your ideal first level in a shmup
-
professor ganson
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am
- Location: OHIO
your ideal first level in a shmup
Many first levels in shmups are kind of boring or uninspired. What do you want out of a first level? What are examples of the best first levels in shmups?
-
theevilfunkster
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:49 pm
- Location: Glossop, UK
-
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:44 pm
- Location: CT
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
You think so? Strange, I am more afraid of the opposite. I really feel cheated when I discover than the best parts of a game have been put at the beginning to make big show, and the rest feel rushed. So I find nice when a game start subtle and really get its climax later.professor ganson wrote:Many first levels in shmups are kind of boring or uninspired.
A good example of what I don't like, though no shmup, could be Dracula XX (snes): the first stage has a very cool flame effect on background, and sadly nothing that came in later stages was on par to it.
Anyway, my ideal of great first stage could be Gradius II GnY, it really starts with a bang, awesome music too. Salamander and Axelay's first are classic too.
-
BulletMagnet
- Posts: 13897
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
- Location: Wherever.
- Contact:
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
Though I'm not a huge fan of any of those games, I would have to agree that the first stage of each does draw you in pretty effectively.Turrican wrote:Anyway, my ideal of great first stage could be Gradius II GnY, it really starts with a bang, awesome music too. Salamander and Axelay's first are classic too.
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
Wait, what does your avatar stand for? Huge Parodius fan? Lover of comedy shooters? Worshipper of a reptile deity?BulletMagnet wrote:Though I'm not a huge fan of any of those games, I would have to agree that the first stage of each does draw you in pretty effectively.
-
BulletMagnet
- Posts: 13897
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
- Location: Wherever.
- Contact:
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
Problem with relying on gfx and music, even the pretty first stage sucks.Turrican wrote:I really feel cheated when I discover than the best parts of a game have been put at the beginning to make big show, and the rest feel rushed. So I find nice when a game start subtle and really get its climax later.
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
Hmm. You know, it's not that I rely on them. It's more like I enjoy them.Rob wrote:Problem with relying on gfx and music, even the pretty first stage sucks.
But yeah, I suppose that a guy accustomed to Thunderforces or R-Types kind of setting, where basically each stage is filled with memorable moments and unique ideas, is harder to please that the, huh, Daisenpuu fan which is given a very bland backgrounds and he doesn't care cause he only finds enjoyment in avoiding bullets.
I just happen to be in the former group, but I don't criticize the other, as lately I've been thrilled by Raiden / Toaplan shmups.
-
professor ganson
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am
- Location: OHIO
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
I was planning on playing Salamander tonight for the first time, so I'm glad to hear this. I played Salamander 2 for the first time yesterday. The atmosphere was amazing, and I loved shifting from hori to vert. The game really picks up in difficulty and quality of graphics in the third level.Turrican wrote: Anyway, my ideal of great first stage could be Gradius II GnY, it really starts with a bang, awesome music too. Salamander and Axelay's first are classic too.
Gradius II is the only game in the series I haven't tried. I think it is on the Konami Antiques collection which PepsimanVsJoe is sending to me. I'm looking forward to that.
Gradius V, Border Down, and Zanac Neo all have really nice first levels IMO.
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
Huh... Good luck with that one. It's hard like hell.professor ganson wrote:Gradius II is the only game in the series I haven't tried. I think it is on the Konami Antiques collection which PepsimanVsJoe is sending to me. I'm looking forward to that.
Anyway, I was talking of Gradius II arcade, Gofer no Yabou, which is an entirely different game. I should probably use its western name to avoid confusion: Vulcan Venture.
(and yes, it is available on PC Engine CD, and since you started a thread asking for buy advice, I cannot recommend it enough!)
-
professor ganson
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am
- Location: OHIO
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
I was talking about the game/developer reliance.Turrican wrote:Hmm. You know, it's not that I rely on them. It's more like I enjoy them.Rob wrote:Problem with relying on gfx and music, even the pretty first stage sucks.
An ideal first level for me is one I wouldn't mind restarting and playing a dozen times in a row, so that limits it to basically just Mars Matrix and Giga Wing Generations for me. Very fast paced, little risk of death and a lot of room for scoring refinements. In Takumi games the first level has a great impact because of the multiplier, so it also feels more important than just playing one level. Those two are two of my favorite stages overall.
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
I still don't understand what you were saying... Yeah, it's late and I'm slow ^_^;Rob wrote: I was talking about the game/developer reliance.
Cool, perhaps you would like Zanac Neo intro stage, although Compile. It's very short, but also it needs to be mastered well. That is, it's better to go through it without ever using your main shot, trying this way to get rare bonus that improve your fire rate... They appear accordingly to a cryptic score rule that Zach Keene explained well in his FAQ.Rob wrote:An ideal first level for me is one I wouldn't mind restarting and playing a dozen times in a row, so that limits it to basically just Mars Matrix and Giga Wing Generations for me. Very fast paced, little risk of death and a lot of room for scoring refinements. In Takumi games the first level has a great impact because of the multiplier, so it also feels more important than just playing one level. Those two are two of my favorite stages overall.
Another game with very short stages I do remember now is Raystorm. All the stages in this one are pretty short, but I guess you have to like lock-on gameplay to enjoy it (and even then, widespread opinion is that Rayforce is better).
-
cigsthecat
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:35 am
- Location: Burbank, CA
I want a stage that has some little things to do once you've played a million times. Like-
Gunbird 2- coin chaining gives you something to do even in the first level. If USA comes up I can always play better, do more even now.
Batrider- lots of scoring opportunities that require a good plan to get the most out of the stage.
Dragon Blaze- I can always get more gold coins. Tech bonus too.
Raiden DX- lots of little score tricks and secrets.
Raiden Fighters Jet- even here it can get tricky going for the maximum value.
Gunbird 2- coin chaining gives you something to do even in the first level. If USA comes up I can always play better, do more even now.
Batrider- lots of scoring opportunities that require a good plan to get the most out of the stage.
Dragon Blaze- I can always get more gold coins. Tech bonus too.
Raiden DX- lots of little score tricks and secrets.
Raiden Fighters Jet- even here it can get tricky going for the maximum value.
-
professor ganson
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am
- Location: OHIO
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
OK, now I've played it, and this game is nothing but fun. Salamander is my new favorite toy, with Salamander 2 not far behind.professor ganson wrote:I was planning on playing Salamander tonight for the first timeTurrican wrote: Anyway, my ideal of great first stage could be Gradius II GnY, it really starts with a bang, awesome music too. Salamander and Axelay's first are classic too.
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
Salamander is pure gold. And I don't think I go against the forum rules If I recommend you to pay a visit right now to www.slightlydark.comprofessor ganson wrote:OK, now I've played it, and this game is nothing but fun. Salamander is my new favorite toy, with Salamander 2 not far behind.
-
superhitachi4
- Posts: 379
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: RLC Jr.
Ikaruga is my favorite example of a great first stage. It has that "attract" value in its choreography and presentation, even though the rest of the game doesn't disappoint in comparison. The difficulty curve is also perfect, clearly introducing every fundamental aspect to the play. It's passive enough that a beginner can complete it without dying after a few tries, yet has huge scoring opportunities for advanced players, being as "legit" of a stage after extended play as any other.
-
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:01 pm
-
BulletMagnet
- Posts: 13897
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
- Location: Wherever.
- Contact:
Re: your ideal first level in a shmup
It's also available on the Gradius Deluxe Pack for either Saturn or PSX, if you want to pick it up there.Turrican wrote:Anyway, I was talking of Gradius II arcade, Gofer no Yabou, which is an entirely different game....(and yes, it is available on PC Engine CD, and since you started a thread asking for buy advice, I cannot recommend it enough!)
I want the first level to amaze me, but not too much. I wouldn't want the first level to be THE MOST exciting level in the game. That would be dissapointing. For me, it helps for the first level to show off the game's special talents, or original ideas (if any), but not overdue it. Also, the backgrounds have to be eye-candy.
Here are some examples of first levels that made me go... the first time I played them.
Thunder Force V
Ikaruga
Border Down
Psyvariar 2
G Darius
Gradius V
Einhander
Layer Section
Salamander 2
Gradius Gaiden
Here are some examples of first levels that made me go... the first time I played them.
Thunder Force V
Ikaruga
Border Down
Psyvariar 2
G Darius
Gradius V
Einhander
Layer Section
Salamander 2
Gradius Gaiden
Last edited by J-Manic on Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.