Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

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neorichieb1971
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Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Hi,

I Can't seem to find my answer anywhere else. So resorting to here.

PS3 definitely can. Although I would assume the PS4 version to be the better version. All videos of the PS4 version I can find are using only a small portion of the screen for the gameplay area.


Thanks for any feedbacks,

Richie.
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CloudyMusic
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by CloudyMusic »

Yes, you can; you can tate all of the M2 ShotTriggers ports. There are even separate widgets for tate mode that display above and below the gameplay.
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Hmm, very interesting.

I am shocked that nobody has shown a screenshot or youtube capture of the PS4 version in TATE mode.

Thanks for the other interesting bits as well :D
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by RawlingGunnar »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Hmm, very interesting.

I am shocked that nobody has shown a screenshot or youtube capture of the PS4 version in TATE mode.

Thanks for the other interesting bits as well :D
I think mostly it's because the screen looks sparse with nothing on the sides and for YouTube, that can put viewers off. I watched a video about another shot triggers game where they showed the rotation function, but generally played in yoko with the widgets enabled. Battle Garegga 2016, I think.
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Triple Lei
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by Triple Lei »

Possible threadjack, but...

I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth TATEing anymore for shmups from the PS3/360 generation and later.

Dodonpachi Saidaioujou has all sorts of neat stuff for its Xbox 360 mode on the sides of a non-rotated screen. M2's ShotTriggers releases take this even further. And this thread about Xbox 360 shmups needing a lot of tweaking just to look decent makes me want to ditch TATE altogether (for HD consoles, anyway) and play my non-240p shmups non-rotated on my usual non-rotated gaming TV.

I'm gonna guess our gaming TVs are bigger and better than they were 10 years ago, and so the actual non-rotated gameplay area on a 4K TV probably isn't all that smaller than playing full screen TATE on a 16:9 computer monitor, especially when you take into account the wasted sides on the top and bottom, since these games are still 4:3. And to my knowledge the only actual 9:16 shmups are both on PSP: Star Soldier and NeoGeo Heroes Ultimate Shooting (the latter because while in TATE, life bars etc. are in the top and bottom borders outside of the gameplay area).

I just started thinking about all this because I finally got a copy of Instant Brain on Xbox 360 for Dodonpachi, and if I can't rotate the screen in that port, I thought I'd learn to live with it. (I can't change the config either, but building a dedicated, rewired stick for this game is a lot easier... and fun!)
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CloudyMusic
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by CloudyMusic »

neorichieb1971 wrote:Hmm, very interesting.

I am shocked that nobody has shown a screenshot or youtube capture of the PS4 version in TATE mode.

Thanks for the other interesting bits as well :D
Some people play in tate mode while they stream, you just can't tell as easily because they rotate it back to normal in the streaming software so people can actually watch it, lol.

Here's a stream SPS did just recently in tate mode, I'm guessing directly from his PS4, which has no way to do the above.
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6t8k
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by 6t8k »

If memory serves right, in the PS4 version, you can even play in tate, and later playback your replay in yoko (or vice-versa).
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

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Austin
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by Austin »

Triple Lei wrote:I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth TATEing anymore for shmups from the PS3/360 generation and later.
It is very much worth TATEing on smaller monitor setups, which I'd imagine a lot of PC players are still using. Some players here even rotate their large HD TVs and sit back on the couch and play.

When I stream, I play on a 24" monitor regardless whether it's console on PC. It's on a rotatable monitor stand and that sucker is always rotated when I'm playing games that support TATE.
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Xyga
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by Xyga »

Just a bit disappointing that ShotTriggers don't feature better scaling and filtering options to fill up the vertical real estate in yoko.
And same for tate anyway, they haven't made major efforts for scaling and filtering overall.

Things haven't changed since the 360 era for arcade shmups ports, you still need either a DVDO or a TV with good flexible scaling/overscan options if you want to make full use of your display's real estate.

You would have expected that with ressources as powerful as this gen's consoles, they would have implemented at the very least custom scaling w/ smoothing shaders. Well nope...
Emulators still wipe the floor with console ports in that area.
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SuperPang
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by SuperPang »

I disagree. I was amazed how good these look on a 4K TV.
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Xyga
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by Xyga »

But can you fill up the vertical real estate ? no. Unless you use a TV's scaling/overscan options you cannot.

It may not be a problem on a large 4K TV because the picture's still big anyway, but on smaller TVs and monitors it sucks.
Even in tate it sucks to play with black borders.

Basically Shottriggers do not offer a fully justified border-to-border neatly scaled and filtered option.
And even without that I don't find the default smoothing really good, it's too strong.

Assuming you have a large 4K with decent scaling and interpolation, then it'll probably look better with smoothing off, and if the TV's scaling's really good you may even preserve benefit of the scanlines option without suffering visible artifacts, but that entirely depends on the set's ability.

So overall, considering the means M2 have at their disposal, yes I really think they've been lazy with the visual/output options, I can do way better with MAME (not even trying scanlines, just HLSL with only X & Y custom defocus, one of the best 'secret' features of that emulator, or even just no shader and only filter + prescale 2 or 3 already look better than the port's smoothing, and all that can scale to any resolution, remaining low on resources, should be easy-peasy for a PS4 or even a Switch, and was for the previous gen too)
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heli
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by heli »

Battle garegga looks better because of exact scaling.
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Xyga
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by Xyga »

...Except when you increase to the max authorized (303%) there you can see scaling artifacts even with smoothing on.
And that smoothing is too strong as well anyway.

They're all the same. Ketsui actually shows less issues when maximized to what they allow as long as smoothing is on.

The really good thing about the ShotTrigger ports is that besides the many game customization options, gadgets and new modes, they've payed attention to accuracy of the base emulated game, and that's what matters the most.

But since they've been available I was surprised to hear people say they look great/perfect, because they don't, or people have low standards and never knew what actually good scaling and smoothing look like.

I will never understand M2 in that area, they used to offer excellent video options on many games, but at times they just go lazy like here, and unless you're satisfied with large borders while keeping integer on, you better have external means of scaling and smoothing (flexible TV or a DVDO-like processor)
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6t8k
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by 6t8k »

Xyga wrote:But can you fill up the vertical real estate ? no. [...] Even in tate it sucks to play with black borders.
I've made a short video (somewhat surprised nobody contested this).

The shimmering that occurs when the H or V scaling factor is not pixel aligned is really not bad in my books and I don't notice it at all when actually playing the game.
It's eliminated by the smoothing option, though I wholeheartedly agree that the smoothing is too strong - it does not play at all in the league of, say, the interpolation that Analogue devices offer, which would have been ideal (and certainly possible on the hardware).
Note that the smoothing is off in the above video, which you naturally should watch in 1080p for best results.
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Xyga
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Re: Can you tate in PS4 Ketsui?

Post by Xyga »

You can still see some of it in Garegga even when smoothing is on.

For me even the Analogue or Retrotink style of smoothing is too strong.

Anyway the point is they could have done much better, like fully customizable scaling and smoothing.
It's strange how we often assume game developers know about these things, and we believe in M2 like, religiously, but I guess developers can have low standards the same way end users who still use plain bilinear and plain scanlines after 20 years of MAME do.

I know it's M2 but come on guys; it may be the only part of ShotTriggers they've screwed, but they really did.
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