Why don't you try hard?

[Eaglet]

Your points about weightlifting are very true and you can extend that analogy to many walks of life.

Most definitely! As i've stated before, i feel that almost any kind of skill that you can develop can be approached in a very similar way. Even though specifics and what is required of you as a person differs.

The point is, where do we draw the line? Several posters agree with the notion that 1-alls are trivial. Where do we draw the line for player competency in this community? It seams rather arbitrary.

Calling 1-alls trivial is a bit arbitrary in my opinion but they shouldn't be mistaken for anything other than a first step in the mastery of a game.
I think the main point being that while some here might trivialize a clear, a much larger portion instead see them as something almost insurmountable. Something that requires much more effort than they actually do. Which is simply not true. It's kind of like if you had a community of 3rd Strike players where the majority see parrying or spacing as something only autistics or elitists can get the hang of when they are basic fundamentals of the game.

[CWM]

I don't think the numbers in that comparison is that fitting to be honest. To tell you the truth i don't have any experience with modern competitive PC games but i can only imagine that what's required of you as a player to make it to that upper echelon is much more demanding than what it is to get to a "competitive" level at most shmups.
I think the major issue is that a lot of people seem to make stuff like 1CC's out to be a much bigger and harder accomplishment than what they are. Trouserplankisms if you will.
The general sentiment among a lot of casual players seem to be that you have to be a high level autistic without a day job and any other hobbies that plays the same game days on end in order to accomplish anything worth noting.
This is simply not the case. Most mid-level shmups can be 1-ALLed with up to a month of consistent play (a credit a day) if you know how to practice.
As with anything it gets a lot easier the more experience you have.

I did a bit of research into this, and apparently it takes someone with no RTS experience between 1000 and 1500 ladder games to reach Masters League. Averaging 15 mins per game, that's 250 - 375 hours of playing. I'm not sure what the relevant point of comparison would be for "competitive" shmupping, what do you think? Let's take Batrider, a pretty popular game to play for score here on the forums. How many hours does it take a person with zero stg experience to get a Top 3 (or Top X, honestly don't know what the equivalent would be) score on this forum's leaderboard for Batrider, in your opinion?

I'm going to talk a bit more about the "1CCs are easy" sentiment in my reply to Icarus below.

I absolutely agree with this, and have even said as much on public channels. I never did understand the obsession with building the largest collection of 1CCs going. 1CC'ing a game - a 'scrubby' single loop clear at the least in multi-loop games, if we're making a distinction - isn't remotely difficult at all and only requires a small amount of intelligent, focused practice, and it doesn't really speak to the level of your abilities if you're panic-bomb-spamming and fumbling your way to the end.
The real meat of a game is found in taking its many systems and bending them to your will, and making the game give up all of its points while singing and dancing to your tune. Then and only then can it be considered that you've attained actual mastery of a game.

1CCs are nice things to have, but the journey with a game shouldn't stop there.

I feel a bit silly for having to say this, but this whole argument relies on the player in question having a certain baseline of general shmupping skill. The difficulty of a scrubby 1CC clear is completely relative. This shouldn't even need proof, but I can easily demonstrate it from my own experience - back in January, when I started playing shmups, I estimate that it would've taken me at least 50 hours to clear Futari BL Original - I took over 20 hours for Crimzon Clover's Novice Original, believe it or not. I recently bought the Futari console port, and cleared the game after maybe 6 hours of practice, most of which was spent on Larsa (I then proceeded to try to score, as the clear itself felt like not much of an accomplishment, actually). Point here being, if I need to actually take 50+ hours to get the scrubby clear, then it is, in fact, not at all easy (for me), and this doesn't mean that I'm bad at practicing. General skill developed over multiple games (especially if they're all a similar style of game, like Cave bullet hells) is very much a thing and makes a huge difference in the effective difficulty of any given accomplishment in a game - doesn't have to be a 1cc.

Imagine that you spend many months building up to a 2-ALL of DOJWL, you finally achieve it, and then some Japanese arcade veteran comes along and argues that you need to up your game and that it's really not that big of a deal to clear DOJWL, and why isn't your score better?

On a personal note, as somewhat of a 1cc collector, this whole problem feels very abstract to me, as I'm not especially motivated by being able to showcase my accomplishment on some forum or another. I try to play games that I enjoy and which also present a sufficient challenge that I am forced to improve. That's the primary point, and if I feel like trying to clear a Psikyo game (a style I'm completely unused to) will help me more than spending a hundred hours on Futari Maniac, I will do the former irrespective of how "hardcore" it makes me look in anyone's eyes.

[jepjepjep]

The problem is, I'm a player that thrives on competition. Why would I push myself further if I'm the only one taking the game I'm playing seriously? I'm by no means a good player - I don't and have never considered myself to be - but when the standard of competition is so painfully low that I can take a game on, occasionally one I've never played before, and in about a week, bash out a top ten score (see: STGTs) with a few sporadic but smart practice sessions, it doesn't exactly spur me onward.

That highlights the bigger problem of their not being enough players interested in shmups. I hope I'm being overly pessimistic here but the genre seems to be at an all-time low for new releases, media coverage, and general awareness. I agree with the earlier poster who said that only a small percentage of the population are going to have the desire and dedication to play competitively, so the community needs to grow for this to happen.

[Special World]

Don't examine every death, don't set up rules like "watch a superplay every 10 runs" be flexible and cool. Make sure you know what the enemies and bosses are doing. You shouldn't just know when they're coming or what their bullets look like, you need to work out how they actually function, so you can relax and focus on dealing with them and not lose your cool. Bullet curtains are in some shape or form, fixed, aimed, random... work out plans and patterns. If all else fails you can rely on the tried and true bomb button.

But overall I would say, to get better (and thus, less struggle to 1cc) play multiple games and improve on your reading and movements that way. Play something above your skill level and try to adapt to the higher difficulty. When you are used to reacting to more difficult thingss you won't need to rely as much on memorization when you go back to an easier thing.

step 2 is reading and screen awareness. a good player can keep track of "everything" (more or less) that goes on in the screen even in a very chaotic game without losing track of their own hitbox, and subsequently, make tight/difficult dodges while also focusing elsewhere on the screen. this skill is difficult to develop, but doing a variety of challenges and making sure you go a bit "above your skill level" (don't stick to easy modes forever) will hone this skill

See, to me this amounts to exactly what *any* scrolling shooter player is doing. A lot of this topic sounds like "well just play the game, be focused, and pay attention to what you're doing"... but that's what everyone does. I appreciate that this topic is asking people to step up their game and put forth an effort, but I'm not really getting how most of your methods are any different than "one day you will be good, and then you will be able to beat games." Well obviously—the only reason I have any skills at all was because I was in love with Mars Matrix as a teenager. That's clear to me.

A lot of it comes out to "Well, think about what you're doing. What's right and what's wrong?" But that's the thing—you have to know how to think. That's a skill that gets honed over time.

[Bananamatic]

Icarus, Eaglet, Bananamatic, you all posted how you can take months off or only play 1 hr/day, 4hr/week, etc and still perform. It's because you're not pushing your skill ceiling. You can always ask, "Why don't you try harder?" Why haven't you scored H in Garegga, cleared Inbachi, etc? For those who have never 1cc'd before, the struggle is real. It's all about perspective.

it's about effort, not about the results and i seriously doubt someone would shit talk a DOJWL 2-all ever

i honestly don't know why people are arguing against this, it's a game, not an important life skill or studying for that math phd to get 300k starting at any job you want
instead people try to come up with reasons why ketsui is way too hard instead of giving a shot

or you know
you can just say you don't really want to clear ketsui or don't have the time, that's perfectly fine
but coming up with excuses instead is lame

i think this is a very good replay as an example of taking the right approach
he's not an exceptionally good player yet still manages to get into st5 futari ultra just by knowing what to do and not taking risks he can't afford to take
and futari ultra is considered to be a fucking hard game, way harder than the 1st loop of ketsui
he could also easily get all the way to larsa just by improving his routes on st5

in other words, you can probably clear the 1st loop of ketsui by approaching it the same way

[Special World]

it's about effort, not about the results and i seriously doubt someone would shit talk a DOJWL 2-all ever

i honestly don't know why people are arguing against this, it's a game, not an important life skill or studying for that math phd to get 300k starting at any job you want
instead people try to come up with reasons why ketsui is way too hard instead of giving a shot

i think this is a very good replay as an example of taking the right approach
he's not an exceptionally good player yet still manages to get into st5 futari ultra

There have been some helpful posts in this topic, and I definitely don't wanna be a negative MrTrouserPlank and say "this isn't fair, I can't do this," etc. But this topic as a whole has definitely *not* been about the effort over the results. A large portion of this topic has been "look, 1CCing is super easy and you should be able to do this shit on the fly with just a little dedication."

I'm playing Eschatos right now. I've been playing practically all day, inbetween going for a run and going for a walk. I'm playing on original normal—I'm all but certain that you and Icarus would 1CC this on your first try, regardless of having or not having some training or whatever to learn all the trouble spots. It's really not a difficult game. I've set myself the goal of beating stage 3 with two lives left, which should be pretty simple. The game gives you lives much more frequently than other games. I've only managed to accomplish that task once today.

Now you're saying that this "not even exceptionally good player" is reaching stage 5 in Futari Ultra. I'm sorry, but if you're making it to Futari Ultra you're a pretty exceptionally good player. I've played at least a hundred hours of Futari and I'd be lucky to make it past stage 2 in God mode.

[Icarus]

I'm playing on original normal—I'm all but certain that you and Icarus would 1CC this on your first try

Seventh, actually (Original Normal). http://www.twitch.tv/icarusfw/c/3064324
Told you I wasn't any good. The day one stream was kinda fun, mind.

[Squire Grooktook]

Eh, as much as I like high tension games, I'm not going to question the humanity of people who don't like games I like. Some people are just into different things. Some people just want to relax on their freetime. It's not for me, but I can respect whatever somebody is into.

This has nothing to do with games but with stress management being a universal skill. That is, if your reason for quitting is that you don't want to learn how to manage your stress.
It's just a sentiment i can't relate to at all.

Maybe because they're trying to get some enjoyment out of their freetime and don't find stress management fun? Maybe they deal with stress management at work every day of their lives and want a different experience when they get home.

To me, it's not stress but excitement, but I'm just saying I can see how some other people might not enjoy it. And I can respect that.

I've never seen a player try to play a game safely with a planned route and still fail to 1cc - every single time they failed was because they kept making bad decisions on the go, making it way harder than it should be, which is how i see most people play

I'm sure a lot of those "bad decisions" are likely execution errors and things like that which keep people from following the route they had in mind perfectly. It does take not only knowledge but practice and skill to follow a route. The more strict the route is, the harder that can be. And that's assuming a route is even possible on some sections or patterns.

Even with completely static games, I often find I need to be "in the zone" for that moment in order to get the route right. Playing when half asleep or not on my A game usually results in failing the route.

Not trying to argue with you here, since I agree with what you're saying, but I don't like to reduce games purely to "you'll win if you do x, y, and z". There's a bit more nuance to many of these games. Or, at least some of them. And that's what I like about them.

See, to me this amounts to exactly what *any* scrolling shooter player is doing. A lot of this topic sounds like "well just play the game, be focused, and pay attention to what you're doing"... but that's what everyone does.

Well, I can give one bit of concrete advise:

If you see a boss or stage that seems absolutely insane, ask yourself "without a route, is dodging here on improv for me possible, or is it several magnitudes beyond my current skill level?". If it's beyond, then get save stating and it'll suddenly be super doable and consistent. We're talking "mere" 1cc's and 1-alls, not ultra tlb clears or 2-alls, so even the hardest clears in this category shouldn't require a really brutally strict route. Just a plan.

[pokemon123]

just don't enjoy that kind of thing. makes the genre simply not fun for me.

[Gamer707b]

Since Im liking this discussion, Im gonna chime in. I have been gaming for 33 years. I grew up playing rpgs , adventure, action, beat em ups etc, but never shmups. I can pick up most rpgs and feel right at home. Or go in a Zelda dungeon and take it apart. I came to pay more attention to 2d shooters and bought a bunch of them. I grew to appreciate and admire the shmup. With that said Ive never 1cced anything. The shmups Ive beaten Ive beaten them with whatever credits the game has given me. For someone like me that has no real history with the genre, is this something that some are just "naturally" good at? Or is this the result of years of playing? I want to play better , but it just seems SO daunting and even intimidating. Ive wtched the Japanese shmup documentary many times and think, wow!! I wanna get to that "nirvana level" Anyway good topic and very informative.

[Squire Grooktook]

is this something that some are just "naturally" good at? Or is this the result of years of playing? I want to play better , but it just seems SO daunting and even intimidating. Ive wtched the Japanese shmup documentary many times and think, wow!! I wanna get to that "nirvana level" Anyway good topic and very informative.

I think it's possible that some people might have natural talent right off the bat, but though even those people will still have to work hard and likely learn a lot to progress in many games. Otherwise, most of us were terrible when we started out, but it doesn't take long to improve.

[jepjepjep]

Yeah, I think so too. Maybe there is some natural ability that separates people at the very highest levels, but for the most part it's just practice and dedication.

Here's a very good interview of some of the top Japanese players:

Haneda: Please give us some tips on how to become better at STGs!

Sasaki: Ah, a good question for beginners. (laughs)

NAL: Well... the main thing, as you might have guessed, is to practice...

Haneda: How many hours and how many credits in a day?

NAL: The more the better, of course. Also you have to memorize the location of enemies and what attacks they do and so forth. As much as possible, you should not be dodging bullets. These are "bullet dodging" games, but you should avoid dodging as much as you can. In short, you shouldn't be trying to pass through the space between the bullets, but rather going around them and avoiding them entirely.

Haneda: Sounds difficult. (laughs)

Mihara: That's deep. (laugh)

[[tr note: the way NAL describes it in Japanese uses some parallel phrasing with "uchigawa" and "sotogawa", and therefore sounds rather sagacious and deep, but this nuance can't quite be conveyed with English grammar]]

Sasaki: Uh... please explain it more simply!

Everyone: (laughs)

NAL: The simple version, as I said, is just to practice.

Haneda: (laughs)

LAOS / TAC: Its exactly as he says.

NAL: Your opponent in a STG is the computer, so in that respect its like a puzzle. So you should memorize it piece by piece... its like you're clearing one step at a time.

Sasaki: So we should use the practice/simulations modes, then?

NAL: Yeah, if you practice each stage, you'll naturally get better.

Sasaki: Hmm.

LAOS: In the end its all about the time you put in.

TAC: The master speaks. (laughs)

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^There are also rng patterns to watch out for :3 those are my favorite, and most fun part of the game for me.

Fuck puzzle games tbh.

Also to SpecialWorld: another bit of advice would be maybe try applying the strategies to something uber easy like Thunder Force IV or whatever and work your way up. Get some confidence and see how these methods work, and you can probably eventually develop the skills and mindset for clearing the harder stuff.

[Stevens]

is this something that some are just "naturally" good at? Or is this the result of years of playing? I want to play better , but it just seems SO daunting and even intimidating. Ive wtched the Japanese shmup documentary many times and think, wow!! I wanna get to that "nirvana level" Anyway good topic and very informative.

Otherwise, most of us were terrible when we started out, but it doesn't take long to improve.

This is probably true for 99% of us here.

When you're starting out I think a large part of it is finding that 1st game that you really want to spend a lot of time with.

[Shepardus]

There's some degree of natural talent involved, but you'd be surprised how much people the average person can accomplish through familiarizing oneself with fundamental tactics and movements. I was recently looking at my spellcard records in Double Spoiler, which I hadn't played in years, and apparently it took me 78 photos to clear scene 1-5 for the first time back in 2010, which if you ask me is pretty embarrassingly bad. But now when I look at it I think it's almost trivially easy, and to prove that to myself I tried it once again and captured it without any memory of it other than the saved "best photo." Even if my "natural talent" remained the same and my raw reaction time is probably about the same as well, I'm now a lot better at recognizing key patterns and how to react to them.

Eh, as much as I like high tension games, I'm not going to question the humanity of people who don't like games I like. Some people are just into different things. Some people just want to relax on their freetime. It's not for me, but I can respect whatever somebody is into.

This has nothing to do with games but with stress management being a universal skill. That is, if your reason for quitting is that you don't want to learn how to manage your stress.
It's just a sentiment i can't relate to at all.

I dunno, my life is already pretty easy as far as people's lives go and I have plenty of times when actively pursuing intense, strenuous action is the least of my interests. Many people don't get much free time to begin with and, as Squire Grooktook said, may already have a lot of stress in their lives, so I don't think not wanting to pursue more stress is a refusal to learn to manage stress.

I'll echo a sentiment that's been repeated a couple times already, I think it's fine to not be interested in pursuing 1CCs or scoring, but it's not because you can't. You don't need to treat it like a job to improve, though it can speed up the process.

I don't think it's fair to say that 1CCs are easy, it's typically more forgiving than playing for score but the survival and scoring difficulty vary dramatically from game to game, and stuff like a DOJWL 2-ALL is probably at least as hard as WR-tier scoring in some games. Despite this variance though 1CCs are generally something the average person can do with some practice. There are games that require stuff like consistent frame-perfect timings and microsecond reactions but I believe a well-designed shmup shouldn't, at least for survival.

Lastly, here's another interview that I really like, courtesy of shmuplations:

—Do you have any tricks or techniques for STG games?

KK: I try to create the simplest routes and patterns possible. When I’m going for a clear, or for score, to achieve my goal for any given part I always ask myself: “what is an easy way to do this?” I’m always trying to make things even easier.

—What is the appeal of the STG genre, in your opinion?

KK: I think it’s the fact that with repeated attempts, you will always steadily improve. How can I make this scoring section a little easier? This part is a little difficult, how can I find a safer route out of it? All that trial and error is trackable by watching your score go up, or your progress through the stages. I think that sense of accomplishment you get from reaching a new stage or new high score is the unique appeal of STG.

[Special World]

I'll have to bust out my Wii and play some TG-16 games then, haha. I was getting pretty stressed out, but I'm good now.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

What I really play these games (and other types of games like fighters and whatnot) for is the moment to moment sense of excitement during the game, not any minor or fleeting sense of satisfaction when it's over.

It's important to keep in mind that you can enjoy and appreciate both while working for the clear. Just because you've cleared a game doesn't mean it's another 1CC on a list and you move on - you can still really enjoy replaying the game just for the hell of it. I find I'm actually most likely to seriously invest time learning games when I truly love the experience every minute of playing them. I have cleared a few games I thought were "well this is neat, but not amazing", but the ones I really were proud of were the ones I truly care about.

I've played at least a hundred hours of Futari and I'd be lucky to make it past stage 2 in God mode.

I don't think it's fair to say that 1CCs are easy

It's a silly statement, because shmups are so different from one another that in one game, clearing it is relatively easy, whereas in a more difficult game, clearing it is very hard. And then there's the difference between a 1-ALL in something like DoDonPachi vs a 2-ALL where the 2-ALL is insanely hard by comparison. And when the goal is scoring, that also changes things immensely as in games with very basic scoring you can largely focus on the 1CC, whereas in games with complex scoring, sometimes the difference between a low score 1CC and a high score 1CC is like night and day.

Also, shmups are a difficult genre to learn - techniques like tap dodging, bullet misdirection, planning the use of bombs instead of being reactionary, etc... that first 1CC can be much more difficult that your next ones, because those skills are essentially to many shmups, and once you get a handle on them, you can more easily transition from one game to the next.

I might say Futari 1.5 is a relatively easy clear compared to other shmups out there, but to a new player or someone who isn't good at shmups, it's far from 'easy'. I think I owned Futari as one of my first arcade bullet hells for half a year before getting even remotely decent at it, and it took longer still to clear it on Original.

[Cagar]

Practice regimes? Save states? Locking yourself into one 20 minute game for a few hours several days in a row? Nah, not for me.

It has been mentioned several times in the thread that this is non-sense. A 1cc doesn't mean spending half of your life to achieve it.

Why don't I try hard? Because I have more fun not trying hard. That's my way and I'm happy for anyone else to play how they like.

And this is exactly the reason why I'm one of those who claim that if more people tried hard, this community would be more interesting.
Can you give me a proper explanation about how you know that casual play is more fun and fulfilling than the sense of progress and achievement of ..achieving something, when you have never done it?
This reminds me of a kid complaining about salad that he has never eaten. If you're playing shmups and like them, the salad is already on the plate. So why won't you try it?
These games are BUILT for the thrill.

Sure, I understand if someone has already felt the satisfaction of a shmup achievement and still thinks that it's not their thing, but this is not the case here.

wow this is probably the nerdiest post

[Squire Grooktook]

What I really play these games (and other types of games like fighters and whatnot) for is the moment to moment sense of excitement during the game, not any minor or fleeting sense of satisfaction when it's over.

It's important to keep in mind that you can enjoy and appreciate both while working for the clear. Just because you've cleared a game doesn't mean it's another 1CC on a list and you move on - you can still really enjoy replaying the game just for the hell of it. I find I'm actually most likely to seriously invest time learning games when I truly love the experience every minute of playing them. I have cleared a few games I thought were "well this is neat, but not amazing", but the ones I really were proud of were the ones I truly care about.

100% agree a thousand times over. Another reason why I enjoy rng heavy games like GNG, Rayforce, Contra, etc. The Clear is always in question, even when you've already 1lc'd it.

[Special World]

1CCed Original Normal. Got a score over double my previous high score. Almost killed the final boss without dying at all during the battle but he got me twice at the very end.

[Squire Grooktook]

1CCed Original Normal. Got a score over double my previous high score. Almost killed the final boss without dying at all during the battle but he got me twice at the very end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY

[system11]

I don't focus on one game until I've mastered it because there are few shmups I could ever master. I've been playing these games longer than some people here have been alive and I'm pretty sure where my skill limit is at this point. If I sit there banging my head against a wall trying to learn Ketsui (as an example, one of the games I struggle with on any level), that's time I could spend more enjoyably sampling the vast wealth of other entertainment competing for my free time.

This week I played:
Gals Panic S2
CoD BO3 beta (half way to the cap before servers turned off)
Zombi (Zombi-U port, completed)
The Bridge
Everyones Gone To The Rapture (completed)
DOA5LR
Battle Garegga (personal best)
Until Dawn

And I watched about 7 films, two life WWE events and I'm watching a charity stream right now.

Do I want to trade all that for some sporadic progress in Ketsui? No I don't.

[Cagar]

I don't focus on one game until I've mastered it because there are few shmups I could ever master. I've been playing these games longer than some people here have been alive and I'm pretty sure where my skill limit is at this point. If I sit there banging my head against a wall trying to learn Ketsui (as an example, one of the games I struggle with on any level), that's time I could spend more enjoyably sampling the vast wealth of other entertainment competing for my free time.

This week I played:
Gals Panic S2
CoD BO3 beta (half way to the cap before servers turned off)
Zombi (Zombi-U port, completed)
The Bridge
Everyones Gone To The Rapture (completed)
DOA5LR
Battle Garegga (personal best)
Until Dawn

And I watched about 7 films.

Do I want to trade all that for some sporadic progress in Ketsui? No I don't.

Hmmm I think that you should. Ketsui is gud.
Who says that you have to go all-in though? Maybe trade 3 films & few games for it. (or even just one)

[Squire Grooktook]

If you enjoy those films or games more, I wouldn't trade any of them.

IN THEORY maybe getting good at Ketsui might just take 3 credits every other day or something like that, but in reality we all have different schedules and demands in our lives. Those 3 credits may or may not be feasible, convenient, or enjoyable depending on when you have time for them.

Also as The Good Book says, "man cannot live by shmups alone". I sincerely regretted the time I spent playing nothing but fighting games, and now I sincerely regret the time I spent playing nothing but shmups. I'm keeping my plate diverse with story based games, arcade style stuff, multiplayer, etc. and that's just for games. Now that I'm doing that, my game time feels a lot more vibrant and less...sterile.

[chum]

See, to me this amounts to exactly what *any* scrolling shooter player is doing.

To a degree, maybe, but I would argue otherwise. Many people clearly aren't being real. Otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this. Besides, I've seen videos and streams and all. People would benefit more from improving their skill and understanding.

There's a difference between just playing games aimlessly, and actually wanting to improve.

I'm not sure what type of response you were expecting out of me. If you expect me to type out some elaborate "practice regimes" just to get 1ccs then you are mistaken.

[Gamer707b]

I totally feel u Squire. I love variety too. Not just in games but in life. I am grateful to have my job that I have, cause I don't do the same thing everyday. Its always different. If u look at my game collection, you'll find everything from Metal Gear Solid to Pikman, to Radiant Silvergun and Pier Solar. I love having a diverse taste. So that is why I'll never truly "master" the shump, cause as much is I love playing them, I enjoy many other genres. Even Clover-Tac says all he plays is shmups and that's one of the reasons hes so great at these games.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Practice regimes? Save states? Locking yourself into one 20 minute game for a few hours several days in a row? Nah, not for me.

It has been mentioned several times in the thread that this is non-sense. A 1cc doesn't mean spending half of your life to achieve it.

Why don't I try hard? Because I have more fun not trying hard. That's my way and I'm happy for anyone else to play how they like.

And this is exactly the reason why I'm one of those who claim that if more people tried hard, this community would be more interesting.
Can you give me a proper explanation about how you know that casual play is more fun and fulfilling than the sense of progress and achievement of ..achieving something, when you have never done it?
This reminds me of a kid complaining about salad that he has never eaten. If you're playing shmups and like them, the salad is already on the plate. So why won't you try it?
These games are BUILT for the thrill.

Sure, I understand if someone has already felt the satisfaction of a shmup achievement and still thinks that it's not their thing, but this is not the case here.

wow this is probably the nerdiest post

First point on practice (pain in the arse to quote via mobile), I'm not saying a 1CC takes forever. I was saying that the various ways others have stated are not for me.

At what point have I "never done it"? I've said how I prefer to play and that comes from years of gaming. When I had access to fewer games (no PC, just consoles) I had more time with individual games. Now there are a lot of games out there to play and I enjoy playing many genres - so I play what I want, when I feel like it.

For me, a 1CC is just a happy coincidence of playing a game I like a lot over time. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time I'm happy just to get further or beat my previous high score. These days it happens less because I just don't spend as much time playing shmups - because I have other games I want to play and other things I want to do with my free time (gaming or otherwise) I might enjoy the shmups more if I put more time into them to "get good" faster but then I'd enjoy other things less because I'm taking the time away from those. It's a balancing act and I'm happy with the balance I have.

[Immryr]

I have a low natural ability at shmups. I have put more than 30 hours into practicing futari 1.5 original and still struggle to get past stage 3 with any regularity. So saying things like "if you play a credit a day for a month you will certainly get the clear" is just plain stupid. It might be true for some people, but definitely not everyone.

[SMC]

I think the biggest problem I have is I don't do enough full runs and spend most of my time in practice mode. I've had practice runs on individual stages that I thought went extremely well by my standards, but when I get there in an actual credit nerves set in and it all falls to pieces.

[Special World]

I think if I'm ever talking to a new player about 1CCing, I'm gonna definitely clarify the concept a little bit. Because when I was introduced to the concept, it was sort of like "only what you can clear in one credit counts." So I then would only play for one credit and stop wherever I got a game over. Looking back, that's got to be the absolute worst way to practice, and basically makes stages 1 and 2 of any game boring as hell. Because you're going to *always die* on stage 3, and never really learn anything.

I think the biggest problem I have is I don't do enough full runs and spend most of my time in practice mode. I've had practice runs on individual stages that I thought went extremely well by my standards, but when I get there in an actual credit nerves set in and it all falls to pieces.

Do more full runs.