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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:53 pm 


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Gunbird 1 also seems to be based on the PS2 version (PS1 and Saturn have the correct palette for loop 2, but PS2 doesn't) and I wouldn't be surprised if the others were too.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:23 pm 


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I've played quite a bit of Sengoku Ace lately, and its Steam port is also definitely based on the PS2 version (played it on PS2 before). Today I've tried a few credits in MAME and noticed some differences:

  • enemies fire bullets more frequently in Arcade version
  • projectiles are a bit faster in Arcade version

Yet the PS2/Steam ports are overall harder for my taste because of these flaws:

  • Projectiles are often aimed in a weirder and more imprecise way at (or away from) you in the port. It seems less predictable. In the Arcade version I dodged a few patterns first try which I've barely ever done in the ports (for example 1-6 boss). Pillar boss is also much better routable in Arcade version.
  • Rank drops way more considerably in Arcade version after a death. Port doesn't reduce the rank much.
  • In the port you can't hit enemies or boss parts which are ANYWAY near the top of the screen. Some boss fights drag on quite a bit because you can't damage them for prolonged periods. Speedkilling (for example the water level boss parts or all those tank enemies) is also not possible on the ports for the exact same reason.

I always wondered why the game design feels so cheap in that last aspect, but never knew that it's only a problem of the ports and that the Arcade version is fine. Well...

Good thing in the ports is the eliminated slowdown (appearing island in 1-4 and floor falling down in 1-6).

I still generally like the fact of Psikyo games coming to Steam, but still I wish that their source material was better. :(
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:36 am 


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this is weird. it seems like it would actually take MORE effort to port the PS2 versions than it would to just use the arcade ROMs


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:52 am 


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How the heck do ports end up with just as much or MORE input lag than emulations?


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:31 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
'Cause they need to deal with the usual OS/hardware layers, I guess. An emulation doesn't have more latency per se.



Quote:
this is weird. it seems like it would actually take MORE effort to port the PS2 versions than it would to just use the arcade ROMs


Even weirder when you remember that the PS2 versions weren't by Psikyo, but by Taito (and Atlus).



Battletoad wrote:
Yet the PS2/Steam ports are overall harder for my taste because of these flaws:

  • Projectiles are often aimed in a weirder and more imprecise way at (or away from) you in the port. It seems less predictable. In the Arcade version I dodged a few patterns first try which I've barely ever done in the ports (for example 1-6 boss). Pillar boss is also much better routable in Arcade version.
  • Rank drops way more considerably in Arcade version after a death. Port doesn't reduce the rank much.
  • In the port you can't hit enemies or boss parts which are ANYWAY near the top of the screen. Some boss fights drag on quite a bit because you can't damage them for prolonged periods. Speedkilling (for example the water level boss parts or all those tank enemies) is also not possible on the ports for the exact same reason.


And all this time believing that the PS2 version was using emulation in some degree. Didn't know there were so many differentiations! Is that the standard for the rest of Taito's versions of the Psikyo titles for the PS2?


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:46 pm 


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AZA wrote:
this is weird. it seems like it would actually take MORE effort to port the PS2 versions than it would to just use the arcade ROMs

This is not the case, it's almost always easier to port a port than to create a new emulation-based port.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:42 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
This is not the case, it's almost always easier to port a port than to create a new emulation-based port.


Sadly, this seems to have been the story of Strikers 1945 II ports, ever since the PS2 comp recycled the PS1 port. :| The Greatest Generation (aka M2 & Gotch) would never behave so shitbirdly. :evil:
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:54 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
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With the PS1-to-PS2 port makes sense in a dirty way because it doesn't need any extra work, but this PS2-to-Switch-to-Windows story with different developers and publishers involved is kind of nuts, actually.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:32 pm 


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Problem is some of the ports to PS2 actually messed up things that were done right in previous ports (like the second loop of Gunbird 1).


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:51 pm 


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Great news! I would love to see Dragon Blaze on Steam.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:08 am 



Joined: 11 Oct 2013
Posts: 47
You know when you think about how since the beginning of home consoles, a core part of it had been about bringing the arcade experience home. It's absurd that after 40 years or so of technological advances and the hobby becoming interesting to the general masses, that lazy and sub par arcade ports still exist. I guess spending the time to do it from scratch is not profitable like the next iteration of Assassin's Creed is or whatever. Sorry for complaining, I admit I don't know anything about what really goes into it


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:53 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
So long as enough people keep buying subpar ports like these, there's no really need for them to improve (in particular when doing it well would require so much effort in comparison), I don't think there's much more to it. If even in a forum like this there're so many people reporting their purchases, it's not hard to understand that these releases are doing well for them and their investment.


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:36 pm 


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Tengai is out on Steam now. I guess the question is (since I don't have it), what were the main differences from the PCB in the PS2 port? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:01 pm 



Joined: 03 Jun 2020
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Am I assuming correctly that neither of the Psikyo Steam ports offer save/load states or level selects?


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:24 pm 


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Anyone knows what today update of Strikers 1945 brought?
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:37 pm 


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miwa wrote:
Am I assuming correctly that neither of the Psikyo Steam ports offer save/load states or level selects?


That's right.
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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:13 am 



Joined: 03 Jun 2020
Posts: 6
Battletoad wrote:
miwa wrote:
Am I assuming correctly that neither of the Psikyo Steam ports offer save/load states or level selects?


That's right.


Too bad, I would've gladly bought several titles again if they offered save states...


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 Post subject: Re: Psikyo games coming to Steam
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:12 am 



Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 175
Location: Bournemouth
No save states seems a ridiculous omission in this day and age. What a bizarre decision.


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