and Gunbird ports, and they do add 1 point to the ones digit. I'm guessing it's the same for Strikers and for the two upcoming ports. But I'm also not sure if that's how it was done in the originals (computer got nuked and I haven't set MAME back up on it, so can't test at the moment).


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 6:57 pm 


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More importantly, does continuing still let you upload your score to the leaderboard?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 9:28 pm 


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Nah, scores are only recorded to the leaderboard in Score Attack mode, which limits you to one credit. (I haven't spent any time in the normal modes in these ports, which presumably let you mess around to your heart's content.)

Really glad that Gunbird 2 is up next. If it's not the most technical Psikyo shmup, it's certainly the most beautiful.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:45 am 


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From Jaimers' twitter:

Jaimers wrote:
Gunbird 2-ALL on the recent Steam port. Lucky run without the 2nd loop train stage.
Very weird port. Lots of subtle and not-so-subtle differences and some jank that wasn't there in the original arcade version.
Port is also easier. The bullets in the 2nd loop are visibly slower.


Curious if anyone knows what differences/jank are present here. Are the slower 2nd loop bullets present in the other recent Psikyo ports as well?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:57 am 


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CStarFlare wrote:
From Jaimers' twitter:

Jaimers wrote:
Gunbird 2-ALL on the recent Steam port. Lucky run without the 2nd loop train stage.
Very weird port. Lots of subtle and not-so-subtle differences and some jank that wasn't there in the original arcade version.
Port is also easier. The bullets in the 2nd loop are visibly slower.


What is with these godless devs and not just emulating the motherfucking games 1:1, like I can already do FO FREE? :| NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN YOUR RETARDED TWEAKS. YOU ARE A TRANSCRIBER, AND THE EXCELLENCE OF YOUR WORK DEMANDS THAT YOU BE UNDETECTABLE. Image

EDIT: MUH QUOTE TAGS :shock:
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Last edited by BIL on Wed May 27, 2020 6:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:00 am 


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Is the Gunbird 2 port based off the PS2 version? I heard that port has some differences from the arcade. I don't know what the heck Zerodiv did with the Switch ports to introduce so much lag without the overhead of emulation. The games also seem to be using assets from the PS1 and Saturn versions of the games. Even the menus with the numbered difficulty are similar.

Is the DC port of Gunbird 2 accurate? It was published by Capcom and has Morrigan, but seems to have be developed by Psyiko themselves complete with odd Yoko modes that don't use the game's original aspect ratio.

Edit: Doh. I misread the post. 2-All of Gunbird 1. Gunbird 2 Steam isn't out yet.


Last edited by BrianC on Wed May 27, 2020 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:02 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Is the Gunbird 2 port based off the PS2 version? I heard that port has some differences from the arcade.


...that would explain a lot.

If the Strikers II port is the PS1 version, again, I'm going to LOL IRL Image
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:07 am 


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City Connection lessened the difficulty of Game Tengoku's 2nd loop as well, though that was clearly intentional and more of a rebalance effort. I wonder if this is still ZeroDiv's fiddling (bungling?). Let's see if the older switch ver of Gunbird had changed palettes. Does this faded pic of the castle stage ring a bell?

I believe the arcade ver of the second loop is supposed to have the castle stage be set in winter.
Looks like there are still some emulation problems left unfixed with the ZeroDiv ports.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:11 am 


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AFAIK, Tengoku's Saturn port has a much easier second loop compared to the PCB, too. I wonder if CC's version re-used the Saturn code.
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Last edited by BIL on Wed May 27, 2020 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:15 am 


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Considering the Saturn mode is there on the PS4/Steam/Switch version entirely intact, I think that's a pretty good guess, actually!
Resident Tengoku expert Maurener/MauCast doesn't like any of the ports as much as the original because of this (and a notable exception*). Vice-grip my balls or go home, I guess!

*the ports also make it much harder to milk the final boss by removing a safe-spot that exists in the arcade version. Hence your eggplant orgies will never be as out of control as they are on MAME. This is the only change I find questionable.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:25 am 


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I think this generation's sharp dichotomy of God Ports and Dog Ports has finally turned me into a real old elitist prick. >_> I will pay these chaps many fousands of the king's good pounds to just slap a ROM on my console (impeccably emulated, obviously!), with the sole accoutrement of an absolutely massive red button at the startup screen labeled "ARCADE MODE: WTF IS A PAUSE MENU" (your controller rumbles violently when it's highlighted, to let you know you're on the verge of awakening TEH FUCKIN FURY :shock:).

Stick everything else (like a savestate-enabled practice mode! those are PRECISELY what a modern port should offer!) under a much friendlier blue button called "Other" (controller purrs amiably when highlighted). Job done! Image Don't ever get the arrange mode PB in the arcade mode chocolate. :evil: The blaspheming, cheeky cunts! Image
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:17 am 


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EmperorIng wrote:


I believe the arcade ver of the second loop is supposed to have the castle stage be set in winter.


Odd thing is that the Saturn port has the stage set in winter in the second loop, but the PS2 version doesn't (unless there's an odd bug where the setting of the stage doesn't change if it's encountered as the first stage in the second loop).

One thing I noticed is that the original PS1 and Saturn versions still have that lame Now Loading screen with the rabbit. I assumed it was something exclusive to Mobile Light Force, though I'm not surprised the loading is still there.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:12 am 


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Presumably it's possible to correct the bullet speeds in a patch (undo whatever changes were made, if that's what's happened), but what are the other gameplay differences? It's been a while since I broke out my copy of the Special Edition so I'm unsure of what was altered in the PS2 port of Gunbird 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:02 pm 


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Jaimers posted a video of his Gunbird 2-ALL and included some details of what's inaccurate in the description.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:36 pm 


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Thanks! Some of it's pretty egregious, eh - differences so great that old strategies don't work, etc. Really hope these are simple enough to fix...

Another comparatively minor aesthetic change I haven't seen mentioned, which seems to be a feature in all the Psikyo ports, is that most of the text (for dialogue, character selection, etc) is delivered via an obvious hi-def overlay, even though in-game translations already existed.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 7:37 am 



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After GUNBIRD 2, the next title to be released will be TENGAI (June 22nd):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279370/TENGAI/

---

So it's STRIKERS 1945 II tomorrow:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279 ... RS_1945_II

GUNBIRD 2 on June 10th:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279410/GUNBIRD_2

And TENGAI on June 22nd:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1279370/TENGAI/


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:07 pm 


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Klatrymadon wrote:
Does the Gunbird port use an 'arrange' soundtrack, by the way? The instrumentation (though not the composition) sounds quite different from the PCB to my ears, and, looking at videos of the Switch port, this goes for Gunbird 2 as well, which sounds pretty shrill compared to the DC version. The sound is fantastic here, though!


Yeah, after playing Gunbird 2 (released today) for a bit, it's clear some of the instrumentation is very different from that of the DC version and presumably the PCB. Any idea what this is about?

(It's not just me, is it? This sounds markedly more piercing. Gunbird 2 has one of my favourite soundtracks but this is nails-on-chalkboard stuff. :P )


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:12 pm 


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How accurate is this?
https://steamcommunity.com/id/d3dx9_43/ ... d/1279410/

Google Translate:

Quote:
Obviously not different from an arcade? And what can be seen by the layperson (☆ mark clearly affects play. Confirm with difficulty Normal (5). Later, if you feel like it, check Very Hard (7))
・The bullet does not disappear when the boss is defeated (Is it okay to hit this? Not confirmed)
・1-7 Boss The bullet shot by the first enemy to attack is slightly changed (although it does not affect avoiding it)
・On the second lap, the shape of the 5 way of the medium-sized aircraft's shooting back changed (some bullets are not evenly spaced)
☆Italy: Isn't there two turrets moving on the water during the last road? (I think there will be one left and one right, but of course on lap 2 too!)
☆ 2-6 Blue UFO Zako on the way does not shoot 5way → 5way → 2way → 1way, but 5way → 2way → 1way (one 5way is missing)
☆ 2-6 There is no way bullet aimed at high speed aircraft with the first bullet of the middle boss (eyeball)
・2-6 Medium boss 2 waves are just 1way
☆ 2-6 There is no way bullet for the first high-speed boss in the 2nd form of the boss (from the same way as the first lap, it is possible to avoid the front vertical movement Only),
・2-6 Boss 2nd form The target of the aircraft after the continuous laser firing is 1way instead of 3way
☆ 2-7 The opening turret only shoots 2way (where did the crazy 2way → 4way attack pattern go?)
☆ 2-7 There is no shot back bullet in the bit summoned by the middle boss
・2-7 Medium Boss 2nd Form 2 wave's target is only 3way instead of 5way, firing frequency is low
☆2-7 The 3rd body of the boss's undercarriage only shoots bullets removed from its own machine
☆2-7 Even if the capsule or frog summoned by the final boss is killed, it will not shoot back and issue a bullet

However, there are a lot of mistakes from 2-6 onwards, "Isn't you making a barrage dedicated to the second lap until the attack on that first lap?" Although the bullet velocity itself is higher than the first lap.
It is better to say that the difficulty level is higher than that of the arcade, and that the Italian level is 2-6, 2-7.
As you can see from the play video of PS2 version Gunbird 2, I think that this port is probably based on it because it is very similar to PS2 version.
It's a shame to think that I want you to emulate the arcade version instead of the PS2 version because you have the right.
Even so, I'm not saying that everything should be perfect, but I think it would have been nice to have corrected the difference from the arcade that can be seen by the people who were enthusiastically playing this game at a glance. ..

Good points:
・Because you can select the difficulty level, even people who are not very good at it can clear it.
-The number of continue can be set from game setting to 0 to 99 times, unlimited.
-You can change the key to use when playing with the keyboard (select Launch Configuration Tool at startup). I think the default was ZXAS, but you can change it to another key, such as C or V.
▽ If the diagonal movement becomes ineffective due to simultaneous input restrictions, try assigning another key.
-If you think that it is a port of the PS2 version instead of the port of the arcade version, it can be said that the work is good.


Points of concern:
・There is no stage select (In 2020! In this era when it is installed in many STGs that can be done on PC now. Even though there is Steste mode on the board)
 It is necessary to proceed to the desired side and practice using the storyboard. And since it will be done from the state where the minimum power and rank have dropped, it is not possible to make a pattern for no mistakes.
-The nice thing is that online score tracking is implemented, but it's a mess of all aircraft. There is no ranking for each character.
-Input delay is too dangerous. You can feel it by turning off the Steam overlay or making it full screen.
I think that it will be okay if the stage is easy, but I am really scared when it comes to the second half of the first lap. It is difficult to move at a level where it is scary to move to a narrow gap.
 During the pad operation, it was so difficult that I got hit by the first 1-6 bosses for the second time in a row.
After playing for a few hours, I got a little used to it, but it is still lacking in comfort and I am afraid of some barrages (2-4 The second wave of boss 1st form can be understood by repeatedly moving left and right) ..

Summary:
It may be okay if you just want to finish in one week, but it is a difficult experience to be able to do it in the second week with this operability. There is nothing you cannot do.
If the game content itself is closed after 2-6, it is quite reproducible for the unaided eyes? It seems that it is not bad at all (I do not know the reproducibility of the enemy's detailed appearance timing. Sorry).
Are you writing an arcade supremacy? I thought, but because the arcade version is a big source, I usually want to do something closer to the original.
Who wants to do the PS version of the angry bee over the AC version of the angry bee? No, no.
Noisy guys should buy the board softly! It may be that. In fact, that's the theory (BEST can be said to be used for benefits).
But I managed to delay it. If this can be done, it is possible to divide from negative evaluation to positive evaluation ꧁༼ ◔ᾥ◔༽꧂
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:19 pm 


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Klatrymadon wrote:
Klatrymadon wrote:
Does the Gunbird port use an 'arrange' soundtrack, by the way? The instrumentation (though not the composition) sounds quite different from the PCB to my ears, and, looking at videos of the Switch port, this goes for Gunbird 2 as well, which sounds pretty shrill compared to the DC version. The sound is fantastic here, though!


Yeah, after playing Gunbird 2 (released today) for a bit, it's clear some of the instrumentation is very different from that of the DC version and presumably the PCB. Any idea what this is about?

(It's not just me, is it? This sounds markedly more piercing. Gunbird 2 has one of my favourite soundtracks but this is nails-on-chalkboard stuff. :P )


No, it's definitely not just you. It sounds very different from the Dreamcast version.

The arranged soundtrack also sounded fine for me in GB1, but in GB2 it's really a pointless disimprovement. Too bad, since GB2 has the only Psikyo soundtrack that I enjoyed in the first place, not in this port though. :(

(Though you could probably just replace the OGG files in the Steam directory if you had the soundtrack from the original game.)
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:59 pm 


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That's a great idea, actually. Pity it might be the only way to resolve the problem. That Steam reviewer seems pretty convinced it's based on the PS2 version and that the extensive differences are unlikely to be fixed...


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