How long did it take before you got good at shmups ?

[Plasmo]

I am working on it really hard and made it my lifetime goal to become good at shmups.

Heh reminds me of when I was a teenager with silly ambitions to.

I hope you haven't given up on those ambitions now that you're older!

I am very, very serious about shmups. They have teached me a lot in life and helped me through tougher times. They also made me approach other lifegoals in a similar way. I find myself having much more fun progressing and getting better at something, than just to be a passive spectator. I don't enjoy relaxing hobbies, I need challenges.

I love shmups.

[agyx-groovy]

when you're a teenager you probably don't have the mental capacity to get anywhere
the best you'll manage is flailing around and complaining about everything being unfair or memoshit

Well that's a different point entirely I mean ambition is good! but to go as far as "life" ambition is a video game ie the sole intent of your purpose for your existence? really?

I am very, very serious about shmups. They have teached me a lot in life and helped me through tougher times. They also made me approach other lifegoals in a similar way. I find myself having much more fun progressing and getting better at something, than just to be a passive spectator. I don't enjoy relaxing hobbies, I need challenges.

I love shmups.

I think you mean "taught" but anyway indulge me, what have they taught you in life? I mean i get the vice hedonism bit to keep your mind off adversity but "life" ambition? Nobody said anything about being passive or not trying hard but what you stated suggests a sole dominant purpose above all else, what other challenges are you seeking to indulge when not sitting down playing video games?

[Square_Air]

the sole intent of your purpose for your existence

Holy macaronis, I think you may have jumped to a conclusion a little fast there.

what other challenges are you seeking to indulge when not sitting down playing video games?

This is an unexpected development.

[agyx-groovy]

Holy macaronis, I think you may have jumped to a conclusion a little fast there.

No i don't think so not if you read the entirety of the conversation and don't take things out of context. Plasmo said precisely that getting good at shmups was his "lifes ambition" surely i don't have to explain to you the connotations of his view and the meanings of the language used?

This is an unexpected development.

One of the more elaborate ways of saying "nothing" i must admit.

[Bananamatic]

let's be real, lots of things are harder and more complex than pressing buttons in a semi-predetermined sequence according to muscle memory for 20-40 minutes until the stars align and everything works out in a single run
the hard part is coming to terms that being good at shmups is really nothing but that and not finding it extremely boring at the same time
if you need to dedicate most of your life to that in order to get anywhere then I feel sorry for you

[qmish]

1) regarding "lifetime goal", do you really think it's his the only and the one goal in life? I thought it's common knowledge you have multiple things that you wanna do which can take many many years.

So if you think that he only cares about shmups and nothing else in life - eeeeeeeh that sounds retarded unless you can provide arguments that he doesn't have any other dreams, ideas and targets to pursue in life...

2) now, back to on-topic. I m still pretty bad, lol, even with shmups I had more than 20 hours I never go further than to stage 3 or something like that. Need to say I abandon shmups and return to them, so I can be "don't care at all" for many months and then "boom I totally love them again"

I'm always surprised how there are people like Banana or MintyCat though guess they both spent hundred ours AND naturally good at games lol (I mean , I can't even agree that dark souls are easy as I died so many times on bosses and such; and shmups insanely more challenging)

[Dumple]

Reformed scrub here. It took me about 10 years to get good*. I started posting to the shmups forum in 2007. I got my first arcade 1cc in 2014. Now I have around 50. I'm not a top-tier shmupper but I'm good.

For a big chunk of that time I didn't play shmups that much, and I jumped from game to game too often, so progress was slow.

It takes time, it takes practice. Your muscle memory makes progress even if you don't consciously note it or understand it. Your hands are learning the game even if your brain isn't. Enjoy the process - you're playing shmups to enjoy getting better at shmups.

*Or, if you prefer: It took me about 10 years to git gud.

[Bananamatic]

It takes time, it takes practice. Your muscle memory makes progress even if you don't consciously note it or understand it. Your hands are learning the game even if your brain isn't.

that's how you become mediocre, not good
a game with fixed enemy attacks and fixed enemy positions is infinitely easier to approach in a fixed manner and there is no muscle memory involved just doing random shit

it only shows how the biggest obstacle to becoming good is having fun in the process because people would rather pretend that you can get by on reactions and just blindly playing and how it's not important at all to have a plan because they find the idea of playing the game in the exact same way every single time or god forbid focusing on one game for a long time utterly repulsive

[qmish]

idea of playing the game in the exact same way every single time

Well yeah if you literally mean it.

Having the same route each time so your ship's/whatever's path is pixel-to-pixel same (like you painted a line on your monitor to follow) dealing with enemies in same way and order...

..fucking boring, i'd better be "awful player" instead. And i'm not a robot, i can't repeat it "exactly", it will be a little different each time, even if i attempt certain route and certain order of actions.

[Plasmo]

it only shows how the biggest obstacle to becoming good is having fun in the process

Someone's calling for me?

The biggest lesson shmups taught me is how to be successful in life. But tbh, personal success with women, earning money or other professional goals appear secondary when considering that I need to beat Eaglet in Garegga.

[Ako]

I'm good at everything so the question is unanswerable

[iconoclast]

They have teached me a lot in life and helped me through tougher times. They also made me approach other lifegoals in a similar way.

I think you mean "taught" but anyway indulge me, what have they taught you in life?

That's not an unusual take tbh. It's not just shmups or video games, but I'm sure any hobby that requires serious effort to do well in can change and improve your attitude towards many things in life.

"Even before the entrance exams, I played games for 8 hours", Tokido says. He also goes on to say "Rather, the only reason why I got into Todai is because I played games."

Entrance exams are also about efficiency. I only applied to Todai University, and nowhere else. I was not accepted during my first try, having to wait 1 year before re-taking the exam. During that time and during the time I was enrolled, Todai was my one and only battle. On a serious topic, to get into Todai, you have to think of a completely thorough strategy. Panicking and trying a bunch of new things is meaningless. If you have the time to think of a backup plan when you fail the exams, you should be spending that amount of time and dedication towards a strategy to get accepted. You will have a much higher chance of getting in that way.

When I look back at it, my studying strategy is influenced heavily by how I think when I play games. Entrance exams are like games in the sense that it has a "win pattern". I don't think I necessarily agree with the idea that, "If all you do is play video games, you'll turn into an idiot." If you devote 100% of your effort into something, there is always something you will learn from it. For me, that was simply video games.

When you aim for a high score, you can’t avoid playing in a risky way. At the same time, there’s no way a human controlled ship can ever reach 100% of the scoring potential in a game. However, I don’t see my failures and mistakes in a negative way; rather, I always try to maintain an attitude of unflagging, positive striving. I try to apply that way of thinking to my life outside of games too.

When you try to achieve a high score, it can occasionally be hard on you (both physically and mentally), but I think it’s precisely that act of taking the game very seriously and working hard that makes great joy (and great sorrow!) possible. For me, no matter what score I achieve, there’s a big value in having that attitude.

[Bananamatic]

The biggest lesson shmups taught me is how to be successful in life. But tbh, personal success with women, earning money or other professional goals appear secondary when considering that I need to beat Eaglet in Garegga.

you're just trying to beat eaglet at the easiest thing

That's not an unusual take tbh. It's not just shmups or video games, but I'm sure any hobby that requires serious effort to do well in can change and improve your attitude towards many things in life.

and for every tokido, you have 100 low tier gods, krauts or guses (or people who are amazing at their games but have zero chance of going pro because it's not street fighter)
it's like claiming that weed expands the mind, except every pothead you happen to know is a pathetic druggie

[agyx-groovy]

1) regarding "lifetime goal", do you really think it's his the only and the one goal in life? I thought it's common knowledge you have multiple things that you wanna do which can take many many years.

So if you think that he only cares about shmups and nothing else in life - eeeeeeeh that sounds retarded unless you can provide arguments that he doesn't have any other dreams, ideas and targets to pursue in life...

All i got from that was you're not particularly bright/consistent in thinking which is fine everybody has their own pace but you are asking me to provide arguments for things he hasn't said whilst i'm sticking to what he precisely DID say or is it normal conduct for you to focus more on the hypothetical than the fact? Now that certainly does sound "retarded".

If he does indeed care about more than shmups and so on then he is free to state as much with the appropriate language which demonstrates this because this is how commuincationw orks, you tend to go by what someone says to you not what they didn't.

[Plasmo]

1) regarding "lifetime goal", do you really think it's his the only and the one goal in life? I thought it's common knowledge you have multiple things that you wanna do which can take many many years.

So if you think that he only cares about shmups and nothing else in life - eeeeeeeh that sounds retarded unless you can provide arguments that he doesn't have any other dreams, ideas and targets to pursue in life...

All i got from that was you're not particularly bright/consistent in thinking which is fine everybody has their own pace but you are asking me to provide arguments for things he hasn't said whilst i'm sticking to what he precisely DID say or is it normal conduct for you to focus more on the hypothetical than the fact? Now that certainly does sound "retarded".

Tone it down, man. In contrast to you, qmish got me right at least. And it's not as if I was particularly ambiguous about it in any way. Of course I have more than one single goal in life (and I even said so myself, but w/e).

The biggest lesson shmups taught me is how to be successful in life. But tbh, personal success with women, earning money or other professional goals appear secondary when considering that I need to beat Eaglet in Garegga.

you're just trying to beat eaglet at the easiest thing

I think you are underestimating Eaglet's achievements here. His Garegga scores are really strong, especially Bornnam. You should try it yourself one day!

[Bananamatic]

I think you are underestimating Eaglet's achievements here. His Garegga scores are really strong, especially Bornnam. You should try it yourself one day!

still easier than beating eaglet at getting women

[chempop]

I think you are underestimating Eaglet's achievements here. His Garegga scores are really strong, especially Bornnam. You should try it yourself one day!

still easier than beating eaglet at getting women

But have you heard his duck calls.

[Plasmo]

I think you are underestimating Eaglet's achievements here. His Garegga scores are really strong, especially Bornnam. You should try it yourself one day!

still easier than beating eaglet at getting women

You sure?

[EmperorIng]

I'm good at everything so the question is unanswerable

I've seen his Kingdom Grand Prix scores; can confirm.

[Shepardus]

Honestly if you need a video game to teach you about practice and discipline and whatnot, then I'm fine with you making video game playing your life's ambition because you're probably not getting far in other things anyway.

[Plasmo]

Honestly if you need a video game to teach you about practice and discipline and whatnot, then I'm fine with you making video game playing your life's ambition because you're probably not getting far in other things anyway.

As I have stated above, they were of great help to me. That doesn't mean that it's for everyone though.

[Eaglet]

I think you are underestimating Eaglet's achievements here. His Garegga scores are really strong, especially Bornnam. You should try it yourself one day!

still easier than beating eaglet at getting women

You sure?

I'm out of that game now so the high score is up for the taking.

I think you are underestimating Eaglet's achievements here. His Garegga scores are really strong, especially Bornnam. You should try it yourself one day!

still easier than beating eaglet at getting women

But have you heard his duck calls.

You should hear my brothers'. They're zenichi-level.

On topic: I got to an ok general level pretty fast but i guess that only has to do with it being a new obsession and that i already knew how to practice from playing a lot of guitar at high level before. Learning to practice is a life skill that applies to everything in my opinion. Garegga is the game that i like and have played the most and i consider myself ok at it now. Will never be satisfied but getting over 90% of WR with most ships feels like a good goal.

Honestly pretty surprised to see the amount of vitriol here for striving towards good playing. Just because you make getting really good at a hobby a priority doesn't mean that you forsake everything else. In general i find that high performing individuals tend to perform at a high level regardless of what they're doing. I could be completely wrong though. At least speaking from myself i've never been satisfied with mediocrity in anything i care even the slightest about.
A personal flaw tbh as it leads to a lot of stress but i've taught myself how to handle it better now.

[Square_Air]

Holy macaronis, I think you may have jumped to a conclusion a little fast there.

No i don't think so not if you read the entirety of the conversation and don't take things out of context. Plasmo said precisely that getting good at shmups was his "lifes ambition" surely i don't have to explain to you the connotations of his view and the meanings of the language used?

If he does indeed care about more than shmups and so on then he is free to state as much with the appropriate language which demonstrates this because this is how commuincationw orks, you tend to go by what someone says to you not what they didn't.

This is ironic, because you're the one here that made incorrect assumptions.

This is an unexpected development.

One of the more elaborate ways of saying "nothing" i must admit.

On the contrary, I was reacting to how odd your question was. Imagine someone walking up to a basketball player or a musician and saying "Really? What are you doing in life that's actually worthwhile"? There's really nothing less valuable about becoming skilled at a niche genre of video games than most other passionate pursuits that don't involve direct humanitarian work.

All i got from that was you're not particularly bright/consistent in thinking

[ardiel]

You don't just develop muscle memory, you develop mental memory too. It's really not just reactions unless you're playing a very bland or random game. You remember that the centipedes are coming up next. You remember that this spot is good to hyper. You remember the laser wheels and shotgun enemies. You remember that when a boss is at half health it changes to a nasty attack pattern that you need to prepare for.

Even if you don't try to remember stuff, you will anyway.

[MintyTheCat]

let's be real, lots of things are harder and more complex than pressing buttons in a semi-predetermined sequence according to muscle memory for 20-40 minutes until the stars align and everything works out in a single run

This is what the sex therapist said to me and the wife at our last session - honest

[Bananamatic]

You don't just develop muscle memory, you develop mental memory too. It's really not just reactions unless you're playing a very bland or random game. You remember that the centipedes are coming up next. You remember that this spot is good to hyper. You remember the laser wheels and shotgun enemies. You remember that when a boss is at half health it changes to a nasty attack pattern that you need to prepare for.

Even if you don't try to remember stuff, you will anyway.

that's the most rough, obvious stuff you remember on your first or second playthrough that only leads to hitting a serious wall in several years because you will never get a 2-ALL in a harder game or get a good score just remembering big things and doing random stuff everywhere else

[MintyTheCat]

it only shows how the biggest obstacle to becoming good is having fun in the process

Someone's calling for me?

The biggest lesson shmups taught me is how to be successful in life. But tbh, personal success with women, earning money or other professional goals appear secondary when considering that I need to beat Eaglet in Garegga.

Yep: if you are not miraculously 'born with gifted ability' then yes, you have to chip away at things and yes, the hardest thing is sticking to things especially when things get to be involved and challenging or when you have no support.

You may be ok at a few things in life but not exceptionally gifted at many things. The rest of it you have to devote yourself and your time to and often some other resources - that's just how it is for the majority of us.
I think knowing that you can overcome, survive and thrive in given situations and subjects gives some people confidence over those who haven't really applied themselves and gotten some insight from 'the other side' of things.

I cannot say that 'beating Eaglet' is high on my personal priority-list and in fact investment, 'lady-time' and just dealing with interesting things tends to beat that for me, Plasmo - but we're all different Perhaps having one of those Lollis beat me with a feather duster would work though

If you look at the children who are talented they often struggle a bit later on as the subject/art becomes more invovled.

I think that there's often a bit too much emphasis on winning or losing and we're all plagued by this roman catholic ideology of 'good' and 'evil' which really doesn't assist anyone who aspires all too much.
Just enkoy it as many of the folks on here have raised and.....hope that you don't wake up one day in some TRON like scenario where you have to play to survive and it's some evil, sadistic Shmup that you haven't played and got any of that famed muscle-memory stored up for

[ardiel]

You don't just develop muscle memory, you develop mental memory too. It's really not just reactions unless you're playing a very bland or random game. You remember that the centipedes are coming up next. You remember that this spot is good to hyper. You remember the laser wheels and shotgun enemies. You remember that when a boss is at half health it changes to a nasty attack pattern that you need to prepare for.

Even if you don't try to remember stuff, you will anyway.

that's the most rough, obvious stuff you remember on your first or second playthrough that only leads to hitting a serious wall in several years because you will never get a 2-ALL in a harder game or get a good score just remembering big things and doing random stuff everywhere else

Sure, maybe for the first few times you play. After a few hundred or few thousand times it's really not random stuff anymore. Probably wrong stuff if you don't try to improve it, but not random stuff.

Also just because you know what to do doesn't mean you'll have the dexterity to do it. There's no shortage of situations where knowledge is not nearly enough but you must also physically have a steady hand. Remembering stuff doesn't help you fit into gaps the size of your hitbox.

[Bananamatic]

Sure, maybe for the first few times you play. After a few hundred or few thousand times it's really not random stuff anymore. Probably wrong stuff if you don't try to improve it, but not random stuff.

if you do random stuff several hundred times, you'll be doing random stuff until the world ends because it's near impossible to come to any conclusion with a billion things you randomly did once without giving it any thought
you need to actively think about what you want to achieve, how to get to the goal, understand what you need to do and why you're doing it and not something else and suddenly even just getting a 1cc becomes infinitely easier to achieve (or possible to achieve in the first place)

it's like playing fighting games with your friends when you were kids, just jumping in at each other and attacking without giving it any thought
you could play for years like that and someone who's been playing for a week would beat you all day just by understanding the basics to playing well and you'll never understand why you're losing unless you think about why it's happening and how to prevent it

[Stevens]

it's like playing fighting games with your friends when you were kids, just jumping in at each other and attacking without giving it any thought

Hahaha. This one got me. Jump in followed by cr.rh. Good times.