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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:13 am 



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Senko no Ronde 2: Reassembly from Duo, out for PS4 & PC this summer!


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:19 am 



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Damn, I am disappointed since this is not my kinda game, but I'm sure most folks will be overjoyed.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:20 am 



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That's really cool.

GOG release, too, please.


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:27 am 


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I've still yet to check out the first one on the 360 even though it sells for peanuts, but it's nice knowing the sequel will be available now.
No idea my laptop and internet situation is good enough for netplay, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:30 am 


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I'm completely hyped about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mech fighters>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shmups

Now the question, is this going to get a physical release on PS4?
That shitty 2hu clone got a disc release in the west, and even a LE including the OST and some other crap.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:24 am 



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testing testing 1 2 3


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:27 pm 


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James_Degica wrote:
testing testing 1 2 3


We see you James :D
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:55 pm 



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Now I've been allowed in, I'll try to keep you (somewhat) up to date on what we're doing over at Degica RE shooting games!


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:11 pm 


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James_Degica wrote:
Now I've been allowed in, I'll try to keep you (somewhat) up to date on what we're doing over at Degica RE shooting games!

Always much appreciated! Even if people here aren't very happy about how some shmups run on Steam, I'll always try to support your releases whenever possible.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:00 pm 



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James_Degica wrote:
Now I've been allowed in, I'll try to keep you (somewhat) up to date on what we're doing over at Degica RE shooting games!


Psst...Futari...


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:49 pm 


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christmascameearly wrote:
James_Degica wrote:
Now I've been allowed in, I'll try to keep you (somewhat) up to date on what we're doing over at Degica RE shooting games!


Psst...Pink Sweets & Muchi Muchi Pork...


Fixed!
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:43 am 


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It's been nearly 18 months since DFK with no word on any more cave releases, so that project looks to be over. I had expected them to do Akai Katana since that already has an international translation, but I guess the three they released weren't lucrative enough to continue.

Degica should get with Hamster and try to get us some ACA titles on Steam.


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:09 am 


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OmegaFlareX wrote:
It's been nearly 18 months since DFK with no word on any more cave releases, so that project looks to be over. I had expected them to do Akai Katana since that already has an international translation, but I guess the three they released weren't lucrative enough to continue.

Degica should get with Hamster and try to get us some ACA titles on Steam.

My guess is that it was up to Cave to properly support the ports that Degica published and we know the state of Cave today. They probably have no one left who can deliver near-arcade perfect tuning of those games. They rather license the IPs to M2 who do all the heavy lifting while they focus on their mobile garbage.

Tbh Degica is already great in my book from bringing us DBCS and soon Groove Coaster. I would love to see more IPs from Taito on Steam.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:40 am 


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If another Cave port's coming I've already predicted ESPgaluda II would be next on Steam, with the usual added technical issues, inaccuracies, and disappointment.

But there will be no drama this time since nobody cares about ESPgaluda II anyway. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:41 am 



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Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.

Oniros wrote:
Always much appreciated! Even if people here aren't very happy about how some shmups run on Steam, I'll always try to support your releases whenever possible.

All I can say is we'll do our best to please as many players as possible and hope we can live up to the games we are lucky enough to be involved with.

@christmascameearly, @z0mbie90, @OmegaFlareX
Thanks for the suggestions; I try my best to keep abreast of them here & on Steam and much as I'd like to get into details, I can't.
Whereas there hasn't been a new Cave game since DDPR, we have published Castle of Shikigami, Senko no Ronde 2, Game Tengoku and Space Invaders Extreme and as we've mentioned on Steam, we're still working with Cave, so don't give up hope.

Speaking of Senko no Ronde 2... https://twitter.com/DegicaGames/status/ ... 1808806912

@Oniros
Taito is a favourite, so I'm only too happy to be working with them. Who knows what will come after Groove Coaster.


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:21 am 


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Xyga wrote:
If another Cave port's coming I've already predicted ESPgaluda II would be next on Steam, with the usual added technical issues, inaccuracies, and disappointment.

But there will be no drama this time since nobody cares about ESPgaluda II anyway. :mrgreen:


I do. It's a great game and what got me into shmupping in the first place. (Okay, it was the iPad version, but nevertheless, I started to get into shmups on "real" hardware and developped an unhealthy obsessions with sticks, but I digress...) :D
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:36 pm 


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Mushihimesama got a Chinese language patch just last month, so there's definitely a pulse on the Degica-Cave front.

Degica's done a good job giving these games new life. However, M2's porting work is on a completely different level. If it were possible, I'd want all Cave shmups to get the Shottriggers treatment, then Degica can bring them to PC, which M2 doesn't seem to be interested in. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:10 pm 


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Galuda II is a really good game but not everyone's cup of tea, within cave's library it is definitely not as popular as any Mushi or Pachi.
(bit unfair isn't it?)

Regarding M2; maybe they know PC is too much trouble and they're fine working only with consoles ? If so I think that's fine, there's enough consoles out there, customers pool is large enough, the hardware is known fixed factor, they have skilled people and taste, why risk their fate with bloody damned Steam ?
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:45 pm 


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M2 have a few things on steam - http://store.steampowered.com/search/?developer=M2%20Co.%2CLTD

One published by degica, so maybe they're in talks about the shottriggers series?

Maybe these games just sell far better on console?
It's so easy to get lost in the tidal wave of new releases on steam as well nowadays. Finding good games is a lot of effort that most gamers just aren't prepared to put in.

PC is a far less transient platform too, if you do a really good port of a game, you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot if you were planning on selling that same game to the same people in 5-10 years time.

I'm surprised they haven't jumped on the switch bandwagon, it's having a big honeymoon period at the minute.


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:54 pm 


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I had the technique in mind, see how Cave struggled with porting actual arcade games to PC, consoles are easier/more reliable for that.

M2 have a very critique audience expecting the best quality, in their place I would be wary of a PC port that could break their so far near-flawless record.

PS: +1 for the Switch
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:35 pm 


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That's down to the developers rather than the platform though.
I'd agree that commercial japanese devs seem really inexperienced when it comes to the pc as a gaming platform but the folk who make doujin games have been managing pretty well for the longest time.

I take your point, if you're after an easy life, it's far easier to develop for one single configuration of hardware, but M2 seem to really know what they're doing in that regard, I can't imagine they've been taking any shortcuts or bodging things on there.
I have a bit more faith in their abilities than I do in whoever's left at cave. Their decision to do those pc ports in-house, I'm assuming was a money saving exercise rather than them thinking they were the best folk for the job.

The dev build of battle garegga they were testing at some show was running on windows - https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201610120071/


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:33 pm 


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clippa wrote:
I'd agree that commercial japanese devs seem really inexperienced when it comes to the pc as a gaming platform but the folk who make doujin games have been managing pretty well for the longest time.

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of programming/porting/etc., but I seem to recall the main "professed issue" when it came to the Cave Steam ports in particular was replicating (to fans' satisfaction) slowdown levels and other such specs of specific arcade hardware on the much more variable PC platform, which wouldn't be an issue for native doujin developers.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:46 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
clippa wrote:
I'd agree that commercial japanese devs seem really inexperienced when it comes to the pc as a gaming platform but the folk who make doujin games have been managing pretty well for the longest time.

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of programming/porting/etc., but I seem to recall the main "professed issue" when it came to the Cave Steam ports in particular was replicating (to fans' satisfaction) slowdown levels and other such specs of specific arcade hardware on the much more variable PC platform, which wouldn't be an issue for native doujin developers.

The fact that that's even an issue is concerning (albeit not surprising) because it implies that the gameplay code is tied to the hardware speed. It's far from impossible to keep the two decoupled (for specific examples, notice that MAME runs at the same speed on any system assuming the system meets the base requirements to run it at 100% speed, or just play any online multiplayer game). If you target both PS4 and Xbox One, or even just PS4 and PS4 Pro, you're already going to have to deal with that, albeit to a lesser extent.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:59 pm 



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Shepardus wrote:
The fact that that's even an issue is concerning (albeit not surprising) because it implies that the gameplay code is tied to the hardware speed. It's far from impossible to keep the two decoupled (for specific examples, notice that MAME runs at the same speed on any system assuming the system meets the base requirements to run it at 100% speed, or just play any online multiplayer game). If you target both PS4 and Xbox One, or even just PS4 and PS4 Pro, you're already going to have to deal with that, albeit to a lesser extent.

It's probably not that the gameplay code is tied to hardware speed (as that would probably result in the game running too fast, like what apparently happens with some old PC/DOS games), but rather that the exact gameplay experience is designed around the hardware having a very specific strength so that the (inevitable) slowdowns will trigger at the same exact points. In the case of ports, that hardware strength has to be accurately emulated/simulated or it results in an inaccurate port.

The actual problem is that they probably should not have exceeded what their hardware could handle at full speed; if the game always ran at 60 FPS, nobody would complain about slowdown inaccuracy because it wouldn't have slowed down originally. Or if they absolutely wanted to have that many bullets while still wanting accurate ports, they could have just had the game go half-speed at a certain bullet and/or object amount that the hardware could just barely handle at full speed, so that the slowdown wouldn't be hardware-reliant.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:01 am 


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the slodowns accuracy is one thing but there's also the basic framerate handling; i've ranted about that already but on two of my computers Mushi can't run without severe frame hangings once every few seconds, no matter the vsync setting, that's with two different windows pc's and two different nvidia gpus
on both I have to disable the gpus and switch to the intel igpus to get the game to run correctly, it's like the game was developprd to run on mommy laptops

there's just a million different pc configurations out there, being able to port games also means knowing how to deal with that
when M2 run a demo on a pc, well it's theirs, so it"ll be ok of course
you can think they're talented and it's true, but porting off-60hz games coming from a massively different system to windows is tough af

and when you hear 'pc port' you expect better than MAME that relies heavily on the cpu and laggy sync methods (not even mentioning the driver accuracy here), not saying it's mission impossible for the devs, but it's not running doujin with a translation patch either, with the shitty way Cave games were designed the difficulty is on a whole other level

that + picky audience = risky
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:24 am 


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Frankly I'm not too shocked by the framerate and slowdown issues (it could certainly be better but I imagine getting it right isn't trivial for inexperienced devs), but there are also some bugs that just baffle me, namely the thing in Mushihimesama where scores sometimes get submitted to the wrong leaderboard. I don't think that was ever fixed.
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:49 am 


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wait, maybe i wasn't clear, but when the picture hangs the game is still running but i can't play for like a second
and tha happens every minute or so
basically unplayable
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:58 am 


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Xyga wrote:
the slodowns accuracy is one thing but there's also the basic framerate handling; i've ranted about that already but on two of my computers Mushi can't run without severe frame hangings once every few seconds, no matter the vsync setting, that's with two different windows pc's and two different nvidia gpus


And I've never had any issues with Mushi (aside from the global bugs/inaccuracies) on 3 different computers, one of which was a shitty laptop from 2007 that was far below spec.

e: apparently the last few nvidia driver releases have been quite poor, lots of problems for people. Maybe rollback to 388.xx and see if that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:02 am 


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it's not a cpu/gpu issue, i've had it running perfectly on a third...running XP!

the cave ports on Steam were just not prperly optimized for all kinds of windows pc configs, just stating the obvious
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 Post subject: Re: Degica Shmups Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:30 am 


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For me it ran fine until one of the patches, which I think was supposed to reduce lag with vsync, actually made it worse for me, vsync on or off. By then I had already played it all I wanted to, though.
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