R-Type Final2

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Despatche
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Despatche »

That discussion sorta happened back when Daifukkatsu was a thing. Some people just plain couldn't stand it, and still cannot. It's not at all surprising CAVE decided to make that specific game, and I doubt Saidaioujou would have ever happened without it.

I just want to point out that Death Stranding is actually a well-regarded game. It's considered to be "polarizing" (and remember that review bombing? woof), but so was Sekiro. Both games are generally considered to be Good by the masses. What the masses like doesn't really matter all that much, but I want to point this out because he was very concerned about it. He brought Death Stranding up repeatedly in his mini-list. Clearly he personally dislikes that game to a deep degree. I'm sorry, I can't help personal likes or dislikes. I say this all the time, but I dislike Garegga a lot! The game drives me insane. I'd never call it anything less than a good game though, because to say so would be blatant lying.
IDruggedShamu wrote:I'm loving this game as well. I'm one of those weirdos that loved everything about the original Final (especially the soundtrack) - and after sinking 40 hrs into Final 2, I still prefer the original.. but I REALLY dig Final 2! Final 1 had this "last call" vibe to it and truly felt like a proper send-off for the series. On the other hand, Final 2 feels like a celebration of the series and I am excited to see what the devs might bring to table. I can't argue that it's not rough around the edges, but holy shit we have a brand-fucking-new R-Type in 2021!
Delta is a genuinely better game, but not to this massive degree as people claim. Final has a lot of the Delta energy in it. It suffers in the audiovisuals, but the audiovisual package of Delta is that kind of near-perfect execution that is almost impossible to pull off. More to the point, I'm not sure you can really make a sequel to Delta much differently than Final. I feel like the only way to make a sequel to that game is to just add more ships. Final seems like they skipped the pretense and added all the ships from the start, instead of making a bunch of games in a row over time. Not a bad idea really.

I just want to point out that I keep getting "someone already posted" messages whenever I try to actually post in this thread. That's a good thing. That means people are talking about the game. Thanks for playing.
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StudioMudprints
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by StudioMudprints »

Our review is processing right now I put in around 30 hours between three versions of the game to draw my final (ha) conclusions. I know it'll get some "WTF" comments for the final scores, but we have our reasons, and we plan on continued coverage as more content is released. For now though, it is what it is and for what it's worth, I really like this game, particularly on PC.
MJR wrote:Youtube reviewers can die in fire for all I care..
Aw... :cry:
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Austin
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Austin »

First impressions on a Xbox One X (not Series X) are not so great. Game has some promise, but there are major framerate issues that suck any sort of enjoyment right out of it. Disappointing.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

StudioMudprints wrote:Our review is processing right now I put in around 30 hours between three versions of the game to draw my final (ha) conclusions. I know it'll get some "WTF" comments for the final scores, but we have our reasons, and we plan on continued coverage as more content is released. For now though, it is what it is and for what it's worth, I really like this game, particularly on PC.
MJR wrote:Youtube reviewers can die in fire for all I care..
Aw... :cry:
I appreciate that you put 30 hours in before making your review. My annoyance was probably directed most to Mark, I don't follow any youtube reviewers because so far everyone has only rubbed me off the wrong way. Last time I even bothered to actively read a game reviews, from any source, was decades ago. You shouldn't mind me.

That Mark seems have backtracked his claim from "inexperienced devs" to "experienced director but inexperienced team" to "Granzellas first game" when people started correcting him. It's embarrassing how he is defending the narrative he has spun in his mind. In fact, inexperienced team would polish the graphics and presentation first, and then try to build the gameplay only to notice that it's too late to fix it. Granzella instead has done the development exactly like veterans would do; put all the resources into gameplay and the most important features first, set all the necessary building blocks, and then polish as long as you can. They are planning to update this for the next two years, so it proves that Mark's comments are his own projections that does not have anything to do with reality or how the game development should even be done. Youtube reviews like this are the prime example why I don't want to even click any links people send in my way.
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MJR
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

Despatche wrote: I dislike Garegga a lot! The game drives me insane. I'd never call it anything less than a good game though, because to say so would be blatant lying.
I know what you mean, I dislike Ikaruga because the game wipes the floor with me, no matter how many hours I put in, and I feel that even tiniest of mistakes destroys all my chances. It's not fun. And I'm even playing the best official version (DC) with Sega's own official joystick pad, which has really good feedback. Yet I still wouldn't argue with anyone who thinks it's a masterpiece. It simply demands things my brain is unable to provide, like all rhythm/timing games.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Herr Schatten »

Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:Either that, or the Arrowhead is deliberately underpowered (I think I'm okay with this).
I got the same impression. I guess they probably didn't actually nerf the Arrowhead, but rather balance the stages around the stronger ships to make those not appear as overpowered in comparison. I'm fine with that, but I'm reconsidering my original plan of not playing with any other ship until I have cleared at least one of the paths with the R-9A. The blue weapon in particular feels very weak and seems to do little damage. In fact, I have yet to find a way to actually destroy the stage 2 boss with it. So far I have always timed out on it. On the other hand, punching things with the force seems to deal a whole lot more damage than it used to in previous games, easily outclassing the R-9A's beam weapon.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by repoman »

I'm in the weird position of not really liking the game but finding it oddly addictive.

Even though I hate grinding games, something I just did in Black Paradox (PS4) and am completely over, there's something about unlocking new ships.

I've unlocked 20 or so ships so far but I found most to be quite useless. Am I right in thinking that the key to success is the tentacle force? Because that seems to be a boss-melter.

Can anyone tell me where the Leo ship is in the Museum please? Also, does anyone have any ship recommendations?

I'm amazed to see people beating the game on R-Typer 3. I'm still struggling with Normal!
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by GFoyle »

Austin wrote:First impressions on a Xbox One X (not Series X) are not so great. Game has some promise, but there are major framerate issues that suck any sort of enjoyment right out of it. Disappointing.
We'll on Series X, the games runs great and I'm pretty sure it's close, if not equal to PC version with 4k picture. Looks really sharp and I didn't notice any slowdown. The only issue I had, was that official xbox one arcade stick don't work with the game (But this is issue with other shmups too, it requires specific implemation to support it). IF you use something like brook stuff, that shouldn't be a issue as those make the controller act like regular xbox controller.

It's unfortunate that they didn't get the game run perfectly on XBox One X.... there really shouldn't any reason not to.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by SPM »

Mark has done and is doing great things for the genre (aside from some out-of-touch criticisms from the casuals perspective), and we all should recognise it. BUT it's also true that lately I've noticed some lackluster videos in an attempt to put out more content. Along with this "in-depth" review, it's also noticeable with other classic games or even modern ones like his Rolling Gunner review where he did not even play with default settings (original mode) and thus not knowing there was a rank system to begin with. This has an easy solution and things will improve naturally over time I'm sure but it's worth pointing out.
StudioMudprints wrote:Our review is processing right now I put in around 30 hours between three versions of the game to draw my final (ha) conclusions. I know it'll get some "WTF" comments for the final scores, but we have our reasons, and we plan on continued coverage as more content is released. For now though, it is what it is and for what it's worth, I really like this game, particularly on PC.
On the other hand, this review was great overall. And I think those small changes you're doing to the format will come a long way on youtube.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

mark's review is fukken ass. it sounds more like he just doesn't like the nature of r-type design rather thAn rtf2 itself
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Icarus »

The problem here is that he's incapable of separating fact from opinion, is terrible at researching information prior to making content, and doesn't take criticism very well.
Which are three strikes against many "content creators", especially ones producing reviews.

In other news, I was playing R-Type Final again last night, and it still holds up very well in both the audiovisual department, and in stage design. I find that out of the two Finals, Final 1 is ahead overall, and amusingly I agree with a few of the peeps commenting in my stream chat that maybe they should have just remastered Final 1 instead lol. But Final 2 is still a decent game, and when the rest of the content is out, it should hopefully be considerably more fleshed out and tidier. (Part of the perk of being a modern game is that they can iterate on it over time.)
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by xxx1993 »

MJR wrote:Youtube reviewers can die in fire for all I care..
This. I'm especially sick and tired of people like The Critical Drinker, Chris Stuckmann, Looper, WatchMojo, Grace Randolph, IGN, and Rossatron. No offense to others like my friend Ser Flash, or the Angry Video Game Nerd, Nostalgia Critic, the Irate Gamer, or Shmup Junkie, though.
Last edited by xxx1993 on Sat May 08, 2021 6:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DenimDemon »

Icarus wrote:The problem here is that he's incapable of separating fact from opinion, is terrible at researching information prior to making content, and doesn't take criticism very well.
Which are three strikes against many "content creators", especially ones producing reviews.

In other news, I was playing R-Type Final again last night, and it still holds up very well in both the audiovisual department, and in stage design. I find that out of the two Finals, Final 1 is ahead overall, and amusingly I agree with a few of the peeps commenting in my stream chat that maybe they should have just remastered Final 1 instead lol. But Final 2 is still a decent game, and when the rest of the content is out, it should hopefully be considerably more fleshed out and tidier. (Part of the perk of being a modern game is that they can iterate on it over time.)
A remaster version of Final 1 would be neat. Imagine booting it up from inside Final 2, just like a collection.

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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Spoiler
His lengthy history of getting easily offended when people disagree with him is likely in part a defense mechanism; he's never shown much interest in actually engaging with the shmups community as an active member. Rather, he wants to cash in on building a persona as an expert on shmups whose opinion is worth paying money for. Currently he's getting paid $400 CAD monthly from his Patreon, not counting likely ad revenue from Youtube. Can't have people disagreeing with you if you wanna keep that subscriber train rolling along.
amusingly I agree with a few of the peeps commenting in my stream chat that maybe they should have just remastered Final 1 instead lol
Even just a straight port that removes some of the slowdown you were mentioning would probably be widely appreciated. I'd argue that a lot of PS2 era games have aged well graphically like Gradius V and could do with a rerelease.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by subcons »

repoman wrote:I've unlocked 20 or so ships so far but I found most to be quite useless. Am I right in thinking that the key to success is the tentacle force? Because that seems to be a boss-melter.

Can anyone tell me where the Leo ship is in the Museum please? Also, does anyone have any ship recommendations?
I’ve been using this guide and it’s quite good:

Tips and Quick Guide for R-Type Final 2

It’s in Spanish, but reads fine when translated in Chrome. Leo II is #17 in the museum BTW.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by VanillaLucia »

I decided to do some digging in the game's files again after hearing that people on the Nintendo Switch could access an unreleased stage and I'll try to mark my findings as a spoiler.
Spoiler
The files for the unreleased stage are present on the PC/Steam version of the game, but there are some strangely named files that don't follow the naming conventions everything else has. There are three songs for the same stage and my guess is that just like the game that did this there will be variations played depending on the choices made in the stage. These three don't seem to be "remixed" in any way and seem to be directly lifted. We already know four of the six stages from the trailer and two of those are already playable with one accidentally released early so this is likely a hint for one of the fifth or sixth stages.

Personally to me, the remixes of the past music is nice but I really feel like Granzella could have benefited from having more people on the music side of things or to have the original music available as well. I really do feel that trying to have music from the past games "remixed" to fit the ambient-esque nature that R-Type Final went with ends up taking away more from the music than adding to them especially in regards to the R-Type III music.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by XoPachi »

How do you get these other stages? :l
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

XoPachi wrote:How do you get these other stages? :l
They're DLC that's not meant to be released until later. Some people having access to these broken and imcomplete stages is just a mistake/glitch essentially. I think people said you need to own the season pass on Switch in order to see these stages, and they're broken so they crash the game, too.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by XoPachi »

MachineAres 1CC wrote:
XoPachi wrote:How do you get these other stages? :l
They're DLC that's not meant to be released until later. Some people having access to these broken and imcomplete stages is just a mistake/glitch essentially. I think people said you need to own the season pass on Switch in order to see these stages, and they're broken so they crash the game, too.
Oh. :y
I thought it was like the first game where you have to do certain triggers at a specific stage.
Like I thought picking up one of those 4...things at the end of the water level changed your route, but I don't know picking them up does.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

Herr Schatten wrote:
Sly Cherry Chunks wrote:Either that, or the Arrowhead is deliberately underpowered (I think I'm okay with this).
I got the same impression. I guess they probably didn't actually nerf the Arrowhead, but rather balance the stages around the stronger ships to make those not appear as overpowered in comparison. I'm fine with that, but I'm reconsidering my original plan of not playing with any other ship until I have cleared at least one of the paths with the R-9A. The blue weapon in particular feels very weak and seems to do little damage. In fact, I have yet to find a way to actually destroy the stage 2 boss with it. So far I have always timed out on it. On the other hand, punching things with the force seems to deal a whole lot more damage than it used to in previous games, easily outclassing the R-9A's beam weapon.
[With Arrowhead] You have a lot of options. I find that grinding + yellow laser works well, maybe moreso than blue. Or just keep the red laser. I haven't tried bombing past this thing yet but that seems like a legit strategy. Charging meter is slow on normal, but I've noticed that most stages have enough stuff to get your meter all the way from 0 to 100%. I bomb past the 5.0 and 6.2 bosses. 7.2 gets a bomb too. Hopefully I'll get the Arrowhead 1CC today.

There's more opportunities for Wiseman showboating in Final 2, nothing is more satisfying than curving a wavecannon backwards against the 2.0 and 6.2 bosses.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

XoPachi wrote:
MachineAres 1CC wrote:
XoPachi wrote:How do you get these other stages? :l
They're DLC that's not meant to be released until later. Some people having access to these broken and imcomplete stages is just a mistake/glitch essentially. I think people said you need to own the season pass on Switch in order to see these stages, and they're broken so they crash the game, too.
Oh. :y
I thought it was like the first game where you have to do certain triggers at a specific stage.
Like I thought picking up one of those 4...things at the end of the water level changed your route, but I don't know picking them up does.
Oh, if you're talking about the 6.1, and 7.1 extra stages, they are related to the pickups in stage 5. The item on the top leads to stage 6.0 and 7.0, the next one down leads to 6.1 and 7.1, the next one down leads to 6.2 and 7.2, and the last one also takes you to 6.0 iirc, or maybe it just randomly picks one of the other ones for you.

Some people here are talking about the extra "homage" stages, which are the unreleased DLC, so not sure which one you were talking about.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DJ Incompetent »

VanillaLucia wrote:I decided to do some digging in the game's files again after hearing that people on the Nintendo Switch could access an unreleased stage and I'll try to mark my findings as a spoiler.
Spoiler
The files for the unreleased stage are present on the PC/Steam version of the game, but there are some strangely named files that don't follow the naming conventions everything else has. There are three songs for the same stage and my guess is that just like the game that did this there will be variations played depending on the choices made in the stage. These three don't seem to be "remixed" in any way and seem to be directly lifted. We already know four of the six stages from the trailer and two of those are already playable with one accidentally released early so this is likely a hint for one of the fifth or sixth stages.

Personally to me, the remixes of the past music is nice but I really feel like Granzella could have benefited from having more people on the music side of things or to have the original music available as well. I really do feel that trying to have music from the past games "remixed" to fit the ambient-esque nature that R-Type Final went with ends up taking away more from the music than adding to them especially in regards to the R-Type III music.
Would me grabbing some handheld video of 3X give you clues to help you data mine? Or has Japan figured it out already and captured some video?

Edit, nevermind. colorboy got you. behold the lels!
After the end of video, if you let the boss sit there a really long time, it will magically teleport to the background of the stage and reverse direction. Then after a long time the boss will time out, the upper left Time Out graphic will appear, then game softlocks as your player gets the zoom-in end-stage shield animation thing.

I don't know why the video jumpcuts. but the whole stage 1 layout as I remember it is represented (it didn't show the white trapezoid where you blow off the section the enemy ships launch from [:28 seconds]). Oddly, those purple ships near the end before the worm, if you don't get them before their purple missile volley, you'll be overwhelmed and die. it was a tough variation of stage one if it is not rebalanced by the next DLC drop.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by VanillaLucia »

DJ Incompetent wrote:Would me grabbing some handheld video of 3X give you clues to help you data mine? Or has Japan figured it out already and captured some video?

Edit, nevermind. colorboy got you. behold the lels!
After the end of video, if you let the boss sit there a really long time, it will magically teleport to the background of the stage and reverse direction. Then after a long time the boss will time out, the upper left Time Out graphic will appear, then game softlocks as your player gets the zoom-in end-stage shield animation thing.

I don't know why the video jumpcuts. but the whole stage 1 layout as I remember it is represented (it didn't show the white trapezoid where you blow off the section the enemy ships launch from [:28 seconds]). Oddly, those purple ships near the end before the worm, if you don't get them before their purple missile volley, you'll be overwhelmed and die. it was a tough variation of stage one if it is not rebalanced by the next DLC drop.
I never actually saw video footage of that, but from what I can tell it looks like the files are already in place for at least the audio. It is very interesting to see, however, even in such a work-in-progress form.
Spoiler
R-Type Delta's first stage is "remixed" but I personally don't quite like the sound of it because it sounds like an incomplete remix so far (several instruments missing, a lot of the more memorable parts of the song are absent, and that sort of thing). I really am hoping this isn't the case but from my earlier digging the R-Type Leo stuff was definitely present during the Switch demo.

For the strange files I was mentioning, I don't exactly want to really name-drop it just yet but it definitely has references to "2_0", "2_1$2_2", and "2_3$2_4" in the file names.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I am curious if we will be seeing the stage and patterns shown in a much older demo of the game (this demo in particular) considering that the song seems to be used as placeholder theme in general. The Switch demo definitely has seemed to refer to the stage music used as "0000_stage_bgm" in general. While it is definitely what we have as Stage 4.0 I would be curious to see alternative versions of these stages especially through development.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Jeneki »

Icarus wrote:he doesn't take criticism very well.
Speaking of which, he just had a glorious meltdown on reddit. I've never been overly critical of his stuff (I usually stick to his organized live play weekends and ignore the rest), but damn. :lol:
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

DJ Incompetent wrote:Edit, nevermind. colorboy got you. behold the lels!
After the end of video, if you let the boss sit there a really long time, it will magically teleport to the background of the stage and reverse direction. Then after a long time the boss will time out, the upper left Time Out graphic will appear, then game softlocks as your player gets the zoom-in end-stage shield animation thing.

I don't know why the video jumpcuts. but the whole stage 1 layout as I remember it is represented (it didn't show the white trapezoid where you blow off the section the enemy ships launch from [:28 seconds]). Oddly, those purple ships near the end before the worm, if you don't get them before their purple missile volley, you'll be overwhelmed and die. it was a tough variation of stage one if it is not rebalanced by the next DLC drop.
Holy hell, is that how bad the ships and enemies normally look on the Switch version? The ship and many of the enemies all appear elsewhere in the normal game, so I don't know why their models would just randomly be all jank just in this stage, but damn that looks really bad.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

Jeneki wrote:
Icarus wrote:he doesn't take criticism very well.
Speaking of which, he just had a glorious meltdown on reddit. I've never been overly critical of his stuff (I usually stick to his organized live play weekends and ignore the rest), but damn. :lol:
Ah, this one

It is probably meant as a response to my reply, which he deleted by the way, where I tried to explain that there are more veteran Irem members on the staff than just Kujo. The team is not n00b in any way.

Now he claims that director of R-type final 2 is not the veteran Kazuma Kujo, but Hiroya Kita. This is quite weird, considering that the end credits of the game state Kujo as the lead game designer and game director, and the booklet that comes with the inaugural flight edition contain Kujo's interview, where he is presented as director. In this interview he also mentions that many veterans from the original games are in this team as well. I don't even know where on earth did he pick up that Kita name, but he is now blaming "fanboys" for looking the Kujo name up from wikipedia... lol

If someone with a reddit account wants to set this poor sod straight, be my quest. But I don't think it will help, he is going to continue acting defensive (and digging himself deeper into the pit). Bit of shame really, if he really has done good things for the shmup genre in the past, as has been mentioned here.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by qmish »

MJR wrote: .

Now he claims that director of R-type final 2 is not the veteran Kazuma Kujo, but Hiroya Kita. This is quite weird, considering that the end credits of the game state Kujo as the lead game designer and game director, and the booklet that comes with the inaugural flight edition contain Kujo's interview, where he is presented as director. In this interview he also mentions that many veterans from the original games are in this team as well. I don't even know where on earth did he pick up that Kita name, but he is now blaming "fanboys" for looking the Kujo name up from wikipedia... lol

If someone with a reddit account wants to set this poor sod straight, be my quest. But I don't think it will help, he is going to continue acting defensive (and digging himself deeper into the pit). Bit of shame really, if he really has done good things for the shmup genre in the past, as has been mentioned here.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstat ... ta/credits

EDIT:


http://shmuplations.com/rtypedelta/

Hiroya Kita – Director
Takayasu Itou – Programmer
Koichi Kita – Designer
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by To Far Away Times »

Got the 1CC last night! 14 hours of sortie time. Mostly unfocused full game attempts with various ships and just trying stuff out. The last 4-5 hours or so were spent on focused Stage Practice. I had a good run, this one was a no miss. Back to having every R-Type game 1CC'd. 8)

I used the R-Leo 2 for stages 1-2 and 6.2-7.2, and the TX-T Eclipse for stages 3-5.

One cool thing to note, the R-Leo 2 gets two bits when you pick up one bit powerup. If you switch ships, the new ship will also now have two bits, so you can power up your bits early with other ships if you really want to. It makes a lot of sense to use the R-Leo 2 or other ships with the Psy Bit in the first stage, regardless of which ship you want to end the game with, unless you're going for a single ship clear.
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DenimDemon
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Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:15 pm

Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DenimDemon »

Are the dlc stages already available for purchase? I don't see them on my PSN store.

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VanillaLucia
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:44 pm

Re: R-Type Final2

Post by VanillaLucia »

DenimDemon wrote:Are the dlc stages already available for purchase? I don't see them on my PSN store.

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Some quick Googling led me to the online store pages which may be of help.

R-Type Final 2: DLC Set 1 ($6.99 USD)
R-Type Final 2 Stage Pass ($19.99 USD)

Only the first pack is available to play right now but the Stage Pass will get you all three packs as the other two release.
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