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 Post subject: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:31 pm 



Joined: 12 Feb 2019
Posts: 3
I'm fairly new to shmups. I ignored the genre for a long time, then I discovered Blazing Lazers a few months ago, and since then I've been playing anything I can get my hands on. Now I'm getting ready to build up a well-curated collection of vertical shmups, and as I learn more about what's available on consoles, it seems that many (most?) of the 16-bit and later games are arcade ports.

Is there any reason to emulate console versions instead of arcade versions? Or in addition to the arcade versions? Maybe there are enhancements to specific games that make it worthwhile?

Also, are there any worthwhile arcade shmups that need something other than MAME to run? Are there any CHD arcade shmups that are worth playing?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:07 pm 


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PC Engine Salamander is basically a bugfixed version of the original.

I highly recommend giving these two threads a read:
16-Bit Arcade Port Archaeology
arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

As for your other question, NAOMI games still don't run well in MAME, so you'll want DEMUL for Giga Wing 2 and other Dreamcast shooters. I think Radiant Silvergun and other ST-V titles might also run better in Mednafen than they do in MAME, but it's been a while.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:08 pm 


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Generally speaking, no.


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:36 pm 


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Sometimes there are significant differences between the arcade version and the console port. Sometimes they're entirely different games under the same name (e.g. Gradius III SNES), sometimes they're ostensibly the same game but with changes (e.g. Parodius Da! Saturn/PS1 with its removal of slowdown, tweaked rank, and inflated scoring), sometimes they have extra gameplay options/modes (e.g. Radiant Silvergun). Aside from actual differences, sometimes MAME has issues with the arcade version that console emulators don't. I've encountered this with Sexy Parodius and TwinBee Yahho, where certain background layers don't render in MAME but PS1 and PSP emulators don't have a problem.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:07 pm 


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Arrange modes are usually a lot of fun. Look them up.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:19 pm 



Joined: 12 Feb 2019
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Thanks for all the great input.

I think my approach will be to continue exploring via MAME, then as I narrow my list down and find games I really enjoy, I can begin to explore any ports of those games that might exist.

So far I'm very fond of Compile, Toaplan, and Psikyo - seems like a great place to start!


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:37 am 


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In all seriousness, I really think there's value in console ports, and even looking into them today. If all you're looking for is the best version of a game, with a few exceptions, that's probably not the case, and you're maybe better off going for MAME for most stuff. But I think there's value in exploring various home conversions, especially because they sometimes change up the way a game plays enough (intentionally or not) to where it becomes a unique experience, and in and of itself, can be fun to play. That's just me, and I get a kick out of seeing how different hardware can interpret (good or bad) a game from a different source.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:23 am 



Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 47
Console arcade ports that I can recommend:

- Fire Shark for Genesis/Mega Drive(I feel the Genesis port sounds better on a model 1 Genesis, but you'll have to deal with the cropped aspect ratio and slightly downgraded graphics).
- Raiden DX for Japanese PS1 (Lot's of options and additions to the arcade version of Raiden II/DX).
- Hyper Duel for Saturn (Saturn Mode with updated graphics).
- Batsugun for Saturn (Saturn Special Mode)
- Qix Neo for PS1 (not your traditional shooter, but I'm including it anyways, updated graphics from it's arcade counter-part Volfied).
- Life Force for NES (this version is different enough from both arcade versions of Salamander/Life Force that it may warrant a look, more for interest than anything).

There are tons of great original shooters on consoles, but not very many superior ports of arcade games to console.


Last edited by Craft_XIII on Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:24 am 



Joined: 27 Aug 2016
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FRO wrote:
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In all seriousness, I really think there's value in console ports, and even looking into them today. If all you're looking for is the best version of a game, with a few exceptions, that's probably not the case, and you're maybe better off going for MAME for most stuff. But I think there's value in exploring various home conversions, especially because they sometimes change up the way a game plays enough (intentionally or not) to where it becomes a unique experience, and in and of itself, can be fun to play. That's just me, and I get a kick out of seeing how different hardware can interpret (good or bad) a game from a different source.


Agree 100%


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:37 am 


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One thing to consider about console ports (mostly from the 8 and 16-bit eras) is that they tend to be easier than their arcade counterparts. If you're new to the genre you might eventually start to tire of the constant ass-kicking you will be constantly receiving and will want something more manageable. The bonus to that is some ports from back in the day are improved to one degree or another in console form. For instance, I find the Genesis and PC Engine ports of Twin Cobra have more appealing soundtracks than the arcade original. Others may have spruced up visuals or extra content (like Gradius on the PCE).

Don't discount console-exclusives either. There are countless made-for-console shooters that are fantastic and you certainly don't want to be missing out on those.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:21 am 


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I could see there being cases where emulating the console port of a game could be worthwhile, most of the time probably because of extra modes or something. Who knows though, with the rate Xbox 360 emulation has come along in the last little while, it might end up being that the later CAVE releases could perform better on 360 emulator than the official steam releases (like how DFK and Deathsmiles are missing slowdown on Steam).

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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:05 am 


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Console ports are not only those of arcade games, but also ports from other consoles and computers. So via pretty good emulation, you can easily get a taste of nuances like Star Force for the NES varying greatly from the Famicom port, remade - rather than ported - Chelnov for Mega Drive vs (word is) pretty exact Sharp X68k port vs leaked Saturn port and so on. Whether there's a reason to emulate any port, it depends on the reason why you play those games at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:14 pm 


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Definitely research console versions if you find something in MAME that you particularly enjoy. Sometimes discovering extra modes can really make an old favorite feel fresh and new again. I also know emulators give you instant access to thousands of games, with hundreds of greats, but I'd also encourage finding a couple favorites and really putting time into them-- shmups are one of those genres where a good game gets better and better the more you learn it and discover the ins and outs.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:29 pm 



Joined: 12 Feb 2019
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I just have to say, I'm amazed and impressed by this forum. I come in out of nowhere with a very broad and slightly ignorant question, and I get a thread full of well-considered, and often passionate responses. That's a rare thing these days.

Maybe it has something to do with the type of personality it takes to get invested in shmups. Lots of like-minded people here sharing a common interest.

Very cool :)


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:08 am 


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I think it's safe to say that amiable inquiries warrant amiable responses.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:22 am 


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Austin wrote:
One thing to consider about console ports (mostly from the 8 and 16-bit eras) is that they tend to be easier than their arcade counterparts. If you're new to the genre you might eventually start to tire of the constant ass-kicking you will be constantly receiving and will want something more manageable. The bonus to that is some ports from back in the day are improved to one degree or another in console form. For instance, I find the Genesis and PC Engine ports of Twin Cobra have more appealing soundtracks than the arcade original. Others may have spruced up visuals or extra content (like Gradius on the PCE).

Don't discount console-exclusives either. There are countless made-for-console shooters that are fantastic and you certainly don't want to be missing out on those.


Agree with all of this. Sometimes, depending on your mood/motivations, it's better to pick an easier game that's more relaxing to play than it is stressful.

Expanding on Toaplan port OSTs, you absolutely need to try Tatsujin PCE and Zero Wing MD if you haven't yet. Both of those add really great drum tracks, where the arcade originals had none. I also like Daisenpu PCE's BGM better than the arcade.

Salamander FC/Life Force NES is more of an Arrange+ mode, but several dev houses were doing that sort of thing in the 8-bit days since the FC/NES couldn't really handle straight ports of the more modern arcade games. It's a really neat slice of gaming history and most of those games turned out fantastically (Life Force included).


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:15 am 



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Consoles tend to be easier to emulate accurately, though that's not always the case.

the OP was asking emulate console vs emulate arcade.

It's pointless to say run namco arcade packs on an emulated ps1 when you can just emulate the original arcade games (though it's worth playing them on a real ps1).

But when it' s a quality port, or a quality non arcade accurate port, then it's worth emulating.

An example of a highly accurate console port is ESPGALUDA for ps2. and of course there's the arrange mode. if it emulates well on a ps2 emulator, it's worth emulating the ps2 version (i don't know for sure if this is true)


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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:46 am 


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zaphod wrote:
It's pointless to say run namco arcade packs on an emulated ps1 when you can just emulate the original arcade games (though it's worth playing them on a real ps1).

It's been a long, long time since I tried playing Baraduke on MAME, but it lagged HORRIBLY there (3-4 frames, if memory serves), whereas Namco Museum version played on a PS2 felt much more responsive to me. Whether input delay on MAME was accurate re-creation of the real PCB's, or it was a weird inadequacy, I suppose Namco Museum's one would still play better on humble ePSXe back then. If MAME fares no better than it used to in this particular case, I say go play emulated Namco Museum vol. 5's version instead.
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 Post subject: Re: Any reason to emulate console ports?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:42 pm 


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zaphod wrote:
It's pointless to say run namco arcade packs on an emulated ps1 when you can just emulate the original arcade games (though it's worth playing them on a real ps1).

But when it' s a quality port, or a quality non arcade accurate port, then it's worth emulating.

Namco Museum ports seem to have a bunch of little differences that make them interesting... been meaning to research those better. Most later Namco Museum products are based on these ports, but of course the original PS1 series is the most comprehensive. There are also some Namco Museum products that have original games like Xevious Resurrection and the 2005 Pac-Man Arrangement.

There is always more research to be done into conversions and ports. Not just for shmups either, but also for fighting games and such.
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