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 Post subject: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:33 pm 


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So I recently got myself a Sega Saturn and (after a lot of running back and forth from the hardware store) managed to flash Pseudo Saturn Kai onto an action replay cart, so I've been trying out various saturn games. First game I tried out was Batsugun, as I've never actually played it before and from what I heard it's Toaplan's swan song and the ur-example of bullet hell (either that or Recca).

So the game itself. Immediately right off the bat, clouds of fast moving bullets, a fucking insane blitzkrieg. The pace is blisteringly fast. Scoring system is in line with the other toaplan games, very simple to understand but brutally punishing. In particular during the cloud stage the way enemy formations jump in reminds me of Cho Ren Sha 68k, always a very good thing! Soundtrack is rocking too, although it's apparently an arrange of the arcade version?

I might go for the 1cc, although I don't know whether that's an insurmountable task or not.

Anyway, what do you guys think of the game? Of my first impressions?
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:26 pm 


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Definitely not insurmountable. I put a bit into Batsugun Special a few years ago (when I picked up the Saturn version) and made the first loop clear, regular Batsugun is a bit harder but not oppressively so (no idea why I didn't stick it out really). You can choose between the arcade or arranged soundtrack on the Saturn, but I found arrange to be a bit weak - not sure if it defaults to arrange if you pick Batsugun Special.

Looks great, sounds great, plays great. Stage 2 boss is pretty brutal for something so early in the game, no matter what I always panic bomb at leaat once!


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:01 pm 



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This game is so good. A little tricky in spots but nothing too challenging. Batsugun Special is easier if you want to just do a one loop clear.

I think its up there with the best of CAVE's stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:20 pm 



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You can actually mix match the audio ie arrange or normal with either version in the options menue.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:26 pm 


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I had the same first impression as you hermit.

Be aware that the SS version cuts off a rather large part of the screen if you play it in Yoko mode. Use Tate and game becomes way easier.
As for the Special version, a clear of the first loop is on the easy side, but real players will tell you that 1CC of the Special Version is actually to clear it until it stops looping, suicide bullets in the way.

I could never 1CC the Normal version, partly due to my bad gameplay, partly due to the cut off screen in Yoko mode (I cannot rotate my TV).

Oh, and Madzella ? Until you become a Grandmaster at the game, bomb the first part no matter what.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:50 pm 


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Honestly I use a minimum of two bombs on Madzella alone. Usually one to take out some turrets in the opening salvo, and one when I inevitably get pinned by her bullet streams as she's moving around. It's not like the game lacks for bombs... I've cleared Special's first loop so I at least don't think you need the two extra bombs -that- much unless you really want the highest end-of-stage bonus (at least I think there is one for bombs????).

There's definitely a learning curve, but if you use Beltiana (or Jeeno? 2P B in any case) you should have enough power to take care of a lot of the problems thrown your way.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:58 am 


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Very doable 1cc, just stick with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 am 


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TransatlanticFoe wrote:
Definitely not insurmountable. I put a bit into Batsugun Special a few years ago (when I picked up the Saturn version) and made the first loop clear, regular Batsugun is a bit harder but not oppressively so (no idea why I didn't stick it out really). You can choose between the arcade or arranged soundtrack on the Saturn, but I found arrange to be a bit weak - not sure if it defaults to arrange if you pick Batsugun Special.

Looks great, sounds great, plays great. Stage 2 boss is pretty brutal for something so early in the game, no matter what I always panic bomb at leaat once!


Haven't played the game in years after getting rid of my Saturn stuff, but god that boss..... I remember coming pretty close to the 1CC and still finding new ways to mess that up every game.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:43 am 



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I've seen Batsugun Special recommended as a good shmup for beginners, and I agree with that assessment. It was my first arcade 1-ALL, and the only walls I remember having with it were Madzella and Jupiter. What specific parts make you feel the 1cc is insurmountable? I have vague memories of Stage 4 being a bit difficult as well, but playing until I could remember where and when enemies would spawn helped tremendously.

Never found the pace to be particularly fast, but I think I get what you mean. The bullet speeds feel quite comfy to me though.

I find Madzella's first phase to be tense but not that difficult. On the other hand, I never could get its second phase down sans bombs. I think staying close to it vertically helps create gaps in its bullet streams..?

Of course, I'm talking about Special in all of the above. Regular didn't feel all that different when I tried it, but I have yet to sit down and get the 1cc of that. I really should, though.

guigui wrote:
Be aware that the SS version cuts off a rather large part of the screen if you play it in Yoko mode. Use Tate and game becomes way easier.


Are there any other differences between the Saturn version and regular ol' arcade Batsugun?


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:03 am 



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Batsugun Special is significantly easier than normal, at least if you are just trying for a 1-ALL. The hitbox is smaller, you also get a shield, and better bombs. A 2-ALL of special is probably similar in difficulty to clearing normal.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:35 am 



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pegboy wrote:
Batsugun Special is significantly easier than normal, at least if you are just trying for a 1-ALL. The hitbox is smaller, you also get a shield, and better bombs.


Thanks for the reply, but I was asking about the Saturn version, not Special :wink: I assume the Saturn port is based on regular Batsugun rather than Special..?

Also, the game's Wikipedia page claims the port lacks slowdown that's present in some parts of the arcade original, which might be why cave hermit found the bullets to be fast.

pegboy wrote:
A 2-ALL of special is probably similar in difficulty to clearing normal.


Interesting comparison. Makes me want to go back and nab that 1cc of normal even more than I already do...


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:47 am 



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Never played the Saturn ports but I was under the impression they were close to the arcade. Maybe the ports do lack slowdown and make them a bit harder, although I don't really remember much if any slowdown in normal while playing on MAME.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:02 am 



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pegboy wrote:
Maybe the ports do lack slowdown and make them a bit harder, although I don't really remember much if any slowdown in normal while playing on MAME.


Thinking back to my (admittedly limited) experiences with normal and Special on MAME, I do not remember any slowdown either. The citations for that particular claim on Wikipedia are various issues of Gamest, which I guess must amount to something lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:05 pm 


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I love this game its not to hard, the music is great if you win a stage.
I cant wait for PS4 version, saturn dont look nice on modern TVs.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:38 pm 


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floralcateyes wrote:
Thanks for the reply, but I was asking about the Saturn version, not Special :wink: I assume the Saturn port is based on regular Batsugun rather than Special..?


The Saturn conversion includes both revisions. :smile:
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:52 pm 


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Great topic!

Just compared these two videos in regards to any differences in slowdown:

Batsugun Special Arcade PCB Gameplay
Batsugun [Special] (Sega Saturn)

Both are apparently recorded off of real hardware, and when synchronized at the beginning of stages, both arrive at the bosses at pretty much (exactly?) the same time.
Stages 1 and 2 even both use Jeeno, maybe the Saturn video being in yoko ruins the comparison however, I'm not sure.

Do we have any sort of robust clues as to what the differences amount to? I've always read about a slowdown difference here and there, but never knew any details, so that would be interesting to learn more about for sure...


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:03 pm 


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Strictly offhand (it's been forever!), but I recall the Saturn's reduced slowdown being notable during the Jupiter tank milking.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:24 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:06 am 


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cave hermit wrote:
I might go for the 1cc, although I don't know whether that's an insurmountable task or not.
Anyway, what do you guys think of the game? Of my first impressions?

I recommend you not only clear Batsugun but also try to get a decent score.
It's really fun and great for all skill levels.

My next goal is to get 10million with type-A and 20million+ with type-B.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:04 pm 


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You won't regret owning a Saturn. It's perhaps the best machien overall for Shmups.

batsugun is a Shmup that I've hardly spent any time with. I shall have to find the time to play it. Latetly been playing Mars-Matrix and garegga.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:37 pm 


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As soon as I read the thread title, this is what came to mind:
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Back on topic: I suck at Batsugun. Hoping the new M2 agreement brings us a Batsugun port with their touches and features, so I could legally play it for less than a mint, and have some ability to practice it more specifically.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:43 am 



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BIL wrote:
The Saturn conversion includes both revisions. :smile:


Bit surprised to hear this, but that is very, very cool. I don't really know anything about the Saturn's arcade ports as I was never really interested in the machine until I started getting into shmups. But the more I read about it, the more it sounds like a real powerhouse for enjoying the genre at home.

FRO wrote:
Back on topic: I suck at Batsugun. Hoping the new M2 agreement brings us a Batsugun port with their touches and features, so I could legally play it for less than a mint, and have some ability to practice it more specifically.


Not familiar with M2 and their "touches and features" either, but I am curious about what they might be able to bring to Batsugun outside of more traditional practice modes. I mean, various graphs and counters can be useful in a game like Garegga where you have a load of things to keep track of. Maybe something similar could be used for Batsugun's level up system? Or a practice mode with reminders about the spawning locations of pigs lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:10 am 


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Batsugun was my first ever 1cc. Took me a few weeks to get the final boss patterns down but it wasn’t too difficult. You can do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:33 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Strictly offhand (it's been forever!), but I recall the Saturn's reduced slowdown being notable during the Jupiter tank milking.

Thanks! It's hard to find Saturn footage that does this, but after more examination it appears as though slowdown differences can indeed surface at pretty much any point in time provided there are enough bullets on screen.

It's notable e.g. in Stage 4 while the second Madzella-like enemy is on screen (PCB, Saturn).

(and from that it pretty much follows that the higher the loop/difficulty setting, the stronger the impact)


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:50 am 


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I wish that once you clear 1 loop of Special it still gives you ending and credits roll.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:01 pm 


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copy-paster: we're in a lucky position, as there's reason to hope for things like these to get implemented soon-ish by M2!

A loop select for the special version (start a loop X/only play loop X) would certainly be neat. On the same note, I'd appreciate being able to choose between PCB and Saturn slowdown behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:34 pm 


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Worst Toaplan game, worst Ikeda game. Nothing about its design makes any sense. Grind Stormer is far better in nearly every way, Donpachi is far better in nearly every way, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:18 am 



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heli wrote:
I love this game its not to hard, the music is great if you win a stage.
I cant wait for PS4 version, saturn dont look nice on modern TVs.


I am SO pumped for the PS4 version! For years Ive been floating on getting the Saturn version of this and Battle Garegga but was too cheap to pay that kind of money for either.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:23 am 



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MintyTheCat wrote:
You won't regret owning a Saturn. It's perhaps the best machien overall for Shmups.

batsugun is a Shmup that I've hardly spent any time with. I shall have to find the time to play it. Latetly been playing Mars-Matrix and garegga.


I agree with you on Saturn being great. ( I own one ) Only problem is that Saturn shmups are very expensive. At least if you want to own a actual Saturn copy. Thankfully , we are getting some of them on PS4 that are even better than the Saturn ports.


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 Post subject: Re: Batsugun thread? Batsugun thread.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:27 am 



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I really have fallen in love with this game its just the pcb is so freakin rare and expensive...

only found 1 source and with customs i would pay like 1800 US$ :|

Is this game really that much worth nowadays?
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