DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

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Zen
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Zen »

NickPalmerDegica wrote:Awww, they pushed the slowdown fix while I was asleep. I wanted to announce that here :B.

They had it in testing all last week. It should get rid of most of the egregious stuff. Please play through it everyone and tell us if you are spotting anything wrong still with BLA.
Thats a bummer, man :(
With all the stick you have been taking on here, it would have been sweet to announce this particular patch :wink:
Anyway, appreciate Degica keeping the pressure on Cave. Good stuff.
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Iaspis
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Iaspis »

Is the first-time-switch-to-fullscreen-crash bug fixed now?
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MaXXX
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by MaXXX »

Nice, been waiting to give this mode a try
Blem
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Blem »

Great to hear, I'll be getting a lot more playtime in now that the mode is working.

I assume this means the game will continue to receive patch support for a while?
Dracuify
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Dracuify »

Tried a few training sessions against hivac, excessive slowdown is gone atleast :)
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CStarFlare
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by CStarFlare »

With that, I think I'll throw Resurrection on my wishlist. Tell Cave we really appreciate the attention to this issue, and look forward to an improvement to Deathsmiles. :)
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defected78
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by defected78 »

Well done Nick for giving them the feedback.

We love cave IP so its right they did this.

Getting deathsmiles fixed would put you even higher on the pedestal.
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NickPalmerDegica
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by NickPalmerDegica »

I think I'd give our JP team and CAVE more credit than me, I just report things.
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clippa
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by clippa »

You're the one on the front line, taking all the kickings. It's only fair that you get the credit when things go right. Cheers nick!
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Skykid »

Good to see they resolved this eventually. I don't think Deathsmiles is a good enough game to warrant the effort of fixing, but what you really want to do is finally get around to that SDOJ 1.5 port with perfect accuracy and zero input lag. I know you've been holding off on that one!
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defected78
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by defected78 »

seeing as the other two are fixed why not bring it up to standard.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Bananamatic »

Skykid wrote:SDOJ 1.5 port with perfect accuracy and zero input lag
I suspect that the ketsuipachi issues were just a minor bug causing major issues (it was pretty damn obvious that the rank gauge going into red caused the slowdown rather than the slowdown being broken in every case)

chances are that sdoj having extra input lag over the other cave 360 ports is also something dumb that can be removed in less than a day but a "lagless" release like futari isn't happening in a million years

perfect accuracy isn't happening either, perfectly replicating all the slowdown for 3 shot types, 2 subtypes per shot and 3 hyper states across 50 rank levels is likely close to impossible (especially in the edge cases where in the arcade the slowdown is going on/off constantly during the attack you're either getting no slowdown or full slowdown in the port, this happens both in sdoj and futari 360)
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Zen
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Zen »

Skykid wrote:Good to see they resolved this eventually. I don't think Deathsmiles is a good enough game to warrant the effort of fixing, but what you really want to do is finally get around to that SDOJ 1.5 port with perfect accuracy and zero input lag. I know you've been holding off on that one!
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Jinki »

Hope this finally solves one key issue, but there are lot more to go, too many to even be a little happy yet. Surely, if all 3 games get fixed up, a lesson will be learned here and we can expect better releases moving forward. I can't imagine this is efficient work at all.
ZacharyB wrote:Jinki, what do you mean? How would Degica exactly "bust CAVE's tail"? Degica likely already paid for the rights to publish the game. They have no leverage over CAVE. CAVE would have to fix it at their own cost.

It's all on CAVE.

I agree that this costs CAVE, at least in reputation. But Degica's hands are tied.

It's all on CAVE if and only if you have no clue how a publisher developer relationship is supposed to work. Before explaining, if it doesn't work this way, it's not working properly.

The publisher [Degica] is the boss, the money-holder, the requester of the game. They commission the developer [CAVE] to make them a product that they can sell to their [the publisher's] audience. In this case Degica went to CAVE to fund them for PC ports of their games to turn and sell on Steam. CAVE could have refused this offer, but accepted - Degica then releases funds for development and a port is created.

The other way - CAVE could have had ports made and were shopping a publisher to license their games in the west, on Steam, and Degica paid up for them. This could be the case with their relationship given the nature of things, but highly unlikely in most other cases, especially for non ports or simultaneous releases.

Either way, the publisher has last say over what gets released. They sign the developer's paycheck - if they are sold a crap product/service, it's on them to get the developer to make good on their investment.

I'll tell you a cool story:

Ubisoft Massive is the developer behind Ubisoft's The Division. The only issue with the game months prior to going to the printer, was the overuse of a singular generic enemy model [reskins] and some not so bad bullet sponging that could be circumvented. Still not really my cup of tea, but the experience that was set to release at that time was completely in line with what people were expecting from the game. About that time Ubisoft, a publisher, not a game developer, watched gameplay/"played" [generally a round-table and someone very inept at gaming plays and "suits" talk about "well, this looks too hard, this sounds too mean, 5 minutes to level at 10 is too long" etc.] the same ready to print build a bunch of other folks did and instead of sharing their opinions, sent a laundry lists of demands that had to be made before Massive could send the game off. This list [ironically massive] caused the game to be so poorly received by gamers - Massive knew this, QA knew this, interns, everyone that had anything to do with the game that had actual gaming knowledge [playing knowledge specifically] or developed it knew this was going to happen. However, when the boss tells you to do something, you may kick and scream a little, but ultimately you either quit [career suicide likely] and they find someone else to pick it up, or you do it.

The game releases to a massive "this isn't the game it was supposed to be" storm. It does pretty poor and finally the publisher cleared Massive for Patch 1.4. What most people will never know about Patch 1.4 is that it wasn't a massive overhaul of the game, it was Ubisoft allowing Massive to revert back to the game they originally designed, with what they could - unfortunately though, so much time had lapsed that there was no way to get it all back, not even close. As time goes on in an online game, you just can't go changing certain aspects without upsetting balances, QoL scales, etc.

Just let it sink in that, there was a release delay that effectively detracted from the experience instead of making it better. And while working on this, the developer knew they were effectively poisoning their own creation.

This is publishing in the gaming industry 99.9% of the time, even with third-party developers. On the rare occasion you get a power couple from, say, Infinity Ward that creates a new studio and lands a deal with EA and they get to make some sweet demands, but that is far, far few and between the norm.
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blackrabite
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by blackrabite »

Hey, had a few questions from my experience w/ Ketsuipachi so far:

A+C shot alone is not enough to generate rank bar. Ketsui chip chains seem to apply a higher coefficient to your shot's rank generation specific to the value of the governing chip (10 > 5 > 4 .. etc). Generally, w/o at least SOME kind of active chip value, rank is not sustainable (outside of bosses), even with A+C. Any other tips on keeping that bar cranked? I am not too familiar with DFK Black Label mechanics as it is, but rank generation seems slightly altered in order to highlight that Ketsui aggression.

Also, what effect does my hyper meter / maximum bonus have on scoring? If I want my hit chain's value & multiplier to be in effect, is that burden shifted entirely to keeping rank red/maxed? Or does hyper meter / stock / state have any direct effect on scoring?

Is it ideal to use hyper activation to build hit chain earlier, generating 10-chips from cancelled bullets? And then use them outside of an active chip chain later on in order to generate point stars? Generally, I just try to build up as high a hit chain as possible by whatever means necessary while keeping rank red. Thank you for the help!
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by ZacharyB »

Jinki,

Thank you for the correction. I replied with that information because I had heard of Japanese developers reaching out to publishers to bring their work here, perhaps because of the difficulties of Japanese people publishing through Steam.

Although, Deathsmiles being stuck in perpetual bugfix limbo makes me think that there are other factors of resource at play.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Glick »

blackrabite wrote:Hey, had a few questions from my experience w/ Ketsuipachi so far:

A+C shot alone is not enough to generate rank bar. Ketsui chip chains seem to apply a higher coefficient to your shot's rank generation specific to the value of the governing chip (10 > 5 > 4 .. etc). Generally, w/o at least SOME kind of active chip value, rank is not sustainable (outside of bosses), even with A+C. Any other tips on keeping that bar cranked? I am not too familiar with DFK Black Label mechanics as it is, but rank generation seems slightly altered in order to highlight that Ketsui aggression.

Also, what effect does my hyper meter / maximum bonus have on scoring? If I want my hit chain's value & multiplier to be in effect, is that burden shifted entirely to keeping rank red/maxed? Or does hyper meter / stock / state have any direct effect on scoring?

Is it ideal to use hyper activation to build hit chain earlier, generating 10-chips from cancelled bullets? And then use them outside of an active chip chain later on in order to generate point stars? Generally, I just try to build up as high a hit chain as possible by whatever means necessary while keeping rank red. Thank you for the help!
The one reliable way to keep RED maxed is to simply start a 10-chip chain (point-blank an enemy) and then keep it going with A+C so the 10-chips rain. This is pretty much the core mechanic for scoring in this arrange. When playing correctly you should be aggressive as hell, killing enemies ASAP, a lot like a standard Ketsui run.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Bananamatic »

Except the chips don't really add score on their own and you get a lot more than you'd need just to stay in red rank
You can also easily spam hypers over and over to reset the counter with no effort
with bullet cancelling not giving you points compared to regular BL, it's a pretty shallow mode that's not like ketsui at all
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blackrabite
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by blackrabite »

aaaaanyway I understand chips don't directly contribute to score. But, the constant accumulation of them is needed to keep rank red & apply multiplier/accumulator to killed enemies, and a high Hit counter directly affects score from shootings bosses in red/killing them, right?

Also, is there hyper rank that affects bullet speed outside of hyper state? I think I am too stingy with my hypers in later stages as it is (and probably forcing red rank in stages where I can't handle it yet). But if I blow through them, it'd be nice to know if it was gonna ramp up the difficulty regardless.

Finally, I need to do my own testing on it, but compared to the points I get from killing a boss in max red rank with a high hit chain: is it worth trying to use hypers outside of chip chain to cancel bullets for star medals?
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NickPalmerDegica
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by NickPalmerDegica »

http://steamcommunity.com/games/464450/ ... 3101054813

To celebrate the BLA OST release (plus the fixes) we are holding a Black (Friday) Label Arrange Score Attack Contest!
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Bananamatic
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Bananamatic »

blackrabite wrote:with a high hit chain
hit counter doesn't matter except for multiplier breakpoints
only the GP value matters
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Opus131
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Opus131 »

So is this the last Cave game we are going to see on Steam? Is there hope for more or is this it?
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by OmegaFlareX »

I expect they'll eventually do Akai Katana because it already has a localization, but I'm doubtful of anything else beyond that until they confirm otherwise.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by trap15 »

Akai Katana also already has a Windows port, since it's on NESiCAxLive. I'm honestly shocked they didn't do it as their first steam port.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Jinki »

Opus131 wrote:Is there hope for more or is this it?
Considering you people will buy anything they throw at you, I'd say there is plenty of hope. It's not like they have to make a quality product or anything.
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Opus131
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Opus131 »

Well, you can have you moral crusade against publishers. I'll just take what i can get.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by FunktionJCB »

Jinki wrote:Considering you people will buy anything they throw at you, I'd say there is plenty of hope. It's not like they have to make a quality product or anything.
By now, your comments are beyond pathetic. Whatever something comes up on these boards about Degica, there's sure to be one of your idiotic comments.
Don't like it, don't buy it.

Like it or not, Degica has been responsible for a significant amount of Japanese titles making their way to PC, be it shmups, fighting games, RPGs, and more, that wouldn't have made it otherwise. And you could argue that their work (along with, say, Playism) paved the way for other Japanese publishers to start publishing on Steam.

Pretty much all their titles run flawlessly, and whatever issues come up, they usually are fixed promptly.
So, the Cave titles have a few issues when compared with past releases. That doesn't invalidate the work they've done, and that surely doesn't warrant for you to insult their representative when he shows up on these forums (who is a PR, not a programmer) whenever he publishes an update, or announces something.
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by DoomsDave »

Futari and Espgaluda 2 are localized for iOS so they could apply those to the 360 versions and port.

Also didn't they say there would be at least one more release after DFK or am I mistaken?
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Bananamatic
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Bananamatic »

FunktionJCB wrote:
Jinki wrote:Considering you people will buy anything they throw at you, I'd say there is plenty of hope. It's not like they have to make a quality product or anything.
By now, your comments are beyond pathetic. Whatever something comes up on these boards about Degica, there's sure to be one of your idiotic comments.
Don't like it, don't buy it.

Like it or not, Degica has been responsible for a significant amount of Japanese titles making their way to PC, be it shmups, fighting games, RPGs, and more, that wouldn't have made it otherwise. And you could argue that their work (along with, say, Playism) paved the way for other Japanese publishers to start publishing on Steam.

Pretty much all their titles run flawlessly, and whatever issues come up, they usually are fixed promptly.
So, the Cave titles have a few issues when compared with past releases. That doesn't invalidate the work they've done, and that surely doesn't warrant for you to insult their representative when he shows up on these forums (who is a PR, not a programmer) whenever he publishes an update, or announces something.
pretty sure that was aimed at cave, not degica

mushi still stutters like hell for me
deathsmiles still has absolutely no slowdown
dfk still uploads replays to wrong leaderboards and arrange A has no slowdown and the crash when you press too many buttons at once

actually, fuck it, degica doesn't give a shit either, absolutely no feedback on the steam forums anymore
they're poor ports with almost no support or feedback from either of them, what kind of reply were you expecting?
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Re: DoDonPachi Resurrection - Steam Edition

Post by Xyga »

DoomsDave wrote:Futari and Espgaluda 2 are localized for iOS so they could apply those to the 360 versions and port.

Also didn't they say there would be at least one more release after DFK or am I mistaken?
^ Probably this.

Before I've predicted they would only port licences that already have had an overseas port in the past, whether on mobile OSes or 360.
I strongly suspect this is because they're terrified with the idea of selling westerners a game which they (Cave mainly) think western consumers have never heard the name before.
Basically all the titles officially unknown to the overseas/western markets and audiences are the least likely to ever be ported and localized to PC/Steam.
If we're right with that scenario Galuda II and Futari are indeed the most probable next steps (not even certain they'll port both), after that I doubt there'll be more.
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