General Gradius thread

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What's your favourite entry in the series?

Gradius/Nemesis (Arcade/Famicom/PCE/X68000/PS1/SAT/PSP)
14
8%
Gradius II/Vulcan Venture (Arcade/PCE/X68000/PS1/SAT/PSP)
28
17%
Gradius II (Famicom)
5
3%
Gradius III (Arcade/PS2/PSP)
9
5%
Gradius III (SFC)
17
10%
Gradius IV (Arcade/PS2/PSP)
9
5%
Gradius V (PS2)
36
21%
Nemesis & Nemesis II/Gradius: The Interstellar Assault/Return of the Hero (GB)
1
1%
Gradius Gaiden (PS1/PSP)
42
25%
Gradius ReBirth (Wii)
8
5%
 
Total votes: 169

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FRO
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by FRO »

Jonny2x4 wrote:I get the impression that STGs in general were never popular among U.S. console players, hence why Konami didn't localize most of their stuff here (hence why there was never a Gradius II on the NES or an NTSC-U/C version of Gradius Gaiden), whereas Europe at least got some of the TwinBee and Parodius games released..
The wealth of shooters on the Sega Genesis, and even domestic TurboGrafx releases would beg to differ. Even the SNES got a fair number of decent to good shmups.
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Kobayashi
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Kobayashi »

FRO wrote:I also bought the Arcade Archives version of Gradius on PS4, and found out very quickly that the later model PS4 pads have a terrible D-pad for precision movement, and that the game feels a bit too fast in that port. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if that version is faster than the Deluxe Pack, and definitely faster than on PSP. Maybe it's my perception, because I'm playing on a bigger screen, though even when I shrunk the display down to approximate the size of my CRT (around 32"), it still felt way too fast. I typically go with 2 speed-ups, but on this port, 2 felt too fast. But then 1 felt too slow, so I was constantly fighting that battle. Stage 2, with all the stuff you have to navigate through, is quite difficult with a ship that moves to quickly and a D-pad that is imprecise. I kept careening into platforms, trying to dodge enemy fire.
FRO, was interesting you bring this discussion here, because I see very few comments about the Arcade Archives versions of Gradius I and II for PS4. I own the Arcade Archives of Gradius I, Gradius II and Salamander aka Life Force and I play them on my PS4 Pro on a 4K Panasonic TV. Particularly, I appreciate these versions and I have no complaints about the controls, maybe because I prefer to play them with the analog stick and I think they work very well this way. I never played the PSP versions, but I played a lot Gradius Deluxe Pack (PSX version) and I don't remember differences regarding the fluidity and speed of these games. One of the most interesting things about these Arcade Archives versions is the presence of the regionalized versions (North American, Japanese and European). Online Leaderboards (although limited), and "save state" were also good additions. I highly recommend the Archive Arcade versions of these Gradius games, but it would be interesting to read other opinions here.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by copy-paster »

IIRC the reason Gradius Gaiden never released in US was Sony pf America's policy about "no 2d games on our system mofos" at that time.
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Jonny2x4
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Jonny2x4 »

That didn't seem to be issue with Symphony of the Night and Suikoden though. And it's not like STGs were never localized for the NTSC-U/C PlayStation (see R-Type Delta and Einhander)
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by shoryusatsu999 »

Jonny2x4 wrote:That didn't seem to be issue with Symphony of the Night and Suikoden though. And it's not like STGs were never localized for the NTSC-U/C PlayStation (see R-Type Delta and Einhander)
Konami probably held one of their 3D games hostage to get SotN and Suikoden available in the US, similar to what Capcom did with Resident Evil 2 for Mega Man X4. Also, R-Type Delta and Einhander both had 3D graphics, which let them bypass the "no 2D" rule. Similar things happened with games like Strider 2 and Klonoa, which played in 2D, but had at least partial 3D graphics.
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FRO
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by FRO »

Kobayashi wrote:
FRO wrote:I also bought the Arcade Archives version of Gradius on PS4, and found out very quickly that the later model PS4 pads have a terrible D-pad for precision movement, and that the game feels a bit too fast in that port. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if that version is faster than the Deluxe Pack, and definitely faster than on PSP. Maybe it's my perception, because I'm playing on a bigger screen, though even when I shrunk the display down to approximate the size of my CRT (around 32"), it still felt way too fast. I typically go with 2 speed-ups, but on this port, 2 felt too fast. But then 1 felt too slow, so I was constantly fighting that battle. Stage 2, with all the stuff you have to navigate through, is quite difficult with a ship that moves to quickly and a D-pad that is imprecise. I kept careening into platforms, trying to dodge enemy fire.
FRO, was interesting you bring this discussion here, because I see very few comments about the Arcade Archives versions of Gradius I and II for PS4. I own the Arcade Archives of Gradius I, Gradius II and Salamander aka Life Force and I play them on my PS4 Pro on a 4K Panasonic TV. Particularly, I appreciate these versions and I have no complaints about the controls, maybe because I prefer to play them with the analog stick and I think they work very well this way. I never played the PSP versions, but I played a lot Gradius Deluxe Pack (PSX version) and I don't remember differences regarding the fluidity and speed of these games. One of the most interesting things about these Arcade Archives versions is the presence of the regionalized versions (North American, Japanese and European). Online Leaderboards (although limited), and "save state" were also good additions. I highly recommend the Archive Arcade versions of these Gradius games, but it would be interesting to read other opinions here.
The speed thing could have been my own perception, and possibly also the crappy D-pad on the more recent revision of the PS4 pad. I've heard that launch controllers (minus the light bar) fare better in that regard. Also, yes, the region differences are very interesting! I find it fascinating that when Gradius came to the US as Nemesis, many enemy patterns were changed, and death meant some ability to recover with more power-up granting ships available to take down to get at least some level of power back, but I find the balance to be off, because the game itself is much more brutal and unforgiving, with an absolute hailstorm of bullets coming at you. It makes me wonder if the European release was reverted back to be more in line with the original Japanese arcade release, but kept the Nemesis name for Western branding continuity, because Konami recognized that they already had something good with the original configuration. Or perhaps they didn't perceive European players to want the same level of challenge as what they thought the US audiences wanted? I'd be curious to know more specifically what the thought process was behind that change.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Jonny2x4 »

shoryusatsu999 wrote:
Jonny2x4 wrote:That didn't seem to be issue with Symphony of the Night and Suikoden though. And it's not like STGs were never localized for the NTSC-U/C PlayStation (see R-Type Delta and Einhander)
Konami probably held one of their 3D games hostage to get SotN and Suikoden available in the US, similar to what Capcom did with Resident Evil 2 for Mega Man X4. Also, R-Type Delta and Einhander both had 3D graphics, which let them bypass the "no 2D" rule. Similar things happened with games like Strider 2 and Klonoa, which played in 2D, but had at least partial 3D graphics.
Did Konami even released any noteworthy 3D games back then? Metal Gear Solid didn't came out until late 1998 and Silent Hill wasn't until 1999. Contra: Legacy of War is generally regarded as crap and I don't see much nostalgia for the likes of Broken Helix and Crypt Killer either.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by copy-paster »

copy-paster wrote:The thread is brought up again, so here's my comment about PCE Gradius II Professional difficulty :

Professional mode is MAGNIFICENT! The enemy bullets now shoots faster, feels like a love letter for the fans of arcade Gradius I, and the boss parade is more scarier. There's a walkthrough from Seahawk with Type 1 ship if you really want to know, will clear the Professional mode with Type 3/4 ship in the near future.
If time machine do exist, I would tell to my 2016 self that I just cleared Professional difficulty of PCE Gradius II. Insanely fast bullets and aggresive enemies, I love it.

Image

I also cleared every version of Gradius II (Arcade, PC Engine, X68K, NES, PS1 Deluxe Pack port) aggresively with one credit Normal mode yesterday (more details at 1CC thread), this took me a day. How much the "Very Difficult" mode differ from normal mode in arcade/PS1 version? I saw Seahawk and pegboy's replay and it does seem not that different to Normal.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by SuperDeadite »

The poll lacks the MSX games and Nemesis '90 Kai for X68. I be sad.

And while a doujin, Hellhound x68k is a must for fans of the series.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Klatrymadon »

On the subject of doujin Gradius titles, I've always really liked Manesis '99 Kai, from the devs of Life Fortress Volcabamba. It's a perfect 'clone' in terms of recreating the gameplay and general feel of the MSX Gradius titles, but the most startling and impressive thing about it to me is how closely the soundtrack apes Miki Higashino's and Kinuyo Yamashita's styles. It sounds like an official Gradius or Salamander at times.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by XoPachi »

I've been playing Gradius V in an emulator because I don't feel like plugging in my PS2. It's amazing how much better this game looks on a PC. It all holds up very well and I'm even more impressed with the level design today than I was when I was 14 playing it. And this was probably the only game I played for months back then. Wake up, Gradius V, school, homework (sometimes), Gradius V, bed. Yes, no eating.
I love those intensely tight squeezes the game starts putting you in once you hit stage 4 and I have really grown an even stronger appreciation for the respect the bosses are given. Gradius bosses kind of just rolled over in a few seconds most of the time until Gaiden. But V, these are some fights, man.

And I hope Konami continues to make Gradius cards to give us more official artwork of the bosses and other vehicles. I just learned about this a short while ago. It looks great.
Spoiler
Image
Shame the deck is so slow even if it's fun, but support is support, I guess. Though I don't think his effect is entirely faithful to his GV appearance. He can at least build some decent Rank 9's in other decks.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by copy-paster »

Same here, I plan to get at least a clear for V. I practiced Easy mode this time because Normal is just hard.
XoPachi wrote:Gradius bosses kind of just rolled over in a few seconds
You can replicate this "bosses go down quick in seconds" part with Weapon Edit mode, just use the most OP barrier + freeze option. Start to pointblank the cores as soon as they appeared. :P
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Kobayashi »

XoPachi wrote:I've been playing Gradius V in an emulator because I don't feel like plugging in my PS2. It's amazing how much better this game looks on a PC. It all holds up very well and I'm even more impressed with the level design today than I was when I was 14 playing it. And this was probably the only game I played for months back then. Wake up, Gradius V, school, homework (sometimes), Gradius V, bed. Yes, no eating.
I love those intensely tight squeezes the game starts putting you in once you hit stage 4 and I have really grown an even stronger appreciation for the respect the bosses are given. Gradius bosses kind of just rolled over in a few seconds most of the time until Gaiden. But V, these are some fights, man.

And I hope Konami continues to make Gradius cards to give us more official artwork of the bosses and other vehicles. I just learned about this a short while ago. It looks great.
Spoiler
Image
Shame the deck is so slow even if it's fun, but support is support, I guess. Though I don't think his effect is entirely faithful to his GV appearance. He can at least build some decent Rank 9's in other decks.
Man, a remaster of Gradius V in true 4k or 1080p would be very welcome, although I play mine on the PS2 with the component video cable on my good old CRT TV and I love the image quality.

Changing the subject, there is a lot of talk about the great design, graphics and etc. of this shmup, but very little is said about the sound that I particularly find incredible, especially when listened to in a high quality headset.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by XoPachi »

Kobayashi wrote:
Man, a remaster of Gradius V in true 4k or 1080p would be very welcome, although I play mine on the PS2 with the component video cable on my good old CRT TV and I love the image quality.

Changing the subject, there is a lot of talk about the great design, graphics and etc. of this shmup, but very little is said about the sound that I particularly find incredible, especially when listened to in a high quality headset.
Man, I love Gradius sound effects in general. The explosions are really rich and there's so much sci fi "swooshing" going on.

V's music is also just so cool. Maybe not as upbeat most of the time, but it's got style. The boss music is my favorite. It's intimidating. Like "Ok, YOU'RE a problem and I'm gonna snuff you out."
Really sounds like the big badass guns are coming in and boy DO they in this game.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Bawa »

Ohhh! How come I never noticed this thread before?

I was recently wondering which games of the "famous" franchises were most beloved by the community to give them a try.
As I can see, Gradius II, V and Gaiden are considered the best per the votes.

Since I have no way of playing Gaiden or V, I will have to play II.

Guess I'll now scrutinize the forums to see if I can find more threads like this for the other series/franchises.
I suck at these games but I do enjoy them.
Platforms: PC / NSwitch
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by EmperorIng »

There's a couple per franchise iirc, like the "Where's all the Darius Love?" thread, or "the Bydo are a man made nightmare" thread (or, what also serves as an R-Type thread of sorts, "R-Type Final Really Sucks" 8) ).

I put in a credit of Gradius 1 the other day and despite dying at the Moai stage twice, I managed to recover and make it to 1-7. Not bad for a first time in years! I've never made it past 2-1 though.

Gradius II I'm finding harder to crack; I was getting really good at it years ago before I just stopped, and it's hard to jump back in. I think playing it on the meh Arcade Classics Collection from Konami is partially the reason; I ought to take out my Saturn Deluxe Pack and go for it. The farthest I've made it in G2 is the Boss Parade.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by copy-paster »

Gau from boss parade stage has different attack pattern from PS1/SAT port, the second attack now has randomized lasers as opposed to "3 laser lines per attack" like original arcade. Final stage also slightly easier in ports too.

Gradius 1 is real toughie, I got a 1-loop no-miss and recorded by accident many years ago. When I revisit it back I barely no miss Moai stage sadly, then I played it on PS1 with widescreen mode on. Widescreen mode is nice because of larger playfield, and it helps me to get a clear again after all years.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by XoPachi »

I think about this a decade later still....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxFu41t4cRo
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Kobayashi
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Kobayashi »

XoPachi wrote:
Man, I love Gradius sound effects in general. The explosions are really rich and there's so much sci fi "swooshing" going on.

V's music is also just so cool. Maybe not as upbeat most of the time, but it's got style. The boss music is my favorite. It's intimidating. Like "Ok, YOU'RE a problem and I'm gonna snuff you out."
Really sounds like the big badass guns are coming in and boy DO they in this game.
I agree 100% and without forgetting the cutscenes that are also very well executed and with great sound.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by EmperorIng »

I'm putting a bit more time into Gradius II, and have made as far as just after the Gunwall fight. A stupid death made me lose the credit right after (Gunwall's hitbox existed for a second after its sprite blew up, taking me with it). It takes a lot of energy to get back to that spot, so it's slow going. I still don't know what I'll do about the shifting floors + Club. Hope for the best... I use Type 4 for all of these thanks to the twin missile+ripple laser combo. I had the most success sacrificing an Option to the Option Hunter on stage 4 and going with 3 options all the way until after the boss rush.

I was also playing some Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius on the Saturn as well, having not given the game much attention. I know a few folks like Shephardus have played it. After a couple of days I'm finding some weird quirks with it. I notice that the game throws a lot, and I mean a lot, of slow moving bullets onto the screen even starting in stage 1. Far more than you would ever see in a Gradius stage 1. (or G2 or G3 for that matter). I don't know if rank goes goofy in this game, but it seems early on the penguin turrets will belch a dozen or more bullets to slowly crawl towards you. If you don't direct them properly it is very easy to get walled in.

Further more, if you pick up a blue capsule, it doesn't cancel the bullets like it does in other Gradius games! This is a hard habit to teach yourself out of, especially if you are used to other konami -ius games. Sometimes bullets can pass through obstacles (like the gym weight/mats in the Tokimeki stage), making these checkpoints particularly difficult.

I do like the hidden fairies; it makes for a nice and cute score incentive to hunt them out. The konami parody stages are pretty delightful as well. My favorite is the Lethal Enforcers stage - replete with Konami lightguns shooting at you, and all the sprites changing to digitized photographs - including the penguins, now sporting a realistic look! It's a great touch.

The farthest I've gotten on a single credit was the cat-train fight. I was doing well through the stage, but some of the bullets blend into the background in the final corridor before the cat-train. It's gotten me more than once, and it's really annoying. I feel like the graphics don't 'pop' out of the background enough in this game, and I don't know if that's just a consequence of having 16bit graphics retooled for a 32bit remake. I hope I can pull off a 1all without too many embarrassing and frustrating deaths.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by Klatrymadon »

I haven't played Jikkyo in a few years but I have the Saturn version too. I'll have to play it again and see what's going on with the rank, but I remember getting a basic first-loop clear the same day I bought it, and I'm no great shakes, so it must at least be possible to stop it from going ape on you. The whole experience was pretty sedate up to that point!
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by EmperorIng »

I have the difficulty set at 4 (at the middle, out of 7 - note that difficulty 8 is unlocked after beating difficulty 7). I assume that's the default unless I changed it. I am a little worse at these games but the bullet density definitely feels off so I wouldn't be surprised if I accidentally bumped the difficulty up a notch and forgot about it.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by thermal_treasure »

After seeing a few discussions about the insane cost of original Gradius/Nemesis PCBs I've been on a real Gradius kick this week. The second is usually my go to but I've been caning Gradius Gaiden all day, it still looks and sounds absolutely incredible. The crystal stage, phew. Whilst I haven't played V for around ten years, I did read today that the game does not contain any Moai heads. Treasure, what the hell were you thinking
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by EmperorIng »

That was a quite controversial omission at the time, around this forum :mrgreen:
There are cheerio bullets though (from 1-1 boss!). Stealth homage?

I'll get to Gaiden eventually, but I definitely wanna clear Gradius II at the very least before I reward myself with something easier.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by copy-paster »

SFC port of Jikkyo is even worse with bullet spam even on earlier stages! Every single enemy in that port throws deadly slow moving bullets, yes I am not kidding. Combine that with cramped SFC screen size and slowdown that is even worse than III+Gokujou on the same system. Glad they tone it down on Saturn/PSX.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by EmperorIng »

I'm glad your perception mirrors mine. Doing some discussion about the game with synthricardo on stream, we think that overall the game's AI (in both the SFC and 32bit remakes) is 'dumber' but more aggressive. Usually in a Gradius arcade game, unless at high, high rank, enemies will move around and turrets won't fire constantly all the time. However the AI seems simpler in Jikkyo Parodius, which means the enemies shoot more often, which leads to those slow bullet clouds. It's kind of a knock given how well-behaved (relatively speaking) the SFC Gradius III enemies behave (they act as they 'should'). Maybe because the game was built ground-up for consoles they didn't use whatever code dictates enemy behavior in the arcade games.

This doesn't make the game ultra hard or anything, but it definitely doesn't act like any of the other arcade Parodius games (nor does it the Gradius games), so for series veterans it comes off as weird and disorienting! Especially when you can't successfully misdirect these death clouds like you can in the other games. Makes me kind of want to boot up Sexy Parodius again to notice the differences... Is the SFC Gokujou Parodius improved over the SFC Gradius III?

Also, I finally managed to pull off the 1ALL of Gradius II! I blew the Shadow Dancer section -right- at the end, and took multiple tries to 'get it right' and I didn't quite do it either. But I died late enough into the Shadow Dancer (I thought its name was Club? Am I misremembering?) to trigger the final checkpoint. If you notice in my vid, I was so giddy that I didn't even kill Gofer, I just kept on showboating/goofing off while high on the rush. :mrgreen:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/736715395

I know I can do better, and I probably will go for a better final run, just to get farther, hopefully, into the loop and to show off a cleaner shadow dancer strategy. Big thanks to Buzzybola, Shephardus, and Cloudymusic whose replays I watched a lot of to figure out a decent rhythm through the legs.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by CloudyMusic »

EmperorIng wrote:(I thought its name was Club? Am I misremembering?)
I was confused about what "Shadow Dancer" was too, but as far as I can tell, the official name of that boss is "Crab," which I'm guessing got mis-interpreted by some people as "Club," since they'd be spelled the same way in katakana. The Gradius wiki uses "Shadow Dancer" as an umbrella term for all crab-like bosses in the series, so I have no idea what the deal with that is.

Congrats again on the clear!
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by copy-paster »

Sorry but that counts as cheating because you died with the luckiest checkpoint. /s

Congrats for 1-all! Gradius II is by far most accessible game in the arcade mainline, I like how balanced the difficulty is.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by EmperorIng »

Thank you both. Gradius II might be my favorite of what I've played, though I haven't given 4 enough of a fair shake.
I love a lot about 3, but its difficulty just kinda breaks me. Some people (a small minority) say "3's not so bad" but it asks more than I can give, I think. I think I'd have a better time if Big Core mk3's criss-crossing lasers weren't so janky.

I am about to give up on Jikkyo. Even turning the roulette off (thank God), the game is a bit too frustrating. Slow-paced (but hard), enemies litter the screen with bullets
It gives a bunch of lives but you still have to deal with bullet herding in a way you don't have to in other Parodius games (a fact I noticed when I played a credit of Sexy Parodius on a lark afterward - the enemy firing behavior is totally different!). The game has lots of fun charm but it also is sedate and a little too slow-paced taking about 4 levels before it gets more exciting.. You may die because a bunch of pentarou turrets on the floor and ceiling just wall you in with no escape. You'll force your way through after a death or two and soldier on. Given how much love and care the game has in its stages and sprites I wanna love it more... And I'm even playing the 'no slowdown' 32bit version.
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Re: General Gradius thread

Post by JohnR1900 »

My heart tells me to vote for Gradius II on the Famicom.

I remember being blown away seeing it on a GamePro cover, May 1989, which had a 4 page spread dedicated to it in Overseas Prospects, including a comic.

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Also, in Electronic Gaming Monthly's International Outlook in two different issues, summer 1989.

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As a Sega Master System owner who had been praying R-Type for a month or so, I was still impressed with these graphics.

Edit: I took the liberty of collecting reviews of the arcade version from UK mags.

Computer and Video Games May, 1988
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Your Sinclair June, 1988
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The Games Machine July, 1988
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Sinclair User July, 1988
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