Akai Katana has been added to the Mame source

[CloudyMusic]

I understand the argument but I don't recall dying in a Cave game because of disappeared sprites.

I've died to that multiple times before in Futari BL God, and I'm not even good at it nor have I played it very much. Big cancels in stage 2 seemed to do it to me pretty frequently.

When you're weaving through super-tight spaces, intentionally leaving enemies alive (and nearby) for future cancels, and then your ship suddenly vanishes, that's a big problem, lol.

[d0s]

do you think that stuff in MAME doesn't change or something and that the way it plays now is gonna be the way it plays forever?

the noticeable input delay is literally built into cv1k games, it didn't go away in the ports (except for m2 futari) and it won't ever go away in mame unless you change the games themselves
emulation always adds a bit more delay on top of everything no matter how hard you try as far as I know and that one frame is much worse when the game already has lag (assuming it even is only one frame)
compared to something like that tiny extra bit in doj that changes nothing, it's a fairly big deal

on the other hand I could easily see a 360 emulator eventually having better futari than mame will ever have, not to mention the chances of some of the games ending up on steam or other consoles later on

the point of MAME is so people can have these debates and prove the stuff you're saying, like all people who want to not just a couple rich french guys with PCBs, so it doesn't just become dumb rumors. I'd be the last person who suggests playing seriously in an emulator (e: something that recent), I'd rather play a good console port also, but preserving the original shit is cool and important

[donluca]

speaking of lagless emulation, I couldn't even find a version of garegga in mame that's "lagless" and detects my arcade stick (not even remapping works, the emulator straight up ignores that)
not to mention that shmupmame 2.2 is hilariously unstable and the only one with decent garegga and batrider (sometimes it suicides on your computer permanently and the only solution is to reinstall windows) and it also has less lag than 4.2 in dodonpachi (but doesn't support savestates at the same time?)
on top of that nimitz posted no updates to shmupmame since 2013 and explicitly said that he's not touching cv1k because it's too recent

If you have some time to spare, check the groovymame project. It's basically MAME done right, although it requires a bit of tinkering. There are lots of tutorials around, give it a shot, especially if you're playing on a CRT.

[stacks183]

Between PCB, Xbox 360 and Steam ports, and MAME, MAME versions of CV1000 games are definitely worst in terms of playability. However, they are still highly playable and they allow to experience these games for those people who for one reason or another cannot go for any other version. Input lag is there, but it is way to small to be noticeable for the majority of people. There are native PC shmups with more input lag than MAME has in Cave games (for example, Touhou EoSD), yet, people play them with no difficulties whatsoever. And as for the slowdown, by tweaking several settings, you can get it to occur in all or almost all instances where it occurs on PCB, beating even some ports like PS2 Mushi and Steam Deathsmiles in terms of slowdown accuracy.

Personally, I play all CV1000 games on MAME. I own 360 and some Cave games for it, but I'm just too used to playing on keyboard and can't get any enjoyment out of using controllers for my shmups. Having an input device that I'm comfortable with is way more important to me, than having arcade port with a couple less milliseconds of lag. Once Xbox 360 emulations gets there, I will definitely switch out. Xenia already runs most Cave games, albeit with crashes and bad graphics. SaiDaiOuJou goes in game, but crashes after the intro, however, you can actually play DFK and Espgaluda 2. Both games have major graphical glitches, but other than they, they both play at full speed. Both Mushi games also go into gameplay, but have really glitchy graphics. Anyway, I don't think good Xbox 360 emulation is that far away. Maybe its a couple of years off, maybe less.

[Plasmo]

but the fact that your player ship and enemy bullets can disappear in more than one of their games is indefensible.

Is there a single CAVE game where your own ship and other sprites don't disappear at times due to overload? It's surely taken to an extreme in DFKBL, but it was a common feature beginning with their very first game.

This has nothing to do with a particular hardware. It's common CAVE.

[Cee]

Is there a single CAVE game where your own ship and other sprites don't disappear at times due to overload? It's surely taken to an extreme in DFKBL, but it was a common feature beginning with their very first game.

This has nothing to do with a particular hardware. It's common CAVE.

I don't recall it happening in the first gen releases but you are correct the fault lay with cave being shoddy.

[Cee]

speaking of lagless emulation, I couldn't even find a version of garegga in mame that's "lagless" and detects my arcade stick (not even remapping works, the emulator straight up ignores that)
not to mention that shmupmame 2.2 is hilariously unstable and the only one with decent garegga and batrider

i use shmupmame 3.0b for batrider which was good enough for me, 4.2 has years of lag for some reason on raizing.

[Plasmo]

Is there a single CAVE game where your own ship and other sprites don't disappear at times due to overload? It's surely taken to an extreme in DFKBL, but it was a common feature beginning with their very first game.

This has nothing to do with a particular hardware. It's common CAVE.

I don't recall it happening in the first gen releases but you are correct the fault lay with cave being shoddy.

It's nowhere near as bad as some SH3 titles, but the same phenomenon also occurs in Donpachi (invisible bullets that can still hit you, super annoying), Dodonpachi (flickering in various places), Esprade etc.

[Some-Mist]

Shame it's wank.

The Katana version is good.

I actually prefer the arcade mode tbh, and I booted it up again yesterday and was surprised how much I missed the AK formula.
I had a horrible couple of runs up to stage 4, but then rewatched my leaderboard replay and forgot how intensely aggressive you can play it.

Other than the uninspired bosses which is a critique I agree with, I think it's super underrated.

[evil_ash_xero]

Shame it's wank.

The Katana version is good.

I actually prefer the arcade mode tbh, and I booted it up again yesterday and was surprised how much I missed the AK formula.
I had a horrible couple of runs up to stage 4, but then rewatched my leaderboard replay and forgot how intensely aggressive you can play it.

Other than the uninspired bosses which is a critique I agree with, I think it's super underrated.

I way prefer the Shin version, but everyone has different tastes. I definitely like the original soundtrack better than the Shin remixed one, and always change it to that.

[AntiFritz]

Do the pcbs for deathsmiles MBL do that thing where it covers the whole screen with the sprite sheet when there's too many sprites onscreen? Happens all the time on 360 in the ice palace for me.

[Illyrian]

Hey so did the AK emulation ever get upgraded/enhanced etc? Or is it still the same as it was over a year ago?

[Xyga]

Nothing's changed in cv1k emulation so nothing's changed for akatana either...
Don't expect these games to play right before many years in the future, from the little I gathered the missing 'wait states' emulation would require a deep redesign of MAME, it's not about just one hardware driver and a handful of titles, but a massive portion of the whole emulator's architecture.
Rejoice though, our kids or grandkids might enjoy accurate emulation, some day, maybe (assuming in their lifetime they ever find interest in ancient tech pop culture relics)

[bomgelado46]

Hello guys.
23/12/2019
Where's ddpsdoj?
Degica and Cave is not interrested to release a Steam Port as i can see, in fact they are going to release Deathsmilles 1 & 2 and for now still the unknown system to be announced.

[el_rika]

Hello guys.
23/12/2019
Where's ddpsdoj?
Degica and Cave is not interrested to release a Steam Port as i can see, in fact they are going to release Deathsmilles 1 & 2 and for now still the unknown system to be announced.

Nobody here can give you the answer you seek. The story is either this or that:

1. It is already dumped but kept private by people that A. care a great deal about Cave and by not releasing the rom are helping Cave still make a lot of money (...yeah) B. have a big ego and simply don't want to release it.
2. The PCB is rare/expensive and the people that have the tools to dump the rom would do it any day if someone would lend them a Sdoj PCB.

[Udderdude]

Haze had a few choice words about that a few months ago ..

https://i.reddit.com/r/emulation/commen ... t/.compact

Just buy the 360 version. It's region free, and 360's are easily obtainable. Plus, you can turn off the scoring bug! Yay!

[Xyga]

Not happening any easily at all indeed.

Reminds me that just a few years ago someone launched the idea of redumping every Cave shmup to rewrite better emulation.
That was kind of funny to read b/c he apparently wasn't aware of how priced the boards are nor how anal collectors are about Cave.

SDOJ in MAME may happen, but it is useless to speculate when. Could be tomorrow, could be in 20 years, no kidding.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Haze had a few choice words about that a few months ago ..

https://i.reddit.com/r/emulation/commen ... t/.compact

Interesting stuff, there:

My role was improving and optimizing the actual driver so that it ran well on current PCs, that job is done, the rest really is up to other people (both new dumps, and further driver improvements to accurately model the slowdowns, that isn't of much interest to me)

This is the sad story of Mame, isnt it? Highly talented people behind, yet none of them was never a gamer.

the Dumping Union won't release SDOJ as long as there is a chance it will be reissued on Steam etc.

Chances of Cave ever caring about Steam again are so thin, that it's odd ading that as an excuse, but I guess it's an old comment which just got extrapolated.

[pegboy]

How do you even go about dumping the CV1000 PCB ROMs? Is it difficult?

[Buffi]

How do you even go about dumping the CV1000 PCB ROMs? Is it difficult?

I would assume:
Remove the SMD roms with hot air station
Put then in SMD adapter for ROM programmer
Dump
Solder back on pcb

Shouldnt be that hard if you know what youre doing, but there is a small chance of messing up and killing ICs

[Xyga]

The problem is money, not dumping or emulation.

[Buffi]

Yup. Dumping it isnt harder than any of the other cv1000 games

[bomgelado46]

How about now? Soon release the latest version in EXA Label...

[Udderdude]

You came back here almost a year later just to keep begging?

[DietSoap]

Absolute madlad.