ura dreams (next romhack)

[Bananamatic]

let's pretend we give a shit about this one because the pink sweets thread is done
so, will it be dfk or ketsui? or dfkbl?

[dunpeal2064]

My guess is dfk, since then they get the CV1000 rom hack hype. Plus there's already a Ketsui hack.

Or they are adding a Ura loop to a game currently without one, which would probably be more work, and be even less likely to get played.

[KAI]

It will be Muchi Muchi Pork without bullshit requirements for the second loop and Ura Ura Uranium playing nonstop during the entire game, mark my words.

yagawa hack label ftw

[trap15]

My guess is dfk, since then they get the CV1000 rom hack hype.

This is my guess as well.

[Shepardus]

It's going to be DFK because that game definitely doesn't have enough arrange modes

[KAI]

Typed uradreams just for the lulz and, LOL

[trap15]

man that is some shithouse text placement.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Yeah Cave would never do that. Oh, wait.

[M.Knight]

??

Wasn't trap talking about the "Ura dreams" on the top left that isn't really centered in its hexagon-patterned section? There is no equivalent on that Cave title screen, is there?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Maybe so, I don't know. The 1.5 on DFK 1.5 is centered even lower.

This forum is a shithole.

[dunpeal2064]

So, Suicide Club was (from what I could tell) mostly just a rebalancing job, and still played mostly like Pink Sweets. It'll be interesting to see how they do that with dfk, since its a pretty strict game.

Also weird to do these small change hacks to games most people don't like (A Futari hack would get played by nearly everyone, even if it just changed the title screen), but I like dfk so I'll at least play this more than PS:SC.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Probably an affinity with making something great out of very flawed games because if Cave isn't going to polish them then someone else should. PS and DFK are terribly flawed. It's also not "small changes". A small change hack is adding free play. I'd like to see a list of hacks with more changes than PSSC. It would probably consist of trap15's Ketsui and nothing else.

[dunpeal2064]

Probably an affinity with making something great out of very flawed games because if Cave isn't going to polish them then someone else should. PS and DFK are terribly flawed. It's also not "small changes". A small change hack is adding free play. I'd like to see a list of hacks with more changes than PSSC. It would probably consist of trap15's Ketsui and nothing else.

I worded that poorly, I didn't mean that they made a few amount of changes, moreso that they didn't change the core appeal of the game like an Arrange or Black Label might. If someone doesn't like Pink Sweets, I highly doubt they'd like Suicide Club, whereas they very well may like PS Arrange.

Good point though, I can see the appeal of picking flawed games, since there are things to fix. I just don't think its those flaws that turn people off of these games, but a general disinterest overall. Will a fixed dfk (Which was already a perfectly fine game imo) draw more people in?

[Bananamatic]

Will a fixed dfk (Which was already a perfectly fine game imo) draw more people in?

small issue
you can't really play it without converting a board

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I worded that poorly, I didn't mean that they made a few amount of changes, moreso that they didn't change the core appeal of the game like an Arrange or Black Label might. If someone doesn't like Pink Sweets, I highly doubt they'd like Suicide Club, whereas they very well may like PS Arrange.

Good point though, I can see the appeal of picking flawed games, since there are things to fix. I just don't think its those flaws that turn people off of these games, but a general disinterest overall. Will a fixed dfk (Which was already a perfectly fine game imo) draw more people in?

I agree with you on PSSC, it's going to appeal to Pink Sweets players who liked it for the most part but were driven crazy by its incredible incomprehensible flaws.

Ura Dreams is more of a crazy remix than a pure fix but you could argue that it fixes things in its own way.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Will a fixed dfk (Which was already a perfectly fine game imo) draw more people in?

small issue
you can't really play it without converting a board

Unfortunately the fact that timing is so off in current emulation and that non-Yagawa games have to have the original slowdown in order to play correctly, that is true. It's also true that these hacks aren't being made for the sake of giving them away to whiny shmup people who like nothing more than to step on other people's dreams. They just get distributed because, why be a dick and hoard them.

[dunpeal2064]

Ura Dreams is more of a crazy remix than a pure fix but you could argue that it fixes things in its own way.

Well this is cool to hear, and it makes more sense. If they let you turn off auto-bomb, I think some people will have to play it, since that (and laser wheels) were the major complaints Definitely looking forward to it.

you can't really play it without converting a board

Yeah, this is concerning. PS can at least mostly be played without slowdown (I suck at it so maybe I'm wrong), but dfk in mame was nearly unplayable if going for scoring routes. Even just for save-state practice it proved useless. Maybe Ura Dreams will be less strict of a game than 1.5.

If anything, if the game turns out good, most people will play in mame, so the scores will be comparable, and the pcb players might be the odd ones out.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It's not going to be less strict as far as slowdown goes, you might as well put that thought to rest.

[Bananamatic]

I just don't think its those flaws that turn people off of these games, but a general disinterest overall.

no point in playing dfk when ddp and doj exist
between the awful gimmick bosses that die way too fast so you don't even see half of the patterns (or a single bullet for half of the fight in one case), having to suicide to drop rank so you're even allowed to score without power type and over the line boss milking with power type, you're better off playing a different chaining game

dfkbl is also a mess but not an offensively bad one, it's also not even a chaining game so the target demographic is a bit different

[dunpeal2064]

Idk, I never went "whole hog" with dfk but I liked routing it as far in as I did. I didn't play Power Type though. I'm not surprised it wasn't received well, but I don't think DDP or DOJ get much play nowadays either

Either way, doesn't sound like this hack will be for me, as I don't own boards, but I'll still mess with it and hope it turns out well.

[Xyga]

Since it's hacks we're talking about anyway, does it really matter that the timings in MAME are not exactly the same as the originals ?

We can always tweak blitter delay (and try combining with CPU undeclock using Pugsy's cheat file) and bring back some of the slowdowns. IIRC depending on the games and values some parts will be slower than the originals, some faster, some missing entirely, some added, and a few thankfully pretty accurate. So you get something like an average of 1/3 to 1/5 accuracy for the cv1k games, but there are slowdowns during play, at the very least.
Nobody ever bothered to try and find the best - I mean least disastrous - settings, probably no one will ever anyway.

Also if your PC has the guts for using frame_delay you can get something like a little bit over 2 frames less lag compared to baseline MAME.
But tweaking at the same time blitter delay, CPU underclock, frame_delay, and maybe PortAudio too, your PC might commit seppuku.

[Bananamatic]

too bad the cv1k games come with lag already

[dunpeal2064]

Since it's hacks we're talking about anyway, does it really matter that the timings in MAME are not exactly the same as the originals ?

For messing about with the game, no, not really. I'll still play it.

But for pushing the game to its limits, and competing against each other, its a pretty bad thing. Ports may lack accuracy, but at least they do so consistently, whereas two people competing with different PC's and different blitter settings, let alone one person having a strong enough pc to run Frame_Delay and such...

But like MMP said, they aren't being made for this, and its good they are distributed at all. I'm glad its happening, and hope its a great game. It is just disappointing that the game will likely not be pushed nearly as hard as it could be if it were more accessible.

[Xyga]

too bad the cv1k games come with lag already

When it's 2 frames it's no big deal, as long as you have a lagless display. It's whatever delay added on top the original's that's annoying.

For messing about with the game, no, not really. I'll still play it.

But for pushing the game to its limits, and competing against each other, its a pretty bad thing. Ports may lack accuracy, but at least they do so consistently, whereas two people competing with different PC's and different blitter settings, let alone one person having a strong enough pc to run Frame_Delay and such...

Oh I think it's possible to set a rule for minimal equal settings for the people who would like to compete at least on an emulation-only scoreboard; using a d3d9ex build (removing 2 frames of lag at no cost) and a same blitter delay value (if any required) should bring pretty identical results for everyone.
It's using a PC that cannot run the cv1k games consistently at 100% to begin that should be excluded in this case (if you get framerate drops in the middle of a stage: no good)
Well there's always DEmul which is much less demanding, but I don't know if it brings other differences compared to MAME.

Anyway I doubt there will be much submissions. Whether the critics are good or not, hacks are percieved as curiosities, kind of like playbale protos, generating only temporary interest much shorter than official productions. A bit sad for those who make them but it's always been like that.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Unless someone updates the emulation, it's in no way comparable or even playable. Probably half the game or more is in slowdown mode which is 50% speed, and during these times the enemy patterns were created to be dodged while in that slowdown mode. If you reach them at "100% game speed" in emulation you'll mostly be annihilated. And there is no blitter and cpu underclock combo that I've found that makes DFK 1.5 work remotely correctly. The inaccuracy in ports is a whole different animal. They aren't using blitters and cpu underclocking, they are programming in extra slowdown in parts based on watching the pcb and complaints (as far as I can tell).

The input lag on pcb thing though is bullshit trolling. You want bad pcb input lag, go checkout Battle Bakraid.

No official Cave SH3 dump has ever generated a bunch of interest and posts. Or maybe I missed it, show me where.

[z0mbie90]

Too close for comfort

[trap15]

Maybe so, I don't know. The 1.5 on DFK 1.5 is centered even lower.

This forum is a shithole.

I was just shitposting a bit, but I decided to be nice and actually pick it apart for you. https://i.imgur.com/RzOqAoS.png Apologies for the horrible color choice and general sloppiness, I did this really quickly. But hopefully you can see where I'm coming from? It's actually a nice little logo thing, but it's so small and leaves so much poorly utilized blank space.

You should stop taking stuff so personally and seriously.

[Xyga]

"100% game speed" in emulation you'll mostly be annihilated. And there is no blitter and cpu underclock combo that I've found that makes DFK 1.5 work remotely correctly.

note that I distinguish 100% frame rate in mame, and the game's speed. but yeah without slowdowns it's a massacre.

The input lag on pcb thing though is bullshit trolling.

Well it's real apparently, but low-enough to not bother anyone (as I say typically people don't notice up to 2 frames anyway, especially if playing on a CRT)
Using that in an agument is bullshit though, yes.

No official Cave SH3 dump has ever generated a bunch of interest and posts. Or maybe I missed it, show me where.

Years of "how do I play the cave cv1k/sh3 games in MAME, dump of X game when" etc here and across too many forums n't shit including hardware (how many PCs built for playing those) to count. Only the "cv1k emulation is wrong" information campaign calmed the excitement, though never completely killed it, after all it's still fucking Cave.

But, point is, unless it's genuinely "made by Cave" people will hardly ever consider it the same level of product quality - even if it's better - and you know it's true.
If you had said for instance while releasing PSSC "we had beers with YGW he was drunk and sneezed on the test pcb", people would have lost it completely and more would be playing it today, even buying ridiculously overpriced flashed pcbs.
It's stupid but brand fidelity and famous figures help a lot, while a hack has neither in the eyes of people, no semblance of legitimity.

For the same reason note that the overlong suspense didn't help SC, that would have been totally excused if the game had any official 'something' to support it though, the touch of some dev names, something at least a bit weighty. (edit: a custom MAME build to help the no-pcb peasants play it at least a bit decently?)
Honestly trap15 presented his own hacks in a much better fashion, simply, no hip mysteries, and speaking to the community directly, which everyone appreciated and these were well received, without exaggerated emphasis but still welcomed, and people continue to associate the hacks to his name, so that earned him a little fame. No blurry pic of IKD groping trap or whatever, nothing official, but at least people have been able to put a 'face' on who's behind the hacks and eventually ask him questions or shit whatever.

The 4 horsemen though - nobody knows who they are - kinda seemed to not read the situation well, shmuppers are on the verge of extinction and this community here has kind of accepted its fate, so anything good news and quality would still be welcome of course, but I think everyone is past the hype effects, mysteries etc and has lost all hope for a new era/revival, not enough material is still presented us to fuel the 'magic' (eXA is considered too far away, too slow, too expensive anyway, you've witnessed some here even concerned they'll be 'robbed' of a handful of games. I have to admit as and europeasant knowing we're like officially the third world in eXA's strategy..doesn't help myself being very enthusiast)

Frankly I think if you end up saying this community is a shithole you're playing Banana's game, and my personal opinion is; I'd recommend the 4 horsemen change their communication radically this time and trump his negativity...as well as their own!
Seriously - sorry for the redundance here but - after months of uncalled exagerated secrecy with barely any hints the thing was dropped here like a cake we forgot was in the oven, with no instructions nor presentation, and some flavour of disdain and irritability at the lack of enthusiasm.
I don't think it was this community's members that were in the wrong here, it's become too easy to scapegoat the farm saying the atmosphere is bad like that explained everything going 'pshhh' and everything's our fault for every game that's lacking news or interest, while the people who could help supporting the 'life' have all by themselves put quite the distance, by their own choice, no one forcing them out.

It's still time for a complete presentation of SC, story behind it and the reasons for the changes, detailing how to play, and thread support for whoever asks question (I've asked one btw and it was ignored), then it'd be really good to do the same for UD next.

[Bananamatic]

after months of uncalled exagerated secrecy with barely any hints the thing was dropped here like a cake we forgot was in the oven, with no instructions nor presentation, and some flavour of disdain and irritability at the lack of enthusiasm.
I don't think it was this community's members that were in the wrong here, it's become too easy to scapegoat the farm saying the atmosphere is bad like that explained everything going 'pshhh' and everything's our fault for every game that's lacking news or interest, while the people who could help supporting the 'life' have all by themselves put quite the distance, by their own choice, no one forcing them out.

almost there

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Years of "how do I play the cave cv1k/sh3 games in MAME, dump of X game when" etc here and across too many forums n't shit including hardware (how many PCs built for playing those) to count. Only the "cv1k emulation is wrong" information campaign calmed the excitement, though never completely killed it, after all it's still fucking Cave.

What I'm saying is after every individual CV1000 game was dumped, there was never any medium to long term posting and excitement about any of them. Clearly the "whens SDOJ" meme is not what I was referring to, or emulation improvements.

But, point is, unless it's genuinely "made by Cave" people will hardly ever consider it the same level of product quality - even if it's better - and you know it's true.

Which is why PSSC was the most satisfying hack release of all time. Virtually everyone thought it was official or might be then made a judgement based on that, then way later found out it was a hack and had to confront their feelings of likely illogically liking it less because the people programming it weren't getting a Cave paycheck. Absolutely delicious.

If you had said for instance while releasing PSSC "we had beers with YGW he was drunk and sneezed on the test pcb", people would have lost it completely and more would be playing it today, even buying ridiculously overpriced flashed pcbs.
It's stupid but brand fidelity and famous figures help a lot, while a hack has neither in the eyes of people, no semblance of legitimity.

For the same reason note that the overlong suspense didn't help SC, that would have been totally excused if the game had any official 'something' to support it though, the touch of some dev names, something at least a bit weighty.

Four Horsemen were approached by someone interested in selling it with Cave but it didn't work out. But anyway, I bet if you created a hack of a game and then an expert on the original game like Plasmo comes out and says "everything was fixed and more", and "it's the version we always dreamed of" (which is it) and then the game was invited to the prestigious Stunfest in France, probably you might put that patch release on hold too until after the show.

(edit: a custom MAME build to help the no-pcb peasants play it at least a bit decently?)

Dude nobody could expect people to have problems running mame when there were spoon-feeding step by step instructions on the board. I don't know how some people installed Windows.

Honestly trap15 presented his own hacks in a much better fashion, simply, no hip mysteries, and speaking to the community directly, which everyone appreciated and these were well received, without exaggerated emphasis but still welcomed, and people continue to associate the hacks to his name, so that earned him a little fame. No blurry pic of IKD groping trap or whatever, nothing official, but at least people have been able to put a 'face' on who's behind the hacks and eventually ask him questions or shit whatever.

OK let's look at some of the obvious down sides to that: talking in advance = C&D letter from Cave, a thousand people wanting to put in their ideas which might clash with the teams', expectations of a release date when it can take a year or more, people seeing all the canned ideas, I could think of more if I cared to.

The 4 horsemen though - nobody knows who they are - kinda seemed to not read the situation well, shmuppers are on the verge of extinction and this community here has kind of accepted its fate, so anything good news and quality would still be welcome of course, but I think everyone is past the hype effects, mysteries etc and has lost all hope for a new era/revival, not enough material is still presented us to fuel the 'magic' (eXA is considered too far away, too slow, too expensive anyway, you've witnessed some here even concerned they'll be 'robbed' of a handful of games. I have to admit as and europeasant knowing we're like officially the third world in eXA's strategy..doesn't help myself being very enthusiast)

I disagree, having a game just show up in a famous Japan arcade is the coolest marketing campaign idea I've ever seen in my life for a hack and it resulted in a "free" viral marketing on the web. What you described sounds very boring to me.

Frankly I think if you end up saying this community is a shithole you're playing Banana's game,

Actually you seem to be the main person playing whatever "game" he is doing but everyone here is burned by it. He's the worst poster I've ever seen not be banned. Just negative negative negative whine whine whine this wasn't done EXACTLY the way I want it blah blah blah. Pathetic moderation on a shithole board.

and my personal opinion is; I'd recommend the 4 horsemen change their communication radically this time and trump his negativity...as well as their own!

I'd recommend the opposite as they don't want their identifications known publicly.

Seriously - sorry for the redundance here but - after months of uncalled exagerated secrecy with barely any hints the thing was dropped here like a cake we forgot was in the oven, with no instructions nor presentation, and some flavour of disdain and irritability at the lack of enthusiasm.

It was announced on an actually good forum instead, not this abomination that the mods let Banana completely ruin. You think this place deserves something, that's funny.

I don't think it was this community's members that were in the wrong here, it's become too easy to scapegoat the farm saying the atmosphere is bad like that explained everything going 'pshhh' and everything's our fault for every game that's lacking news or interest, while the people who could help supporting the 'life' have all by themselves put quite the distance, by their own choice, no one forcing them out.

It's still time for a complete presentation of SC, story behind it and the reasons for the changes, detailing how to play, and thread support for whoever asks question (I've asked one btw and it was ignored), then it'd be really good to do the same for UD next.

As trap15 has said before, it's more fun to figure hack changes out than it is to read a list of them. But you're welcome to your opinion.