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 Post subject: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:39 am 



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People speculated for a while, but it's official now:

Image

Link on the site takes you to a broken page for now, but we can't be too far off from details. Probably.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:46 am 


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Inbachi making a comeback.

And we’re used to lag on SDOJ already!
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:43 am 


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God I hate this stupid platform.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:09 am 



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Posts: 16
kid aphex wrote:
God I hate seeing shmups actually get released for arcades


fixed


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:14 am 


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Huh. Interesting that it’s “licensed by and developed in cooperation” with Cave rather than developed by Cave themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:18 am 


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Well, there goes my ̶k̶n̶i̶g̶h̶t̶h̶o̶o̶d̶ pc port.

It breaks my heart to think that the exa lads might have gotten to cave just in time and convinced them to imprison this windows version in their walled garden - https://clips.twitch.tv/ExpensiveWildStarDAESuppy


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:45 pm 


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does this mean soj will finally be added to mame?
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:37 pm 


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clippa wrote:
Well, there goes my ̶k̶n̶i̶g̶h̶t̶h̶o̶o̶d̶ pc port.

It breaks my heart to think that the exa lads might have gotten to cave just in time and convinced them to imprison this windows version in their walled garden - https://clips.twitch.tv/ExpensiveWildStarDAESuppy

I clipped that 2 years ago? Time flies.

Anyways, can't play this by any means so good for those who can. Imma just stick to Qute shmups for all of 2020.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:45 pm 


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I thought this would be the title to push me over the edge but it’s not working.

If I did “cave” I think I’d want GP to order it and forward it on. But not without exchanging some tantalizing e-mails first.

I might just skip the game and go straight to the e-mails.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:08 pm 


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Connor wrote:
kid aphex wrote:
God I hate seeing shmups actually get released for arcades


fixed


Why should, for example, me (and huge number of people in different situation, well), like it, though?

- we didn't have arcades in my country more or less since late 90s
- and even those that we have in random places like cinemas or kid amusment parks, never shmups among them (instead, u are lucky if tekken or house of dead, but often some banana cream gacha or whatever)
- travelling to countries where arcades live and with shmups is serious shit even normally, and impossibru now in current world situation

what gives?

:?:

edit:

Still, best wishes to EXA and co., though. They do what they can in attempts to bring a bit more life in arcades. It's just... All of that don't really exist/available for most players, sadly.

edit 2:

Perhaps they need do make new arrange OST for exa version? So we can at least buy the music...
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Last edited by qmish on Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:09 pm 


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kid aphex wrote:
God I hate this stupid platform.


I'm indifferent. But I absolutely don't get hype for these announcements. First word of a DoDonPachi port for years and it's not for a home platform. So that's a bit of a bummer for me.
All I want is more heavy hitter Cave titles on PC and Switch. Particularly this damn series.

EDIT: Should specify a DDP port that isn't DFK because they seem to LOVE that one. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:14 pm 


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As for PC, not sure who gave up - Cave or Degica. From Degica i mostly see VNs and RPGs now, did they pause their holy crusade of PC shmup renessaince ? :|
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:54 pm 



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
Posts: 170
KAI wrote:
does this mean soj will finally be added to mame?


It's just a matter of weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:15 am 


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SDOJ hasn't been added to MAME because no one has donated their board to dump it. How is this going to change anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:59 am 


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Fingers crossed for changed color palette in the levels.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:18 am 



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Posts: 170
DoomsDave wrote:
SDOJ hasn't been added to MAME because no one has donated their board to dump it. How is this going to change anything?


Sdoj has been dumped since many years ago. This was confirmed by Haze, one of the original coders involved in cv1000 emulation.
Why was it kept (and still is) private for so long? Word is, it's because this one dump will hurt Cave so badly that they'll go bankrupt for many generations to come.

Another example, MetalliC (the amazing original coder that reverse-engineered the sh3 board) compiled a perfectly working android Sh3 emulator since 2012, also kept private to this day. Why? You tell me.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:48 am 


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el_rika wrote:
DoomsDave wrote:
SDOJ hasn't been added to MAME because no one has donated their board to dump it. How is this going to change anything?


Sdoj has been dumped since many years ago. This was confirmed by Haze, one of the original coders involved in cv1000 emulation.
Why was it kept (and still is) private for so long? Word is, it's because this one dump will hurt Cave so badly that they'll go bankrupt for many generations to come.



40 (I mean, in Tokyo or smth, not very many arcades alive even there?) sdoj units in arcades brings cave more money than their failed mobile gacha games, and yet they don't return to making what can keep them afloat? Hmmmm
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:22 pm 



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qmish wrote:
As for PC, not sure who gave up - Cave or Degica. From Degica i mostly see VNs and RPGs now, did they pause their holy crusade of PC shmup renessaince ? :|


Both. Cave basically wrapped up that side of the business, and it can't be easy for any third party to make inroads:

No easy contact with devs, owner is not so interested in it, hardest fans to please, casuals who don't necessarily appreciate the craft that goes into arcade action games, and an extremely niche fan base...

...and who knows what cave wanted for home rights. It could be that arcade only rights were hell of a lot cheaper which was the only way that exa got an in.... And it could be limited to that for that reason.... Or maybe there's a future deal to be done... Who knows.

Taking on any shmup is something of a passion project, more so when it is not your own work, and there have always been notoriously wierd understandings and license arrangements for such games whereby yet another party has some kind of stake... So you can't even sink an amount of work for one game with the hope you can use that investment on x others (by the same dev/platform/genre) if those others are tied up by other deals...

Compare that to say neo geo porting, or something, where it might have it's challenges but the lay of the ground is so much simpler and of a standard, then you can see it really has to be something you really want to do...

..Which imho is really why m2 currently occupies a top spot in my regard and expectation, since they have such a useful base of experience, access and passion for both the more 'standard' titles as well as the more niche.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:06 pm 


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Connor wrote:
kid aphex wrote:
God I hate seeing shmups actually get released for arcades


fixed


Feels more like a funeral than a release - put in the coffin of a super-niche arcade system and hidden from 90% of the their fans.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:29 pm 


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el_rika wrote:
DoomsDave wrote:
SDOJ hasn't been added to MAME because no one has donated their board to dump it. How is this going to change anything?


Sdoj has been dumped since many years ago. This was confirmed by Haze, one of the original coders involved in cv1000 emulation.
Why was it kept (and still is) private for so long? Word is, it's because this one dump will hurt Cave so badly that they'll go bankrupt for many generations to come.

Another example, MetalliC (the amazing original coder that reverse-engineered the sh3 board) compiled a perfectly working android Sh3 emulator since 2012, also kept private to this day. Why? You tell me.

Where are you getting this information?


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:07 pm 



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
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Haze of Mame posted his educated opinion on the matter some time ago. It is highly unlikely, almost impossible, for this last ever Cave game to "not" be dumped.
At least one pcb is/was owned by a person affiliated with mame/emulation. If Haze has more input, he will share it with us, cose he's a terrific guy.

(in the unlikely case you are also interested in the 2nd example, MetalliC posted a few videos back then, of his Cave3rd android emulator).


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:18 am 


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I'd say not to get your hopes up. From what I understand, dumping is a risky process that involves the possibility of a game ceasing to function and/or give an invalid dump. It's not out of the question for such an expensive and sought-after game to not have a dump just because someone affiliated with MAME has a PCB.

There's also the fact that the game has been out of print for years, so I don't follow how it could hurt Cave by having it added. There's not much need to wait around for it to get ported to MAME with borked slowdown, anyway, as the 360 port runs fine in Xenia already.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:05 am 



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I just hopes this somehow (I don't know how, but somehow) generates enough interest to get Cave to consider doing more ports (or partnering with people interested in doing ports for them)


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:29 am 


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If nothing else, this would be my reason to seek out an EXA cab; who knows how many there are where I live (Illinois). I've always been curious of the game. Hopefully trap and co. can add a cool mode or hack to the game. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:40 am 


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Cave games in my area? Hahaha. Not since Akai Katana for the 360.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:25 am 


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EmperorIng wrote:
If nothing else, this would be my reason to seek out an EXA cab; who knows how many there are where I live (Illinois).

I'm curious how many of the things even exist outside of Japan.
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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:49 am 


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Gus wrote:
the 360 port runs fine in Xenia already.


What what what?!
Last I tried I just got a black screen with sdoj.
That's fantastic news! Can I ask which version you're using, Gus?

edit: Found which version to get in the comments of a youtube vid. I'm assuming it's OK to post for other folk? It's easy to find anyway, just search sai xenia and it'll come up, from user "mldxp"


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:26 am 


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Gus wrote:
such an expensive and sought-after game

There's also the fact that the game has been out of print for years


I was curious so I just looked into it and *damn*. I'm so glad I preordered this game when I did back in the day and still have my copy. I wasn't expecting it to be so rare and pricey today.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:01 pm 



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
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Gus wrote:
.
There's also the fact that the game has been out of print for years, so I don't follow how it could hurt Cave by having it added. There's not much need to wait around for it to get ported to MAME with borked slowdown, anyway, as the 360 port runs fine in Xenia already.


That's my opinion as well. If anyone really has the dump, as assumed by old contributors, releasing it publicly wouldn't harm Cave in any way. I can't say it could help them, but who knows how the awareness would spike.

Also, the mythical "mame slowdown is bad" is just that, an exagerration. All cv1000 games function very very close to pcb speeds, with the correct combination of CPU underclock and blitter delay %. Except for some slighty choppy menus, where the pcb keeps the cpu clock high due to an unemulated micro code that puts some flags on performance, it's an experience that could be considered "close".
I've been testing the games for almost an year now and i have pretty good numbers for most games. Some rely more on CPU, some on blitter, but overall the results are excelent :wink:

(sorry for the off-topic)


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 Post subject: Re: Dodonpachi Saidaioujou EXA Label
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:23 pm 


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Gus wrote:
I'd say not to get your hopes up. From what I understand, dumping is a risky process that involves the possibility of a game ceasing to function and/or give an invalid dump. It's not out of the question for such an expensive and sought-after game to not have a dump just because someone affiliated with MAME has a PCB.

There's also the fact that the game has been out of print for years, so I don't follow how it could hurt Cave by having it added. There's not much need to wait around for it to get ported to MAME with borked slowdown, anyway, as the 360 port runs fine in Xenia already.


Take this with a *HUGE* grain of salt because I'm going from memory and haven't done research:

Shortly after the MAME team published che CV1K driver, Cave reached out to them asking to remove the driver because it was damaging the company.
MAME decided to remove it while they were still talking about this with Cave.
At the end, and here's where I need to check if I remember correctly, they got to an agreement where they could put the CV1k driver back but they had to wait 10 years (or something like that) to make each specific game's implementation available so that the game would run in MAME.
This is exactly what happened with Akai Katana.

All the games are already correctly dumped, they are just waiting to abide by the decision taken with Cave.


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