R-Type Final2

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ZaKa-tokyobassist
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ZaKa-tokyobassist »

For me personally I'd put this one right behind Delta. Tbf my barometer was whether this was better than Final 1 or not and for me it misses the mark on a few things but as a whole I like it much more. It's been my most played game this year other than Nier Replicant and Risk of Rain 2. Heck I just unlocked all the possible ships in the current build the other day and still having fun with it.

The post launch support has been pretty good so far and the fact that a SHMUP of all things is getting meaningful post launch content both free and paid gives this some legs and a reason to revisit it often regardless of what kind of player you are.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Samildanach »

ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:For me personally I'd put this one right behind Delta. Tbf my barometer was whether this was better than Final 1 or not and for me it misses the mark on a few things but as a whole I like it much more. It's been my most played game this year other than Nier Replicant and Risk of Rain 2. Heck I just unlocked all the possible ships in the current build the other day and still having fun with it.

The post launch support has been pretty good so far and the fact that a SHMUP of all things is getting meaningful post launch content both free and paid gives this some legs and a reason to revisit it often regardless of what kind of player you are.
Well said. For me, Final 2 tops even Delta. Yes, Delta is clearly the better game, its just I am finding Final 2 so much FUN. Its got the advantage of so much more content to be fair, but Delta is often a cruel mistress. Every level except the first and last rips me a new one in that game. I think I have mental scars from repeatedly trying to beat Delta's stage 5 alone... so well designed... but so very nasty!
I'm looking forward to what they have in store for us with all the upcoming stages. Bring it on!
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by xxx1993 »

I’m just curious as to what Final 3 holds in store for us.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ZaKa-tokyobassist »

xxx1993 wrote:I’m just curious as to what Final 3 holds in store for us.
Aside from 7 new stages, I'd assume some new ships since Final 2 at least account for all the OG ships from Final 1. I'm curious about that second stage pass though. Hopefully we can get something other than just remakes of old levels. Perhaps shmupified versions of missions from Tactics.

One thing they should give a shot with Final 3 is actual branches within levels like in G-Darius. I always thought that was pretty cool and has room for additions like completely different bosses depending the route taken.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by chimpp »

xxx1993 wrote:I’m just curious as to what Final 3 holds in store for us.
Seeing how the logo for R-Type Final 3 is red instead of blue, I think it is just the Bydo side of the story and the addition of the remaining ships in the museum.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by xxx1993 »

Not a sequel to Final 2 story wise?
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Sengoku Strider »

ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:For me personally I'd put this one right behind Delta. Tbf my barometer was whether this was better than Final 1 or not and for me it misses the mark on a few things but as a whole I like it much more.
Okay, but where does Pulstar rate?
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ZaKa-tokyobassist »

Sengoku Strider wrote:
ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:For me personally I'd put this one right behind Delta. Tbf my barometer was whether this was better than Final 1 or not and for me it misses the mark on a few things but as a whole I like it much more.
Okay, but where does Pulstar rate?
No opinion on it. I didn't play much of it to make strong statements about it. I certainly enjoyed what I played more than R-Type 2 and 3 though.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Sengoku Strider »

ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote:
ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:For me personally I'd put this one right behind Delta. Tbf my barometer was whether this was better than Final 1 or not and for me it misses the mark on a few things but as a whole I like it much more.
Okay, but where does Pulstar rate?
No opinion on it. I didn't play much of it to make strong statements about it. I certainly enjoyed what I played more than R-Type 2 and 3 though.
I was playing a bunch of the first R-Type this week as I've never 1cced it, and for a break I started going through all the other horis on my Switch because I didn't feel like flipping the monitor up. Pulstar ended up grabbing me in a way it hadn't before. I've kept coming back to it the last couple of days, and am even leaning towards putting it over R-Type 1. It's hard as balls though, so I haven't gotten anywhere near far enough into it to make that call. But the atmosphere is incredible in spots.

And I definitely think it's similar enough that it's worth dropping the pretence and including it in any R-Type series discussion. Like, they weren't even coy about it:

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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ADM »

Sengoku Strider wrote:And I definitely think it's similar enough that it's worth dropping the pretence and including it in any R-Type series discussion. Like, they weren't even coy about it
According to Wikipedia:
developed by Aicom, a Japanese developer founded by former employees of Irem

Maybe that's common knowledge around here but it was new info to me.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by To Far Away Times »

My thing with Pulstar is that its just a lesser R-Type.

It's not bad at anything. It's perfectly serviceable, but it doesn't have that really great stage design R-Type does, the great music, you can't detach the pod, and the game is too long for what it offers.

It sticks so closely to R-Type that it makes these sorts of comparisons inevitable, and that's a tough act to follow.

Aicom's follow up game, Blazing Star, has it's own identity for the most part, and its a better game for it.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Rastan78 »

That's one of those things that gets repeated a lot, but I've never seen any credits or proof that any member of the Pulstar staff was at Irem. I think it was Die Hard Game Fan that said this first back in the day without citing anything specific and it stuck. Maybe someone has info that can confirm/deny this?

Nazca on the other hand definitely had key Irem staff like Akio, the artist who did the design and graphics for the first R-Type and went on to help create the heavily detailed pixel shading style you see in games like In The Hunt and Metal Slug.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Austin »

Pulstar is great. There are a lot of comparisons to be made to R-Type, but a lot of significant gameplay differences too.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Sengoku Strider »

To Far Away Times wrote:My thing with Pulstar is that its just a lesser R-Type.

It's not bad at anything. It's perfectly serviceable, but it doesn't have that really great stage design R-Type does, the great music, you can't detach the pod, and the game is too long for what it offers.
Aside from the pod thing, I don't know that I'd agree on those points.

The stage design does a lot of things R-Type doesn't - elements like the waterfalls which drag your ship down, making tight spaces more dangerous. Tons more vertical movement, requiring you to get from the top to the bottom of the screen to clear geometry or catch power up drones in time, etc. Elements like moving through water, screens which are half & half making you choose between freedom of movement or better shooting angles. Or the pincers in the image above, which are just static in R-Type. Enemy setups that have you ducking in & out of cover to launch charge shots. Just way better implementation of enemy layouts & hp to make the charge shot a more integral part of the game in general; you can go through most of R-Type without ever using it.

Enemy placements that require creative or precarious use of your weapons, like just on the first stage you come across these guys:

Image

They can only be hit by edging up to the top/bottom of that gap and using your regular shot at full meter - and it's cool there's a meter not just for your charge shot, but implemented for your normal shot as well. I find the game has me thinking about how to approach situations a bit more than R-Type does.

On the subject of music, definitely disagree there. This interview with the composer, Fujita Harumi (who did a ton of work at 80s Capcom - Strider, Final Fight, Mega Man 3, Bionic Commando etc.), says it well:
...of all the music work you’ve done for games, which has been the most memorable for you?


Fujita: That would have to be Pulstar. Of all the game music I’ve written, it’s my favorite. I think I must have put 120% into it, and I really love the song Ankoku Seiun (Dark Nebula).


—Was anything especially challenging about writing the music for Pulstar?


Fujita: During the development, the great Hanshin (Kobe) earthquake struck. All my cabinets toppled over, and my desk broke… thankfully my music equipment was ok, but there was no power, and I couldn’t write anything for some time. Despite this, the development was still proceeding apace in Tokyo, so I couldn’t just drop everything. I saw the city of Kobe burning on the news, and that became my mental image for the music of the fire stage in Pulstar (stage 3).

I remember the thought popped into my head back then, “Why am I making music…?” Wasn’t it the kind of work that would immediately disappear in the face of a natural disaster or war? “Why didn’t I become a nurse”, I asked myself, and at the time I was very depressed.


—Wow, that’s a heavy story… were you not able to get an extension of the deadline for Pulstar, then?


Fujita: It didn’t budge an inch. And shortly after the earthquake, there was the Sarin Gas attack, which I drew inspiration from for stage 6, which has an Indian sound to it...

With everything that was happening in the world then, it really affected me as a composer, and if for no other reason than that, Pulstar became a game that I’ll always remember.
Last edited by Sengoku Strider on Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ZaKa-tokyobassist »

I'll be honest and say I really don't care much for R-Type 2 or 3. I'm more of a fan of the "back half" of the catalogue. The original is still a good time though and Final 1 while flawed has some decent moments in it.
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Re: R-Type Final2

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Sengoku Strider wrote:
I saw the city of Kobe burning on the news, and that became my mental image for the music of the fire stage in Pulstar (stage 3).

I remember the thought popped into my head back then, “Why am I making music…?” Wasn’t it the kind of work that would immediately disappear in the face of a natural disaster or war? “Why didn’t I become a nurse”, I asked myself, and at the time I was very depressed.
Always thought that was an arrestingly intense track. Particularly with the visual juxtaposition of cold space and raging inferno, it always gives me a sense of cosmic ennui. Not surprised to hear of Fujita's mindset at the time. Thanks for posting that! One day I'll read Shmuplations from cover to cover, blackoak has collected so many gems there.
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Re: R-Type Final2

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The additional DLC, "R-Type Final 2 Homage Stage Set 3", will be available on July 9 for PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch, XboxOne and Xbox Series X.

This is the third in a series of homage stages featuring seven selected stages from the past R-Type series, arranged to reflect the taste of R-Type Final 2. Included in this release are the stages from stage 2 of "R-Type Final", stage 4 of "R-Type 2", and stage 1 of "R-Type".

We hope you will enjoy the stages in the style of R-Type Final 2.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Marc »

ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:I'll be honest and say I really don't care much for R-Type 2 or 3. I'm more of a fan of the "back half" of the catalogue. The original is still a good time though and Final 1 while flawed has some decent moments in it.
Yeah agree with that. 3 in particular I found quite tedious last time I played. Delta is still the stand-out for me, but I'm relay looking forward to playing this. It's being held hostage until the 21st of this month :D
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Re: R-Type Final2

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I've been trying to keep up with this thread, but what's the ultimate verdict on the Switch (Lite) experience for this? I downloaded the demo when it dropped and enjoyed but wasn't blown away by it, and thought I'd put the game on my GOG wishlist and wait for a sale (and trust that my borderline CPU/GPU could handle it). But the Switch Lite has been really nice over the course of the pandemic when I haven't been too excited about being tethered to my TV/computer, and the later positive responses in this thread have convinced me the game is worth picking up.

I'm leaning towards the cart version because I'm still uncomfortable with the increasing primacy of digital distribution on recent console generations and what that means in terms of long-term access/preservation, but that's sort of tempered by gigabytes of post-launch updates to make a game playable or fix major performance issues (I'm looking at you, Switcher). One thing I've come to appreciate about the delayed releases from Limited Run is how many of their carts include the various patches/updates that have appeared since the game's release (e.g. the massive update to the Panzer Dragoon remake that makes it much more playable on Switch).

I know there were some early complaints about Switch performance, but it seems like later updates have mitigated this somewhat (load times aside)--is that accurate? And roughly how big have the updates been? Given the "Inaugural Flight Edition" subtitle of the physical release with artbook etc., is it ridiculous to hope for some kind of eventual standard "Mass Production Edition" (or some such) that may contain fixes/DLC on cart/disc? This doesn't seem to be a trend much beyond AAA "Game of the Year" editions, so...

Tl;dr pandemic brain means I can't focus for more than five minutes at a time on writing my dissertation but can expend endless amounts of effort trying to decide which version to buy of a goddamn video game. Are there any compelling performance/feature reasons to avoid it on Switch Lite in favor of GOG (resolution aside)?
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ZaKa-tokyobassist »

Buy the Switch version if you don't have time to commit to sitting down and playing. Also a big benefit is having timely access to DLC or updates playing any console version (they have kind of been shit at supporting the PC version from what I hear since they one is published by NIS not Granzella themselves.)

I play mainly play this on my base PS4 but I doubt this game runs as bad as Disaster Report 4 or Deadly Premonition 2 on Switch. You should be fine with any version you get but each one has a cajust.

I saw you mentioned the Switch port of Panzer Dragoon and funny enough Forever Entertainment just announced mass print physical releases of their remakes through Microids today. LRG stuff isn't even limprint anymore. It's become FOMO bait but its annoying because you never know what is and isn't limited to just them.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DJ Incompetent »

Warp_Rattler wrote:I've been trying to keep up with this thread, but what's the ultimate verdict on the Switch (Lite) experience for this?
It is a great title for portable mode (gooseneck stand + bed + pro controller) if you know how to use the menu features correctly and you get used to the slightly jittery framerate. The best selling point that makes this title superior to most of the series is the double stage count with custom stage course playlists. This means you will need to grab the DLC, unlock the stages, then assign the custom stage courses (5 playlists) in the Score Attack menus before prioritizing ship unlocks to vastly increase the long-term replayability and never experience fatigue.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Warp_Rattler »

ZaKa-tokyobassist wrote:Also a big benefit is having timely access to DLC or updates playing any console version (they have kind of been shit at supporting the PC version from what I hear since they one is published by NIS not Granzella themselves.)
This is really good to know, thanks. There's a tendency for games on GOG to lag behind Steam in terms of getting updates anyway, and if the whole PC platform has been slower than the consoles...
I saw you mentioned the Switch port of Panzer Dragoon and funny enough Forever Entertainment just announced mass print physical releases of their remakes through Microids today. LRG stuff isn't even limprint anymore. It's become FOMO bait but its annoying because you never know what is and isn't limited to just them.
I ended up ordering Panzer Dragoon (and a few other LRG releases, later) from Best Buy, which apparently gets second runs of some LRG titles. And yeah, the FOMO factor is so obnoxious when you just want a physical copy but have to make a purchase decision in such a short window. I've foolishly got money sunk into a copy of Cotton Reboot from Strictly Limited which I preordered back in March or so, thinking that was the only way to secure a physical version. It comes out a few months later that there will be a generally available "standard edition" (I thought I ordered the standard?) by ININ Games through Amazon etc. that will drop next week, the same as the digital release. Meanwhile SLG just quietly pushed their release back AGAIN to September; I would have just waited for the general Amazon release (or just imported) if there was any indication that the super-duper ultra limited SLG release wasn't going to be the only physical version.
DJ Incompetent wrote:The best selling point that makes this title superior to most of the series is the double stage count with custom stage course playlists. This means you will need to grab the DLC, unlock the stages, then assign the custom stage courses (5 playlists) in the Score Attack menus before prioritizing ship unlocks to vastly increase the long-term replayability and never experience fatigue.
It's been a long while since I played the first Final so my memory's fuzzy, but this sounds like there's a bit more strategy to unlocking ships, or at least more possibilities in trying to specifically unlock a particular ship/lineage? Is the DLC required to get all the ship unlocks, or does it just give a bit more variety to the unlocking process?
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by ZaKa-tokyobassist »

Ship unlocks are akin to R-Type Tactics in which you spend resources that level give out to make more ships. This is a good and bad thing. The grind becomes pretty harsh especially in regards to Etherium and the in game shop only sells a finite amount of them. It's not inherently better than Final 1's time based unlocks since that got pain being stuck with ships you might not like for possibly hours just to unlock the next ship and doing it again.

As someone mentioned above, the custom course editor is one of the best features of the game and the DLC levels are compatible with them.

Also no need to worry about DLC ships (for now). At least 99 will be free between the base game and updates including some new ones. It's mainly the stages that cost money and from what we know about the free Final 3 update, it'll basically be another whole 7 stage campaign that's free and may have some other surprises tied to it. It wouldn't surprise me if the game gets another rerelease at a higher price tag with all the content on disc.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BIL wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote:
I saw the city of Kobe burning on the news, and that became my mental image for the music of the fire stage in Pulstar (stage 3).

I remember the thought popped into my head back then, “Why am I making music…?” Wasn’t it the kind of work that would immediately disappear in the face of a natural disaster or war? “Why didn’t I become a nurse”, I asked myself, and at the time I was very depressed.
Always thought that was an arrestingly intense track. Particularly with the visual juxtaposition of cold space and raging inferno, it always gives me a sense of cosmic ennui. Not surprised to hear of Fujita's mindset at the time. Thanks for posting that! One day I'll read Shmuplations from cover to cover, blackoak has collected so many gems there.
Yeah, the music sets a fantastic atmosphere and really is what keeps me going through a lot of stages. I think the second track is fantastic too. I kind of want to track down the Neo CD version to hear the higher fidelity version of the soundtrack.
Warp_Rattler wrote:I've been trying to keep up with this thread, but what's the ultimate verdict on the Switch (Lite) experience for this?

I'm leaning towards the cart version
I have both the Switch and Switch Lite. The Lite is the lowest end performance, with docked being the best. But the standard Switch in handheld mode isn't bad at all imo, minimal differences from docked that I've noticed on the current patch.

Your experience with the Lite will depend 100% on how sensitive to frame rate drops you are. I'm not very, so I don't find that the drops matter. And the game frame skips, so the pacing remains smooth. And it's a fairly slow paced game to begin with, so it won't impact gameplay much if at all. But if it's the kind of thing that makes you twitchy, then the Lite is not for you with this game.
Warp_Rattler wrote:I ended up ordering Panzer Dragoon (and a few other LRG releases, later) from Best Buy, which apparently gets second runs of some LRG titles. And yeah, the FOMO factor is so obnoxious when you just want a physical copy but have to make a purchase decision in such a short window.
Panzer Dragoon was suddenly dropped onto the eShop, digital only, right after a Nintendo Direct. There was no word of a physical, so I just went ahead and got it. At least you got to choose :lol:

And tell me this Saturn style LE isn't sick AF:

Image

That said, the new one from Forever doesn't look too shabby:

Image

Still, Limited Run takes the gold here.

EDIT: I just saw they have a site exclusive edition. I'm not one for geek knick knacks...but I might want/need that crystal statue.

Image
I've foolishly got money sunk into a copy of Cotton Reboot from Strictly Limited which I preordered back in March or so, thinking that was the only way to secure a physical version. It comes out a few months later that there will be a generally available "standard edition" (I thought I ordered the standard?) by ININ Games through Amazon etc. that will drop next week, the same as the digital release. Meanwhile SLG just quietly pushed their release back AGAIN to September; I would have just waited for the general Amazon release (or just imported) if there was any indication that the super-duper ultra limited SLG release wasn't going to be the only physical version.
It could be worse. You could be me who's been sitting on the same thing since last November :?
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by bigbadboaz »

Experiencing the CD soundtrack for Pulstar is an absolute must. The added fidelity really does make a difference - the atmosphere for the second stage is just perfect - and for the first dude who bagged on the music.. well, this will open your eyes and hopefully make the game click for you.

I played the game first as a CD game and it was one of those HOLY SHIT moments in gaming that only happen every few years. Wouldn't have happened if the cart had been more easily obtainable (it was already a $600 game back in 1996) and I'm forever thankful for that.

It's also one of only three or so titles I feel should be played on the CD, and not in ROM format.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DenimDemon »

Is the DLC 3 up on the store?

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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

Japanese streamers got it yesterday. No sign of it in Canada but it will probably be some time today.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Warp_Rattler »

Sengoku Strider wrote:The Lite is the lowest end performance, with docked being the best. But the standard Switch in handheld mode isn't bad at all imo, minimal differences from docked that I've noticed on the current patch.

Your experience with the Lite will depend 100% on how sensitive to frame rate drops you are. I'm not very, so I don't find that the drops matter. And the game frame skips, so the pacing remains smooth. And it's a fairly slow paced game to begin with, so it won't impact gameplay much if at all. But if it's the kind of thing that makes you twitchy, then the Lite is not for you with this game.
I ran through the demo a few more times last night and couldn't notice any changes in the frame rate (though I understand later levels might be a bit more obvious). I'm also pretty used to playing FPS titles on my low-midrange PC where the framerate is all over the place (constant 30FPS is the dream) so it's probably not going to bug me in a non-danmaku game. There were a few moments that felt more "sluggish" than others but I also couldn't say that's not just the usual R-Type "feel."

Decided to just jump on the Switch version because it seems like it'll be good enough (and if nothing else I can wait for a Steam/GOG sale).

Is there a difference in power between the Switch Lite and regular undocked? I had thought they were pretty much the same.
And tell me this Saturn style LE isn't sick AF:
Yeah, that LE was pretty awesome. I didn't have a Switch at the time and was just going to wait for a decent sale on one of the PC stores given the middling reviews that came out, otherwise I would have probably jumped on it. I certainly won't double-dip, but yeah, that statue in that new exclusive edition is definitely on the classier side of limited gaming tchotchkes. I'm liking the cover art a lot more than the version I have, too.
It could be worse. You could be me who's been sitting on the same thing since last November :?
Oof. I think the only reason I haven't been waiting so long is that I spent a few months believing Beep would follow through on the announced Steam version of the game in addition to the consoles. Hopefully September is the last delay.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Klatrymadon »

My Steam copy just updated. Check back if you're waiting for the DLC! This shows up as a separate course from the first batch of DLC stages, so you don't have to play through all of the previous ones to see the new ones. There are some nice curveballs to watch out for, too. (To nitpick slightly, the first stage really serves to drive home how sterile this game looks in comparison to Delta. :P)
Last edited by Klatrymadon on Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DenimDemon »

Switch version is finally updated, like 2 weeks after ps4. Jumping on the dlc as well.

... And nearly throwing my Switch trough the window because of that second boss. I JUST WANT TO PLAY R-TYPE 1 STAGE 1.

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