R-Type Final2

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Zaarock
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Zaarock »

Got the no-miss clear on r-typer 3 difficulty after a couple days of attempts. Sleipnir is pretty good for a cheeky stage 5 no-miss.

This game has grown on me a a lot after the start. Even if its kinda jank and a little unfinished the gameplay is solid and r-typer 3 is nice arcade-level difficulty. Once you have access to the higher difficulties and a decent variety of ships it gets a lot more interesting. The scoring system is good too, it's fun trying to inch out more and more dose on each stage. Especially with the R-13 series since you can do all kinds of fancy tricks with the claw & chain which have real risk/reward.. time to use those ships on more stages instead of cheesy strats :P
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Austin
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Austin »

MachineAres 1CC wrote:Crowdfunding has been found to be largely a scam, unfortunately. A good amount of these game projects that have come from this method of funding have been found to already have plenty of financial backing by a studio or publisher before the crowd campaign was launched, so it's kinda just become a tricky way of getting a lot of preorders, and preorders at 2-10x the actual value of the game. Plenty of these games and projects ended and were never actually fulfilled and never refunded either (see Zoe Quinn, for one) due to a bunch of legality loopholes.

If you read the fine print of anything on crowdfunding sites, in a nutshell it basically says "the owners of this campaign owe you nothing and this does not mean you are a developer of the game or involved in the production in any way, and we only guarantee that you'll eventually get your rewards, nothing else, and dates are subject to change." Essentially just doing everything they can to avoid liability and tell people that these campaigns are just you "donating" your money to the developers like a charity
Can't say I really agree with that. Then again, I've only backed a small handful of projects over the years, so I don't have enough experience to claim "crowdfunding is largely a scam" (That said, I am aware of several trainwrecks that have been popcorn-worthy).

In my own experience the projects I have backed have mostly been positive. The devs/publishers generally had their crap together and the promised rewards came through on time, which is what any backer should want (and expect). Not following through on time obviously isn't the end of the world in the case of R-Type Final 2, but it's still a bad look for Granzella.
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Zach Keene
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Zach Keene »

Ghegs wrote:I'm guessing backers will be getting DLC codes for the homage stages? Looking forward to trying those out, hopefully soon. Do those gives resources as well?
They do. 60 of each type (before the difficulty adjustments).
Firehawke
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Firehawke »

Collected all currently available craft as of tonight.
Spoiler
54
in total. A good bit of grinding-- Etherium is the one thing you don't get nearly enough of, so you pretty much have to grind one specific stage to get ~100-120 each time.
Last edited by Firehawke on Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MJR
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

Austin wrote:
MachineAres 1CC wrote:Crowdfunding has been found to be largely a scam, unfortunately. A good amount of these game projects that have come from this method of funding have been found to already have plenty of financial backing by a studio or publisher before the crowd campaign was launched, so it's kinda just become a tricky way of getting a lot of preorders, and preorders at 2-10x the actual value of the game. Plenty of these games and projects ended and were never actually fulfilled and never refunded either (see Zoe Quinn, for one) due to a bunch of legality loopholes.

If you read the fine print of anything on crowdfunding sites, in a nutshell it basically says "the owners of this campaign owe you nothing and this does not mean you are a developer of the game or involved in the production in any way, and we only guarantee that you'll eventually get your rewards, nothing else, and dates are subject to change." Essentially just doing everything they can to avoid liability and tell people that these campaigns are just you "donating" your money to the developers like a charity
Can't say I really agree with that. Then again, I've only backed a small handful of projects over the years, so I don't have enough experience to claim "crowdfunding is largely a scam" (That said, I am aware of several trainwrecks that have been popcorn-worthy).

In my own experience the projects I have backed have mostly been positive. The devs/publishers generally had their crap together and the promised rewards came through on time, which is what any backer should want (and expect). Not following through on time obviously isn't the end of the world in the case of R-Type Final 2, but it's still a bad look for Granzella.
Same thing here. I've been over dozen kickstarter crowdfundings, and many of them (Elite Dangerous, Kung Fury, Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams, Broken Age, Last Days of Coney Island, Shenmue III, BloodStainded) have been overwhelmingly positive experiences. But then again I am really picky who am I going to crowdfund. There was one experience that did not go so well, and that was the Cans without labels by John K. It took ridiculous amount of time before I got the link for the animation, by that time I had already seen it on youtube. But he did send me the other rewards (I wanted some original drawings and got them)

I've also ran a succesful crowdfunding campaign myself (My 'Journeys into game industry' comic book), and it was very stressful experience as you have to do an insane amount of planning to make sure you get enough funds to create a product to keep enough backers happy, and then finally shipping those rewards is a massive task. And if you fail, your name will be pretty much smeared for good for a long time come. Fortunately, it ended up very well. But I can surely imagine a myriad ways on how crowdfunding campaigns can go wrong for many people, even if they had the best of intentions (and there is always someone who does not have).
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MJR
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

Email just popped in that said voucher codes for Xbox and Switch versions are on the Team R-type website.
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Herr Schatten
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Herr Schatten »

MJR wrote:Email just popped in that said voucher codes for Xbox and Switch versions are on the Team R-type website.
I noticed. Downloading the game as we speak.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Astro City II »

Yep and can confirm it's the digital deluxe version. Game + Season Pass
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qmish
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by qmish »

Sorry to say, but
Spoiler
Looks like Mark_MSX didn't like the game, and unfortunately his huge sheep of followers read (watch) his review as ultimate truth of "bland and subpar game, mediocre attempt" even though he admints he never was much into series or horizontal non-danmakus overall... Expect people spreading that as a plague, instead of playing themselves an deciding on their own if its good or not.

:|

I feel bad about he comparing it to Mighty no 9, though. That's... too extreme.

I respect Electric Underground for pushing shmups into auditory by making quality content, but perhaps he should be a bit more... cautious with review things, as people just misinterpret everything :mrgreen:
And it feels one-sided/unfair, in the end.
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DenimDemon
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DenimDemon »

Well the game is growing on me.

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VanillaLucia
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by VanillaLucia »

qmish wrote:Sorry to say, but
Spoiler
Looks like Mark_MSX didn't like the game, and unfortunately his huge sheep of followers read (watch) his review as ultimate truth of "bland and subpar game, mediocre attempt" even though he admints he never was much into series or horizontal non-danmakus overall... Expect people spreading that as a plague, instead of playing themselves an deciding on their own if its good or not.

:|

I feel bad about he comparing it to Mighty no 9, though. That's... too extreme.

I respect Electric Underground for pushing shmups into auditory by making quality content, but perhaps he should be a bit more... cautious with review things, as people just misinterpret everything :mrgreen:
And it feels one-sided/unfair, in the end.
Honestly my impression of that person's review was the sort of "I never really played R-Type seriously and it's not made by Irem so I'm going to blast it" because they seem fixated on how the game didn't live up to their expectations and seem to be going about glorifying their opinion (as seen in responses in the comments). I would take this with a grain of salt and simply enjoy the game if you are enjoying it as everyone has different tastes and their own takes (after all, it is also YouTube where you live or die by having hot takes that stir up drama and either get so much support for your stance or so much blasting for it).

It maybe one-sided and unfair, but I feel that is unfortunately the problem whenever you decide to devote an audience to a content creator who simply encourages and engages in echo chamber-levels of discourse and discussion.
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qmish
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by qmish »

I miss good old Classic Game Room reviews...

*screaming* truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuxtoooooooooooooooooon!
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mortified_penguin
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by mortified_penguin »

I don't know, I think this game deserves every single ding it gets over the visuals. I'm read-green color blind and I can't tell why I die in stage 4, ever. I'm only 8 hours in and I really want to like the game but the only thing I enjoy is the ship collecting - but then again that material grind ruins that too so, I don't know. This wasn't what I wanted. Just sticking with it because it's a new shooter.
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DietSoap
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by DietSoap »

mortified_penguin wrote: I'm read-green color blind and I can't tell why I die in stage 4, ever.
It took me an embarrassingly long time to realize your force doesn't block the shots from the ceiling/floor turret enemies in stage 4. I kept wondering wtf was killing me. Might not be the issue for you, but just throwing it out there.
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Mischief Maker
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Mischief Maker »

VanillaLucia wrote:
qmish wrote:Sorry to say, but
Spoiler
Looks like Mark_MSX didn't like the game, and unfortunately his huge sheep of followers read (watch) his review as ultimate truth of "bland and subpar game, mediocre attempt" even though he admints he never was much into series or horizontal non-danmakus overall... Expect people spreading that as a plague, instead of playing themselves an deciding on their own if its good or not.

:|

I feel bad about he comparing it to Mighty no 9, though. That's... too extreme.

I respect Electric Underground for pushing shmups into auditory by making quality content, but perhaps he should be a bit more... cautious with review things, as people just misinterpret everything :mrgreen:
And it feels one-sided/unfair, in the end.
Honestly my impression of that person's review was the sort of "I never really played R-Type seriously and it's not made by Irem so I'm going to blast it" because they seem fixated on how the game didn't live up to their expectations and seem to be going about glorifying their opinion (as seen in responses in the comments). I would take this with a grain of salt and simply enjoy the game if you are enjoying it as everyone has different tastes and their own takes (after all, it is also YouTube where you live or die by having hot takes that stir up drama and either get so much support for your stance or so much blasting for it).

It maybe one-sided and unfair, but I feel that is unfortunately the problem whenever you decide to devote an audience to a content creator who simply encourages and engages in echo chamber-levels of discourse and discussion.
Seens like the Serious Sam 4 review debacle all over again. Game doesn't live up to the hype, gets bashed by reviewers, it grows on players who give it a chance despite its flaws, but to this day the forums are choked with said reviewers' angry fanboys.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

It's not even been out for a week yet. It's definitely the sort of game you have to spend time with in order to properly assess, especially if you're not someone who's well versed in the R-Type series or in horizontal shmups of this style in general. Also gotta give the devs time to work out potential bugs in a game with such complex visuals and that's released on so many platforms. I remember when Rolling Gunner's initial Overpower release unintentionally added a bunch of slowdown, but after a month or so a patch was released and all was well. I think it's fair to say you need to give something like this at least a month in the wild before making a serious in-depth review.
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MJR
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

Youtube reviewers can die in fire for all I care..
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Icarus »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:I think it's fair to say you need to give something like this at least a month in the wild before making a serious in-depth review.
Unfortunately this logic is wasted on people who are only doing this to "create content" and "be an influencer". Sadly they also attract people with much louder voices that like to parrot their nonsense across the internet.
When it comes to reviews, I trust my own judgement first, and the opinions of people I know and trust who have similar tastes second. Everything else is just background noise.

Admittedly the game is growing on me a little, but I still maintain that 1. it needed a lot more time in the oven to fix up the audiovisual presentation overall, 2. the stage design is by far the weakest in the series, and 3. you have to play it on R-Typer 3 difficulty to see the game in its true form.
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qmish
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by qmish »

you have to play it on R-Typer 3 difficulty to see the game in its true form.
Is this for veterans, though?

I mean, people like me who are not very good in genre / not enough dedicated, so ofc struggling a bit even on normal.
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Jeneki
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Jeneki »

I don't thing this game needs YouTubers to push it. In some of the more casual areas I frequent (that rarely speak about shmups) people seem to love it and I see lots of recommendations.
Last edited by Jeneki on Thu May 06, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
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Despatche
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Despatche »

The game is good. I can complain about all the ships all day, but I cannot truly take issue with it. It absolutely lived up to whatever hype it had, and I say this as someone who is not some huge R-Type fan. I respect the series for being good games, but it is not on the list of games I greatly enjoy. Final 2 is very much line with previous games. It's clearly better than R-Type III and is probably better than the first Final. Is the game perfect? Obviously not. Very few games could ever be called perfect. But why are we ever expecting perfection? R-Type is not a perfect series. That this game is better than even one other game in a series that is largely good is always an achievement.

But this review by Mark? Oh no. There is nothing "in-depth" about this review. He has crossed the line this time, if he hasn't many times before. Literally all this video is is someone who doesn't like R-Type as a series complaining about R-Type as a series. This is the exact kind of nonsense that goes on in gaming all the time, the kind that really makes me want to start doing videos myself. Unfortunately I am not currently in a position to do so. I hate this so much. Gonna copy what I wrote on the review because noone cares for YouTube comments, especially not text walls.
Spoiler
It's ironic that you make fun of Eurogamer for "not really playing games" when it's very obvious you haven't played any of the games you mention in this video or in the comments, including R-Type Final 2 itself.

Every time you've been called out for claiming Granzella "has no significant experience", an outright lie, you've attempted to compare the game to multiple titles that are actually good. Mighty No.9 is actually a good game, and it also has basically zero Inafune involvement anyway. Death Stranding is a good game, at least within its field, and the majority of people like the game. Devil's Third is a genuine great game that was "criticized" by the same kind of people who criticized classics like God Hand back in the day. But the most rotten comparison on the list has got to be the Shenmue 3 one, a great game that was designed exactly as a Shenmue 3 should be, which we do not deserve whatsoever. I am not a "fan" of any of these games. We have metrics and standards for figuring out whether a game is good or not. You can *dislike* the games all you want, but to call the developers out for some wrongdoing, as you have done here, is itself a great injustice.

You have stated repeatedly that you don't especially care for horizontal shmups, nor for R-Type the series. That is a huge red flag right there. You clearly state that you primarily care about "bullet hell" games and specifically want R-Type to be more like that, even calling it "innovation". This was the exact problem that many shmup developers ran into when Dodonpachi became big; they felt that Dodonpachi had taken over the genre and that there was no real room for anything else ever again.

I just need to call attention to this: you go on and on and on about the developers having no experience, it seems to be so crucial to your point. It's such a tragedy because you are so fundamentally wrong about this that any point that could be drawn from it is itself fundamentally wrong. Never mind that the game is good completely regardless of developer experience.

So much of this just seems to be your personal opinion, with no basis in fact. Great example, all the whining about "trial and error gameplay", a centerpiece to video games (and basically any learned skill ever). Then there's all the whining about "objects blending in", when it's abundantly clear that you're just not paying attention and you immediately move to blame the game for it (like so many do with any game). There's not really a way to challenge any of that. You're claiming to be an authoritative source that is trying to persuade people to touch or not touch games, but you do so only by delivering outright untruths and personal opinion to the table.

Complaining about specific enemies might be the worst part of this video. First there's that blue tank-like enemy; it's a very simple enemy to figure out with no real memorization required. The changes in flight pattern are likely due to rank anyway. Right after that you complain about a boss that has a *very* specific pattern, which you seem to think is so important to good design. The lasers always start in the same place and always rotate to the same place, and the laser attack is clearly telegraphed by the core "plugging in" to the laser cannons. Is it sort of a "gotcha" the first time? Maybe... like the overwhelming majority of bosses and situations put into any video game that has ever been made (especially those repeatedly called "good")... I guess... The only issue I've seen with this boss is that it did not fire the lasers the *first* time when it was supposed to, and I have never seen it do that since, so it might be a rank thing, or a small bug that I doubt anyone else has seen, or possibly even the environment I used to run the game (as is so often the case with PC games). Then after this, you complain about a boss that doesn't have any sort of "phases" and is clearly meant to be speedkilled, and fighting bosses from behind is common in R-Type and R-Type-like games because you can shoot behind you. It's, gasp,*variety*! Shock! Bonus points for actually suggesting that people time out the stage 2 boss, which is really hard to do unless you deliberately refuse to fight it.

Speaking of points, you absolutely 100% can make a game focused on scoring regardless of what its survival is like, because how people feel about both scoring and survival is heavily opinionated anyway, and because *the focus on heavy scoring systems came about as a result of those bullet hell games you love so much*.

You also make strange claims about *other* games that are simply untrue. Leo actually has checkpoints and is otherwise an R-Type game in design, just with some very superficial changes to mechanics and aesthetics. It's really not very different at all. fundamentally. Nor is ImageFight or X Multiply, which are more or less R-Type spinoffs (something R-Type Final canonized even).

I'm not even sure where to begin with the "euroshmup" nonsense. Absolutely nothing in this game even remotely resembles that strand of design, which is filled with things like enemies being almost unkillable, literally undodgeable attacks, needing to buy equipment just to handle any situation somewhat okay, etc; R-Type Final 2 has absolutely none of this. Your complaint about "being able to stay in one place and shoot" is, at worst, an R-Type series issue; it is completely possible to beat multiple games in the series using nothing but your Force, your regular shot, and your charge shot, and I believe at least one game (Delta?) can be done with absolutely zero shooting. *I could be wrong about that, I am pulling this from my own research and I may have forgotten details.* But I have the decency to actually tell people that.

Then you attempt to call the Final games something besides "mainline", simply because they don't have numbers in the title. That is especially heinous. R-Type Final 2 is a better game than at least R-Type III, and it may actually be a better game than the first Final. That's already extremely good in a series which is like 95% good anyway.

All the complaining about the game through the lens of the Switch version is particularly heinous, never mind that multiple people have reported that the claims made here aren't really true. The biggest issue with the Switch version right now is the load times between deaths, and that's probably something that can't be helped.

*But the absolute most heinous bit of this video, the lynchpin of your entire argument, has to be the Sine Mora comparison. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about here. The two games have nothing to do with each other. R-Type Final 2 is operating on a level so far above something like Sine Mora that it is genuinely insulting to make that comparison.*

I'm sorry this comment is so disorganized. This video is so unbelievably rotten to the core that I cannot help but be angry, and this is doubly frustrating as it'll just lead people to calling me an "R-Type fanboy", regardless of my personal attachment to the series (there's not a lot of it, I prefer vertical games usually). You don't have to be a fanboy to see through the lies of this nonsensical video. It is plain as day to anyone with any minor experience with this genre, or at the very least this series. It is so deeply upsetting to me that so many people are willing to believe this lie, with the only possible endgoal being to see this developer shuttered and R-Type shelved once again, despite them having made a great game that deserves great sales numbers.

Indeed, you will notice that I have not mentioned my opinion once here. That's because how I feel about the game doesn't matter. What matters is this: if you're going to actually going to criticize something, you need to have your facts in order. If the game was actually bad, your claim at the beginning that you feel "trapped" would have merit. The game is good, therefore your claim is bogus. You're not being honest. The only honesty in this video whatsoever is that you dislike the game. I'm sorry that you dislike the game! But it's incredibly wrong to drag a clearly good game and its clearly good developers through the mud because you just so happen to personally dislike it.

This is nothing more than someone who doesn't like R-Type complaining about him not liking R-Type and holding the developers responsible, as if they've harmed the gaming world in some way. I would like to believe that you're better than this. Please try to do better.
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slateman
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by slateman »

I love this game.

That it's so similar to Final 1 is a draw for me, though it suffers from some of the same issues as its predecessor. Sure, stage 3.0 is kinda hideous. It's slow in some areas and the opening hours were a bit of a chore. But it's so much fun exploring all these ships again. Bits, missiles, force orbs. Unlocking new ships feels so rewarding. Grinding for resources kinda sucks. But flying 2 hours as Hades to get Charon in Final 1 sucked too. At least now you can grind however you want and you can do it in practice mode on individual stages and different difficulties too. I quite like that.

Several pages ago some ppl went over how to get to alternate later stages. I think it works this way (for reference).
Spoiler
Towards the end of level 5, a unique ship will appear. After defeating it, four colored orbs will stand before you. The stage you proceed to after 5.0 depends on which you collect. Collect the appropriate color to decide which iteration of stage 6 will appear after you complete 5.0.

Moving from top to bottom:
Pink Orb will bring you to 6.0
Orange Orb will bring you to 6.1
Green Orbwill bring you to 6.2
Grey Orb will bring you to (6.2?)
Collecting No Orb will bring you to 6.2
The fact that backers didn't get codes for a full week after release is terrible though. If you can mass-produce a physical game, you can email codes out. That's just straight-up BS.
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Icarus wrote:Unfortunately this logic is wasted on people who are only doing this to "create content" and "be an influencer".
I am in 100% agreement with you here, and yeah, I suppose I'm preaching to the choir. Can't get that sweet, sweet ad revenue from clicks unless you keep churning out "content" and keep promoting yourself as a self-styled guru on the subject.
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Despatche
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Despatche »

If he was actually speaking the truth about anything, it would almost be fine. He isn't. He's talking pure nonsense, and not just about R-Type Final 2. It's the same quality as some garbage HG101 writeup. We have way too many HG101 clones, so called "hardcore" people who have no real knowledge of the topic; we need less of that, not more.
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Rastan78
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Rastan78 »

IMO anything that is based on 4 to 5 hours of gameplay should be labeled as "impressions" or something like that instead of a review.
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MJR
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by MJR »

Despatche wrote:The game is good. I can complain about all the ships all day, but I cannot truly take issue with it. It absolutely lived up to whatever hype it had, and I say this as someone who is not some huge R-Type fan. I respect the series for being good games, but it is not on the list of games I greatly enjoy. Final 2 is very much line with previous games. It's clearly better than R-Type III and is probably better than the first Final. Is the game perfect? Obviously not. Very few games could ever be called perfect. But why are we ever expecting perfection? R-Type is not a perfect series. That this game is better than even one other game in a series that is largely good is always an achievement.

But this review by Mark? Oh no. There is nothing "in-depth" about this review. He has crossed the line this time, if he hasn't many times before. Literally all this video is is someone who doesn't like R-Type as a series complaining about R-Type as a series. This is the exact kind of nonsense that goes on in gaming all the time, the kind that really makes me want to start doing videos myself. Unfortunately I am not currently in a position to do so. I hate this so much. Gonna copy what I wrote on the review because noone cares for YouTube comments, especially not text walls.
Spoiler
It's ironic that you make fun of Eurogamer for "not really playing games" when it's very obvious you haven't played any of the games you mention in this video or in the comments, including R-Type Final 2 itself.

Every time you've been called out for claiming Granzella "has no significant experience", an outright lie, you've attempted to compare the game to multiple titles that are actually good. Mighty No.9 is actually a good game, and it also has basically zero Inafune involvement anyway. Death Stranding is a good game, at least within its field, and the majority of people like the game. Devil's Third is a genuine great game that was "criticized" by the same kind of people who criticized classics like God Hand back in the day. But the most rotten comparison on the list has got to be the Shenmue 3 one, a great game that was designed exactly as a Shenmue 3 should be, which we do not deserve whatsoever. I am not a "fan" of any of these games. We have metrics and standards for figuring out whether a game is good or not. You can *dislike* the games all you want, but to call the developers out for some wrongdoing, as you have done here, is itself a great injustice.

You have stated repeatedly that you don't especially care for horizontal shmups, nor for R-Type the series. That is a huge red flag right there. You clearly state that you primarily care about "bullet hell" games and specifically want R-Type to be more like that, even calling it "innovation". This was the exact problem that many shmup developers ran into when Dodonpachi became big; they felt that Dodonpachi had taken over the genre and that there was no real room for anything else ever again.

I just need to call attention to this: you go on and on and on about the developers having no experience, it seems to be so crucial to your point. It's such a tragedy because you are so fundamentally wrong about this that any point that could be drawn from it is itself fundamentally wrong. Never mind that the game is good completely regardless of developer experience.

So much of this just seems to be your personal opinion, with no basis in fact. Great example, all the whining about "trial and error gameplay", a centerpiece to video games (and basically any learned skill ever). Then there's all the whining about "objects blending in", when it's abundantly clear that you're just not paying attention and you immediately move to blame the game for it (like so many do with any game). There's not really a way to challenge any of that. You're claiming to be an authoritative source that is trying to persuade people to touch or not touch games, but you do so only by delivering outright untruths and personal opinion to the table.

Complaining about specific enemies might be the worst part of this video. First there's that blue tank-like enemy; it's a very simple enemy to figure out with no real memorization required. The changes in flight pattern are likely due to rank anyway. Right after that you complain about a boss that has a *very* specific pattern, which you seem to think is so important to good design. The lasers always start in the same place and always rotate to the same place, and the laser attack is clearly telegraphed by the core "plugging in" to the laser cannons. Is it sort of a "gotcha" the first time? Maybe... like the overwhelming majority of bosses and situations put into any video game that has ever been made (especially those repeatedly called "good")... I guess... The only issue I've seen with this boss is that it did not fire the lasers the *first* time when it was supposed to, and I have never seen it do that since, so it might be a rank thing, or a small bug that I doubt anyone else has seen, or possibly even the environment I used to run the game (as is so often the case with PC games). Then after this, you complain about a boss that doesn't have any sort of "phases" and is clearly meant to be speedkilled, and fighting bosses from behind is common in R-Type and R-Type-like games because you can shoot behind you. It's, gasp,*variety*! Shock! Bonus points for actually suggesting that people time out the stage 2 boss, which is really hard to do unless you deliberately refuse to fight it.

Speaking of points, you absolutely 100% can make a game focused on scoring regardless of what its survival is like, because how people feel about both scoring and survival is heavily opinionated anyway, and because *the focus on heavy scoring systems came about as a result of those bullet hell games you love so much*.

You also make strange claims about *other* games that are simply untrue. Leo actually has checkpoints and is otherwise an R-Type game in design, just with some very superficial changes to mechanics and aesthetics. It's really not very different at all. fundamentally. Nor is ImageFight or X Multiply, which are more or less R-Type spinoffs (something R-Type Final canonized even).

I'm not even sure where to begin with the "euroshmup" nonsense. Absolutely nothing in this game even remotely resembles that strand of design, which is filled with things like enemies being almost unkillable, literally undodgeable attacks, needing to buy equipment just to handle any situation somewhat okay, etc; R-Type Final 2 has absolutely none of this. Your complaint about "being able to stay in one place and shoot" is, at worst, an R-Type series issue; it is completely possible to beat multiple games in the series using nothing but your Force, your regular shot, and your charge shot, and I believe at least one game (Delta?) can be done with absolutely zero shooting. *I could be wrong about that, I am pulling this from my own research and I may have forgotten details.* But I have the decency to actually tell people that.

Then you attempt to call the Final games something besides "mainline", simply because they don't have numbers in the title. That is especially heinous. R-Type Final 2 is a better game than at least R-Type III, and it may actually be a better game than the first Final. That's already extremely good in a series which is like 95% good anyway.

All the complaining about the game through the lens of the Switch version is particularly heinous, never mind that multiple people have reported that the claims made here aren't really true. The biggest issue with the Switch version right now is the load times between deaths, and that's probably something that can't be helped.

*But the absolute most heinous bit of this video, the lynchpin of your entire argument, has to be the Sine Mora comparison. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about here. The two games have nothing to do with each other. R-Type Final 2 is operating on a level so far above something like Sine Mora that it is genuinely insulting to make that comparison.*

I'm sorry this comment is so disorganized. This video is so unbelievably rotten to the core that I cannot help but be angry, and this is doubly frustrating as it'll just lead people to calling me an "R-Type fanboy", regardless of my personal attachment to the series (there's not a lot of it, I prefer vertical games usually). You don't have to be a fanboy to see through the lies of this nonsensical video. It is plain as day to anyone with any minor experience with this genre, or at the very least this series. It is so deeply upsetting to me that so many people are willing to believe this lie, with the only possible endgoal being to see this developer shuttered and R-Type shelved once again, despite them having made a great game that deserves great sales numbers.

Indeed, you will notice that I have not mentioned my opinion once here. That's because how I feel about the game doesn't matter. What matters is this: if you're going to actually going to criticize something, you need to have your facts in order. If the game was actually bad, your claim at the beginning that you feel "trapped" would have merit. The game is good, therefore your claim is bogus. You're not being honest. The only honesty in this video whatsoever is that you dislike the game. I'm sorry that you dislike the game! But it's incredibly wrong to drag a clearly good game and its clearly good developers through the mud because you just so happen to personally dislike it.

This is nothing more than someone who doesn't like R-Type complaining about him not liking R-Type and holding the developers responsible, as if they've harmed the gaming world in some way. I would like to believe that you're better than this. Please try to do better.
Good writeup. It says something that this little Marky Mark was not even able to respond to your criticisms of his "review", instead he just called you a bully in his reply. It shows that you managed to hit a nerve, since he immediately attacked your persona rather than trying to engage any conversation.
John4300
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by John4300 »

Spoilers about splitting paths here.
Spoiler
About the orbs on 5.0, there are 4 orbs but just 3 paths. The developers have said that they are going to update the game, maybe there could be a possibility of extra path for the fourth orb in a patch or DLC? Unless it's in some other way tied to the gameplay obviously. Not collecting an orb could also have a future extra path tied to it. This is all just speculations however.
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IDruggedShamu
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by IDruggedShamu »

I'm loving this game as well. I'm one of those weirdos that loved everything about the original Final (especially the soundtrack) - and after sinking 40 hrs into Final 2, I still prefer the original.. but I REALLY dig Final 2! Final 1 had this "last call" vibe to it and truly felt like a proper send-off for the series. On the other hand, Final 2 feels like a celebration of the series and I am excited to see what the devs might bring to table. I can't argue that it's not rough around the edges, but holy shit we have a brand-fucking-new R-Type in 2021!
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Icarus
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by Icarus »

R-Typer 3 difficulty no-missed, 6.2/7.2 route. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5c8NGVcaMM
Single ship runs, and routing the other stage branches are next.
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VanillaLucia
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Re: R-Type Final2

Post by VanillaLucia »

MJR wrote:Good writeup. It says something that this little Marky Mark was not even able to respond to your criticisms of his "review", instead he just called you a bully in his reply. It shows that you managed to hit a nerve, since he immediately attacked your persona rather than trying to engage any conversation.
Original Response Quoted:
Spoiler
"Sorry homie this isn t the forum, go back to bullying and harassing new players, or maybe do yourself a favor and seek some help."
I was curious and was watching his responses and on top of people going "this is why I don't like R-Type" or "I'm so glad you said this because I returned the game" and the sort of thing I really do have the impression this is effectively a child with a hot take who is busy looking for likes and attention (the sort of things that makes YouTubers thrive) and as a result validation on his hot takes by appealing to people who are swayed or like-minded.

Their insistence that Granzella never made a shoot'em up before and "only" the director was a veteran who knew what he was doing is silly and misguided. I don't quite know what they are expecting out of a franchise they didn't like but yet are so confident in connecting webs to similar games like as if they're some sort of authority on what ought to be and what ought not to be. You can even peek at the credits between the games that do have credits (R-Type Delta to R-Type Final up to the R-Type Tactics games and even to R-Type Final 2) and realize that it's a lot of the same people. I can definitely accept the argument that compared to other Unreal Engine games Granzella "could have" used more expertise in game development and game design to make things more solid (or especially something more modern-day like adopting things like AGILE to keep up with the times) but at some point these are all just good ideas on paper that don't quite translate one-to-one to meaning you have a good game. In the same reasoning I mentioned with people being heldover in the credits, you also have a very similar situation for games like Devil's Third, Death Stranding, and Mighty No. 9 (all games he cited as having the same problem where you can have a "good director" and simultaneously a bad newbie team who's inexperienced). If you paid attention to any of the people involved, I feel it's ignorant to not see that those games were developed and handled by people who have made those sorts of games before (ex-Team Ninja staff left and banded together for Devil's Third, ex-Kojima Productions staff left together to make Death Stranding, and Mighty No. 9 was simply spearheaded by Keiji Inafune but the actual game was co-developed by Inti Creates who also created the more recent Megaman games). If this was such a big deal to not give "new" studios a pass because they're riding on the coattails of their legacy, is it unfair to think the same of Raiden III-Raiden V because of MOSS not being "Seibu Kaihatsu" in name, or to even look at CAVE's legacy considering them jumping from Toaplan?

It definitely looks like the comments on that YouTube video are what you would expect of an echo chamber (support the views of the person making the video unless you want to have your comments ignored/deleted or to be called names) and there are definitely already some silly pride jokes like "We don't take kindly to those with differing opinions in these parts" which I feel completely destroys the ability to have a discussion. R-Type Final 2 is definitely not a perfect game but say for example if Konami suddenly steps up with a new Gradius, if CAVE for some reason came up with a brand new DoDonPachi, or something else miraculous happens just like that I can imagine seeing this discussion we are all having looping and repeating because the newest game is different enough to not be the old games and because the old games have already had their time to bake and shine.

And again, because I mentioned in the last time I responded, I feel this is definitely one of the major drawbacks to YouTube in general when you have a "reviewer" who expertly presents their information and and parodies others to deliver their point. General viewers will probably watch because they want entertainment and likely won't think twice, the people who want their opinions to be validated will gobble up anything they can, and the people who feel attacked will end up fanning the flames for a discussion that often is one-sided (as in what are the chances this person will just make an R-Type Leo video just to have a "positive review" just to say he played the games and to further fan the flames on what a good game is?).

I feel if it weren't YouTube and instead were something like being able to sit in a room with others and play the game together to observe each other the discussion and the points made could be handled very differently. As it is, this person simply gives me the impression of "look at how elite I am because I play these other games and this one game isn't like them or the one that I was able to tolerate" and his behavior in the comments of his video further cements it when you can see that his general responses are essentially high-fiving people who are simply agreeing with him. If that quote I shared is an example of how one treats someone who disagrees with them, I feel that's all you would ever need to know for how this person would behave or deal with conflict.
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