Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

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Ako
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Ako »

ShewtUmOp wrote:Isn't this that weird M-rated furry warfare shmup? I think I watched part of a playthrough and wasn't very impressed.
furries + serious rape subplot = you got a fuckin winner on your hands jk it's garbage
odilo
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by odilo »

I really liked sine mora when i had no comparison or knowledge of the genre but i find now the more i play of notably good shmups the worse it becomes and its flaws more apparent.
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segasonicfan
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by segasonicfan »

The plot seems terrible, that I can agree with.
That would suck if they ignored all player feedback. It's a pretty common thing for corporations and nonprofits to do.
Still, I give the game credit for trying new things in the genre. But I guess I'm the only one here that likes it lol
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Shelcoof wrote:They seriously ignored all feedback? Wow
It sounds like I'm exaggerating but they really did. Not gonna waste my time digging up the old thread links, but the consensus is they came only to attempt to hype it and not get actual feedback. Some fairly egregious responses I remember were them saying if they had a slow movement button (for folks playing with D-Pad or stick) it would feel too "hardcore" and they're not trying to aim for a "hardcore" audience, which felt especially odd given they had namedropped stuff like Battle Garegga as development inspiration, etc.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Shelcoof »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Shelcoof wrote:They seriously ignored all feedback? Wow
It sounds like I'm exaggerating but they really did. Not gonna waste my time digging up the old thread links, but the consensus is they came only to attempt to hype it and not get actual feedback. Some fairly egregious responses I remember were them saying if they had a slow movement button (for folks playing with D-Pad or stick) it would feel too "hardcore" and they're not trying to aim for a "hardcore" audience, which felt especially odd given they had namedropped stuff like Battle Garegga as development inspiration, etc.
Developing a game for such a niche genre you'd assume they would listen. I mean I really love how the game looks especially the Vita version on OLED. But I dunno its just not fun and this is coming from a non hardcore shmuper like myself
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Kobayashi
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Kobayashi »

I disagree with 95% of the posts here. In my personal opinion Sine Mora is very good.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Shelcoof »

Kobayashi wrote:I disagree with 95% of the posts here. In my personal opinion Sine Mora is very good.
Mods Ban Please! 8)
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

MauCast wrote:- There's an actual focus button that makes you slower, which in the original version didn't have.
I'm shocked that the EX version seems to have gotten their act together somewhat, but I mean we did keep saying Sine Mora could become decently playable with a patch releasing some necessary tweaks to the game. Doesn't mean I'm prepared to shell out cash to play it though.

Do special abilities still penalize your scoring rank like bombs do? There were so many little obnoxious "why??" things that piled on together the original game felt just totally unacceptable. Like, as unacceptable as the damn piano thing.
Kobayashi wrote:I disagree with 95% of the posts here. In my personal opinion Sine Mora is very good.
You don't have to love a mediocre game with a furry aesthetic just because you're a furry. :roll:
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Jonpachi »

I got this for $12 on the Switch and I can't hate on it too bad for that price, but I also played it about three times before shelving it. I want to steal all their pretty assets and make a better game out of them.
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werk91
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by werk91 »

Got this way back on the Vita on a sale and finished it once. Haven't even thought about until seeing this thread now so it must've left a "good" impression :lol:
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MauCast
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by MauCast »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote: Do special abilities still penalize your scoring rank like bombs do?
Unfortunately yes, and the stupid piano is still there. :evil:
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Karacho
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Karacho »

I am no shmup expert like most of you, and i only played the demo. I really want to like it, but somehow the gameplay feels wrong. I cant really put my finger on it. I think it has something to do with the hitboxes or feedback. But it is something very essential in the feel while playing it. Something tht is there every second, so nut just patterns.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Ixmucane2 »

The time-based system allows the game to be simultaneously too easy (boring easy, without even the possibility to perform interesting stunts) and too hard (stupid unfair bullet patterns, low visibility, low speed). A game that doesn't let me die properly because I haven't crashed into a wall hard enough is simply wrong.
As noted by others, Sine Mora seems made without a basic understanding of what makes a shmup good: balancing bad tools with bad difficulties can produce a reasonable rate of failure but not a fun game.
My taste in games tends towards Pareto optimality: the best 3D graphics ever seen are not enough with abysmal enemy and bullet patterns, and nice camera and editing work in cutscenes doesn't make them less gratuitous and flow-breaking.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by mamboFoxtrot »

Ixmucane2 wrote:and nice camera and editing work in cutscenes doesn't make them less gratuitous and flow-breaking.
tbh... I wouldn't call the camera-work in the cutscenes good. One of the things that stood out to me when playing this game is how weirdly flat and stiff most of the cutscenes felt. Despite the more modern graphics, I can't say much of it felt anywhere near as cool as some of the cinematography in games like G-Darius, Einhander, Thunderforce V, etc.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Ixmucane2 »

Sine Mora cutscenes aren't particularly good, they are merely better than the seriously bad ones in many other games: they show off the outstanding 3D mecha and the even more outstanding 3D scenery, they make sense, they are more polished and organic than the relatively similar but rough and simple scene transitions in Eschatos (just to compare with an overall much better game) and (at least in the prologue and the first 2 levels) they are acceptably brief.
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XoPachi
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by XoPachi »

A few things about this game that really stuck out to me were the really awful pacing, jarring patterns, and bad contrast.
So many dead moments for failed attempts at atmosphere. So many times I could not distinguish a threat from decoration/background. And so many times a boss would go from braindead to "how in the shit is that supposed to make sense?" I specifically remember the train boss throwing any sort of build up out of the window to toss out these horribly sporadic bullets that, while not the worst to dodge, just kind of generally made me go "ew".
Also, yeah. The music is quite out of place and horribly bland. Sounds like more forgettable AAA nonsense that tries to be epic instead of fitting or memorable. You can have serious, brooding music that's still fun. I know R-Type Final is generally not liked around here, but that had really nice music that I can distinctly recall most of.

(And I'm sorry, the character designs were not doing it for me. I'm a sucker for an anthro cast because I'm big fucking furry, but god these freaks were uncanny and dull. Just overall an extremely unappealing cast.)

I can't be surprised I didn't like this because not once have I put ever "Grasshopper" and "fun" in the same sentence. lol
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Special World
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Special World »

it's bad
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XoPachi
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by XoPachi »

What's this "piano" I'm seeing mentioned?
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

XoPachi wrote:What's this "piano" I'm seeing mentioned?
The dumbest "powerup" in a shmup ever made. Visually it's a dark blue orb with a tiny (barely legible) "???" inside of it that looks like powerup, but collecting it immediately kills you via cutscene death. Apparently on lower difficulties, after it kills you it may also set your credits to 999. That still doesn't make instantly killing you for grabbing a nondescript, random powerup acceptable. Information is sparse, but this instadeath "powerup" orb appears at random as far as we know. Not sure if it can appear once and then never again or if it can appear multiple times in a run sort of thing.

At least in other games with "bad" items to pickup they're obvious about it and have skull and crossbone designs or something similar. In this, it's an attempt at putting in a "funny" easter egg sort of thing, but it's so crudely implemented as a random item (instead of doing something weird and specific in a level to trigger it that's entirely avoidable) that it feels extremely jarring.
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FRO
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by FRO »

I just laughed out loud at work. A terrible thing to include in a game, but still kinda funny.
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XoPachi
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by XoPachi »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:The dumbest "powerup" in a shmup ever made. Visually it's a dark blue orb with a tiny (barely legible) "???" inside of it that looks like powerup, but collecting it immediately kills you via cutscene death. Apparently on lower difficulties, after it kills you it may also set your credits to 999. That still doesn't make instantly killing you for grabbing a nondescript, random powerup acceptable. Information is sparse, but this instadeath "powerup" orb appears at random as far as we know. Not sure if it can appear once and then never again or if it can appear multiple times in a run sort of thing.

At least in other games with "bad" items to pickup they're obvious about it and have skull and crossbone designs or something similar. In this, it's an attempt at putting in a "funny" easter egg sort of thing, but it's so crudely implemented as a random item (instead of doing something weird and specific in a level to trigger it that's entirely avoidable) that it feels extremely jarring.
That's...that's stupid. It looked like a normal pickup. And I remember taking damage only reducing time in this game until hitting zero. That just flat out ends it all. And it just randomly appears? That was literally before the second wave of fighters in the game that appeared.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by dwn_013_crash_man »

Kobayashi wrote:I disagree with 95% of the posts here. In my personal opinion Sine Mora is very good.
Why exactly do you personally think so out of curiosity?
Reason I initially bought it is because oh wow, a new health mechanic with non-human characters? This seems like something a little more different than the usual formula.
But alas, the execution of the concept was about as good as the story (When Raiden V manages to have a more entertaining plot without needing to use an atrocity/war crime? to create a story then you know the plot is weak.).
Besides that controls felt.. eh. Scenery was actually really good imo and stylistic choices in terms of visuals were really pleasing to the eye but that becomes a little ruined by questionable boss movement (especially that stupid crane).
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XoPachi
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by XoPachi »

dwn_013_crash_man wrote:(When Raiden V manages to have a more entertaining plot without needing to use an atrocity/war crime? to create a story then you know the plot is weak.)..
Is that game actually worth getting? I never played it, but the music, anime characters, excessive dialogue from said anime characters, and the in general cinematic take on the series was really offputting from the videos I saw of it. Like reeeaaally offputting.
And it looked dry in a lot of spots.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Austin »

XoPachi wrote:
dwn_013_crash_man wrote:(When Raiden V manages to have a more entertaining plot without needing to use an atrocity/war crime? to create a story then you know the plot is weak.)..
Is that game actually worth getting? I never played it, but the music, anime characters, excessive dialogue from said anime characters, and the in general cinematic take on the series was really offputting from the videos I saw of it. Like reeeaaally offputting.
And it looked dry in a lot of spots.
Fortunately you can turn the voices and text overlays off. It's a good, solid game when you get into a groove with it, but it's certainly a departure from the previous games in the series.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

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Dragonrough43
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Dragonrough43 »

Wanted to add that the leaderboards are broken for at least Arcade on insane. I have beaten Arcade on insane at least 10 times and not a single time did my leaderboard score go up whenever I made it. Some genius literally forgot to add in the command line to update the leaderboard score if you survive. Wouldn’t be surprising if this occurred on other difficulties and game modes, in fact, this might be the famous leaderboard glitch that people refer to (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/20 ... x/76767803). Perhaps this was intentional since you get almost unlimited time on the final boss, but then what is the purpose of leaderboards that won’t record your actual high score?

Honestly, I put almost 200 hours in this game and it was trash from beginning to end. One of the most janky, broken, and unbalanced games that I played in all my time on the 360. I think the game got really good reviews because reviewers didn’t bother to play Arcade much less Arcade on insane and learn about the game’s unbalanced and poorly-thought-out mechanics :|
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XoPachi
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by XoPachi »

Dragonrough43 wrote: Honestly, I put almost 200 hours in this game and it was trash from beginning to end.
WHY
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Rastan78
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by Rastan78 »

A turd with a nice pretty coat of paint on it is still a turd.

Also, if you ever had any faith in mainstream game reviews for classic genres, Sine Mora has a better Metacritic score than Wild Guns Reloaded. For me WG is a 9/10. An example of what other rereleases should aspire to based on an already excellent game. SM is a 5 at best.

The time mechanic did not add to the experience IMO. Devs should've just focused on making a simple, fun and balanced game before trying to attempt something like that.
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Re: Sine Mora...why can't I enjoy it?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Rastan78 wrote:The time mechanic did not add to the experience IMO. Devs should've just focused on making a simple, fun and balanced game before trying to attempt something like that.
This was the same conclusion I had come to. The time mechanic results in silly deaths as a result of time running out because you reach a section without enough time to beat it, all because you either took a hit or failed to kill enough enemies. It's not fun realizing you won't get enough time back to beat a section and avoid a time death even with perfect play, leaving you to consider suiciding or waiting out the clock.

Even with the time mechanic the game could've been a lot better. Its weird power level balancing (where you always feel underwhelming unless you use a rapid fire controller), the strange special abilities that penalize your scoring (unlike Giga Wing and Espgaluda, the shmups where they originally appeared as central scoring mechanics), and poor controls (no slow movement button for arcade stick/d-pad players, movement speed is fast with tight dodging required and the hitbox location is not super intuitive) as well as various other weird design choices stood out from the get-go as amateurish, easily avoided design pitfalls the developers didn't seem to really care about. It was a game where the developers name dropped big names like Battle Garegga as inspiration (probably aesthetic mostly), but didn't seem to have much experience actually playing good arcade games.

Wisp Lisp Array of List was the first known game to really try this sort of time=health mechanics and... it wasn't great there either. It sorta got away with it because it is frankly a weird kind of kusoge caravan game and not a serious shmup by any means.

Time based player deaths are un-fun in general. Good arcade games generally don't make time deaths the primary risk, but rather have time there just to ensure the game has a finite playtime. Capcom beat em ups for instance give very reasonable and generous time limits. The only games I've enjoyed where the main threat is running out of time is arcade racers such as Outrun, where it's implemented in a way that makes sense and doesn't feel inintuitive; speed is encouraged and you have to complete the course above a certain time.

The artwork and game assets in general are absolutely gorgeous though, and it remains one of the best looking shmups ever made from an aesthetic standpoint. It's just a shame that a good game wasn't made with them.
XoPachi wrote:WHY
:lol:
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