*Xenocide Updates*

[The Coop]

Okay, updated up to this point. Granada indeed removed (arena shooter).

Pardon my French, but wtf?

[Turrican]

Pardon my French, but wtf?

Granada is an arena shooter, the way Alien Breed, Alien Syndrome, Smash TV, Chaos Engine, and to an extent Gauntlet are. Don't take it the wrong way, I love these games centered on shooting, I just don't think they belong to the subgenre of shmups.

In these games, the emphasis is not only on shooting, but also on scenery (you have to deal with a maze-like background), puzzle-solving (that certain gate won't open unless you kill that certain enemy; backtracking involved), and the idea of a "confined space".

Games like Time Pilot or Thunderforce II are broadly the same, but at least they grant the impression of movement by including forced scrolling and the inability to stop.

I am aware that moderators allowed arena shooters in-topic a while ago, but until further news follows the old rules.

[The Coop]

Pardon my French, but wtf?

Granada is an arena shooter, the way Alien Breed, Alien Syndrome, Smash TV, Chaos Engine, and to an extent Gauntlet are. Don't take it the wrong way, I love these games centered on shooting, I just don't think they belong to the subgenre of shmups.

In these games, the emphasis is not only on shooting, but also on scenery (you have to deal with a maze-like background), puzzle-solving (that certain gate won't open unless you kill that certain enemy; backtracking involved), and the idea of a "confined space".

Games like Time Pilot or Thunderforce II are broadly the same, but at least they grant the impression of movement by including forced scrolling and the inability to stop.

I am aware that moderators allowed arena shooters in-topic a while ago, but until further news follows the old rules.

Well, considering it's on the list back on shmups.com (along with other arena shmups), and has been for a long time, doesn't it seem a bit late to be taking it away and deciding it doesn't belong? I mean, I know the whole "auto/forced scroll" thing is clung to in some arguments here like a Catholic priest clings to an altar boy, but taking out the likes of Granada and Sinistar just because you can stop makes little sense to me... especially when you factor in how auto scrolling seems to be inconsequential when the subject of not including 3D shmups like Galaxy Force II and Star Fox comes around.

[Turrican]

Well, considering it's on the list back on shmups.com (along with other arena shmups), and has been for a long time, doesn't it seem a bit late to be taking it away and deciding it doesn't belong?

Before Malc redesigned the site, there was a section for borderliners reviews. When the actual site was created, that section was disbanded and all the reviews in there were just included in the respective consoles. Now don't ask me if Granada was indeed in the borderliners section back then: it's entirely possibile that it wasn't. The criteria has been fluid for years. Even Contra Hard Corps and Cybernator are reviewed there, for example.

I mean, I know the whole "auto/forced scroll" thing is clung to in some arguments here like a Catholic priest clings to an altar boy, but taking out the likes of Granada and Sinistar just because you can stop makes little sense to me...

I'm stressing out that taking them out does not imply considering them "unworthy" or the likes. My nickname is Turrican, for chrissake - I'm perfectly aware that there are lots of games which offer a great degree of shooting action, withouth necessarily being shmups. shmup isn't a sort of VIP club where "only the best are allowed": quite the contrary, it's a subgenre which has evolved with rules so firm that it often goes stale.

And please, don't compare my arguments to religious dogma - it hurts me. As soon as I red your previous post, the first thing I did before replying was to fire up Granada in my Genesis plus, despite knowing well the game, to play again the first stage. It's an arena shooter through and through: I can backtrack my steps, take cover in safe places, miss or find hidden portions of the maze... I think these characteristics have enough dignity to talk of another branch of the shooting game.

auto scrolling seems to be inconsequential when the subject of not including 3D shmups like Galaxy Force II and Star Fox comes around.

Right, 3D shooters have their own characteristics to deal with.

P.S. I'm willing to reply to you via PM or continue the discussion in another thread. (this might do: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=14418).

[ubersaurus]

I'll give you some classic system shooters for the list:

Atari 2600:
Asteroids(Atari)
Turmoil
Plague Attack(Activision)
Demon Attack(Imagic)
Phoenix(Atari)
Thrust(Homebrew)
Vault Assault(Homebrew)
Space War(Atari)
Centipede(Atari)
Millipede(Atari)
Communist Mutants from Outer Space(Starpath)
Suicide Mission(Starpath)
Astroblast(M-Network)
Deadly Duck
GORF
Gyruss(Parker Bros.)
Mega Force
M.A.D.
Moonsweeper(Imagic)
Seaquest(Activision)
Space Jockey
Spacechase
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back(Parker Bros.)
Star Wars: Death Star Battle(Parker Bros.)
Super Cobra
Time Pilot
Worm War 1
Yars Revenge(Atari)
Zaxxon
Stampede(Activision)
Allia Quest(Homebrew)
Conquest of Mars(Homebrew)
INV+(Homebrew)
Oystron(Homebrew)
Phantom II(Homebrew)
Rainbow Invaders(Homebrew)
Space Battle(Homebrew)
Space Instigators(Homebrew)

Atari 5200
Defender(Atari)
Space Invaders(Atari)
River Raid(Activision)
Centipede(Atari)
Choplifter
Galaxian(Atari)
Zaxxon
Gyruss
Beamrider(Activision)

Atari 7800
Robotron 2084(Atari)
Asteroids(Atari)
Planet Smashers(Atari)
Food Fight(Atari)
Centipede(Atari)
Galaga(Atari)
Choplifter(Atari)

Colecovision:
Space Invaders Collection(Homebrew)
Time Pilot
Centipede(Atarisoft)
Cosmic Avenger
Space Fury
Nova Blast
Front Line
Zaxxon
Beamrider(Activision)
Astro Invader(Homebrew)
Cosmo Fighter 2(Homebrew)
Cosmo Fighter 3(Homebrew)

Intellivision:
Demon Attack(Imagic)
Space Armada(Mattel)
Astrosmash(Mattel)
Space Hawk(Mattel)
Buzz Bombers(Mattel)
Mission X(Mattel)
Vectron(Mattel)
Stampede(Activision)
Beamrider(Activision)
River Raid(Activision)
Centipede(Atarisoft)

Odyssey 2:
Alien Invaders Plus(Magnavox)
Attack of the Timelord(Magnavox)
Kill the Attacking Aliens(Homebrew)
Demon Attack(Imagic)
UFO (Magnavox)

Also you don't need Defender 2 and Stargate on the 2600 list...both are the same game, just with different titles.

[The Coop]

And please, don't compare my arguments to religious dogma - it hurts me.

It was a humor-laced analogy, Turrican, not serious personal commentary. If you continue to take such things in a similar manner, I'll be forced to break out Universal Soldier and make you play through it.




By the way, would Moon Patrol count? It's been ported to high hell over the years, and I noticed it wasn't on ubersaurus' list. It hit the Atari 2600, Atari 800, MSX, Atari 5200, and the Commodore 64 among others.

[Shatterhand]

No, Moon Patrol don't qualify. Or at least it didn't last time I asked someone

[Turrican]

And please, don't compare my arguments to religious dogma - it hurts me.

It was a humor-laced analogy, Turrican, not serious personal commentary. If you continue to take such things in a similar manner, I'll be forced to break out Universal Soldier and make you play through it.

Haha... The scary part is, I played it and I even liked it, sort of. I guess those few genes of Turrican it had still overcame the rest in my eyes. ^_^

[Dandy J]

And please, don't compare my arguments to religious dogma - it hurts me.

your posting is like an angels rectum

[TKGB_Mental_Gear]

Dont know if you were done with this topic but I found another game though I dont know if it is a shmup. It's in the style of Defender but it could be. I'll let you decide:

Star Fox (Mythico Inc., 1983) for the Atari2600.

[mainpatr1]

Add Sky Robo(Nichibutsu, Arcade)

[ubersaurus]

For Vectrex, you can add the following:
Minestorm
Minestorm 2
3D Minestorm
Star Castle
Bedlam
Fortress of Narzod
Rip Off
Scramble
Solar Quest
Space Wars
Web Wars
Cosmic Chasm

[Master O]

For arcades, you can add the following:

Space Invaders, Part II (a.k.a. Space Invaders DX)

Return of the Invaders

Space Invaders Deluxe (not the same as DX)

Space Invaders '95: Attack of Lunar Loonies (a.k.a Akkanvader in Japan)

Although they are basically the same game, they are technically separate titles. Taito seemed content with re-releasing this game 5 times in arcades for over a decade and a half.

[rolins]

Looking back on the list all these can be removed b/c they don't meet the definition of a shmup or I can't find enough information to confirm them.

MSX:
Frontline (Taito)
Marine Battle (Ascii)
Mars II (Nagi-P Soft)
Moon Patrol (Dempa)
Zaider - Battle of Peguss (Cosmos Computer)
Ultraman (Bandai)

NEC PC88:
Thunderforce (Techno Soft)
Thunderforce SR (Techno Soft)
Formation Z (Nihon Dexter)
Fire Hawk (Game Arts)
Thexder (Game Arts)
Herzog (Techno Soft)
Z Gundam (Bandai)
Gamma 5 (Kure Software Koubou)
Vaxol

NEC PC98:
Hell Ogre (Ziggo Watt)
Thexder (Game Arts)
Disaster (K2 Studio)
Metal Fork (Kuni-soft)
Felis (Cocktail Soft)
Carax '92 (Bio 100%)
BK Turb (Bio 100%)
eForth (Bio 100%)
Goggle-2 (Bio 100%)
Goggle-3: Super Spartan (Bio 100%)
Super Depth (Bio 100%)
Super Depth 2 Finalty (Bio 100%)
Camal-Zoo (Bio 100%)
Twins (Bio 100%)
Twins 2 (Bio 100%)
Weapons Free (ABA)
Fangs Out 2 (ABA)[/b]

[Turrican]

Looking back on the list all these can be removed b/c they don't meet the definition of a shmup or I can't find enough information to confirm them.

Thank you, your input is greatly appreciated, as always. I'll remove them.

Although I'm on keeping Thunderforce in if, like TF2, it has forced scrolling (i.e. if you can't stop your vehicle, as you could brake in Asteroids).

[The Coop]

Thunder Force has auto scrolling, and plays like the top view stages of Thunder Force II. I've played the Sharp X1 version and the PC-88 version via emulation.


Also, Kolibri for the 32X could use a little adding. It may be animals and insects, but it's fitting to be sure.

[Turrican]

That's cool - I've seen TF in motion finally (youtube does wonders) and it definitely belongs to the genre.

Kolibri is listed and reviewed at http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy.com ... files.html - the intent of this thread is to list all the shmups which aren't there.

[Limbrooke]

That's cool - I've seen TF in motion finally (youtube does wonders) and it definitely belongs to the genre.

Sorry to be off-topic but I couldn't find shit on TF1 on youtube. All I dug up was this 12 minute piece on nico video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm906217

[The Coop]

Kolibri is listed and reviewed at http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy.com ... files.html - the intent of this thread is to list all the shmups which aren't there.

Ah shit. The Xenofiles page wouldn't load when I checked, so I took a chance that it wasn't there. My bad.

[Turrican]

Sorry to be off-topic but I couldn't find shit on TF1 on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72a-rvyytSY

[A Black Falcon]

How about Space Invaders for the Nintendo 64? It's a version of the PSX/PC title of the same name. I don't see that listed anywhere here, oddly enough...]

Also, the Xenocide Files page lists Robotron 64's title as just Robotron, not Robotron 64, if that matters. It's not really a shmup though of course, so it probably shouldn't be there at all... I notice that the Playstation version of the game, Robotron X, isn't in the PSX list.

[oli_lar]

I have a list of the 100+ shooters on the X68000. I've played all but a small handful of them that I couldn't find dumps for and they are all shmups. Can post the list if this project is still going.

[DJ Incompetent]

It is. Please do so.

thank you oli_lar

[tiaoferreira]

Hi all!

I was reading the XENOCIDE FILES and I observed that don't there are ATARI 2600 and FLASH games in the lists. These platforms have incredible games and those deserve be mentioned on that database.

For Atari 2600 a classic and excellent game is RIVER RAID, and it can't be out of any list.

Of course, Atari 2600 doesn't has many good shooter games, but it still has many fun to offer.

SPACE JOCKEY
YAR'S REVENGE
MEGAMANIA
SPIDER FIGHTER
MEGAFORCE
CHOPPER COMMAND
PLANET PATROL
SNOOPY AND THE RED BARON
WORM WAR I
AIR-SEA-BATTLE
ATLANTIS
MISSILE COMMAND
SPACE INVADERS
CONDOR ATTACK
DEMON ATTACK
LASER GATES
AIR RAIDERS
SEA QUEST
MOON PATROL
XEVIOUS
BEANNY BOOPER
BERZERK
FRONT LINE
COMMANDO
ASTROMASH
ASTROBLADE
SPACE TUNNEL
FANTASTIC VOYAGE
NEXAR
STAR WARS - THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
STAR WARS - THE DEATH STAR
STAR WARS - THE ARCADE
CRACKPOTS
BOOM BANG
RIVER RAID BRASIL
TNT
ASTEROIDS

And many more.

The same request is valid for FLASH games. The platform has a great library, with various incredible titles, like follow:

DRAKOJAN SKIES
DRAKOJAN SKIES ACOLITTIES
RED BARON
RAIDEN-X
FA-18 HORNET
FA-18 STRIKE FORCE
ASCENT AIRCRAFT
FLYING FORTRESS
HELI COMBAT
HELI STRIKE
MAUS FORCE ATTACK
TWIN POWER
THE EVA PROJECT
TWILIGHT WALKIRIE
WASTED SKY
PROJECT INTRHI
PROJECT INTRHI 2
PROJECT INTRHI 3
NIGHT RAPTOR

And tons of good games for other systems, like Intellivision and Odissey.

End of message. Out. Thanks for DJ Incometent tips.