RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

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spmbx
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by spmbx »

Looking at the trailer it seems they did tweak the missiles-thing mentioned in the previous page of the thread. They now start more opaque. I'm assuming they still "work" when they are not fully in the foreground yet.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by baconcow »

Has there been an announcement regarding this coming to the eShop?
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Samuray
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Samuray »

baconcow wrote:Has there been an announcement regarding this coming to the eShop?
Yes, there has. That it won't be coming. Which is so very retro in itself :mrgreen:

https://tinyurl.com/4jby97uj
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Ghegs »

Well that's certainly an approach to things, one I can't quite claim to understand. And they already have Gunlord X in the eShop, too. I thought this modern way of releasing your game both digitally and physically gives the developers the best of both worlds. Quick 'n easy digital release for the masses, pricier physical release with some goodies for the collectors & shmucks.

Speaking of, I got my Razion EX LE today but only had time to do a single run. It's been a long while since I've played my MVS cart so I couldn't remember much at first, but I did start getting some deja vu-ish feelings as I went on.
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spmbx
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by spmbx »

I don't really get it either. Is there a (recurring?) fee involved in putting your game on the eshop? Would make sense if the cost of publishing it is so high as to not make it worth the effort.

Anyway i also got it in the mail this week, it's on the backlog stack until i really have time to properly check it out.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Jeneki »

Cool this is getting released on a modern platform. I liked Fast Striker on Dreamcast well enough, but I'm not going to jump through hoops for NGDev games.
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geremy
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by geremy »

Fast Striker was amazing. I'd love to see a switch version.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Darkseed_5150 »

Got it in my cart and by the time I was done w payment is info it was gone. My fault I guess
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Sumez »

I freaked out a little, becuase it turns out NG Dev had made a new storefront since the last time I bought something from them, so I had to create a new user account. But fortunately they allowed PayPal express checkout.
Got myself a copy, and it's a lot cheaper than the Neo Geo one, so I guess it's alright if I don't like it that much. :) I enjoyed Kraut Buster well enough.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by spmbx »

Yeah it was wild again. The chase is better than the catch, maybe :D
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Ghegs »

Sumez wrote:I enjoyed Kraut Buster well enough.
Yeah, I hope they'll port that to the Switch as well. I have the MVS cart and it really deserves to be played by more people, I think it's their best game. Throw in some similar improvements that Gunlord X and Razion EX received (stage select/training mode, etc) and it'd be awesome.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

spmbx wrote:The chase is better than the catch, maybe :D
This definitely seems it may be the case. Pretty ignorant of them to assume that locking a release to one platform AND physical only and it's really made me lose the little bit of respect I had for them.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Ghegs »

Some answers directly from NG:Dev themselves are available in Shmup Junkie's recent video about Razion EX. To quickly summarize:

- There will be more Razion EX physical copies available.
- The reason for not releasing the game in eShop was due to how poorly Gunlord X fared there.
- Fast Striker EX is coming.
- They plan to do at least one physical PS4/Switch release every year.
- They've started development on exclusive PS4/Switch shmups.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Sengoku Strider »

That was a really good video. I'm kind of amazed how up front they were about everything.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by EmperorIng »

I mean, we shouldn't be surprised that a group that survives off of collector's editions of Neo Geo carts has a business model buffeted by scarcity and rarity. :P
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Rastan78
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Rastan78 »

The reason for not releasing the game in eShop was due to how poorly Gunlord X fared there.
So they just give up on digital releases altogether? Seems very unwise in this day and age. Sounds like they need more visibility and availability not less.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Austin »

I'm willing to support their titles if they release digitally. Maybe not on day one, and maybe not even for that first year they are out.. there's a lot of games out there competing for my attention.. but I will get them eventually.

I just picked up the digital releases of Gunlord X (Switch) and Fast Striker (PS4) recently and was happy to do so. Was I late to the party? Yes, but I finally got around to getting them. (Honestly, I didn't even know Fast Striker was on PS4, heh; it took someone's YouTube video of them casually scrolling through their game list for me to realize it was even a thing).

I'm not double dipping with modern physicals when I have already purchased them on previous platforms, like the Dreamcast. The enhancements in these new versions are nice but ultimately the games themselves aren't all that different to warrant the cost. The cheaper digital options are a nice compromise.

Regarding not releasing on eShop, I don't quite understand that. How hard is it to release a game there? I mean, isn't it basically the same data as the physical, just distributed digitally? What am I missing here? Different publishing requirements? More hoops to jump through? With all the crap released there, I can't imagine it's hard. Also, even if a game doesn't sell like crazy, having the digital option allows residual sales over years as opposed to a short burst with some limited runs of physicals. Word of mouth in the retro scene in particular goes a long way and some of us don't even become aware or interested until years down the road. And by that point, if you don't have something for sale, people can't buy it.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Ghegs »

Rastan78 wrote:
The reason for not releasing the game in eShop was due to how poorly Gunlord X fared there.
So they just give up on digital releases altogether? Seems very unwise in this day and age. Sounds like they need more visibility and availability not less.
Yeah, I still don't quite understand their reasoning. Even if the game would sell poorly, it would still sell something - as it is, it won't sell at all. Maybe there's something to the eShop process we're not privy to?
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Jeneki »

Based on NGDev's old business model, release to NeoGeo collectors first and then to Dreamcast later, I don't believe they will put off digital forever.

I'm willing to purchase a physical if they are willing to take my money sitting on the table (shrug). Till then I'll wait; there's lots of new stuff coming out all the time that doesn't require jumping through hoops for.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Astro City II »

It's a totally bogus and anti gamer business model, They say their games don't sell digitally but then build a business around FOMO and creating false scarcity so an overpriced physical copy creates a buzz and sells out on pre-order.

I won't ever support that.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by schleichfahrt »

Astro City II wrote:It's a totally bogus and anti gamer business model
The question is: what is a pro-gamer business model worth if you can't make a living off of it? The only way to earn these days seems to rake it in from the collecting sick-grabbers.

For example, if you release on steam, you have folks waiting for the sales season, because they don't want to pay $4.99 for your game but rather $2.49.
From a vendor's perspective these people are dirt unter your shoe. This is worth exactly zero.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by BloodHawk »

I am not knowledgeable in publishing at all, but hearing the excuse of "Gunlord X didn't sell as well as we hoped digitally so we aren't listing anything else digitally" sounds very sketchy to me. If you have already spent the time and money to develop the game and coordinate physical releases, how much more money would it cost to just list it on the eShop?

I probably am using the wrong source, but according to this it's free. Even if it's not free I would be shocked if it was a substantial amount based on how much shovelware I see on the eShop.

Are they making a conscious business decision to not release their games digitally in order to protect the value of their physical releases?
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Redfox »

I'm in the camp that feels they're leaving our money on the table by not taking it via eshop release or a real publisher. Hell at the very least do a freaking preorder window after a set amount of time and see what the number is and do the cartridge run based on that. Don't just say "we are doing x and you're fucked if you don't jump when the door opens". Def almost sounds like they like screwing with us, or maybe they hate our money, or prefer to remain in obscurity, gah! This coming from someone who has followed them since the Neo homebrew days (I actually own the dreamcast ports of Fast Striker and Gunlord, got them on release almost a decade ago now), I was planning on getting this on eshop till they said it wasn't happening. I"m pissed LOL. I'm not supporting childish tactics. Eshop is easy, one sale is still one sale which is more than no sale. These guys are silly.

They want a publisher? Go to Eastasiasoft, they publish lots of awesome games on eshop and they can advertise! The excuses these guys give are just that, excuses!
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Astro City II »

schleichfahrt wrote:
Astro City II wrote:It's a totally bogus and anti gamer business model
The question is: what is a pro-gamer business model worth if you can't make a living off of it? The only way to earn these days seems to rake it in from the collecting sick-grabbers.

For example, if you release on steam, you have folks waiting for the sales season, because they don't want to pay $4.99 for your game but rather $2.49.
From a vendor's perspective these people are dirt unter your shoe. This is worth exactly zero.
Those people will always exist on every format, The answer isn't to release a limited physical run only where if you want to play it later it'll cost you 2-3x as much on an internet marketplace. Ideally the longevity of a digital release would mean you have a large period of availability and the potential for future BC and enhancements meaning your game is always relevent but these devs are pretty much destroying their own content.

The other problem with Steam is the refund policy where people will credit feed the game 'complete it' and then get it refunded all within Steam's time frame. Unfortunately that's a huge reason why most games are increasingly now Switch/PS4 only. They don't even have the forsight to put it on the console with the best BC and futureproofing solution meaning their game will be available for longer to another different audience.

It's a shame the devs feel this is a valid way to sell their games as all it's doing is turning niche genres into a cynical collectors edition cash grab trying to double the value of content while at the same time stopping people who might want to play it.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

What will you people say when they jump in the Exarcadia wagon.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by spmbx »

I would question their sanity
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by Jonpachi »

Redfox wrote:They want a publisher? Go to Eastasiasoft, they publish lots of awesome games on eshop and they can advertise! The excuses these guys give are just that, excuses!
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banjoted
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by banjoted »

I work for a developer/publisher. Y'all are VASTLY oversimplifying the time/cost required for digital publishing. You don't do it unless you're as close to certain as possible that you'll get a good return.
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by SPM »

banjoted wrote:I work for a developer/publisher. Y'all are VASTLY oversimplifying the time/cost required for digital publishing. You don't do it unless you're as close to certain as possible that you'll get a good return.
Could you elaborate a bit more? It's okay if you don't, but it would help to understand these situations
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geremy
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Re: RAZION - NG:DEV.TEAM shmup coming to NEO GEO Fall 2014

Post by geremy »

I bought and really really enjoyed Gunlord EX digitally. I was hoping to do the same with Razion. Haven't had luck in picking up the cart yet.
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