Need help making a video to introduce friends to the genre.

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Regdren C.
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Need help making a video to introduce friends to the genre.

Post by Regdren C. »

Hello! Here's the background: I've played some shmups here and there and enjoy the genre greatly. And I have some online friends who I watch streaming Nioh or whatever else and I mention shmups or bullet hell. The reaction I tend to get is if whether I'm talking about first person shooters. I did some Youtube searches and couldn't find the kind of raw beginner's video that I was looking for, so I decided that it was up to me.

The footage itself is not especially a problem. I have enough games and enough skill to pretend that I'm good at playing them so I can cover my sales pitch with various games and visual examples. However, I could use some help with the script. The pinch I'm facing the most is that I want to talk about how replaying to refine routes and improve score is really satisfying but also emphasize that playing casually is also fine and can be fun on its own. Also of course there's the usual bind of conveying lots of ideas but not making the script so long that it loses the viewer's interest.

Edit: removed the script text because the video is up! Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBJxLYIih7M

Edit 2: second video on moving to dedicated play is here: https://youtu.be/MFFRqCLGGUw
Last edited by Regdren C. on Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Craft_XIII
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Craft_XIII »

This was a fun read for me. I always find it interesting how other fans of the genre approach/explain it.

I like the idea of this project. However, much like I once tried to do with getting my friends to recognize the importance and depth that is classic Hip-Hop, and how to decipher the slang that at first may sound like non-sense, most people simply won't give a shit. Until that day they do. But you can't make that day come faster, and you can't choose who it's gonna be. You can only be there when it happens and support them with your knowledge.

Also, if your friends are mostly online friends that you're trying to convince, why not just become more active here? You've got a whole community who doesn't need convincing. You can simply get down to brass tacks.

Personally, I found the part in your script about pattern memorization interesting, it kind of shed a light on my own approach to the genre. I have never intentionally sat down and tried to memorize portions of a shooter. I've never even watched a strategy video or anything like that(probably more to do with my age than anything else). I'm not against that approch, I just simply have never had the urge. For me, shooters are all about the moment to moment action. Living and dying in the moment, dodging one bullet at a time. Of course if I stick with a single game long enough, I'll learn general ideas of where I should or shouldn't position myself and general attack patterns. But seldom do any two of my runs look the same, not even close. Granted, I've never 1CC anything, nor do I desire to. Yet my enjoyment level remains amazingly high. Bit by bit I DO end up getting better and organically learn more about the game and its scoring systems. But I've always had this bit of silly pride in the fact my runs never look mechanical or pre-rehearsed. Which is kinda dumb, because my opponent(a computer program) is hard wired to act a certain way in certain situations. And the easiest way to "beat" the opponent would be to learn about it's patterns and react optimally. But... I prefer to react within the moment instead of premeditate. It's probably an adrenaline rush thing.

Thinking about this made me realize why I may like Zanac and Zanac Neo so much with their "random" nature. The randomness/bullet speed of these games and some of the early classic Toaplan games really put me into a state of bliss. I may never see all the stages in most shooters, but that journey is so raw and visceral I simply don't care.
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Shepardus
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Shepardus »

I'm not sure whether you intend this video to be for your friends or for a more general audience, but if it's the former, it sounds too impersonal to me to hold my interest, more like an untargeted sales pitch or a lecture than something a friend would say to me. I don't think a video would be the right approach for that, you'd want to take greater advantage of the fact that friends like sharing and doing things with each other.

Assuming you're targeting a more general audience, however, I think a video would be fine. With the amount of stuff you're trying to cover, though, I think a series of short and focused videos would hold people's attention better than a single long video, and allow them to bite off the pieces they want to chew at the moment rather than have the entire meal shoved down their throats at once.

Overall I think the script is too wordy and essay-like, rather than conversational or presentation-like. Since this is to be a video, the visuals should show much of the message, and the narration should be short and to the point - I would say not much more than you would put on a PowerPoint slide, unless you've got great storytelling abilities.

I haven't had the time to go through this whole thing in detail, but as an example let's take the paragraph about choosing an audiovisual style you like:
If you’re interested in playing these kinds of games, I have some advice for those who have not really settled on a 2d shooter yet. And that is, look for one with a visual and audio style that you like. Don’t worry too much about the specific game mechanics. As long as the game isn’t completely horrible it won’t even matter. A game that hypes you up with the way it looks and sounds will make the time spent practicing and replaying parts of the game much easier to deal with. I’ve linked some places to find footage and reviews in the video description. Once you’ve gotten accustomed to the process of slowly improving in a shooter until you reach a tough goal, you might consider picking up another game solely for its neat game mechanics. I just don’t recommend that for your first shmup.
As it stands, I think this section is verbose and distracts more than it informs. Half the sentences, like "As long as the game isn't completely horrible...", "I've linked some places...", and "Once you've gotten accustomed..." just repeat what you already said in a slightly different manner, or add information that isn't interesting to a beginner as they're watching the video. I also don't think the advice would be useful to large swaths of people - if they're the sort of person who cares about visuals, then they don't need to be told to look for something they like, while if they're the sort of person who couldn't care less about graphics, then it just sounds out of touch. If they're unsure about that, it'd be more interesting to pique their interest and help them make that decision, rather than telling them where they could go after watching the video to make that decision. You could simply tell people that shmups come in all sorts of styles so you should find something that looks cool to you and not fret too much over specific mechanics, while playing a bunch of clips (labeled with the game names, of course) to illustrate your point and give them a place to start.

The rest of the first section I think can also be trimmed down a lot, into a simple list of bullet point-like ideas. Don't have to elaborate too much on them, people can figure out stuff for themselves to an extent. The superplays paragraph ends up saying nothing because maybe they'll motivate you, maybe they won't, who knows, figure out what you like!

In the second section I see a lot of dry terminology definitions but not so much actionable advice. I don't care what's "micrododging" or "macrododging" (if there even is a hard line between the two) or what counts as "directed," "fixed," or "random" (many things have elements of all); I just want ideas on how I can approach difficult situations.

By the way, you should have a look at BulletMagnet's articles on RacketBoy, they're excellent:
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shmups-1 ... d-shooters
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/the-best ... et-started
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/games-th ... mups-genre
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NTSC-J: You know STGs are in trouble when you have threads on how to introduce them to a wider audience and get more people playing followed by threads on how to get its hardcore fan base to play them, too.
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Regdren C.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

Craft_XIII: I agree that an unsolicited sales pitch on shmups probably wouldn't go over well. In this case it's more like they asked me to explain the genre to them, and when I said I was making a video they started asking when it would be done. That's why I ended up making a deadline. So at least I can act like I'm not pushing it on people who don't want to hear about it. Also I appreciate the idea of being more active here. It's possible that I've been watching too many superplays and assuming that if I don't play like that, I wouldn't really fit in. Oops.

We definitely have different styles for shmups, I prefer to set a pretty strict route beforehand and play games that encourage that kind of play. It's probably why random bullets bug me so much. You sound like you'd be really tough to beat in something like the competitive Touhou games. Also Zanac games are tons of fun, I played the NES one for a bit but Zanac x Zanac is still on my list of games I want to try but haven't had the time for just yet.

Shepardus:

You've just given me lots of good criticism, I appreciate it. A large amount of my script can be cut or made easier to read/hear. By coincidence I watched a video yesterday unrelated to shmups that talked about how it was easy to tell when someone was reading directly from a script, so maybe a format of basic ideas that I elablorate on more impromptu would work better. Also, I think you're right about splitting the video. One for the introduction to the genre as a whole, one for a few general tactics for people just starting out.

The main ideas I wanted to convey for the first part are:

What shmup gameplay looks like
These games are really short and are made for repeated play where you work towards your own goals
Look for graphics and sound that you like because they will carry you through many playthroughs and hours of practice
Don't sweat mistakes or setbacks
Don't force yourself to compete with the best players online

I'm going to take your advice and not pull myself in multiple directions about "Oh these games are best played seriously but you don't HAVE to do that." it's probably better and more honest to just be straightforward about what these games demand from the players.

For the second part, the reason I wanted to define bullet behavior and kinds of dodging was that this was for an audience new to the genre. I wanted to help people recognize what was going on and understand some of the tools to handle them. Macro and micro do have some overlap but I've personally found the idea to be useful, I've personally suffered more trouble from some patterns than I had to because I didn't realize I could just avoid the entire thing by moving a lot. That said, maybe I can afford to use less clinical wording about these ideas.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by FRO »

This was a very interesting read. As someone who can admittedly be fairly verbose, your script approached TL;DR level for me, though I'm sure it would have been easier to digest hearing it in a video. I'm with Shepardus on the first point, in that, this seems more like a "shmups 101" series introductory video, than something you'd want to use to introduce friends to the genre. I'd almost direct them to a handful of Bullet Heaven reviews, to see gameplay, and explanation of mechanics, than use this kind of method, but that's just me. I do think your script could be cool to take it more in that "shmups 101" direction, as I think that kind of thing is sadly lacking on YouTube, and online in general. However, if you're intent on making something for your friends, I'd say trim it down quite a bit, and just cover the basics. I wouldn't get into micrododging vs. macrododging, because those kinds of mechanics are perhaps a bit far down in the weeds. I would focus on the essential elements:

"You play as a place, spaceship, or some other avatar, and you shoot things, usually on a 2D play field. Sometimes the game scrolls vertically, sometimes horizontally. Occasionally, it will do both, or mix things up. You shoot enemies to earn points. Sometimes they drop bonuses, sometimes they give you power-ups to make your character more powerful."

I'm not saying you should use this in your explanation. You probably shouldn't because it's very dry and clinical. But I think keeping it as simple as you can to begin with is best, so you're getting the basic idea across, without diving too far into genre conventions that might be foreign to newcomers. Just my $.02 on the subject.
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Mark_MSX
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Mark_MSX »

Hey man!

I think this is a fantastic idea! We definitely need more introductory content like this, for sure. I do not think your script has to be perfect or up to super player levels of knowledge or anything like that. Most of that knowledge would be lost on new players anyway. Right now, the shmup community definitely has a wealth of content for more experienced players, but is lacking in introductory content, so I hope you do make this video.

If you would like, I'd absolutely be willing to look your script over with you and help out whatever way I can.

Feel free to PM me :-)
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davyK
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by davyK »

Here's an intro article I wrote a while back for a website. Not sure it got much attention - but you might find something in there of use (or not!)

http://www.cubed3.com/news/26558/1/insi ... rimer.html
Regdren C.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

Fro: I do plan to give a very basic explanation of what shmups are at the start. Since the games vary so much I wan't too avoid too many "sometimes" statements because they could easily flood the script, but basic concepts like the genre centering on movement and positioning should be in there. I don't think that concepts like "Dodge a lot" vs "dodge a little" are too complicated, but maybe I don't need to use too many technical terms in that part of the video.

Mark: we've already talked a bit, we'll see if the commentary flows better when it's finished and had the visual aids mixed in.

davyK: That article covers a lot, I'm thinking of linking that article in the video description. What game is in the last screenshot? The visuals seem really crisp, I'd like to learn more.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by davyK »

Regdren C. wrote:
davyK: That article covers a lot, I'm thinking of linking that article in the video description. What game is in the last screenshot? The visuals seem really crisp, I'd like to learn more.
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Regdren C.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

The video is as close to ready as I think I can make it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBJxLYIih7M&
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Mark_MSX
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Mark_MSX »

Excellent work man!

I have gone ahead and shared the video on twitter and in my discord. I think this is a solid resource we can show people who are interested into getting into the genre, but are not very familiar with it.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by mrmccormo »

Don't take this the wrong way, but that was way better than I expected it to be (in the sense that, it was a random video posted by a random forum-goer).

Really good job. You should do more content about shmups. I'd watch it.

I also cross-posted this in another forum I'm in. Gotta push dat cross-exposure.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Mark_MSX »

mrmccormo wrote:Don't take this the wrong way, but that was way better than I expected it to be (in the sense that, it was a random video posted by a random forum-goer).

Really good job. You should do more content about shmups. I'd watch it.

I also cross-posted this in another forum I'm in. Gotta push dat cross-exposure.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Artemio »

Excellent work. I'm sharing this on Twitter as well
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by garrz32 »

Watched your video, would have been nice to see some old school shooters, say maybe R-Type or Soldier blade for the intro.

First game up was Mushihimesama which might look daunting for someone new to the genre. Maybe your just doing the bullet hell theme games , if so I apologize .
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

Thanks for spreading the word everyone. I'm not sure what my next Shmups video would be. I am tempted to see if I could 2-all Raiden 4, but that's not a goal to be achieved overnight. Are there any important game mechanics you'd like to see covered in a followup video?

The reason I'm not showing the really old shmups is that they'd be tough for a beginner to find. I'd rather not shove a newcomer into the world of emulators. Also I wouldn't classify the likes of Hydorah or Ether Vapor as bullet hell, but that's not really important either way. I will admit that most of my tactics examples are best applied in bullet hell games.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Mark_MSX »

Regdren C. wrote:Thanks for spreading the word everyone. I'm not sure what my next Shmups video would be. I am tempted to see if I could 2-all Raiden 4, but that's not a goal to be achieved overnight. Are there any important game mechanics you'd like to see covered in a followup video?

The reason I'm not showing the really old shmups is that they'd be tough for a beginner to find. I'd rather not shove a newcomer into the world of emulators. Also I wouldn't classify the likes of Hydorah or Ether Vapor as bullet hell, but that's not really important either way. I will admit that most of my tactics examples are best applied in bullet hell games.

A video about the process of getting your first 1cc would be an excellent follow up. Talking about practice routines and stuff like that. What do you think?
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by garrz32 »

Regdren C. wrote:Thanks for spreading the word everyone. I'm not sure what my next Shmups video would be. I am tempted to see if I could 2-all Raiden 4, but that's not a goal to be achieved overnight. Are there any important game mechanics you'd like to see covered in a followup video?

The reason I'm not showing the really old shmups is that they'd be tough for a beginner to find. I'd rather not shove a newcomer into the world of emulators. Also I wouldn't classify the likes of Hydorah or Ether Vapor as bullet hell, but that's not really important either way. I will admit that most of my tactics examples are best applied in bullet hell games.
That's cool, it was just my 2c anyway. Now that I've watched it again I see what you mean with your tactics.

Look forward to the next video :)
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Stevens »

Regdren C. wrote:Are there any important game mechanics you'd like to see covered in a followup video?
You did a really good job with this. I've got a few years under my belt and I would watch too.

As far as a follow up, I would suggest starting with basic dodging skills - tap dodging, cut backs, and bullet herding are all closely related. Then maybe micro/macro dodge and how to practice.

Looking forward to the next one.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by davyK »

Nice job.

You have a good speaking voice too which helps a lot.
Craft_XIII
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Craft_XIII »

Good job on the video! Looking forward to the next one. Maybe it'll excite me enough to focus-in on a single game and get my first 1CC.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

It's possible that the subject of movement and the way you can control bullets could have enough substance for me to make a video entirely about that. Or rather, the subject definitely has enough substance, but whether I could actually capture and express it well enough to make a good video is up in the air. I'm not anything close to a top-tier player, and thus it's questionable whether anything beyond beginner's tactics would be a good subject. However, I'm at least willing to give it a try.

Regarding practice, I wasn't even aware that there were wrong ways to do that. It seemed to me like the kind of practice that's effective would vary a lot from one person to another.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by jigenbakuda »

Great vid. I think that was a nice short introduction to the series. I have fanboy gripes about some of the games picked for the video. Sad there was only touhou PCB and no IN. Also hurt there was no Kamui footage. I also wish youvwould have mentioned the switch and its beautiful beautiful line up of retro shooters for cheap. I am so glad more people are being drawn to this genre.

I made a LONG winded almost academic / historical intro to stg video for a local anime convention once, if you would like to shamelessly steal any concepts from me feel free. Spread the stg love!

Please turn on captions to read what I said out loud to the crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 5aM1eYifKb
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by FRO »

@Regdren C. - I must soften my original post, and say that, after watching your video, I think it's pretty good! I think your script worked quite well for the video, after watching it, and wanted to say I enjoyed it. Definitely need to see more content like this, to continue to spread awareness of shooting games.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Special World »

I thought this was a really nice introduction. I especially like how you framed progression and goals as a matter of "being stylish." I think that takes a lot of stigma off new players. You also did a great job highlighting the concepts via video editing and describing different shot patterns. Good shit! I will second that I wish you'd highlighted more games, but... you gotta stick with what you know to an extent, right?
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

Decided to revive my old thread rather than start a new one because I've finally finished my second video. This one is about moving from casual play to non-casual. This process seems to vary a lot from one person to another so I had to be kind of vague in places. I also referenced more sources because there were certain things I didn't have time to cover. I wanted to focus on the experience of starting a practice routine and the decisions involved rather than any really technical shmup strategies.

Is non-causal play right for you?

Any feedback is appreciated.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Regdren C. wrote:Is non-causal play right for you?
i like my shmups to obey the laws of cause and effect, bullet goes pew, enemy goes poof

i'd have a hard time even casually enjoying a non-causal game, quantum mechanics are too much to wrap my head around
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by Regdren C. »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:i'd have a hard time even casually enjoying a non-causal game, quantum mechanics are too much to wrap my head around
It's completely reasonable for the answer of "Is non-casual play right for you" to be "No." The goal of that video isn't to twist anyone's arm into playing more than they want to. It's more like I wanted to explain what kinds of things happen during that process. That way people might have some help to decide whether it would be a good idea.
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by BulletMagnet »

@Regdren - Read his post one more time, methinks you might've missed something. ;)
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Re: Need help making a video to introduce friends to the gen

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I tried to be funny, honest. ;w; I was even nice enough to PM him so he could edit his post if he wanted to before anyone noticed, but suddenly BulletMagnet chimes in and NOW I FEEL GUILTY. (╯°w°)╯ ︵ ┻━━━┻

As penance I offer actual feedback: the video's a fine general encouragement to players if they wanna get better and dedicate themselves to a game. I think to some extent it's the sorta thing that happens more naturally rather than consciously or via encouragement. It seems you just kinda suddenly get attached to a game, especially if the gameplay or the aesthetic really clicks with you. I hope people see content like this and feel like there's a shmup out there for them to really put time into going for the clear, or even for scoring.

Apologies if this was mentioned and I've forgotten, but I'd also mention that you don't have to play the hardest modes to play it seriously. There's a number of games where there's competitive score attacking happening even on the easy modes (Blue Wish Resurrection for instance). You also don't need to focus on scoring either to take a game seriously; you can play for survival, the 1CC, aim for a no-miss clear, etc.

Telling people to eat healthy and get a good night's sleep is good advice, but I don't appreciate being personally attacked. If I want to compromise my health for the sake of shmups it's my prerogative damn it! >:3 (no, plz don't actually do this)
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