M2 ShotTriggers: ESP rade

[GFoyle]

Okay, bought the PS4 version too and tried them back and fort on same TV (both using hori "native" arcade stick, no adapters used).

The Switch version input lag is basically as good as it get's on that machine (just estimate, no fact), but yeah, if I play with that first and then jump into PS4 with same character, PS4 feels a bit more responsive, so I guess there is that 1-2 frames difference there, which is kinda expected (compared Switch docked using stick via usb). Still the Switch version is as good as the best one out there (Rolling Gunner, Thunder Force 4 etc.) so I'm super happy about that and glad for all Switch owners who want to have this game.

That being said, IMO Switch version looks better than the PS4 version, more crisp with exact same settings. I think probably might be because my PS4 pro is now up scaling to that 3840x2160 resolution and the result just looks less sharp (even in esprade screen settings, the scaling now defaults 0673% / 0673% on PS4 and on Switch that same setting, scaling is up to 0337% / 0337%)

Anyway, if you have both machines, want it just for one of them and do not have preference which one, then I guess PS4 version if the way to go if as optimal input lag there can be is important for you vs. possibility for handheld play.

[Bassa-Bassa]

It's bad news for Switch owners, though? With that, it'd be confirmed that the system will always perform worse than any other current system in this regard (or even the now old X360?), given that M2 usually tries harder than any other dev?

[Martinov]

Any early opinions on the new game modes?

[GFoyle]

It's bad news for Switch owners, though? With that, it'd be confirmed that the system will always perform worse than any other current system in this regard (or even the now old X360?), given that M2 usually tries harder than any other dev?

We'll it's not really news anymore that Switch (OS, not the hardware I presume) has some inherit extra input lag and affects also games like Smash. It's also common that Switch, being less powerful, doesn't have that high level graphics and performance compared to other systems (it's handheld so it's expected). It does have that hybrid aspect, which other consoles do not have and makes it my favorite console of this generation, even with some of it's flaws. I hope that Nintendo will improve this aspect in next generation of Switch (if there will be one).

I personally think there is some certain threshold when the lag starts to be a real problem, affecting game play, making it more difficult etc. For this game, the input lag doesn't feel any worse on Switch than something like SDOJ or Akai Katana on X360 and is definitely under that problem threshold. It's really responsible, controls are accurate and you feel in control. The fact that on PS4 it's even slightly more so doesn't make Switch version bad, any more than another car being faster than yours, doesn't make yours bad (unless it's a race).

[GFoyle]

Any early opinions on the new game modes?

Super easy was as before with other shot trigger release, even child can beat it on 1 credit I think. I only died once in the boss and that was only because I loosed concentration.

I don't know much about the "Arcade plus" except that you can play with the 4th character (after you have unlocked it by beating the game once, probably any mode is fine for that). It didn't feel that different from Arcade, but I'm not a skilled player to notice those easily either. That new 4th character was cool though.

[RGC]

Any idea if they've added an option to reduce the boss timeout?

[third_strike]

Any idea if they've added an option to reduce the boss timeout?

Why would they do that?
Boss time in this game seems fine.

[Jonpachi]

Argh, despite two emails to Play-Asia, and their reassurance they wouldn't, they still shipped it to my old address...

[ATTRACTS]

There's always the possibility of using an arcade stick with the Switch too. Brook UFB supports it for example, so you could use the same stick as you do on your PS4.

Yeah def an option but I’ve experienced lag that way and would rather just main over on the PS4. This purchase was just to support the cause and have the game for some quick plane/train sessions. My message was just a heads up to anyone debating one over the other. The port is solid, but your efforts (if you want to play aggressively might be hampered if you only have a Joy Cons/Pro controller to go with.

How much lag? Enough to make a big difference?

I mean, the Switch already has enough lag to be annoying in my opinion for shmups so any added lag on top of that would be a deal breaker. I tried it with Pysvariar and Gunbird, Sengoku Aces/Blade and I immediately stopped. It's fine if you are playing just to play and credit feed but if you are looking to score and graze on the higher levels, forget about it.

[Wittischism]

Well, unexpectedly double dipped. My LE Switch version is arriving via fed ex within a day or so. I checked my jp psn account and must have gotten a bigger card than I remember, from having picked up Sorcer Striker. Still had 6000 yen in my account, so now I have the best of both worlds. I have a brook stick that works with ps4 and switch but I only play switch in handheld mode lately. The dock is not even hooked to my tv anymore lol I have more time to play off screen nowadays, but when I can, I know what I’ll be playing. More than happy to show love to M2 right now. Also have some Hori Joy con split pros on the way for that.

[scrilla4rella]

My copy's already in Ohio (needs to get to Northern California). Amazon Japan sure does ship it out fast.

Yay for market concentration and economies of scale, i guess...

[the androgyne]

I have my copy and here's a quick Google Translate of the options. It may be off in places but it seems about right. I'll edit/remove later on if someone posts a proper one!

Main Settings Screen:
- Whether the game has Alice Master/New Visuals/Sounds
- Game Difficulty
- Extend Settings: The one without value is "no extend"
- No. of Players/Lives
- Auto Barrier: Off/On using 1/4 gauge
- Hitbox size: Normal, Slightly Smaller, Smaller, Significantly Smaller
- Circle Max Setting: The values are initial followed by increment. This relates to how many powerups you need to collect before you start getting Barrier refill items.
- Stage Order: Choose a fixed order for the stages. http://www.world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Es ... ecrets.htm mentions the way order is normally decided

System Settings:
- Lag reduction
- Replay auto registration
- Auto start (auto start last selected game mode without going through titles/menus)
- Play side setting at startup

Other Settings:
- Power Shot Full Auto: When on, shoot in small increments by holding down the power shot button
- Sound Effects during demo
- Allow continues
- Automatic skip at startup: Skips the notation, if set to off, any button will skip.
- Ending skip: When on, ending can be skipped with any button
- Multiplier counter display: Shows the multiplier on the screen without having to use the cheat code
- Quick restart setting: Before/After machine select
- Boss health state change: On shows when a state change occurs in the gauge at top of screen.
- Reproduce sound of arcade board
- Time limit for player select: 9s/99s
- Show the player's hitbox
- System voice setting: Auto, Male voice, Female voice, Yusuke Sagami, J-B5th, Iori Mimasaka, Alice Master, Satoru Oumi, Mrs. Gara
- Reset voice volume: Low, Medium, Loud, Very Loud
It says this does something like "Set the system voice when reset is on *Doesn't change in arcade mode". Not entirely sure what "reset is on" means.

Screen Settings:
- Screen Rotation
- Simple Preset
- Screen Size Type: Fit/Dot by dot/Manual
- Screen Size Setting
- Smoothing Setting
- Scanline Setting
- Wallpaper Setting

[el_rika]

If someone could post a picture with each character's hitbox (default size), it'd be great.
Esprade is, i think, unique in terms of how hitboxes shift when you move (tap) the characters.

[the androgyne]

I'll try and sort that out later. I think like Ketsui, the hitbox size adjustment isn't actually represented visibly anyway, the indicator always looks the same. It's around their lower back is all I can recall right now.

[Zaarock]

The hitbox doesn't stay consistent to parts of the sprite during movement animations like Irori moving left / right. The hitbox is a little to the left of her neck (and center of sprite) when moving right. Maybe the easiest hitbox to get used to is J-B 5th since it's always in the same relative position to his head.

If you do small taps those animations dont occur much. Combine that with the massive slowdown and there's some weird incentive to micrododge all the time instead of using unfocused. Playing Yusuke seems to reduce slowdown compared to all the others because of his simple main shot.

[Kiken]

I mean, the Switch already has enough lag to be annoying in my opinion for shmups so any added lag on top of that would be a deal breaker. I tried it with Pysvariar and Gunbird, Sengoku Aces/Blade and I immediately stopped. It's fine if you are playing just to play and credit feed but if you are looking to score and graze on the higher levels, forget about it.

That's not a hardware issue though.. it's a software issue. The Psikyo stuff has really noticeable input lag... except for Zero Gunner 2-, which is fairly responsive (maybe since it was specifically developed for the Switch instead of being a port using some sort of middleware...?). Raiden V, Caladrius Blaze, SEGA AGES TF4, Xeno Crisis and the SNES NSO are all pretty responsive. In general, I've found that all the ACA stuff by Hamster and the Psikyo arcade classics have very noticeable input lag.



And then there's Shikhondo... which is laggy on everything.

[GFoyle]

That's not a hardware issue though.. it's a software issue. The Psikyo stuff has really noticeable input lag... except for Zero Gunner 2-, which is fairly responsive (maybe since it was specifically developed for the Switch instead of being a port using some sort of middleware...?). Raiden V, Caladrius Blaze, SEGA AGES TF4, Xeno Crisis and the SNES NSO are all pretty responsive. In general, I've found that all the ACA stuff by Hamster and the Psikyo arcade classics have very noticeable input lag.

I think Strikers 1999 is actually maybe one frame better than the other Zerodiv ports though, at least it feels slightly more responsive. Strikers 1942 2 is on the other hand probably 1 frame worse than other others. ACA from Hamsters I think are generally 1 frame better than Zerodiv port average. It's noticeable, but I still feel those are fun and playable enough to be worth it (maybe not that great for more serious play / goals). I hope that Nintendo would improve that Switch OS related input lag by 1 frame as it would bring them to the same level as other consoles in most cases (or super close to).

I also agreed with a lot of the above, Caladrius, TF4, Jamestown, Rolling Gunner and ESP ra.de especially good example of shmups which do not have input lag problem (and not the only ones).

I have one brook adapter (PS4 -> Switch), I have to do some extra testing to see do I really notice difference if I use it with my PS4 stick compared to my native Switch arcade stick (I got the adapter so I would have way to play co-op / vs arcade games on Switch, both players using sticks). Maybe it adds one frame as some claim and that can make a clear difference if the game already has medium to bad input lag without it.

[ATTRACTS]

I mean, the Switch already has enough lag to be annoying in my opinion for shmups so any added lag on top of that would be a deal breaker. I tried it with Pysvariar and Gunbird, Sengoku Aces/Blade and I immediately stopped. It's fine if you are playing just to play and credit feed but if you are looking to score and graze on the higher levels, forget about it.

That's not a hardware issue though.. it's a software issue. The Psikyo stuff has really noticeable input lag... except for Zero Gunner 2-, which is fairly responsive (maybe since it was specifically developed for the Switch instead of being a port using some sort of middleware...?). Raiden V, Caladrius Blaze, SEGA AGES TF4, Xeno Crisis and the SNES NSO are all pretty responsive. In general, I've found that all the ACA stuff by Hamster and the Psikyo arcade classics have very noticeable input lag.



And then there's Shikhondo... which is laggy on everything.

My point is, if you are trying to play Esp Ra.De and have any sort of success dodging patterns etc./close up scoring the Switch is not the place to do it. "Pretty responsive" minus inherent lag from a controller adaptor = a casual play experience. Most of us on here I'm guessing would opt for better performance and when you break down either software lag, hardware adaptor lag or, if you don't have an adaptor/stick, the horrid Joy Con/Pro controls, this isn't the platform for true shmup performance. Just my two cents and I was hoping to steer someone who might be on the fence deciding between the two.

[Wittischism]

Mine arrived just now from play asia via fed ex. Came with the strategy guide, outside of the LE box. Already been playing it on ps4 but ready to take it on the go, too.

[GFoyle]

My point is, if you are trying to play Esp Ra.De and have any sort of success dodging patterns etc./close up scoring the Switch is not the place to do it. "Pretty responsive" minus inherent lag from a controller adaptor = a casual play experience. Most of us on here I'm guessing would opt for better performance and when you break down either software lag, hardware adaptor lag or, if you don't have an adaptor/stick, the horrid Joy Con/Pro controls, this isn't the platform for true shmup performance. Just my two cents and I was hoping to steer someone who might be on the fence deciding between the two.

So you have experience of the Switch version ESPrade to do such claims? All other games you mentioned initially outside Psyvariar are known to have not so optimal input lag and this is not just because of Switch as other games have clearly lower than those Psikyo ports.

I'm not a especially good player, but I don't have issue with controls in this game on Switch any more than on PS4. I'm able to dodge those last boss patterns just fine (for my skill level, which is not that great).

[ATTRACTS]

My point is, if you are trying to play Esp Ra.De and have any sort of success dodging patterns etc./close up scoring the Switch is not the place to do it. "Pretty responsive" minus inherent lag from a controller adaptor = a casual play experience. Most of us on here I'm guessing would opt for better performance and when you break down either software lag, hardware adaptor lag or, if you don't have an adaptor/stick, the horrid Joy Con/Pro controls, this isn't the platform for true shmup performance. Just my two cents and I was hoping to steer someone who might be on the fence deciding between the two.

So you have experience of the Switch version ESPrade to do such claims? All other games you mentioned initially outside Psyvariar are known to have not so optimal input lag and this is not just because of Switch as other games have clearly lower than those Psikyo ports.

I'm not a especially good player, but I don't have issue with controls in this game on Switch any more than on PS4. I'm able to dodge those last boss patterns just fine (for my skill level, which is not that great).

I've been playing it since the hour it was released on both systems.
Along with: Psyvariar, the entire Psikyo roster thus far, Ikaruga, Darius Cozmic Collection LE, Devil Engine, Rolling Gunner, Danmaku 3 and just about every other shmup released on the Switch. The Joy Cons/Pro Controllers suck, end of story. You like them and get by? Awesome. My comments are for players seeking to play for high scores/best run throughs. I was simply relaying what I thought about Esp. on the Switch vs. the PS4 because I hoped it might help someone make a decision instead of buying something blindly and feeling burned. Moving right along.

[XtraSmiley]

What is the "lag reduction" option mean? How does that work?

Also, any other word on a US/English release?

I think if it's coming, I'll get the Western release and hold off opening my Japanese version. Don't mind buying two to support M2, but I DOOOO want to play it soon..

[CloudyMusic]

What is the "lag reduction" option mean? How does that work?

From the way they describe it, it sounds like the game is ordinarily intended to run as accurately to the PCB as possible, including whatever lag was native to the PCB version. Turning the lag reduction on will take some steps to reduce the internal input delay (via unspecified means) below PCB levels. They frame it as something that you should use if you have additional lag from your console/TV setup, but there's really no reason not to just always use it, as far as I can tell.

[Zeether]

As far as a Western release goes, there were English trophies added to the PS4 version. That could be a good sign (probably LimitedScalperGames getting it which hopefully also means digital too), but I have no idea if any previous ShotTriggers releases have them. https://www.exophase.com/game/esp-ra-de ... /trophies/

Meanwhile I'm still waiting on Ketsui Deathtiny...

[kuze]

Crazy fast shipping from Amazon Japan, the game reached me in only 42 hours after shipping. Even faster than EMS and it only cost 1100 yen.

The 'super easy' mode is definitely aptly named, as someone else said already it was easy for me to 1cc on my first attempt. I'm not sure if a 1cc is required to unlock Alice, but that was certainly a quick and easy method for the unlock.

The Drive Waves 2019 soundtrack option is fantastic, they really did a great job with it. My only complaint is I think it should have been included with the original OST in the LE version. Apparently it will be on sale separately in the near future.

M2 has done a great job with the port, the abundance of options is amazing and they did well minimizing lag on the Switch IMO. I hope Espgaluda eventually gets the same treatment.

[XtraSmiley]

Another kudos to Amazon Japan, great shipping, great price!

Also, they sent it packaged VERY well, much better than PlayAsia does, and the cardboard is that cool cardboard that comes only from Japan... hmm, maybe I can re-fold it and sell as authentic CAVE cardboard for a few $$$$

[GFoyle]

I've been playing it since the hour it was released on both systems.
Along with: Psyvariar, the entire Psikyo roster thus far, Ikaruga, Darius Cozmic Collection LE, Devil Engine, Rolling Gunner, Danmaku 3 and just about every other shmup released on the Switch. The Joy Cons/Pro Controllers suck, end of story. You like them and get by? Awesome. My comments are for players seeking to play for high scores/best run throughs. I was simply relaying what I thought about Esp. on the Switch vs. the PS4 because I hoped it might help someone make a decision instead of buying something blindly and feeling burned. Moving right along.

On Switch, I play shmups primarily with arcade stick (RAPV for Switch) but lately also with hori split pad pro, which has nice dpad for handheld play and occasionally also with 8bitdo M30 and Retrobit's Saturn style controller (2,4 one). Al those work really well. Joy cons and pro controller are far from optimal for shmups because the lack of good dpads and I only use those in shmups when playing super casually. I wish there would be good controller option for flip-grip though, but there isn't really and that's why I haven't even bought flip-grip myself.

I doubt good player would have any problems getting great scores on the Switch version of ESPrade assuming he/she has a good controller for it, the version is that good IMO. Anyway, I would recommend the PS4 version to anyone who have both options and to whom handheld play is no importance. Getting both is even better!

[Wittischism]

I've been playing it since the hour it was released on both systems.
Along with: Psyvariar, the entire Psikyo roster thus far, Ikaruga, Darius Cozmic Collection LE, Devil Engine, Rolling Gunner, Danmaku 3 and just about every other shmup released on the Switch. The Joy Cons/Pro Controllers suck, end of story. You like them and get by? Awesome. My comments are for players seeking to play for high scores/best run throughs. I was simply relaying what I thought about Esp. on the Switch vs. the PS4 because I hoped it might help someone make a decision instead of buying something blindly and feeling burned. Moving right along.

On Switch, I play shmups primarily with arcade stick (RAPV for Switch) but lately also with hori split pad pro, which has nice dpad for handheld play and occasionally also with 8bitdo M30 and Retrobit's Saturn style controller (2,4 one). Al those work really well. Joy cons and pro controller are far from optimal for shmups because the lack of good dpads and I only use those in shmups when playing super casually. I wish there would be good controller option for flip-grip though, but there isn't really and that's why I haven't even bought flip-grip myself.

I doubt good player would have any problems getting great scores on the Switch version of ESPrade assuming he/she has a good controller for it, the version is that good IMO. Anyway, I would recommend the PS4 version to anyone who have both options and to whom handheld play is no importance. Getting both is even better!

For games other than stgs, how are the sticks on the split pad pro? I have one on the way and am looking forward to using it. I only play handheld mode, and rumble and the nfc are of no interest to me. My standard joycons are starting to give me issues sometimes, so its time for an upgrade lol

[Jonpachi]

I've been playing it since the hour it was released on both systems.
Along with: Psyvariar, the entire Psikyo roster thus far, Ikaruga, Darius Cozmic Collection LE, Devil Engine, Rolling Gunner, Danmaku 3 and just about every other shmup released on the Switch. The Joy Cons/Pro Controllers suck, end of story. You like them and get by? Awesome. My comments are for players seeking to play for high scores/best run throughs. I was simply relaying what I thought about Esp. on the Switch vs. the PS4 because I hoped it might help someone make a decision instead of buying something blindly and feeling burned. Moving right along.

On Switch, I play shmups primarily with arcade stick (RAPV for Switch) but lately also with hori split pad pro, which has nice dpad for handheld play and occasionally also with 8bitdo M30 and Retrobit's Saturn style controller (2,4 one). Al those work really well. Joy cons and pro controller are far from optimal for shmups because the lack of good dpads and I only use those in shmups when playing super casually. I wish there would be good controller option for flip-grip though, but there isn't really and that's why I haven't even bought flip-grip myself.

I doubt good player would have any problems getting great scores on the Switch version of ESPrade assuming he/she has a good controller for it, the version is that good IMO. Anyway, I would recommend the PS4 version to anyone who have both options and to whom handheld play is no importance. Getting both is even better!

For games other than stgs, how are the sticks on the split pad pro? I have one on the way and am looking forward to using it. I only play handheld mode, and rumble and the nfc are of no interest to me. My standard joycons are starting to give me issues sometimes, so its time for an upgrade lol

I have a Split Pad Pro and use it all the time. The analog sticks have more play than a PS4 controller, meaning that the "spring" is not as tight. For most games I find them quite responsive, but I would imagine that something like a competitive FPS game would be somewhat frustrating to be perfectly accurate in. That said, I tend to use the stick over the d-pad in most 2D games, even though the d-pad is pretty nice.

[StarCreator]

I'm so, so bad at this game but super easy was indeed an easy 1CC even playing in portable mode, and doing it unlocked Alice Master for seemingly all modes she's supposed to be available in.

I think they were a little too generous with autobombs still taking minimal energy drain and buffing energy recharges to an extreme.