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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:28 pm 


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The aesthetic in Strania is certainly more varied than Under Defeat is. Under Defeat probably won't be everyone's cup of tea in terms of it sticking to its guns and delivering on its gritty, military aesthetic (which it does a very good job of, imo), but Under Defeat is probably the better game overall if you had to pick one. It's mechanically simpler, but it all feels like it works a lot better and the core gameplay is more enjoyable than Strania. The twin stick New Order mode obviously will have some appeal for people looking for more control, but I think the original arcade as well as New Order both felt just fine once you got used to the default controls (Reverse functions better than Normal in my opinion for keeping your sights on enemies in the middle of the screen). The bombs also feel super satisfying to use defensively in a way Strania's O.D. is not.

I agree that "dodge the powerups" is often a mechanic that ends up being to the game's detriment, and something like Ibara Black Kuro where you "store" the weapons you collect and cycle through them via selection is probably better overall. I don't think "dodge the powerups" is always fatal to a game though, and there's several shmups like that I play. It depends on how it's implemented (Mushihimesama always starts the powerups at your current weapon before they cycle, Under Defeat doesn't let powerups go below a certain point on the screen where you can dodge without worrying about collecting one, etc). Strania's weapon placement and how they fall is such that it's rarely a matter of dodging them and more of knowing what to pick when, I think.

Nex Machina also deserves mention, it's an impressive top-down action shmup.

ChoRenSha 68k wasn't made in the last decade but it's worth a mention in that the developer released an update patch for the Windows version to ensure it works with modern operating systems in 2017. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:02 pm 



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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
The aesthetic in Strania is certainly more varied than Under Defeat is. Under Defeat probably won't be everyone's cup of tea in terms of it sticking to its guns and delivering on its gritty, military aesthetic (which it does a very good job of, imo), but Under Defeat is probably the better game overall if you had to pick one. It's mechanically simpler, but it all feels like it works a lot better and the core gameplay is more enjoyable than Strania. The twin stick New Order mode obviously will have some appeal for people looking for more control, but I think the original arcade as well as New Order both felt just fine once you got used to the default controls (Reverse functions better than Normal in my opinion for keeping your sights on enemies in the middle of the screen). The bombs also feel super satisfying to use defensively in a way Strania's O.D. is not.

I agree that "dodge the powerups" is often a mechanic that ends up being to the game's detriment, and something like Ibara Black Kuro where you "store" the weapons you collect and cycle through them via selection is probably better overall. I don't think "dodge the powerups" is always fatal to a game though, and there's several shmups like that I play. It depends on how it's implemented (Mushihimesama always starts the powerups at your current weapon before they cycle, Under Defeat doesn't let powerups go below a certain point on the screen where you can dodge without worrying about collecting one, etc). Strania's weapon placement and how they fall is such that it's rarely a matter of dodging them and more of knowing what to pick when, I think.


You know I never consciously noted/remembered that about Under Defeat's powerups (it's been a while since I've played) but you're right, that's a nifty compromise. It's also true there's not a huge rain of weapons in Strania (like those friggin machine guns in Ibara) but I recall a tight spot in level 2 (but don't quote me on this) somewhere where it gives me the sword and I don't want the sword but I can't dodge it and now I've got two swords and I need a gun and all I got is the m*****f***ing reflect and...

Other than that, well, I also prefer Under Defeat. I agree it's less varied visually but it REALLY nails the super heavy military hardware aesthetic. Even though it's pretty old by now and graphically retrograde compared to modern AAA stuff, the models still look neat and the visceral sense of destruction still comes through perfectly. The billowing smoke, the way the grenades/rockets slam into the bosses and of course the bomb! LOL, it's the only shmup bomb that actually makes me question how *I* actually survived it. UD's presentation is kind of timeless really, it does exactly what is needed, nothing superfluous.

Twin Stick controls... yeah I can't tate my living room TV cause it's a plasma so I've been mostly playing New Order. I do remember playing the original TATE game on a dreamcast emulator way back when and getting pretty into it. But for New Order now I definitely prefer twin stick, I think it makes sense with the widescreen and dammit the game is hard enough already for me LOL!

Nex Machina, got it but have yet to sit down with it. Loved previous housemarque games, though.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:57 pm 


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Quote:
The billowing smoke, the way the grenades/rockets slam into the bosses and of course the bomb! LOL, it's the only shmup bomb that actually makes me question how *I* actually survived it.


There's also that super satisfying scream/howl as your helicopter launches those blue lasers all around to cancel bullets right before the bombing run happens. It hits all the right notes in terms of visual and auditory appeal for a shmup bomb.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:26 pm 



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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
There's also that super satisfying scream/howl as your helicopter launches those blue lasers all around to cancel bullets right before the bombing run happens. It hits all the right notes in terms of visual and auditory appeal for a shmup bomb.


It would probably rank #2 a shmups GOAT bomba vote, having to yield only to "bouncing penguin hula girls annihilation" from *insert random obscure shmup here*

Anyway, I haven't seen Steredenn - Binary Stars mentioned and I think it deserves a shout out as well. Classic shmup gameplay + roguelite elements: semi-randomized stages, random drops of weapons, random upgrades and abilities at the end of each level, multiple boss variations, etc. Also has a pretty dry sense of humour. The rogue stuff is well implemented and really does help with the monotony of replaying the early stages, so it's successful in that respect. There's some pretty fun and creative weapons too e.g. a pretty powerful machine gun that becomes more erratic the longer you fire it so you have to stop shooting periodically to "focus" it again.

Also saw Revolver360 Reactor mentioned... this is an amazing game presentation wise, the wireframe inside-the-matrix look is really well done (except it's all in blue instead of green... is there some kind of blue pill analogy here?). The revolving mechanic takes some getting used to and is hella disorienting, but it does add something genuinely fresh to the experience. You can use it to dodge bullets, but the level design is such that you also have to keep track of what's around you and (once the game starts scrolling screen inward) what's ahead of you, because you will need to eliminate obstacles at some points. There are only 4 levels, but they have branching paths and secret sections. A lot of attention to detail went into this. It can be confusing what can actually hit you, but the game is pretty forgiving and has health pickups. So the gameplay isn't super tight, but it's still very enjoyable.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:56 pm 


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Hi! My first post, even if i follow the forum from ages :)
I'll like to give prizes for 3 categories, giving how the STG gaming scene evolved in the '10:

Major developer: Dariuburst CS+DLCs
Indie: Zero Ranger
Port: Battle Garegga rev. 2016

While this decade was surely a downgrade from the 00's years, It is nice to see how the STG genre is resurging fast. In the first two years of the next decade we will likely get a new Aleste game (Aleste Branch), a new R-Type (FINAL 2), a new Iuchi-san game (Ubusuga) and hopefully M2 can port one or two great classics under the Shot Trigger moniker.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:44 pm 


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One of my choices will be somewhat controversial, but here are those from the last 10 years i love:

Eschatos
It has simple mechanics, but not too simple. Also it has kinda an emergency button, which i need because i am not a very good shmup player. Also i like unlocking stuff.
Main reason though is the feel of story that is told. I mean there isnt really much, just aliens invading. There is no dialogue or text. But still the story is told just by the camera of the game. You are right in the middle of the invasion, the camera shows the context, like the masses of enemies released by those gigantic boss ufos, then you go into space and see the moon and everything.
The two points i want to make are that the story is told without a single word, which is just superb storytelling, and at the same time it gives you a feel of reality of the invasion while playing that i cant recall from any other game in the genre.
On top of that it is a good game in itself, but that is something i am more trusting the experts than seeing the finer stuff myself, because i am kinda limited by pretty much exclusively playing on steam and looking through top X lists like on this forum here.

Caladrius Blaze
Yeah i can see the experts here immediately getting all like "what?", but hear me out:
You could argue it is kinda a Raiden clone with a bunch of stuff thrown in or something like that. But that exactly is what i love about this game.
As much as i like the Raiden games, i cant see myself ever getting a legit 1cc on normal on these games. I want to love them and i kinda do, but that is mostly because of the feel and look. They are just too hard for me i think. Along comes Caladrius Blaze with a similar feel and look, and throws a bunch of emergency buttons at me that i can even increase by one or two when i customize my elemental shots.
That makes it the Raiden game for me i always wanted. This collective forum might rank it only at #100 of all time (which is still good company), but in this decade and with my limited options (steam), i rank it absurdly high. And even in an all-time list, i would rank it in my top 5 along with Hellsinker, Deathsmiles and Mushihimesama. (still keep in mind my limited options and my limited experience with the classics. I always loved those games, but between the age of SNES and now i played too much AAA-crap).


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:07 am 


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I dig Caladrius Blaze, it has cool weaponry, great space-gothic-medieval enemy/boss design, and is just a top-flight all-around effort. Is it best of the decade material? I'm not real sure, because the soft-core porn aspect is too prominent to ignore and icky enough to keep me from playing all that often. Sadly yes, I hate it that much.

I guess you can turn it way down/off in the Switch version? I'm unable to find this option in the PC version. I'm able to reduce it a great deal by playing the one male character (for some reason, large amounts of his clothing isn't tore off whenever he's hit...), but sadly, the bosses still have inserts of them screaming in pain while being stripped of their clothing which I guess I'm supposed to feel good about. I mean, if it works for you, cheers. I'm not going to try and stop you. Personally. I find it pretty vile.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:19 am 


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m.sniffles.esq wrote:
I'm unable to find this option in the PC version.


options -> game settings -> illust

There you can get rid of the sidebars and/or the shame break pics, all that is left then is the result screen when you make it through a level without losing a life.

I am aware that Caladrius Blaze might not be best of the decade material material in kinda an objective sense, but that is more a personal choice. For me it is the version of Raiden in a sense that otherwise never existed, just not with contemporary/sci fi stuff. The Raiden type game that is possible to beat for me 1cc. That is why i like it that much.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:30 pm 


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Quote:
options -> game settings -> illust

There you can get rid of the sidebars and/or the shame break pics, all that is left then is the result screen when you make it through a level without losing a life.


Oh okay, thank you.
I didn't put together that illust = images of sexualized violence in my head.

And don't get me wrong, I have no problem with harmless titillation. Hell, I've played a ton of Deathsmiles and the like. It's just the whole images of clothing being torn off matched with sound effects of screams of pain, just crosses the line with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:56 am 


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gotta agree with Crimzon Clover for sure. Monolith was also one that i neglected for much longer than i should have -- it's a fantastic and really unique little gem. i don't particularly care that much for roguelikes but Monolith does a pretty good job of making the format more digestible.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:13 pm 


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This one will probably get very limited support, but I'd be remiss if I didn't nominate

Radirgy Swag
I didn't expect much of this one. Many rejected it from screenshots. I had heard nothing but completely terrible things about the previous post-milestone Radirgy tittle. And really, I've always been more of a Karous man myself. Yet, I picked it up because if a couple Milestone refugees were going to make a Radirgy title in 2019, well, that was enough of a lost cause to earn my support. Plus, it was only $20...

And the game turned out to be fucking awesome.

I'm not sure if the original Radirgy can be considered 'bullet hell' but this game certain can not, and that ends up being a really great thing. Bullet hell sucks on the Switch. Period. Most of the time when playing undocked and you're hit, you can't even tell where the hit came from. You need 10x reading glasses to weave through tight bullet patterns, and even then, you wish you had 15x. Quick and easy TATE mode seemed attractive on paper, but there's a reason everybody is complaining about their flip grips collecting dust.

So while RS34 could have made a carbon copy of the original Radirgy, and the fan base would have been pleased. They found it senseless to create an arcade game that would never be played inside a arcade. So they rolled the dice, went back to the drawing board, and ended up concocting the perfect shooter for the Switch. One that gives the exhilaration the of '90s-'00s titles, but plays just as well on a small screen as it does on a large one.

So yes, there's a health bar. No, there's no bosses. And neither of those things matter. Because, when you're able to put a run together that hits the goal (or goes beyond it) you feel like you just ran a marathon, but you can't pry the smile from your face with a crowbar. And that's whether you're on the sofa, or at the bus stop, in bed, or in traffic.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:43 am 


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Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet, Eden's Ageis is a really good shmup from very early this decade (First release was Jan 1, 2010!!) It plays kind of like Mushihimesama with its mechanics such as bullet canceling. Graphics and sound are great for a freeware title & I highly recommend.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:02 am 


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I liked Space Invaders Infinity Gene on 360 as well. The mobile versions dont have the last few worlds where the game goes into 3D shapes and raycrisis & treasure style patterns. Was one of the first 1CCs I got but I dunno if I'd recommend that since it's painfully long.
That vote sounds fun, we had similar ones for doujin games and soundtracks over the years.

A few games I didn't see mentioned. Almost all are untraditional shmups though:

Kaikan
RefRain ~prism memories~

Sora
2010 Sequel to Suguri. These games focus on special dashing mechanic used to dodge basic projectiles and graze to gain attack meter. Lock-on system and technical weapon use. Sora takes it further with polished presentation, more weapons and crazy enemy patterns. Hard to describe this game, maybe watch jaimers' run for an idea.

Ginga Force
Third shmup by Qute following Judgement Silversword & Eschatos. Untraditional per-stage score attack game. Stages usually have some unique gimmick or extended boss fight. Ridiculous/fun bullet patterns on hard mode. Focus on bullet cancels and some tactical suicides. Here's to hoping Natsuki Chronicle coming out right at the end of the decade is really good too.

Murasaki & Murasaki Tsurugi
Shmup / puzzle hybrid with unique method of attacking enemies by shooting special blocks into eachother causing chain reactions. Boss fights with some pretty clever / fun to dodge patterns. Have to rethink movement because of the puzzle mechanics angle element. Some challenging dodging in both games in their hardest stages. Series has strong soundtracks and a unique visual style.

Assault Android Cactus
2015 Arena shooter that beats out Nex Machina in most aspects for me. Good stage variety and full chaining them is a great challenge. Many characters to choose from with different normal shots and special weapons. Hard mode added for free in 2019 revamps the stages and is really challenging to S+ rank even for veterans of the genre.
Solid scoring system even by general shmup standards: fairly lenient donpachi style chaining, but killing enemies at once gives a temporary 'burst' to multiplier a bit like esprade. Big time bonus scaled to fit each stage.
'Semi-random' enemy spawn and powerup system that seems to work for both people looking for randomness and hardcore play: enemy spawns are based on your rough location, and powerups are on a global timer. So if executing a solid route the same things happen. If not, the variation on diverging from route is predictable.
I might rate Nex Machina higher if game long chaining and secret hunting appealed to me at all. AAC feels like a great pick up and play score attack game for individual stages. Also less reliance on an evasive / invincible dodge move and more normal shmup dodging.

Rival Megagun
New versus shooter akin to Twinkle Star Sprites and PoDD&PoFV. More focus on normal shmup gameplay & bullet hell dodging than TSS. Playing on the higher difficulties and in longer matches the enemy patterns get seriously intense, for most stages in a way that still feels like solid shmup stage design.
I'm not sure what the general consensus is on this, haven't seen anyone into this subgenre (TSS, POFV etc.) say anything negative about the game. The upcoming EXA arcade release will probably come with some gameplay revamps and further tweaks. Largest playerbase is in japan on PC. Netcode is extremely good, the normal shmup part is lagless. Input delay only happens when controlling the boss form; in which case it may be for the best those moves have some base control delay. Assuming not that many people have given this a shot yet, but the japanese group is keeping it alive with weekly sessions.

And yeah, even Alltynex Second came out in 2010. I don't really see a shortage here. Personally still havent spent much time with Crimzon Clover. That and many others like Stellavanity you could already spend years on.


Last edited by Zaarock on Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:55 pm 



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Zaarock wrote:

  Post subject:  Re: Shooters of the Decade  
I liked Space Invaders Infinity Gene on 360 as well. The mobile versions dont have the last few worlds where the game goes into 3D shapes and raycrisis & treasure style patterns. Was one of the first 1CCs I got but I dunno if I'd recommend that since it's painfully long.


Haha wow you 1cc'd Infinity Gene? Hats off! But yeah, it's probably best approached on a per-stage basis. Nice to see some more love for this game.

Zaarock wrote:
Assault Android Cactus
2015 Arena shooter that beats out Nex Machina in most aspects for me. Good stage variety and full chaining them is a great challenge. Many characters to choose from with different normal shots and special weapons. Hard mode added for free in 2019 revamps the stages and is really challenging to S+ rank even for veterans of the genre.


I just started playing this a couple of weeks ago and was surprised at how intense and fun it gets almost straight out of the gate. The battery-as-timer mechanic keeps the pressure on but it's lenient toward getting hit because you can recuperate if you are determined. I'd certainly recommend everyone here trying it.


This thread has been steadily turning into a treasure trove of obscure pc shmups for me BTW, like I'd never heard of Kaikan, Battle Traverse, Cambria Sword...
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:06 pm 


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Zaarock wrote:

Sora
2010 Sequel to Suguri. These games focus on special dashing mechanic used to dodge basic projectiles and graze to gain attack meter. Lock-on system and techincal weapon use. Sora takes it further with polished presentation, more weapons and crazy enemy patterns. .


imho, Sora is kind of actual single player campaign for senko no ronde that we never got. Right? I mean, senko only ever had usual duels in SP modes, and never had the whole "level with many enemies and boss at the end".

As for Assault Cactus, i liked it at first, but later totally gave up. Too annoying for me. I'm not good at Nex, but at least i don't have any strong "contra" for it yet.

...anyway, nice thread here, but i disappear into a shadows again to play some Tempest 4000 :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:16 am 


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Quote:
imho, Sora is kind of actual single player campaign for senko no ronde that we never got. Right? I mean, senko only ever had usual duels in SP modes, and never had the whole "level with many enemies and boss at the end".


Well... there is the final level of Senko where it turns into a all out shooter (with boss)
But seeing that it's just the final level, it almost feels weird to include it.

That said, holy crap Sora looks awesome! And due to the Steam sale it's $5 (and currently downloading) Thank you for the heads up!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:04 am 


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Just grabbed the Android Space Invaders Infinity Gene, and wanted to give the head-up that it's currently half off at $2.50.

I don't know if I mentioned that I'm a fan, but typing this is keeping me from diving in, so...


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:10 am 


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I'd probably have to go with Eschatos. Just something about that quick hit wave based gameplay does it for me, it's just such a good 'pure' shooter that remains compelling for me despite not having very intricate systems/gimmicks/etc. DB:CS and Crimzon Clover are very strong choices too, and those might round out my top 3.

A couple games that I just want to mention because I find them rather underrated:
1) Deathsmiles IIX (which I'd consider this decade, since it was a 2010 release with substantial improvement from the 2009 original arcade DS2) I've been playing it a lot in the past few days, as it's in my "Christmas games" rotation. And... I always have a good time with it. I appreciate the commitment to the twisted Christmas premise, the mechanics are fine, and I just think it kinda gets a bad rap due to the ugly 3D, poor state of the initial arcade release, and some backlash on the underage moe stuff. But as a game, I dig it.

2) People mentioned Caladrius, and I'll toss in that I quite enjoy Raiden V. I realize that's probably not a super popular opinion, but that's fine with me. I like it as a survival game with some effort put into presentation. The long stages aren't usually my thing, but I play it when I'm in a mood for something different.

Best soundtrack of the decade:
Holy hell there were some good ones, but chibi-tech's AMAZING VIP Arrange for the M2 ShotTriggers Dangun Feveron release is next level stuff and I look for any excuse to plug it... so, DECADE BEST!

Strong competition too, with stuff like Namiki killing it on SDOJ, Yousuke Yasui doing great work on Eschatos, Yoshimi Kudo for Raiden V, some killer Cave arranges (I looooove the DFK iOS Arrange), some quality indie stuff like Heavyviper putting together consistent high quality music for several of the Team Grybanser Fox games, Zuntata on the Infinity Gene and Groove Coaster games...


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:36 pm 


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I'm really happy to see the Eschatos love. I never vote in the Top 25 yearly threads but Eschatos is easily the game I've gotten the most enjoyment since I got into the genre (2013) tied with Mushi.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:06 pm 


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Shepardus wrote:
Battle Traverse


This, absolutely.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm 



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My Top 5:

1. Rolling Gunner
2. Dariusburst: Chronicle Saviours
3. Astebreed
4. DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou
5. Raiden V

Honorable mentions:

Ginga Force
Otomedius Excellent
DeathSmiles II X
Devil Engine
Space Invaders Infinity Gene
Assault Android Cactus
Strania
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:35 pm 


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Wow, I sort of wrote Assault Android Cactus off as YATSD (yet another twin-stick deal). Maybe closer inspection is due...

As for:
Quote:
Best soundtrack of the decade:


That's a whole 'nother can 'o worms (should it be a whole 'nother thread??)
Off the top of my head, I'd probably put Dariusburst if not at #1, then up there. Sometimes when shooters attempt the "epic-as-fuck" soundtrack it comes off as "corny-as-fuck" instead. But Dariusburst's manages to give the proceedings sweep and wonder while complimenting the visuals pretty beautifully.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:27 pm 



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My top 5 are just perfect, though. At least the case of Rolling Gunner.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:04 am 


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I only have a top 3 but these games, for me, stood above the rest.
Crimzon Clover
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou
Darius Burst: Chronicle Saviours

honorable mention to Black Bird. I haven't tried the game myself but watched the episode on STGWeekly and it looks awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:03 pm 


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- Eschatos makes a good case for being my favorite STG ever. So cinematic, sweeping, beautiful, with so many great ways to play and an amazing learning curve. When you leave earth and the twinkly music plays is an all-time videogame moment. Also the stars are beautiful in that game. And the last boss is amazing. Just an absolute 100% classic all around.
- Ginga Force is also quite wonderful
- Mecha Ritz slays (and that soundtrack!) and I can't wait for the Switch port
- Deathsmiles 2X is one of my favorite Cave games, just so friendly and fun
- ZeroRanger is a banger of a fanmade game. Stands toe to toe with the SNES/Genesis/TG-16 era classica imo. Perfectly executed.

I will say though, I just don't understand the love for Darius Burst. It feels like a middling game with a ton of content. Very R-Type Final to me.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:17 pm 



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Special World wrote:
- Eschatos makes a good case for being my favorite STG ever. So cinematic, sweeping, beautiful, with so many great ways to play and an amazing learning curve. When you leave earth and the twinkly music plays is an all-time videogame moment. Also the stars are beautiful in that game. And the last boss is amazing. Just an absolute 100% classic all around.


I've seen Eschatos mentioned a couple of times and yeah, the seamless journey this games takes you on is definitely its strongest point. It's a really great example of a game that has a strong audiovisual narrative without a word of needless expository dialogue. It's an interesting contrast with Raiden V... I would be super interested to see an alternate version of Raiden made by Qute.


Special World wrote:
I will say though, I just don't understand the love for Darius Burst. It feels like a middling game with a ton of content. Very R-Type Final to me.


In relation to the above I thought this was an interesting point... I would argue that the best levels and boss encounters offered by DariusBurst CS would certainly rival Eschatos if you could paste them back to back. But I do understand your criticism, I also have felt that the game seems to eager to dilute the experience by wrapping it up in a CS mode that feels a bit too much like a monster hunter type grind fest. I found that playing the original arcade mode (despite letterboxing) immediately felt more focused.

It left me wondering though... you could for example compare DariusBurst to Steredenn, and conclude that all the Darius CS mode levels have roughly the same level of complexity, variation and challenge as the levels that Steredenn procedurally generates. So maybe a new Darius should consider co-opting a procedural approach to level design? Or maybe (and that's what you seem to be saying) the strength of a shmup is in focused, inventive and engaging level design, of the kind that procedural generation can't yield in the foreseeable future. So that would mean you'd rather play the same level sequence in Eschatos over and over again rather than the more varied/mission based approach that DariusBurst takes?

I'm honestly quite conflicted about this myself. On the one hand I do appreciate that DariusBurst gives me the option of playing different missions/challenges to break from the monotony, in the same way I appreciate that no two runs of Steredenn are ever the same. On the other hand, it's very hard to argue against a strong and focused audiovisual narrative like what Eschatos does.

Oh, and I know it's a forum fashion but please give R-type Final a break, that game does so many awesome things and y'all are just salty about some slowdown. Halve the daily adderal intake and call me again in the morning if you aren't feeling better ;-)
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:28 am 


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That's exactly right. The gameplay has to be good enough to make me want more of it in the first place. I'm having fun playing Esp.rade's missions, and those are just bite-sized chunks of the main game. But the game itself is really fun! I'd rather play Darius Gaiden over Darius Burst any day of the week.

In fact, if it was any other genre I think that people on this forum would say the same thing. "Oh, you're just padding out this first person shooter with unlockables and mediocre content. I'd rather play Ketsui for 30 minutes, see ya!"

I think Darius Burst works as a shmup "event," in that its a fabled series with DLC from other shmups. But i dunno, i just think it's kinda... lame. It doesn't get me excited for anything but the soundtrack.

But this is all just, like, totally my opinion, man.
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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:40 pm 


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Initially, I felt that Dariusburst's content was just a quick and dirty way to try and justify it's inflated price tag.

Then I spent so much goddamn time playing it I'm forced to admit than even if it's just a quick and dirty way to try and justify it's inflated price tag, it works...

Other than that, the main game itself is big, slick, well-designed, delivers plenty of 'wow' moments, and (most importantly) is FUN.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooters of the Decade
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:45 pm 



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 139
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Special World wrote:
That's exactly right. The gameplay has to be good enough to make me want more of it in the first place. I'm having fun playing Esp.rade's missions, and those are just bite-sized chunks of the main game. But the game itself is really fun! I'd rather play Darius Gaiden over Darius Burst any day of the week.

In fact, if it was any other genre I think that people on this forum would say the same thing. "Oh, you're just padding out this first person shooter with unlockables and mediocre content. I'd rather play Ketsui for 30 minutes, see ya!"

I think Darius Burst works as a shmup "event," in that its a fabled series with DLC from other shmups. But i dunno, i just think it's kinda... lame. It doesn't get me excited for anything but the soundtrack.

But this is all just, like, totally my opinion, man.


Haha, obviously... well, at least we're agreed on the DariusBurst soundtrack. :-)
Let's put it this way, I'm not gonna argue with you about the awesomeness of Eschatos, when i first played it you should have seen my face turn from skeptical (wondering why everyone was making a fuss about a rather simple-looking game), to the widest grin. I guess I just dream of a game that has the content of DariusBurst and all of it as awesome as Eschatos... and I have to give DariusBurst some credit for at least trying.

m.sniffles.esq wrote:
Initially, I felt that Dariusburst's content was just a quick and dirty way to try and justify it's inflated price tag.

Then I spent so much goddamn time playing it I'm forced to admit than even if it's just a quick and dirty way to try and justify it's inflated price tag, it works...


other than that, this is basically me LOL, I just had the game on my vita on holiday and spent a lot of time playing because it was just there and I was on the bus (or something), and grew to appreciate it more over time.
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