Article: The Shmup Review Issue

[Mark_MSX]

Hi everyone,

I've written an article about a subject that's been on my mind for a long time, the problem with shmup reviews in the general gaming media. I do my best to be constructive with this article and I think it will be a useful bit of information, but it does get a little spicy, just a heads up.

Cheers!

--Mark MSX

http://electricunderground.io/the-shmup-review-issue/

[Kollision]

Cool, I'll read that.
a quick question: why not allow readers to post comments so that they can intercat and discuss your articles?

[SynthRicardo]

https://continueonline.wordpress.com/20 ... unpopular/

[GFoyle]

https://continueonline.wordpress.com/20 ... unpopular/

Things mentioned in this one are those, which I also have biggest issue with in shmup reviews.

What comes to quality of life additions, like save points as such, I think those are important thing to mention and add a lot of value, but I still think the game should be evaluated on it's own merits first.

As for input lag, I agree it would be great that it would be taken into consideration and mentioned in a review if it's clearly bad, but it's really subjective how people react to it or even notice the problem. Those Zerodiv ports mentioned have been played by a lot of people who haven't even noticed that something is wrong with the input lag, especially if they are not that skilled in shmups and no prior experience of better version of the game. I have clocked over 15 hours to Strikers 1945 2 on Switch (over 100h in total for the Psikyo ports), and yeah, the input lag is not great but it wasn't huge issue to me until I stared reading comments here about the input lag, and then it started to be issue for me as well (damn you!).

[oso]

As for input lag, I agree it would be great that it would be taken into consideration and mentioned in a review if it's clearly bad, but it's really subjective how people react to it or even notice the problem. Those Zerodiv ports mentioned have been played by a lot of people who haven't even noticed that something is wrong with the input lag, especially if they are not that skilled in shmups and no prior experience of better version of the game. I have clocked over 15 hours to Strikers 1945 2 on Switch (over 100h in total for the Psikyo ports), and yeah, the input lag is not great but it wasn't huge issue to me until I stared reading comments here about the input lag, and then it started to be issue for me as well (damn you!).

100% agree with this. I've played a lot of shooters, both in arcade and at home, and for me input lag definitely doesn't ruin a game unless it's truly exorbitant. The human brain's pretty good at adapting to stuff like that. I think it'd actually scare people away by making input lag a big part of a review for example, probably hurting the shmup genre more. I'm happy that's a thing I can find info on, but also really happy I can only do it on a hardcore shmup forum.

According to my input lag tests, Strikers II on Nintendo Switch is 7 frames of lag with the Pro controller in wireless mode and 8 frames with it plugged into the dock. I’ve never seen an input lag reading so high and this makes the game not even worth playing, even casually.

I think this part is pretty insulting to a lot of current and potential players. It's definitely worth playing, I've played it tons and so have many others and it's still an immensely enjoyable game. In my opinion at the very least.

[Weak Boson]

I think the main issue is when mainstream reviewers just don't understand how to approach shmups: what the basic gameplay loop is and how players progress in them. But if they get that right then I can forgive not including every dry detail of options menus or a comparative history of different ports, though I agree that it is useful information to have out there.

[Mark_MSX]

Cool, I'll read that.
a quick question: why not allow readers to post comments so that they can intercat and discuss your articles?

I do on shmupSTG, I should make that more clear in the articles though. Good suggestion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shmupSTG/comme ... iew_issue/

[Mark_MSX]

I think the main issue is when mainstream reviewers just don't understand how to approach shmups: what the basic gameplay loop is and how players progress in them. But if they get that right then I can forgive not including every dry detail of options menus or a comparative history of different ports, though I agree that it is useful information to have out there.

I agree

[Mark_MSX]

According to my input lag tests, Strikers II on Nintendo Switch is 7 frames of lag with the Pro controller in wireless mode and 8 frames with it plugged into the dock. I’ve never seen an input lag reading so high and this makes the game not even worth playing, even casually.

I think this part is pretty insulting to a lot of current and potential players. It's definitely worth playing, I've played it tons and so have many others and it's still an immensely enjoyable game. In my opinion at the very least.

That's a pretty raw take on my part, I admit. That's how I feel about the port though. I have it on my Switch and don't enjoy the experience at all. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know, especially potential players of the genre. But if other people who own it do enjoy it, that's cool. As a player and as a reviewer maybe I'm more harsh than the average bear. I would suggest either playing other shmups on the Switch or playing Strikers II on other platforms, but sorry if I came off as insulting.

[oso]

According to my input lag tests, Strikers II on Nintendo Switch is 7 frames of lag with the Pro controller in wireless mode and 8 frames with it plugged into the dock. I’ve never seen an input lag reading so high and this makes the game not even worth playing, even casually.

I think this part is pretty insulting to a lot of current and potential players. It's definitely worth playing, I've played it tons and so have many others and it's still an immensely enjoyable game. In my opinion at the very least.

That's a pretty raw take on my part, I admit. That's how I feel about the port though. I have it on my Switch and don't enjoy the experience at all. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know, especially potential players of the genre. But if other people who own it do enjoy it, that's cool. As a player and as a reviewer maybe I'm more harsh than the average bear. I would suggest either playing other shmups on the Switch or playing Strikers II on other platforms, but sorry if I came off as insulting.

That's OK, no offense taken, you're entitled to your opinion. I really just reacted to the way it felt like you said anyone who enjoys that port or reviews it without mentioning that is pretty much an idiot.

Perhaps a solution to get more reviews that match your view is for you to review shmups? You obviously have a set of shmup standards and I'm sure some people (especially hardcore players, like most here) would appreciate the reviews with that angle.

[stryc9]

The Zerodiv ports are really something else. No other console shooters I've played have given me issues like those Psykyo Collection games in terms of lag, and I'm not usually one to complain about it either, so for me there's definitely a serious issue here.

Unfortunately the games nail their coffins shut by looking like shit too, no dot-by-dot display mode is a pretty huge oversight in an age of exemplary STG port work for the 7th and 8th gen. Of course this renders the included scanline option useless. Actually handheld mode looks pretty good despite all this, but docked is just ugly.

I'm glad people have been able to enjoy the ports in spite of these problems - I don't generally enjoy shitting on STG releases but I do feel these Zerodiv offerings are substandard, even with consideration to their price point.

[MameHaze]

I've got friends who have done this kind of work before.

The problem is most of it is done on a commercial basis, you're told to look at the positives, or spin things into positives, avoid negatives, avoid technical terms. If you can find enough positives, add them up. Gloss over anything else or don't mention it - it could be fixed or improved on and pissing off the publisher isn't worth it.

Instead of "the game suffers from heavy input lag making it unplayable" write "the weighty movements of your flying powerhouse provide a real sense of substance and immerse you in the 1940s war scenario as you battle against the odds" etc. Try to spin things into something that fits the narrative.

But yeah, its a BS industry a lot of the time.

[m.sniffles.esq]

If your preferred video game pub isn't reviewing shmups to your liking, submit your own. Nowadays, if it's aimed enough towards casuals (not too technical or nerdy) there's a pretty good chance they'll publish it. Just don't expect to get paid for it...

[Mark_MSX]

I've got friends who have done this kind of work before.

The problem is most of it is done on a commercial basis, you're told to look at the positives, or spin things into positives, avoid negatives, avoid technical terms. If you can find enough positives, add them up. Gloss over anything else or don't mention it - it could be fixed or improved on and pissing off the publisher isn't worth it.

Instead of "the game suffers from heavy input lag making it unplayable" write "the weighty movements of your flying powerhouse provide a real sense of substance and immerse you in the 1940s war scenario as you battle against the odds" etc. Try to spin things into something that fits the narrative.

But yeah, its a BS industry a lot of the time.

That's really interesting to hear. I suspected that would be the case based on the reviews I've been reading. I am actually planning on making this topic an episode of the podcast pretty soon. Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like journalistic integrity kind of goes out of the window if pleasing publishers is affecting the content of a review.

[GFoyle]

The Zerodiv ports are really something else. No other console shooters I've played have given me issues like those Psykyo Collection games in terms of lag, and I'm not usually one to complain about it either, so for me there's definitely a serious issue here.

Unfortunately the games nail their coffins shut by looking like shit too, no dot-by-dot display mode is a pretty huge oversight in an age of exemplary STG port work for the 7th and 8th gen. Of course this renders the included scanline option useless. Actually handheld mode looks pretty good despite all this, but docked is just ugly.

I'm glad people have been able to enjoy the ports in spite of these problems - I don't generally enjoy shitting on STG releases but I do feel these Zerodiv offerings are substandard, even with consideration to their price point.

The thing is that, I think people in the shmup community are generally way more sensitive to this input lag thing compared to average. I know quite a few people who have played these ports and haven't complained or noticed it at all. It's been only in the shmup community, in this forum especially where I have seen this problem to be brought up and described as huge deal.

This dot-by-dot thing is even less of a issue for most, so even if it's huge problem for you, I wouldn't want such things to be made a big problems in a review. These games might not be the best looking out there when docked, but they are not ugly at all (Strikers 1945 plus is very ugly though, but that is not just because of the port).

[Xyga]

IMO, the thing that never clicks with reviews is that most try to achieve a judgement for a global audience, even within a genre niche.

I mean not everyone is looking for the same thing, some enjoy elementary, simple and straightforward shmupping experience (beating the game up to 1 or 2 all whatever), some look for a 'feel/look/sound good' or nostalgia type, some only care about complex refined gameplay, with or without scoring possibilities keeping them busy months or years, etc.

Neither sub-group of players ever acknowledges the other's opinions on game's worth, so attempting consensual review is kind of a ticket to bashing.

If reviews introduced by announcing the colors immediately, and I mean first thing before even talking about the game proper, maybe all those bytes wouldn't go to waste with most readers disagreeing.

e.g just to illustrate maybe tags like the following at the beginning of the reviews;

type of shmup: (old-school arcade stg, 90's console stg, bullet-hell, euroshmup...)
sub-category: (vertical, horizontal, multi, sci-fi, cute, walking, caravan, franchise...)
target audience: (casual, nostalgic, hard games lover, scoring olympics athlete, gfx and sound whore...)
similar games: (accordingly)

And I don't know what else it's just a vague idea. Note the question of difficulty IMHO doesn't deserve tags, because perception and expectations heaviliy depend on the individual player with his own experience, his skills (and honesty lol). No problem if the reviewer mentions he found the game hard or not and compare the difficulty to other games in the review of course, I just mean that ranking games difficulty in advance using tags is kind of pointless since almost everyone will disagree (which is natural)

[qmish]

Cool, I'll read that.
a quick question: why not allow readers to post comments so that they can intercat and discuss your articles?

I do on shmupSTG, I should make that more clear in the articles though. Good suggestion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shmupSTG/comme ... iew_issue/

Reddit close threads after 6 months or smth

While you can comment on that 2010 article or on this forum

[Mark_MSX]

IMO, the thing that never clicks with reviews is that most try to achieve a judgement for a global audience, even within a genre niche.

I mean not everyone is looking for the same thing, some enjoy elementary, simple and straightforward shmupping experience (beating the game up to 1 or 2 all whatever), some look for a 'feel/look/sound good' or nostalgia type, some only care about complex refined gameplay, with or without scoring possibilities keeping them busy months or years, etc.

Neither sub-group of players ever acknowledges the other's opinions on game's worth, so attempting consensual review is kind of a ticket to bashing.

If reviews introduced by announcing the colors immediately, and I mean first thing before even talking about the game proper, maybe all those bytes wouldn't go to waste with most readers disagreeing.

e.g just to illustrate maybe tags like the following at the beginning of the reviews;

type of shmup: (old-school arcade stg, 90's console stg, bullet-hell, euroshmup...)
sub-category: (vertical, horizontal, multi, sci-fi, cute, walking, caravan, franchise...)
target audience: (casual, nostalgic, hard games lover, scoring olympics athlete, gfx and sound whore...)
similar games: (accordingly)

And I don't know what else it's just a vague idea. Note the question of difficulty IMHO doesn't deserve tags, because perception and expectations heaviliy depend on the individual player with his own experience, his skills (and honesty lol). No problem if the reviewer mentions he found the game hard or not and compare the difficulty to other games in the review of course, I just mean that ranking games difficulty in advance using tags is kind of pointless since almost everyone will disagree (which is natural)

I think the tag idea is a really cool concept. I agree that a content of review can vary pretty widely based on the audience it's intended for.

[Xyga]

Same in regards to reviewers (assuming multiple reviewers). I mean something like that somehow reminds a reviewer what he's come to write about.
For instance who's interested in reading a scoring maniac who doesn't care about anything else, write three pages on how worthless and easy a 16bit game is to him ?
(or inversely someone who values high production values and joyride runs, complaining about how a game is all convoluted scoring mechanics but pretty shit in every other field?)

[BobbyNewmarkiii]

How about reviews that say 'it's got no story' like that's a bad thing!!

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I've been writing shmup reviews for a long time.
I usually just stick to looking for what works and what doesn't.

If there are deep scoring mechanics, I throw in a couple paragraphs to explain them, and then one more to say whether or not I think they're any good.
After that it's just a matter of pointing out pros and cons.

Thing is though, I still wouldn't call this an easy genre to review. The only reason it's practically automatic for me is because I've played almost 500 shmups. That's probably a hundred times more than than the average mainstream reviewer. So whenever I talk about an STG's difficulty I have to think "Is this just easy for me, or could this also be easy for everybody." In most cases, the latter never applies. I've seen very-skilled gamers struggle with stage 1 of Gradius.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Three paragraphs describing a scoring system? Perhaps you have a very riveting manner describing scoring mechanics, but my eyes are starting to glaze over just thinking about that.

Personally, I've always opted for "Game employs deep scoring mechanics, involving X, Y, and Z. Thus, giving they player something to consider beyond the obvious test of reflexes. X and Y successfully give the game a strong strategic element, whereas, Z felt a bit superfluous to me."

I feel like that more archives the happy medium of giving the hardcore the info they want without scaring the casual away (or putting them to sleep).

For awhile, I was sort of confounded as to why a game as punishingly difficult as Ikaruga caught on with the casual set. And in a nutshell, the answer I came up with was "lots of good press"

[Xyga]

Sorry to be mr. obvious but I don't hink it's the reviewer that determines how much there is to write about scoring, think cases like;
- does the game feature even a rudimentary scoring system with benefits, or peanuts not worth bothering with
- is it there mainly for points or meant as exploit to support the player (like earning extends, for tlb, second loop, cancelling bullets, whatever)
- does it expand the game experience beyond it's base design (game changer, game-in-a-game, 2 games in 1)
- or is it a game designed around its scoring mechanics before everything anyway (and worthless to play for survival)
- and if it's the latter is it fit for expansive practice and competition/sportshmup
etc
If you know that about a game you know how much of your article you will dedicate to it, again that's no thing the writer should have set rules in advance for.


@sniffles: for ikaruga it might be good press yeah (and availability), but in general imho even complete noobs are attracted to games that were originally made for experienced shmuppers and e-athletes... because they're flashier, more impressive, and most discussed about (inevitable cluster effect in communities of old players who sought increasingly scoring-focused games over time, and younger ones who went directly for those for obvious reasons)