tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

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NMS
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by NMS »

bcass wrote:@NMS and @Flobeamer1922 - what were the most difficult shmups you completed prior to completing Truxton II / Tatsujin Oh? Also, would you class Tatsujin Oh as the most difficult shmup you ever completed?
It was the most difficult for me yes. I have future plans for hard goals with similar difficulty, but at the time I'm writing this, there was a big difference between that and whatever else I did before.
I'd say my hardest achievements before that were getting 12M points on Hishouzame (that was a 23-ALL but the game stops being harder after the 4th loop, and a 4-ALL would already be my second hardest clear I guess), and below that a couple of hard Toaplan 1-ALL like Dogyuun or Kyuukyoku Tiger. But there's a big gap between those and Tatsujin Oh, they're not notoriously hard (they're still challenging).
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Angry Hina »

Shatterhand wrote:I really played the Mega-Drive version a lot because of a hi-score competition here, IIRC I got far on the 2nd loop at it and that was all.

Found the game to be really boring for very long periods with some really nice parts here and there. I remember up until like the half olf level 2 you could just move all the way to right, then all the way to left, then all the way to right, in a loop, non stop, while holding the button, and you'd get pretty far doing just that, up until you get really sleepy and... WHAM, a ship outta nowhere hits you from behind.

That was my hi-score, taken 11 August 2015.

Image
I would like to see a video of that strategy. Dont know how this should work if there are so many enemies to come from behind.

Anyway, I've noticed that I have stopped to document my Tatsujin 1cc quest after my semi 1cc (3cc). Thankfully it went good for me, even i was sometimes near to giving up, and I've managed to find a reliable route through the enemy pattern of the last checkpoint before the stage 5 boss. So this is how I've done it on normal and in 60Hz:
https://youtu.be/zLvZPOMQ2A0

After that I got through the 2nd loop as well (but on easy). 2nd loop on easy is very different from 1st loop normal. more but a little slower projectiles. The fist half is much harder but the last two levels are a bit easier. Its really worth the play. And here it is:
https://youtu.be/6m0YCUVZj3I

Really hard work for me. Good to be proud of ^^
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Angry Hina »

And thanks for your review mycophobia, I like it :)
It mentions some things I havent thought much before.

But:
The game gets flak from some players for having enemies that spawn from the bottom of the screen, but it's a fairly rare occurrence, and again, the game always deals the same enemies in the same exact way, so just make a note of it and avoid it next time.
rare occurrence? Ive seen games with a bit more but I would say its quite often in Tatsujin compared to many shooters. I found (before learning stage 5) the enemies from behind being one of the most important tasks.
The weapon system, in particular, is implemented such that you will want one particular weapon type -- of the red spread shot, green straight shot, or the relatively weak but zako obliterating blue laser -- for a variety of different situations in the game. None of them are penalty weapons, unlike many other STGs that offer a weapon selection
The weapons work really great for a game of this age but I guess the green one is rarely the best choice. and if you get it in stage 5 it can get a real problem. (for me)
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

I've had the MD version of Tatsujin for about a year now. Initially, I didn't much appreciate it. It was one of those games that, growing up as a Nintendo kid, I envied; it looked so cool in EGM (even though they gave it bad reviews). Plus, Truxton. That name sounded so badass. And of course years later, Classic Game Room always made it sound like a stone cold classic.

But when I finally got it...enh. It seemed okay. Decent enough shooter, but with supremely bullshit checkpoints that demotivated me to play it. It was Same!³ that ended up being the Toaplan MD that grabbed me.

Fast forward to me finally getting an RGB SCART cable for my MD, so I could at last run it through my OSSC.

Holy. Shit.

My primary issue with the MD hardware has always been its colour palette limitations, only letting it display a fraction of the shades the PC Engine & Super Famicom can. So while RGB is a definite improvement, games often don't benefit from the separated component signals as much as they would on something with more intermediate shades.

But an artist with a skilled understanding of colour juxtaposition can make the MD work. And with Tatsujin, RGB makes that mofo's colours explode off the screen. The second I saw it my brain just went "whoah," as I wasn't expecting anything in particular.

Excuse the crummy off-screen iPhone pics, as I don't have a capture device. But hopefully you get the general impression:

Image

Image

Suffice to say this rekindled an interest, and I've spent hours with it the last two nights. Getting into the game's pace and its internal logic removed the frustration and made it a lot more enjoyable. This is a memorizer as much as anything, and learning it actually feels very Dark Soulsy in a way that other memorizers like R-Type don't.

I don't want to overcorrect and suddenly put it on my best of all time list (especially when I haven't touched any Toaplan stuff from '90 onward), but safe to say, I appreciate it.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by jehu »

Tatsujin is working on Mister! As someone with a lot of experience with the MD and PC Engine versions, I'm glad to finally have a chance to take a more concentrated crack at the arcade version. It has been tough adjustment - enemy behaviors are just different enough across versions that it will really throw you if you have a route down in another game.

This thread is a goldmine if you want to play Mister Toaplan - Outzone, Zero Wing, and Hellfire are working with only minor problems. There's a standalone Tatsujin core on page 3, so get on it if it sounds interesting:

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 4&start=60
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Angry Hina »

Dark Soulsy? I compare it with R-Type :D the difference is the faster pace of a typical vertical shooter and the lack of a defense system. Played and recorded it with RGB as well
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Mykaizer »

I'm curious about the version differences between Truxton (Gen) and Tatsujin(MD). Always hated how Genesis owners sort of got reduced content with localized games..(looking at TFIV...) I have a copy of Truxton and it sucks that it could be an inferior version.

Anyway, to relate with Sengoku Strider, I have MAME set up with ReShade and man can I make those colors pop! I can increase the bloom effect and get an awesome crt tube screen-like effect. It's freakin awesome and really enhances my enjoyment with these types of games. Only really just got into the Toaplan games recently and just starting with Dogyuun(really fun)! I will get to Tatsujin/Oh eventually!
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Steven »

jehu wrote:Outzone
Oh shit, this is one of the games that I was most looking forward to from M2! Can't wait to try it on the MiSTer along with the rest of the Toaplan games that have been released so far.
Myketosis wrote:I'm curious about the version differences between Truxton (Gen) and Tatsujin(MD). Always hated how Genesis owners sort of got reduced content with localized games..(looking at TFIV...) I have a copy of Truxton and it sucks that it could be an inferior version.
I have the Retro-Bit release and although it's Truxton in my Nomad, it becomes Tatsujin when I put it in my Japanese Mega Drive. Might be the same ROM for all regions and it just detects the region of the system it's in to display the appropriate title screen. I know Retro-Bit Fire Shark does not become Same! Same! Same!, though, and Retro-Bit Zero Wing is always in horribly mangled English. Not sure about the original carts, though, as I don't have those.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sumez »

Yes, Truxton/Tatsujin is the same ROM between US and JP versions. Not sure about the European, but it's probably the same.

Same with V-V/Grind Stormer, where the difference is a lot more notable.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Steven »

Sumez wrote:Yes, Truxton/Tatsujin is the same ROM between US and JP versions. Not sure about the European, but it's probably the same.

Same with V-V/Grind Stormer, where the difference is a lot more notable.
Doesn't the music actually play at the proper speed on PAL hardware? I suppose I can set my Mega Sg to PAL mode and find out all of the answers, though.

I need to play V-V and Grind Stormer. I tried V-V for a few moments when I got my Mega Sg, but the music made me run away in terror lol. Definitely not the best example of what the YM2612 can do.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sumez »

Steven wrote: Doesn't the music actually play at the proper speed on PAL hardware? I suppose I can set my Mega Sg to PAL mode and find out all of the answers, though.
If that's the case, it would be one of the rare MegaDrive games where the music timing actually relies on the video sync rate rather than whatever timing registers the Z80 has accessible (the only other example I can think of is Sonic 1). Usually music speed remains the same between MD regions, but I can't say for sure about Truxton. I always just played the game in 60hz on my European console. :)
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Steven »

Sumez wrote:
Steven wrote: Doesn't the music actually play at the proper speed on PAL hardware? I suppose I can set my Mega Sg to PAL mode and find out all of the answers, though.
If that's the case, it would be one of the rare MegaDrive games where the music timing actually relies on the video sync rate rather than whatever timing registers the Z80 has accessible (the only other example I can think of is Sonic 1). Usually music speed remains the same between MD regions, but I can't say for sure about Truxton. I always just played the game in 60hz on my European console. :)
Yeah, I'd have to check, but I really want to know now lol. Definitely going to try the Mega Sg in PAL to see what happens in a while. I have no experience with actual PAL hardware, but I tried Sonic 1 in PAL mode on the Mega Sg once for fun to see what 50Hz is like and I was surprised at how slow the game was. I think the Sonic games are inconsistent in how they handled the music on PAL Mega Drives, as I believe some of the games have music that is optimized for PAL while some don't, but I don't remember the specifics right now. I know one of them has the drowning music end several seconds before you drown in PAL...

Alright, I tested the Retro-Bit Truxton on the Mega Sg in PAL mode and the music is definitely a lot slower than it is in NTSC mode.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Angry Hina wrote:Dark Soulsy? I compare it with R-Type :D the difference is the faster pace of a typical vertical shooter and the lack of a defense system. Played and recorded it with RGB as well
I know, it's a point of reference that's been beaten down to the point of near irrelevance. But those were genuinely the memory neurons that started going off for me. It was that sense of getting my ass kicked but knowing once I figured out I'd keep seeing consistent progress. And yeah, maybe the fact that it plays a bit faster that R-Type accounts for some of that (Dark Souls definitely has a defensive system though).

But R-Type's constant presence of environmental hazards and having to dodge enemy fire in confined spaces makes it a game that feels like there are more variables at work. It requires a different mental frame of reference to approach. Sure, there are traps in Dark Souls, but you're not constantly worried your knight will explode if he touches the ground.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Angry Hina »

But in Dark Souls, if you are careful and watch out for the things, the world tells you, you often don't have to die. This is not the case in Tatsujin :D
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sumez »

Every miniboss encounter in Tatsujin is basically Capra Demon
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by BrianC »

Steven wrote: I know Retro-Bit Fire Shark does not become Same! Same! Same!, though.
odd. It became Same! Same! Same! for me with the retro-bit cart with the system switched to Japanese. The original cart also has a JP version.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Steven »

BrianC wrote:
Steven wrote: I know Retro-Bit Fire Shark does not become Same! Same! Same!, though.
odd. It became Same! Same! Same! for me with the retro-bit cart with the system switched to Japanese. The original cart also has a JP version.
Interesting. I'll go check again later today. Maybe I'm just forgetting or I had the Mega Sg' automatic region detection on or something, as I normally leave it set to Japan. I'll try it with one of my Japanese Mega Drives to see what it does.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by OmegaFlareX »

Generally, you can consult the No-Intro romset to find out if a game is multi-region. Tatsujin MD has the (World) label meaning it is, but Fire Shark/Same³ has 3 different ROMs, one for each region. I think I have an older version of the full set, it might have changed since then.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by BrianC »

OmegaFlareX wrote:Generally, you can consult the No-Intro romset to find out if a game is multi-region. Tatsujin MD has the (World) label meaning it is, but Fire Shark/Same³ has 3 different ROMs, one for each region. I think I have an older version of the full set, it might have changed since then.
Same^3 is an odd case. One of those games that has multiple ROM versions, but still has a JP version on cart.

SoR2 is another odd case. The JP Bare Knuckle 2 AFAIK has both the EU and JP versions on cart, but the English version on cart is PAL optimized and will only play on 50Hz systems. The US version of SoR2 has a JP version on cart that can be played if region lock is bypassed, but it differs from the actual Japanese cart and still retains the censorship of the US version. I think Revenge of Shinobi may be like that too. Later carts still play as Super Shinobi on JP systems but retain the changed graphics.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by jehu »

Shouts out to mycophobia if they still hang out around here.

Spent yesterday afternoon trying to cobble together my arcade 1CC route - search the Tubes for a replay and get a top hit performed by a Mr. 'edusword.' And god damn was that a stupid stage one, sos okay he's probably a cheater. Google him up and sure enough, a thread where you all drop the hammer of justice, shred him up, and then the attempted justification and the whole song and dance about STG improvisation and 'self-expression.' My god. More than anything, sad to discover I missed that Golden age of drama not being around here in those days.

End up sifting through another cheated run or two before I hit mycophobia's uploads. A veritable YouTube cancer, those cheated runs. So anyway, shouts to him for the legit strategies and for leaving up multiple runs. Very helpful.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by mycophobia »

hello! glad the vids could be of use
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

jehu wrote:Shouts out to mycophobia if they still hang out around here
Funnily enough I literally just came here from reading the review of this game on his site. He does a really good job of explaining what it's about.
Spent yesterday afternoon trying to cobble together my arcade 1CC route - search the Tubes for a replay and get a top hit performed by a Mr. 'edusword.' And god damn was that a stupid stage one, sos okay he's probably a cheater. Google him up and sure enough, a thread where you all drop the hammer of justice, shred him up, and then the attempted justification and the whole song and dance about STG improvisation and 'self-expression.'
Moglar5k wrote:Having absolutely no idea what the hell you are doing and always magically surviving is not creativity or self-expression, unless you are trying to express that you are a complete moron in a creative way.
LOL
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

I don't know bro...going through a shmup blind and seeing how far I can make it is perhaps the most fun and intense time I've ever had with the games (the only exception being the absurdly cruel checkpoints).

For the purpose of making a "pro" run with few or no deaths, or god-forbid a scoring run, of course it's not good!

For the purpose of having fun with the video games, it's a fucking blast.

Completely unrelated to shmups btw - but one of the reasons roguelikes and roguelites are so popular is that people can have this fresh feeling, or at least a part of it, consistently while playing. Consider it...
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Flobeamer1922 »

Myketosis wrote:I'm curious about the version differences between Truxton (Gen) and Tatsujin(MD). Always hated how Genesis owners sort of got reduced content with localized games..(looking at TFIV...) I have a copy of Truxton and it sucks that it could be an inferior version.
Both are contained in the same ROM, but MD Tatsujin's difficulty settings are all harder than the ones in Genesis Truxton. You can think of it like six different difficulty settings, with Genesis Truxton easy being the easiest, and MD Tatsujin hard being the hardest.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by pegboy »

jehu wrote:Shouts out to mycophobia if they still hang out around here.

Spent yesterday afternoon trying to cobble together my arcade 1CC route - search the Tubes for a replay and get a top hit performed by a Mr. 'edusword.' And god damn was that a stupid stage one, sos okay he's probably a cheater. Google him up and sure enough, a thread where you all drop the hammer of justice, shred him up, and then the attempted justification and the whole song and dance about STG improvisation and 'self-expression.' My god. More than anything, sad to discover I missed that Golden age of drama not being around here in those days.

End up sifting through another cheated run or two before I hit mycophobia's uploads. A veritable YouTube cancer, those cheated runs. So anyway, shouts to him for the legit strategies and for leaving up multiple runs. Very helpful.
Edusword is a known cheater, don't watch any of that crap.

The following channels on yoitube are run of frauds and all contain fake/cheated runs:
World of longplays
Nintendocomplete
Shadowserg
Heroes of xanadu sloth
Paul eales
Kirgeez gaming
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

Eh, World of Longplays calls itself a "video game museum" and Shadowserg claims he's just doing boss showcases. Neither claim to be proof of skill channels.

Haven't seen the rest, but I wouldn't call them frauds unless they specifically say that they're doing it legit.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by pegboy »

If they don't expliciitly put tool assisted or TAS in the title they are on this list, period. Shadowserg is one of the worst. Nothing but save stated, re-recorded trash.

World of lonplays or whoever fucking runs it is also a liar, making up lies about why they can't say their fake videos are fake.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:I don't know bro...going through a shmup blind and seeing how far I can make it is perhaps the most fun and intense time I've ever had with the games (the only exception being the absurdly cruel checkpoints).

For the purpose of making a "pro" run with few or no deaths, or god-forbid a scoring run, of course it's not good!

For the purpose of having fun with the video games, it's a fucking blast.
Oh, of course. Nobody's going to jump on that sort of thing as cheating. It's when you do that & suddenly pull off a 2-All in Ketsui that people are going to rightly ask for receipts - which was the exact example Moglar linked there and was criticizing.

With Edusword, he got caught after posting an emulated Gradius V 1cc that...well, you tell me if you think this is being done in real time by a human brain & hands:

Image

Charlatans always rely on the same implicit claim, expecting people to believe they have quantum-computer reaction speeds and decision making and don't have to work at anything. But this was one of those things that most people know is beyond reasonable limits on human reflexes, unless that player has been at it for a long time and knows exactly what's coming. But his defence was that he didn't have time for games because of his kid, only did a quick video because his brother asked him to, and just banged it out.

The Edusword 1cc Tatsujin video is just a really obvious fake:

1. Doesn't know the hidden 1ups exist
2. Reacts in a way that shows he doesn't know the patterns of even the early stage minibosses or the logical safe spots.
3. Does really implausible things like loop-de-loops around powerups he's dodging.
4. Never switches off the red weapon no matter the stage.
5. Reacts in a way that shows he doesn't know where popcorn waves are coming from, yet magically survives all the enemies which appear from the rear.

It's not about just freestyling & having fun, there are just basic common sense things you pick up if you've played the game enough to earn a 1cc.
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Re: tatsujin/truxton appreciation thread.

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

These days the ultimate defense is just streaming the clears. I find it hilarious that it's so easy to prove your run, yet people still try to pass off fakes. Just showing your hands and proving your presence has more weight than any amount of input files and justification.

At first, I was firmly against people who judge based on factors like you listed. I still don't like it. But as I realized just how damn easy it is to prove your vaildity, even getting to the point where your run is being judged becomes a ridiculous notion. PC can't handle streaming? Just borrow a camera. As long as the screen is visible i don't think they'll care about quality. Again, shit's hilarious.

Feels like a tangent though.

Uh...don't forget to play Out Zone. It has the truxujin ship so don't hesitate lmao
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