RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by spadgy »

HydrogLox wrote:Preorders open http://www.ngdevdirect.com/

Razion AES/Homecart JPN CE *collector edition* 499€
Razion AES/Homecart ENG CE *collector edition* 499€
Razion MVS RE Gamecenter Kit 399€

New Trailer #2
Sold out on both AES versions in under 24 hours! Well done NG.Dev! Obviously there's 150 people with good faith after the Neo XYX DC bugs stuff (obviously, with the NeoGeo versions being update-able, it's less of a concern here).

I really want Razion to be worth it, I'll remain optimistic, and I'm fine with any comparisons with other NG.Dev games now we've all poured through the similarities/differences, but I'm gonna have to wait it out until the (inevitable, surely?) DC version of Razion comes out and reveals itself as well tested. I did a lot of defending Neo XYX, but after a while it felt certain that more testing could have been done to make the DC release more enjoyable and quality before release (I still had a lot of fun with it).
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Pretas »

They probably decided there wasn't enough money to be made off a DC version. The profit margin on them is far smaller than the Neo carts, and they're likely treating this as a minor release that is primarily intended to raise development funds for the Ikari Warriors-style game they've been teasing for a long time. Seeing as how it's the umpteenth alternate version of an existing game (DUX), and NG has become quite used to making STGs.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by emphatic »

I think they want us to think there will be no DC version, just so they can release it when everything else is "sold out". Hopefully, this'll mean that the DC port will be free of most bugs if they base the port on their final NEO-GEO release.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by GrantWindsor »

Well, this definitely seems to have become more than what it initially appeared to be. Hopefully, there will be a DC release somewhere down the line, even if it's a limited release. Personally, I've always been satisfied with Timm's work, regardless of some issues which have been addressed by others in the past (and which I acknowledge as valid). When playing Timm's releases, I can tell that a lot of heart and love for the craft are put into the games, which trumps certain commercial releases in my opinion, like Sine Mora. As for Rene, I'm just going to wait and see how Ghost Blade turns out, as I'm all Dux'd out and the lack of any recent news (and displayed progress) is not encouraging.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Muchi Muchi Spork »

After all the bitching last time over the bugs and not getting free bugfixed discs in the mail I don't blame them for not making DC versions anymore. People swore them off over it.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by spadgy »

Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:After all the bitching last time over the bugs and not getting free bugfixed discs in the mail I don't blame them for not making DC versions anymore. People swore them off over it.
I take your point - and again I defended the game a lot at the time - but the bugs were a fairly harsh reality. I'd guess the bugs were to blame more than people's reaction. But I can see that the whole thing - whatever deserves to see the tip of the finger of blame – may mean no DC disk this time. I hope not. If it's quality, thoroughly debugged release, I've got time for Razion!
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Bonus! »

Just seen on the Shmups Twitter:
http://t.co/Dga0IVhXFO

2nd trailer for that game. At one point the music sounds an awful lot like the underwater theme of Donkey Kong Country.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Mero »

The MVS version of this should be being sent out right about now, which means that they've actually got it out in the calendar year 2014.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by gameoverDude »

Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:After all the bitching last time over the bugs and not getting free bugfixed discs in the mail I don't blame them for not making DC versions anymore. People swore them off over it.
I'd probably rather have a Steam PC or console digital release port instead, TBH. That would make bugfixes easier, and also get a 1:1 conversion (IINM a few minor things got cut from DC Fast Striker due to RAM limits). M2 could probably help with Neo-Geo emulation for PS3/360/PS4/XB1.

While the $500-600 limited production Neo carts would be there for the AES/MVS market, a $15 digital release on consoles/PC would be good to go for extra sales.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by AKAperly »

I got shipping confirmation yesterday; excited.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Pretas »

NG:DEV is never going try downloadable releases without a pronounced wait after a game's Neo/DC release, AND a Kickstarter to ensure they can make a profit on it. Not enough people pledged support for their proposed Wii U/3DS digital release of Gunlord, so they simply didn't consider it worth their time and money.

They're never going to use Steam for fear of devaluing the collectible price points of their games to rock bottom, and the fact that anything on PC is far more likely to be widely pirated.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Kaiser »

Pretas wrote:They're never going to use Steam for fear of devaluing the collectible price points of their games to rock bottom, and the fact that anything on PC is far more likely to be widely pirated.
And that's why they are cowards, what's the point of being afraid of porting games to PC if YOU ALREADY sold out all your copies including re-prints, and you cannot make money off used copies! And since you cannot make money off used copies, devaluation of your game doesn't matter SHIT because things are already out of your control. Ignoring easy money oppurtunities that won't put you at risk is failing business 101.

Also, probably the reason they don't want to do PC is that they cannot make a GOOD kickstarter off it, here's why, all people would pay for, would be just PORTING the code, no licenses (outside steam greenlight, other indie distributions don't charge as much or at all. At worst it would be something like a license for FMOD) which would backfire on their stupid marketing practices pretty badly.

I cannot stop but grin that you pointed out PIRACY as the main reason, actually piracy isn't the worst reason they would be afraid of, it's that if they made a quick buck of a port and screwed up, they would get bad reputation that would keep expanding and eventually make them look shit everywhere, KEEP in mind that the game's price can do the same, if they asked $60, they would be pretty much done for in PC market. That can be a legimitate reason, if you are a bad dev. Considering how much Neo XYX DC release was a fail, we all know how bad would that be.

Now as for piracy itself, that's a touchy subject, you cannot stop pirates from pirating your game because you only make the matter worse, and there will be pirates who even pirate FREEBIES so the price doesn't matter that much to them unless it's severely overpriced. But, here's the thing, did it stop Crimzon Clover from going to Nesica? No? Did it stop CCWI from coming to steam and now GOG? Nope! Piracy can be overrated, it is a thing, but you cannot make big eyes about it anymore as a developer, it will only hurt you. It's a case of "Deal with it".

So pretty much, they are bad at business 101 and more than that, and by them I MEAN the internal staff in NG Dev, not the artists they hire or composers. NOW before any of you goes rogue on me, keep in mind, this is just my opinion, i've already exhausted what I said, I won't be arguing my opinion, it's just a point of view.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by gameoverDude »

The Neo-Geo hardcore would likely pay the higher MVS/AES price, because they want it on the actual SNK hardware. A PC or other digital version would enable more to enjoy the game. I can't see a digital release devaluing the Neo carts.

More than a few of SNK's AES games have held value, despite the ports on other systems. Think of Garou which can easily fetch hundreds of dollars on AES, even though it's been ported to Dreamcast, PS2, and X360. I've seen one on eBay with 26 bids, currently at just over $500. And Gunlord on AES is listed for $1700+ at the moment, even with it having a very good Dreamcast port.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Fudoh »

Shouldn't most German or even European buyers have this by now ? Any impressions ? I will need a few days to get my MVS up and running....

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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by RaidenViper »

I'm curious what people think of the game so far... or could someone record some footage?
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Ghegs »

I'll be getting the game tomorrow so I'll record some footage, but since I helped out a bit in testing the game, I can already say it's a really fun shmup. Very enjoyable for horzie-lovers like myself.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by RaidenViper »

Great thanks! the soundtrack sounds really cool. Too bad I couldn't afford their new game this time. This is not the right time of the year for me to buy a new Neo Geo game :lol:
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by gameoverDude »

Got my shipping confirmation on 12/8.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by system11 »

Played it a bit tonight.

Good stuff:
*) Graphics are pretty, lots of movement. Bosses are excellent.
*) Player missiles not as distracting as original videos.
*) Scoring system is interesting, almost innovative due to lock mechanic.
*) Music is awesome as usual.
*) Shockbox art is cool.
*) I enjoyed playing it for an hour before getting back to scouring ebay for mad lootz.

Indifferent stuff:
*) Movement speed is slow generally. I like slow but this is *quite* slow when in focus fire. On the other hand tapping fire and using normal speed didn't feel very satisfying. Would prefer a third button for slow fire with normal rapid fire on button A. Perhaps in a patch, that one should be very possible and surprised nobody thought of this.
*) Enemy bullets could be slightly brighter and player shots slightly dimmer. Only minor.
*) Sprite breakups, typical for stressed NG hardware.

Bad stuff:
*) Graphics aren't hand drawn. ;)
*) Game crash with MCU ERROR in a very specific place (instruction screen as the ship fires the first bullet). Can't reliably reproduce, it just happens when it wants to and only at that point. Reported it to them already.
*) Cart PCBs are not slightly offset like in every other neo cart ever including Neo Xyx in the same wooden case. I had to take mine apart before I was totally sure which way up it should go, seriously. It will easily fit both ways, I expect someone will kill one soon.
*) Lid of cart (if considering taking it apart to apply updates) is now on the bottom of the cart, it used to be possible to pop the lid and leave everything else together.
*) NGdev have pushed the hardware as far as it will go, minor slowdown here and there in normal mode, fairly frequent in maniac.
*) They need to start only offering courier service on items this expensive, mine arrived with a big hole punched in the side, via normal post. Luckily nothing inside was damaged.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Ghegs »

Here's a direct-feed video showing roughly the first half of the game on Maniac difficulty: http://youtu.be/EPf3waKjDzU

Bear in mind that since Youtube can't display a video like this in 60 FPS some of the graphical effects, like the gold icons flickering when they're about to disappear, aren't displayed properly.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Xyga »

Now this is an euroshmup I'd love to own. Too bad I can't afford it atm. ^^"
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by sengoku 2 »

I just received this game today, and i planned to post a video gameplay.
As you, it will cover the first half ( until the boss this time ) , it will be on Normal mode, with a view external from my egret 2 as here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvZoAbqFQSg .

It was my first play on arcade cabinet and i lost many times. :lol:
At the end of game, i saw that you ( Ghegs ) are one of beta testers of this game. 8)

About sprite breakups, i have a very big one when i destroy first boss and i was afraid for the following because it was just the first boss.
But fortunately, others sprites breakup are normal. ( we are not surprised on neo geo system because we know hardware limitation of this system that is 97 sprites per scanline. So we usually see it on different neo geo shmup )

Some details :
- with beam shot, this shot can pass through walls. It's good to anticipate and destroy quickly some ennemies.
- we can touch floor and ceiling, very useful in small spaces.

Good game with good graphics ( mainly enemies sprites and big boss ) , good music , good gameplay and good replay-value.

I hope to upload this video for tonight.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by system11 »

Kaiser wrote:And that's why they are cowards, what's the point of being afraid of porting games to PC if YOU ALREADY sold out all your copies including re-prints, and you cannot make money off used copies! And since you cannot make money off used copies, devaluation of your game doesn't matter SHIT because things are already out of your control. Ignoring easy money oppurtunities that won't put you at risk is failing business 101.
You speak as if porting to the PC from 68k is easy. Possible? Certainly. However, it will simply get pirated a lot and honestly perhaps they think the time is better spent making more new games instead. If I was in their situation I think I would probably say 'whatever, fuck PC' if I was primarily developing 68k code. If I was developing PS4 games which are not 20 million miles away from a PC in architecture, then the effort required for the PC port is substantially lower, and it might still be worth it. Even then I might on principle want to say 'whatever, fuck you pirates' and not release it.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by emphatic »

They have the perfect thing going with exclusive NEO-GEO games. The games will 100% sell all copies guaranteed by the NEO-GEO collectors' community no matter how buggy or dull the games are. Why would the want to reach a bigger audience that will only nag for patches and complain? :lol:
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by system11 »

emphatic wrote:They have the perfect thing going with exclusive NEO-GEO games. The games will 100% sell all copies guaranteed by the NEO-GEO collectors' community no matter how buggy or dull the games are. Why would the want to reach a bigger audience that will only nag for patches and complain? :lol:
That DC release of XYX was pretty messed up, it's a shame because XYX on Neo Geo is pretty awesome. Not just 'hey it's neat to play something slightly different' awesome, but actually a good game.

My overall impressions of Razion are good so far too. The scoring is fun.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by sengoku 2 »

My gameplay video on egret 2 filmed with iphone, better watch hd resolution ( 720 p or 1080 p ) in order to have CRT feeling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YviI8-T6IM
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Stevens »

sengoku 2 wrote:My gameplay video on egret 2 filmed with iphone, better watch hd resolution ( 720 p or 1080 p ) in order to have CRT feeling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YviI8-T6IM
I must admit that looks like a damn fine hori and I would snatch it up in a second if it was released on the DC. I've only bought Gunlord from NG up to this point, so I'm willing to give them a chance on a shmup.

Hopefully Ghost Blade delivers. After reading the initial reactions for Raizon I am hopeful.

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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by ryu »

I really liked the visual presentation seen in the earlier trailer, so I'm glad they managed to keep that up throughout the whole game if sengoku2's footage is anything to go by.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Strider77 »

It makes me so mad I kicked started Redux and wound up with crap and now I can't even pay again to have this on DC. I really would love to read an interview on just WTF happened. I swear it almost seems in retaliation to keep this off DC. Kinda like see what you paid for... Hahahaaa.

I didn't mind the XYX port issues. I was understanding and still loved the game. I absolutely love Gunlord. The lack of a DC port and combined with kickstarting Redux leaves such a bitter taste.

That's not mentioning the super shitty tin box that was dented to hell because it was thrown in a padded mailer.

Has there ever been any more insight or comments released about all of this?
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Cagar »

I want to play this so much. Looks and sounds amazing.
Thanks for the videos!
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