R-Gear (Rayforce sequel) uncovered...

[Shou]

Shou, has Taito/S-E given a definitive yes or no on whether they have any interest in giving R-Gear and Vertexer official releases to modern platforms at any point in the future? There's already been references to the former in the PS1 collection and in RayStorm HD.

If Vertexer's music is being recorded off the same PCB for an officially sanctioned OST, then I would assume they are aware of your activities.

No, they aren't aware of me and let's hope it stays that way or you will never see this stuff as the guys who own these protos are scared of the corporates.

There is an extreme anti-sharing mindset in Japan and a number of people who don't like each other (like the Neo Geo community). I have penetrated the highest levels of collector circles and as a foreigner, that is unheard of, but I have only been able to do that because of what I bring to the table and that I sit on the fence without taking sides (e.g. I acquired Cyber Sterra from a collector everyone hates).

One hint of betrayal (sharing) and it all falls apart so it may be some time before all are released.

BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS
1. BOARD COLLECTION
2. NETWORKING
3. MONEY
4. BE PRAYING

[EmperorIng]

I work at an art museum, so I know how absolutely nuts and petty collectors (and corporations) can be. Bringing up neo geo is also very apropos!

I wish you only the best when it comes to playing the tightrope game.

[Battlesmurf]

I'd donate to the cause, if it means anything.

[The Coop]

Night Striker II?

[ptoing]

No, that's Vertexer.

[Strikers1945guy]

Im assuming "what I bring to the table" basically means $? Or Yen Rather?

[Shou]

Im assuming "what I bring to the table" basically means $? Or Yen Rather?

I loan them my boards to put on location. I currently deal with 3 major arcades in Tokyo.

[Ed Oscuro]

There is an extreme anti-sharing mindset in Japan and a number of people who don't like each other (like the Neo Geo community). I have penetrated the highest levels of collector circles and as a foreigner, that is unheard of, but I have only been able to do that because of what I bring to the table and that I sit on the fence without taking sides (e.g. I acquired Cyber Sterra from a collector everyone hates).

It's easy to forget this. Everything I know about this stuff has me convinced you're telling the truth. In fact I'm just scared that somebody will find this post and go "they're sharing her...then they're going to share me..."

[Strikers1945guy]

Im assuming "what I bring to the table" basically means $? Or Yen Rather?

I loan them my boards to put on location. I currently deal with 3 major arcades in Tokyo.

Oh, well that's actually pretty cool !
The whole anti-sharing thing is a bit ridiculous though. What happened to sharing is caring?

[CStarFlare]

It's still technically piracy, and I think Japan actually puts people in jail for that. Also, uniqueness is a big deal for collectors who would not be happy to see their unique game suddenly commonplace on the internet (and probably bootlegged). And regardless of bootlegging, it probably hurts the value of their boards as the game is less mysterious and exciting to potential buyers.

I get what you mean ("this is amazing, people are going to be so psyched" would be my reaction too), but the kind of people who track down one of a kind prototypes are often people who take a different view of the hobby than casual fans who want to play play play.

[PAPER/ARTILLERY]

This sort of reminds me of the mindset of record collectors and DJ's that hunt for samples and breaks. There's that sense of ownership over the things that each person finds and they'll guard those finds in order to maintain their position as top collectors. I like that it adds to the mystery and folklore of the community but at the same time I would like everything shared and dumped if only to preserve it for history.

[STG]

This sort of reminds me of the mindset of record collectors and DJ's that hunt for samples and breaks. There's that sense of ownership over the things that each person finds and they'll guard those finds in order to maintain their position as top collectors. I like that it adds to the mystery and folklore of the community but at the same time I would like everything shared and dumped if only to preserve it for history.

Yeah, I've been collecting vinyl for years and I have the exact same mindset here when it comes to these kinds of rare discoveries. It certainly is how I approach the scene, although if someone asks me directly I'm usually happy to share info.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's still technically piracy,

What matters more - preserving our own memories, preserving for future generations, and preserving the life work of many people - or just washing our hands of it all because somebody's conception of fairness is having the right to lock our cultural heritage in a box and let it rot?

Not many companies had any appetite for doing even basic work to get games from popular systems working on newer systems, let alone delve into the details of unique arcade hardware setups. This isn't news.

and I think Japan actually puts people in jail for that. Also, uniqueness is a big deal for collectors

I have very little sympathy for people who deceive themselves into thinking that owning something makes them special, and not much more sympathy for people who hoard things with an eye towards charging top prices. I'm not against people trying to make money off of somebody else's work in this manner (though I am not really happy with the completely broken work for hire system and short-sighted business decisions that let these things happen), but nobody should pretend that brokers are doing society at large a great service. Whatever their service is worth is probably exactly what some random person will pay for it, which will be far less than the ability of all people in the future to access said works.

But anyway this is starting to expose some of the arguments that I'm sure shou would have liked to avoid. We're not really doing anything important here.

[SuperDeadite]

There is an extreme anti-sharing mindset in Japan and a number of people who don't like each other (like the Neo Geo community). I have penetrated the highest levels of collector circles and as a foreigner, that is unheard of, but I have only been able to do that because of what I bring to the table and that I sit on the fence without taking sides (e.g. I acquired Cyber Sterra from a collector everyone hates).

It's easy to forget this. Everything I know about this stuff has me convinced you're telling the truth. In fact I'm just scared that somebody will find this post and go "they're sharing her...then they're going to share me..."

This stuff is all very true. I collect X68K doujins, and I often get stuff that isn't dumped. I try to release what I can, but there are still games I can't release for a multiple of reasons. I stick to doujins and it's a really annoying game to play. I can't even imagine going into the world of arcade protos like Shou does.

[CStarFlare]

Collecting culture is what it is. Even the exclusivity associated with hardcore collecting might actually keep some games from disappearing - without that ~special feeling~, some may be less inclined to go the extra mile and find a game that would otherwise end up in the dump. A loose community may well see fewer developers and insiders willing to share. A rare game is probably better off in the hands of a collector than remaining with some of the developers out there... they're not too good at keeping code, you know?

Those who have the dedication to obtain rare things and share them are doing God's work. The others might not be our heroes, but I suspect they're a necessity.

(it would be really interesting to hear more about the prototype/rare scene in Japan, for arcade or X68k or what have you. probably a subject for a different thread, though)

[Shou]

Anyone who is a collector of games and doesn't understand the limited lifespan of magnetic media, EPROMs, flash ROMs etc are living in a bubble. These games will fail and if there isn't a repository of data somewhere, your game will be dead forever.

[gameoverDude]

It's still technically piracy, and I think Japan actually puts people in jail for that. Also, uniqueness is a big deal for collectors who would not be happy to see their unique game suddenly commonplace on the internet (and probably bootlegged). And regardless of bootlegging, it probably hurts the value of their boards as the game is less mysterious and exciting to potential buyers.

I get what you mean ("this is amazing, people are going to be so psyched" would be my reaction too), but the kind of people who track down one of a kind prototypes are often people who take a different view of the hobby than casual fans who want to play play play.

If I had a unique proto game, I would not be bothered by the ROM being spread. Collectors truly will want the original PCB/cart and won't be satisfied with just having the ROM sitting on their HDD.

Emulation and ports haven't affected the prices of highly demanded games like Dracula X on PC-Engine, Sega Saturn's Taromaru (I paid $230 for it once, then sold it later and broke even- now I see it going for $400), the Ketsui PCB, or Hagane for SNES (in the USA, a Blockbuster Video exclusive). There's always some demand for the original.

And there's what Shou just said. The real hardware won't be around forever.

[Shou]

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Shou, about this Raiden III DX prototype, is there even the slightest bit of info on it, or is it a complete mystery until you acquire it?

The last conversation I had on it was that elements of the work went into Raiden IV and they gave me stage 2 as an example. 3 DX was supposed to have an additional Challenge Mode to what is in vanilla 3.

I'm really intrigued by this, I'm really looking forward to seeing footage, if or when you manage to acquire it!

[Pretas]

If anyone is confused by Shou's last image, it's showing the original version of Galaxy Force, not Galaxy Force II (a revision, not a sequel). The original version was only on the market for two months before GFII's release, so it's extremely scarce and the PCB has never before been dumped.

Galaxy Force 1 has four instead of six stages, different (and harder) layouts, and you have to tap the button for each individual missile launch like in After Burner. So it's not as good but it has historical value.

[theclaw]

How random! Didn't think there was a Japanese version.

[Shou]

How random! Didn't think there was a Japanese version.

It's a proto. NAMCO didn't have the license for Japan and was unable to sell it.

[Strikers1945guy]

If anyone is confused by Shou's last image, it's showing the original version of Galaxy Force, not Galaxy Force II (a revision, not a sequel). The original version was only on the market for two months before GFII's release, so it's extremely scarce and the PCB has never before been dumped.

Galaxy Force 1 has four instead of six stages, different (and harder) layouts, and you have to tap the button for each individual missile launch like in After Burner. So it's not as good but it has historical value.

Very interesting! Thanks for the info here. Shou, I'm checking this thread daily.

[Randorama]

The most interesting bit of news I have heard so far, videogame-wise.

Out of curiosity: what year of publication R-Gear would have had, if they would have released it? 1995 or 1996?

[RGB]

So stoked right now. Do you think you could post a good quality footage of Vertexer ? It's *the* game I'm hoping to play one day.

[Pretas]

So stoked right now. Do you think you could post a good quality footage of Vertexer ? It's *the* game I'm hoping to play one day.

Don't even bother trying to prod Shou to release anything. Negotiating with Japanese collectors of rare and prototype arcade games is an extremely touchy business, and if you even slightly overstep your boundaries, any trust you built can all fall apart.

[Cers]

This is so so awesome.
Can you show us some screens of Dystopia please (when or if you get it) ?

[Shou]

When I can provide anything, I will.

[Ed Oscuro]

If anyone is confused by Shou's last image, it's showing the original version of Galaxy Force, not Galaxy Force II (a revision, not a sequel). The original version was only on the market for two months before GFII's release, so it's extremely scarce and the PCB has never before been dumped.

Galaxy Force 1 has four instead of six stages, different (and harder) layouts, and you have to tap the button for each individual missile launch like in After Burner. So it's not as good but it has historical value.

Still burns me up that I wasn't able to do anything about the one in the CN Tower (Toronto).

Though, since I wasn't in any position to make a serious inquiry, for all I know it's still there. Extremely unlikely, but...

[Pretas]

There was/is a Galaxy Force 1 cabinet in the CN Tower? A relative of mine was there just a couple of weeks ago, and they made no mention of any arcade games. They weren't looking for them though.