The Guardian Legend Tribute and 1cc run in SHMUP mode

[Aggro Sky]

Hello all, it's 2018 and I've decided to start taking my SHMUP YouTube channel seriously, seriously! So for my first real vid in 4k, I wanted to tackle the Guardian Legend on the NES. As I normally do, I 1cc'd the game, except I decided to just use the TGL password and do it in SHMUP mode (for obvious reasons).

Leading up to the run, I did a 2 minute tribute of sorts to the game and talked a bit about it's influence and why I feel it is an important and influential game. The run itself was recorded on an original model 2 NES with RGB out. It was capped in 1080p 60fps and upscaled to 4k. It's probably the most crisp picture you will ever get from original NES hardware. It looks damn near flawless. I don't know of anyone else doing original retro hardware in 4k, although knowing this world.. someone is lol...

I also animated every boss sprite in the game, in 4k. I included them along the way whenever a boss fight starts. I figured because The Guardian Legend was pushing the NES so hard (and as a result, causing a lot of flicker with the bosses) it would be cool to see the actual bosses completely intact in all their glory while the fight was happening. Here is an example with the boss Grim Grin:



And as always, I provided commentary on the run. I think The Guardian Legend is an incredible game, even just the SHMUP mode is better than 90% of the other SHMUPS on the NES. I'm sure most of you here are familiar with it, but if you aren't, you should absolutely check it out. Also, feedback and suggestions are always appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwB8ejubBPU&t=2s

[OmegaFlareX]

That intro portion looked professionally done and stylish as fuck. Marvelous job, do more stuff like that.

Now, the bad news. The run commentary wasn't that good, maybe work on that for next time. Specifically you mentioned some incorrect or misleading things (was a bit confused by your description of health/chips), and were not sure of others (names of bosses, etc.). That's fine during a livestream but not for a production that you can edit. One gameplay criticism is that you didn't use any special weapons on Blue Optomon, something like the repeller or well-timed fireballs make that fight a lot easier. Also calling yourself "Shmup Master" is a little pretentious, don't you think? Especially when your videos are console-only (easymode shmups). That's a title more suitable to Perikles or Jaimers, but I doubt they would be that narcissistic.

I'm now interested in seeing high-scoring TGL mode runs to find out A) what the strats are to kill as much shit as possible and B) what kind of extra items they give you for doing so.

[Mantrox]

Ace production in every respect. Keep going!

[Aggro Sky]

That intro portion looked professionally done and stylish as fuck. Marvelous job, do more stuff like that.

Now, the bad news. The run commentary wasn't that good, maybe work on that for next time. Also calling yourself "Shmup Master" is a little pretentious, don't you think? Especially when your videos are console-only (easymode shmups). That's a title more suitable to Perikles or Jaimers, but I doubt they would be that narcissistic.

I'm now interested in seeing high-scoring TGL mode runs to find out A) what the strats are to kill as much shit as possible and B) what kind of extra items they give you for doing so.

Glad you enjoyed the intro! If you like that style, check out my video on Thunder Force 4. It's that, except 20+ minutes long

And thanks for the brutally honest feedback! I will address your concerns...

First, I agree. That was not my best commentary track, by a long shot. I equate it to the game taking over an hour to beat with 23 levels, in groups of 4 that are the same theme. Lot's of repetition. So it's hard to keep coming up with interesting things to say, especially with all the re-skinned bosses etc. Maybe it's just not the best game for commentary perhaps? Although I'm sure you appreciated all the re-animated boss sprites, that took a really long time, and no one else on YT is doing gameplay vids like that from what I can tell.

Next... Is the name SHMUP Master pretentious? I can see where you could get that idea (although I'm being honest when I say that you are the first person to bring it up). But I never meant it to sound like "I'M THE GREATEST SHMUP PLAYER EVAR!". I meant it to be more like, I'm the guy who masters SHMUPS and uploads the footage. Not saying I'm the best, just that I try to master the games I feature on my channel. After all, 1ccing a game is the entire reason I started these videos in the first place.

But here is where I take issue with something you said. Saying I only tackle "console only easymode SHMUPS" is kind of silly. Unless you are some sort of prodigy, I wouldn't consider Thunder Force 4 (on Maniac), Whip Rush (on Hard) or Insector X (on Hard) easy games (all of which I've 1cc'd on my channel). In fact, the Genesis version of Insector X is a lot harder than it's arcade counter part, and one of the hardest SHMUPS on the Genesis. Hell, even Abadox isn't an EASY game. It's not super difficult, but not a cake walk either. I totally respect people who like Bullet Hell Cave shooters, (many of which I agree put these older games to shame in terms of difficulty) but those aren't really my thing.

Now, if by saying "easymode SHMUPS" you are talking about watered down Arcade NES ports, then yeah, I've covered exactly 2 of those. Gradius and Legendary Wings, both of which I consider pretty easy and which I stated numerous times in my commentary. But if you actually watch those videos you'll see that I did some different things with them other than just 1cc the game and upload the footage like any other lazy Joe Schmo does. So before you browse some thumbnails on my channel and cast judgement, try checking out a few of the vids first, that's my suggestion.

Lastly, I think you may have missed the entire point of my channel. Which is to provide high quality 1cc runs ONLY on original hardware and in the highest picture quality possible. Therefore many of the "hardmode" arcade games I can't cover because I'd either have to emulate them, or find an actual arcade machine, which ain't gonna happen. I personally don't care for emulation because it isn't perfectly accurate. Granted, many old arcade SHMUPS have been ported to later consoles such as the PS1, PS2, 360 etc in their original forms. So perhaps one of those is in my future...

At any rate, sorry for the long response. But I wanted to clarify my stance and what the goal of my channel is. It's not to be THE BEST, or brag about being the best SHMUP player, it's just a channel about SHMUPS, and we need as many of those as we can get

*edit*

I just noticed your Avatar... I find it odd that you would tell me I'm playing too many easy games when you have Salamander as your Avatar, a game that is not particularly difficult... Just sayin!

[Aggro Sky]

Ace production in every respect. Keep going!

Thank you! Very much appreciated!

[OmegaFlareX]

I equate it to the game taking over an hour to beat with 23 levels, in groups of 4 that are the same theme. Lot's of repetition. So it's hard to keep coming up with interesting things to say, especially with all the re-skinned bosses etc. Maybe it's just not the best game for commentary perhaps?

The game itself isn't the problem; My point about the post-commentary is that due to its nature, you can and should take the effort to edit it since your goal is a nice presentation. The gap in quality between the intro and 1CC footage is quite large. I think you can make anything compelling with enough work. And yes, I did enjoy the animated boss sprites.

But here is where I take issue with something you said. Saying I only tackle "console only easymode SHMUPS" is kind of silly. Unless you are some sort of prodigy, I wouldn't consider Thunder Force 4 (on Maniac), Whip Rush (on Hard) or Insector X (on Hard) easy games (all of which I've 1cc'd on my channel).

I'll give you that, on higher difficulties console shmups might be on-par with their AC counterparts. Well some of them, maybe. I'm going off of my own experiences and Perikles' excellent difficulty ranking thread.

Lastly, I think you may have missed the entire point of my channel. Which is to provide high quality 1cc runs ONLY on original hardware and in the highest picture quality possible.

I get that you want the highest quality, that's a good thing to provide.

Therefore many of the "hardmode" arcade games I can't cover because I'd either have to emulate them, or find an actual arcade machine, which ain't gonna happen. I personally don't care for emulation because it isn't perfectly accurate.

This is bad, though. Emulation has come a long, long way and are good preservations of software these days. Input lag notwithstanding, although projects like GroovyMAME and RetroArch are starting to work on improving that as well. You simply cannot call yourself a shmup master and, as your name implies, aim to provide a curative-and-or-skillful take on the genre when you refuse to cover the arcade gold standard.

You should change your channel name to Console Shmup Galaxy or something (why do you capitalize "shmup"? it's not an acronym), because it is not easy to find good quality, legit 1CCs or score runs of console ports on YT. You'd be filling a gap in footage, for sure.

I just noticed your Avatar... I find it odd that you would tell me I'm playing too many easy games when you have Salamander as your Avatar, a game that is not particularly difficult... Just sayin!

Do not personally attack me. This thread is about you, not me, and this sort of thing is not helping the notion I have that you're full of yourself. If you ask everyone for feedback and then brush off some negative criticism with essentially "well your opinion doesn't count because you're not a good enough player to judge me", I feel that's extremely poor form.

[Aggro Sky]

Also calling yourself "Shmup Master" is a little pretentious, don't you think? Especially when your videos are console-only (easymode shmups). That's a title more suitable to Perikles or Jaimers, but I doubt they would be that narcissistic.

So calling me pretentious, narcissistic and that I only play "easymode shmups" isn't considered a personal attack? Dude, there's a difference between constructive criticism and down right insults. I think I handled it pretty well considering you insulted me three times in one paragraph lol. I'd say you made it personal well before I did. Constructive criticism is fine, I can take it. But when a person feels attacked, it tends to rub them the wrong way (as it did you when I made fun of your Avatar). But this is the internet, and I think sometimes words appearing on a screen can appear more harsh than the person behind the screen meant them to sound. Perhaps that is the issue here.

I agree though, I should have done better than to retaliate with a cheap shot on your Avatar, and for that, I apologize. And I did agree with most of your criticism, you are right, it certainly isn't my best commentary. Mixing up the boss names was really stupid, especially for a game I've been playing for 30 years (and if you notice, I made fun of myself in the video for it). I won't make any more excuses for it, I own my mistakes.

Look, I don't want any bad blood here. In fact, in the 4 years I've been coming to this forum this is the first time I have ever had a negative interaction. I'm not saying I'm perfect or that I'm God's gift to SHMUPS, but I'd wager that anyone who attempts to 1cc a game and succeeds is going to get a bit boastful. I mean, why else do we do it? Other than to feel accomplishment and satisfaction at what we have achieved. I am trying to share that joy with other SHMUP fans, that's all.

Anyway, I apologize if I offended you and I will strive to do better on my next commentary. In the meantime, go watch my Thunder Force 4 1cc on Maniac, the commentary is good on that one

[Sumez]

Honestly, I get where OmegaFlareX is coming from here. Don't take it the wrong way.

You have a channel calling yourself the "shmup master" - that does come across as extremely pretentious. I'm not saying you are bad at these games, but considering we have some extremely skilled players out there who are casually posting 1CC runs of extremely hardcore arcade shooters but don't make any claims to be the masters of anything I can understand why it would rub people the wrong way. Console shmups are typically a lot easier, even if a lot of them are still great. At least you have the right approach to these games, but calling yourself the "master" of anything is bound to set the bar higher than most people can realistically live up to.

For the record, I think your videos are really cool and hope you're gonna keep it up. Console shmups don't get enough love around here.

[BIL]

Next... Is the name SHMUP Master pretentious? I can see where you could get that idea (although I'm being honest when I say that you are the first person to bring it up).

I've seen someone on an unrelated forum have a pop at your YT name, too. I told 'em you seemed a perfectly amicable chap in my book, but they remained a bit tetchy. What I'm getting from all this opprobrium is, you've picked a winning moniker. (edit: being dead serious btw! I wish I'd had the nous to go for a provocative handle, but it's just not in my nature. actually, I'm guessing you never intended to provoke anybody either, so perhaps there's a bit of blind chance there... Good for you in any case)

I think you're doing a good thing here. I like that you treat these games seriously - I suspect latent shooter fans who've only seen the credit-feeder and HARDEST BOSS EVAR extremes might miss the genre's comfy middle ground. On that note, I don't watch your videos expecting brutal world-record intensity, any more than I consult SYO or HFD's formidable replays to relax and enjoy some trivia. Same genre, totally different contexts, as much as the games being featured. Demonstrating even a relatively easy shooter's ins and outs is still perfectly good content either way.

[Mantrox]

I find the name argument very silly.
You can call yourself whatever the hell you want and people either like the content or not.

"Nooo, the shmup master name must be reserved for the greatest champion of the galaxy!" What?

We have a guy who is putting out some high quality content, with relaxed commentary and actually trying to "master" the "shmups" he plays. Where's the dissonance?

[Sumez]

I don't have a problem with the name, but I can easily see why it comes across as stupidly narcissistic. Most people's first thought seeing it would very naturally be "who does this guy think he is?".

[BIL]

I like how he lives dangerously that way.

[Plasmo]

Anyone else got that vibe

[Sumez]

I get surprised every time I see the US cover for that game.

[BIL]

Makes me think of Burger King. :O

I DONT LIKE BURGER KING (・｀W´・)

I rikeu this tho! ¦3

Spoiler

Original:

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(click for full res - WARNING, rather big! JUST LIKE MY HOG)

[BrianC]

I find it funny there's actually a boss named Eyegore. Reminds me of this and this.

[Aggro Sky]

I find the name argument very silly.
You can call yourself whatever the hell you want and people either like the content or not.

"Nooo, the shmup master name must be reserved for the greatest champion of the galaxy!" What?

We have a guy who is putting out some high quality content, with relaxed commentary and actually trying to "master" the "shmups" he plays. Where's the dissonance?

Thanks man, I appreciate that.

Frankly this entire thread has made me kind of sad. Mainly because my channel isn't about me at all, it's about SHMUPS and the joy of "mastering" them. That's it. There are no other ulterior motives or me trying to be the best ever player or whatever. I do it for fun, period. The fact that people here find the need to nit pick the name of my channel is kind of silly. Granted, I see where you are coming from, and if you think I'm pretentious or whatever, then fine, whatever, don't watch.

you've picked a winning moniker. (edit: being dead serious btw! I wish I'd had the nous to go for a provocative handle, but it's just not in my nature. actually, I'm guessing you never intended to provoke anybody either, so perhaps there's a bit of blind chance there... Good for you in any case)

Thanks BIL, and don't worry, the name isn't changing, despite what some overly nit-picky people might think

Anyone else got that vibe

Yup, I believe it was Hardcore Gaming 101 that originally found that comparison. It's kind of hilarious. Which reminds me...



Pretty sure I mentioned it in a thread here at some point, but I interviewed Moo Niitani recently and that was the moment I showed him the cover art for the NA Guardian Legend. He must have laughed for 2 minutes straight! He says that Compile had no control over what the publishers decided to do with their games over seas when it came to marketing. Doesn't surprise me, but was neat hearing it from the man himself.

Anyway, the whole reason I made this thread was so we could discuss THE GUARDIAN LEGEND, not debate the name of my channel or the level of obsession I apparently have with myself. So with that in mind, does anyone else have anything to add about this game? I'd love to discuss more... it is one of my favorite games of all time.

[BIL]

That picture is so perfect - looks like Niitani is vigorously denying any responsibility. That interview finally convinced me to pick up Ghostbusters MD, I couldn't stand not having it after the talk of it being Compile's only platformer! Suddenly Musha+Dennin Aleste and the Puyo duo felt terribly incomplete.

TGL... main things that come to mind atm are actually on-foot. Those bouncing anemone minibosses... I always get my ass handed to me by the red one (organic zone) whenever it's been a while. I think even the green forest variant got me last time, too! IIRC, using the two-way lightsaber and moving in a figure 8 pattern will shred 'em while evading their relentless barging, but yeah - weird difficulty spike (think you mentioned this aspect of TGL in the video). Do you have a particular method for them?

Sorry if OT, I've not gotten into TGL mode properly yet (recent Famicom arrival, having grown up with the NES).

Also, always wondered if it was just me that really liked letting those furiously-multiplying spiders infest the screen, then frantically trying to exterminate the lot sans Enemy Eraser. I coulda gone for a whole game of that, haha.

Bit of FC version trivia, Guardic Gaiden's TGL password is the equivalent of "ALG," which I initially found a bit random... checking the back of the manual though, there's a really cool-looking insignia emblazoned with Another Legend of Guardic. I like this sort of stuff.

[Sumez]

I never played past the first stage of The Guardian Legend, it's one of those games that have been in my "stack of shame" backlog for years. In fact it might even be the one that has been there the longest of all.

I originally got this game as a kid after finding a local store with some NES games in a bargain bin (extremely rare for NES games which were usually absurdly expensive where I live) and I was allowed to pick one game. I hadn't heard of any of them, so went entirely by the box, and Guardian Legend looked absolutely amazing. Keep in mind this wasn't in America, so this is the cover I was seeing:



And the back of the box showed what looked like top-down exploration stages, a concept that was extremely compelling to me despite not having any games of the type myself at the time (not even Zelda). When I got home to play it and was immediately booted into a shmup screen I was beyond disappointed. As a kid I had no idea what was good for me and hated those games - a stance I severely regret nowadays.
I never even got to the top-down section immediately following the short shooter intro. Instead we took the game back to the store and were allowed to trade it in for another game in the aforementioned bargain bin. I ended up with Solstice instead.

Ten or so years later when I started getting into "retro" collecting and started buying up all the NES games I felt like I was missing in my collection I was really anxious to find this game again, but I couldn't remember the title. An acquaintance who was just starting up an online NES webshop (an absurd concept at the time, but he's been surprisingly succesful, and nowadays he was central to the recent boost in retro collecting around here) suggested the game to me and told him I could buy it from him, making it one of the first NES games I got to re-add to my collection since the ones I had kept from the old days.

And yeah, I still didn't complete it. What an ass I am.

[BIL]

Couple distinct resemblances to my own childhood experiences of the game, there. Namely things being ridiculously overpriced, due to customs markups (despite cultural+geographic proximity, even US stuff was technically "import" to us), and my not making it past the opening STG bit during my rental. I try to recall this whenever I'm tempted to think "they can't handle that game?!" Granted I was like seven, but total STG inexperience (aside from a brutal shutdown by Life Force's opening deathtrap parade, sending me scarpering back to Mario 3) was the prime factor methinks. I'm sure I'd have scraped by given time but yeah, rental + noob beatdown = scurred. Ain't trying that one next weekend! Oh hey what's this "Platoon," neat cover - oh nooo!

On that first rental, I remember trying the "TGL" password ("for a big surprise," infamous hack fraud Jeff Rovin assured me). But of course if you're not making it past stage 1, you'd have no idea anything was different. I was really surprised when I watched one of those crummy "US Videogame Team" tapes, and the first Guardian Legend clip was its topdown mode. Wuut!

Several years later (well into the PS1 generation) I lucked out with a mangy secondhand copy from a friend who'd dumped all his NES stuff. Had a blast cracking it open after all that time, muddling through with no guides or manual whatsoever. It's a very straightforward game - find the keys for the area doors, locate the "corridor" gates within, commence shmupping action, repeat. But the large map and the way you criss-cross it seeking the latest zone, encountering new monsters and gear all the while, give it a great roving feel. The map screen is super-helpful without overly spelling things out, too.

Much more recently I was hesitant to reacquire it for my FC collection, wanting to concentrate on single-sitting action games - particularly as, just like Getsu Fuuma Den, Downtown Nekketsu and Dengeki Big Bang, those huge JP-language passwords are intimidating to a non-reader. But besides the lure of TGL mode (or えいえるじい mode if you're booting the FC version), I've actually marathonned the full game a few times since. Far too long to do often, but it's surprisingly compulsive between the steady buildup of stats+gear and Compile's typically breezy shooting. Plus you can rip through the dungeons once you've got the basic layout down.

I've kept TGL mode for a rainy day - I'm intrigued by the channeling of loot grabbing to pure STG performance, but it's lengthy enough that I moved onto other FC shooters.

Besides massive moon-rune passwords, I blame Blaster Master/Metafight for turning me onto feature-length FC action/adventure (you've got no choice in that one). I find it charming how longer action games of that vintage generally couldn't fall back on today's more recreational open world/toybox aspescts, instead gradually expanding their basic mechanics and explorable space. Metroid being the obvious example ofc, but Faxanadu and Hebereke have become recent favourites of mine too.

[Sumez]

To be fair, the opening shooter segment in TGL is bound to kill off people the first time they try it. Things move super fast, and you need to pretty much expect their attacks before they happen as if they were the fast aimed bullets of a Psikyo shooter. Knowing what's to come it's incredibly easy to make it through, but as a little kid at the time who expected to be able to see stuff and then dodge accordingly, The Guardian Legend just felt ridiculously cheap.

[BIL]

I wouldn't call it quite that bad. Stuff is coming down briskly, but it's not unreactable - I bullshit my way through more or less blind every time (years between my last few replays). The vast majority is destructible, too - just holding B will help. FC Salamander & Gradius II's st3/st1 flares are more my idea of unreactable. Whenever it's been a while, I know I'm gonna get chomped a few times until I remember where it's near-certain death to be.

I dunno, I'm sure it's nearly impossible to truly remember what TGL was like blind back then... but objectively speaking, if I were playtesting something similar, I don't think I'd consider it excessive. The speed some of Recca's zako come rocketing downscreen at is a bit nuts, even in its earlier stages, but again it's all usually destructible by the default shot. That's closer but still not quite at the "you are already shot" / "dodge THIS, asshole!" Psikyo ethos.

I have heard others complain of Compile's characteristically hyperkinetic BG scrolling, actually I complain about similar in other games like Raiden III, but that's more to do with its penchant for yellow bullets atop yellowy sunset fields.

The shield's gigantic hitbox is the bigger liability in TGL, I think. It makes even st1's drifting inert obstacles deadly to be near, and if you don't have good bullet-herding fundamentals, the trench run can easily hem you in - despite their bullets being destructible and not particularly quick. I distinctly remember making it to the trench back then - the awesomely metallic *PAN* *PAN* firing SFX stuck in my head, as did the elegiac music and rushing BG earlier... man this takes me back. I was really "lemme at it! that game was shaweet!" when I got that secondhand copy.

[Aggro Sky]

Thanks for the stories everyone! I love hearing how people discovered this game. If you watched my vid then you saw how I discovered it, as a gift from my Uncle back in 89 for my birthday. I have a couple things I want to respond to in the above posts but I'm on my phone and this site is not mobile friendly in the least lol... I'll write more later.

[Koa Zo]

I interviewed Moo Niitani recently

Speaking of which, has that interview been translated and posted anywhere yet? Been looking forward to it!

[Aggro Sky]

I interviewed Moo Niitani recently

Speaking of which, has that interview been translated and posted anywhere yet? Been looking forward to it!

No, sadly. If I spoke Japanese, it would have been done 2 months ago. But my friend in Japan has been super busy and so I'm waiting on him... Hopefully soon!