Is it ok to dislike DDPDOJ?

[Anarchos]

I have found things much more easy to tamper with since I started playing seriously, not only because I played a specific game and learned it's patterns, but because the general playing has increased my overall . So playing ddp before going for DOJ is imo a good idea. If he plays ddp and other games for a couple of months I think he will find DOJ to be more accessable later on.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Man... since when have we been talking about Raiden's DDP/DOJ abilities anyway?

To whom it all may concern...If you don't like the game, stop bitching about it and stop playing it! PLay something else "easier" then.
This isn't even on topic anymore...
"Is it ok to dislike DOJ?" I don't know, is it ok? I could care less if you like it or not! Is it ok to suck at DOJ?...sure, but don't run away from it because its "hawd".

One could cut the tension in this thread with a "hyper"...that is if they could earn one!

[MadSteelDarkness]

Twitchdoctor and Thunderforce speak much truth here, guys.

I think what it all boils down to is: one should be able to accept a game on it's own terms. A crap game is a crap game, but one that's as well put together as DOJ ought to be appreciated, even if it doesn't conform itself to the abilities of the player. YOU must rise to IT'S challenge level.

And Twitch is dead on when he said that you've got to play it when your ON. If you're looking for something to play when you're off, pop in Super Aleste

[raiden]

YOU must rise to IT'S challenge level.

games are for people, not the other way around. If you consider yourself less important than a game you happen to own, well, that´s your problem.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

YOU must rise to IT'S challenge level.

games are for people, not the other way around. If you consider yourself less important than a game you happen to own, well, that´s your problem.

This thread has officially "Gone Stupid" right here!
Raiden, you seem like a cool guy, and a pretty decent shmup player, but that last comment you made sounds pretty fuggin silly to me.
Nobody's debating if DOJ, or any other shmup is more important than the human being playing it...
Its all about the challenge it will/may provide. DOJ will provide a strong challenge and put up quite a fight. All I'm saying is, don't run away with your tail between you're legs just because its not as easy as ESPGaluda...

Then again, Dave .K, maybe "manic" style shmups are a little more than you can handle right now? Still, I think the younger crowd has a better chance at "clicking" with these newer manics anyway. (Darn Young Gunners).
Hell, Kaneda was only playing shmups for two years, and yet he's pretty frickin good at DDP. (I doubt he was playing in the 16 bit era, let alone even born beyond that time) Then again, you have another young gunner, Mode 7, who still has probs with DOJ (I don't know his current status with the game, maybe he's 1CC it a hundered times by now...I wouldn't be surprised)

Don't expect every game to hold your hand all the way through...sometimes you gotta earn that high score!

Please, no more stupid comments...

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Hey look on the bright side here...by the time I mod my PS2, get DOJ, you'll have a "head start" on even ole humble me.
Heck, you may even 1CC the beast!

BTW: I was just kidding...you'll NEVER beat it!
No, really, its not a race to see who can 1CC the game first, nor should you rush yourself into it.

[MadSteelDarkness]

No, Raiden...

I'm afraid you missed the point. It's not about my importance versus the game's importance. It's about improving my skills by meeting it's challenge instead of demanding that the game dumb itself down for me.

But hey, to each their own...

[Thunder Force]

Raiden, you seem like a cool guy, and a pretty decent shmup player, but that last comment you made sounds pretty fuggin silly to me.
Nobody's debating if DOJ, or any other shmup is more important than the human being playing it...
Its all about the challenge it will/may provide.

I don't think raiden meant that literally. My interpretation of what raiden was trying to say, is basically why should a person put pressure on himself, i.e. force himself, to play a game if the gameplay (including difficulty, which is an intergral part of gameplay) doesn't appeal to them naturally.

It's like saying that it is worth enduring an experience that is not naturally enjoyable to someone, so that in the end they are rewarded. But what is the reward in this case? To 1CC the game or get a reputable score? In essence that philosophy is akin to saying that the purpose of being a shmup fan is to real such goals. It's goal-oriented thinking. But for some shmup fans, the purpose is the "journey" (i.e. the act of less-structured playing and enjoying) not the "destination" (i.e. reaching a scoring or progression goal). This is pefectly legitimate. In such cases if someone feels they obviously don't enjoy playing, plus they're apathetic towards setting arbitrary goals, then forcing themselves to keep playing it may not be the best advice... "life's too short to play games that don't appeal to you".

There are hundreds of shmups to choose from anyway, so a person can never find time to play them all properly, there is no harm in discarding any that don't suit your tastes.

Just my two cents.

Twitchdoctor and Thunderforce speak much truth here, guys...

MadSteelDarkness- This is my first post in this thread, so I think you've gotten me confused with someone else with regards to that comment...

[Dave_K.]

Then again, Dave .K, maybe "manic" style shmups are a little more than you can handle right now? Still, I think the younger crowd has a better chance at "clicking" with these newer manics anyway. (Darn Young Gunners).
Hell, Kaneda was only playing shmups for two years, and yet he's pretty frickin good at DDP. (I doubt he was playing in the 16 bit era) Then again, you have another young gunner, Mode 7, who still has probs with DOJ (I don't know his current status with the game, maybe he's 1CC it a hundered times by now...I wouldn't be surprised)

You may have a point. I'm from the real old crowd, I've owned an original Robtron cab for years, and only play it on 10. I enjoy manic style play. . But breaking into the DonPachi series with DOJ is just a little more than I expected I guess. Its clear now that this game's primary audience was for verterans of the series. So the question of accesability has been answered.

[MadSteelDarkness]

oops, Thunderforce, I meant sffan.

[raiden]

All I'm saying is, don't run away with your tail between you're legs just because its not as easy as ESPGaluda...

I wasn´t talking about running away, I was talking about choosing a game which is appropriate to one´s skills. I even mentioned the possibility of training to meet the DOJ challenge later on. I really don´t get what kind of "bravery" you´re trying to promote here. There´s NOTHING brave about playing a game, however hard it might be, so why should you call people cowards or pussies if they play something else than you do? If you really feel the need to express your contempt, shouldn´t it be sufficient to express it towards the games instead of to the people?

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

First off, its not about "Bravery"...its about skill, and rising to the challenge.
I could care less if someone "plays" better than me.
I'm encouraging this fellow to try harder ,and not give up because of the difficulty!

When I first played Gradius, it kicked my ass, I was used to the typical/popular games like Defender,Scramble,Asteriods,Phoenix, etc,etc. Still, I accepted the new challenge and moved on! I was much happier.

I'm not going to say any more here, I've already stated my claim, and I stand behind it! I also feel as though I've explained myself fully...there shouldn't be any questions at all. (READ THE THREAD!)

QUIT BITCHING!

I have made very many friends here, and I appreciate them. I also have made a few enemies(people who dislike the TWITCH) They're stupid! I'm more than sure you are going to put me on you're little "internet shit list", well good for you.

So far,in this thread, I've been accused of being a Racist Redneck, a Machoistic punk, and God knows what else...seriously I'm offended.

Mod edit from Dylan: I don't mind you venting but I can't allow you to swear at everyone in the thread, Twitch.

Any further discussion of this topic could be retarded.

Don't MOD this, I want people to see my grief...
Read the whole post agian...the whole thread has now officially got on my nerves.

I try and explain myself, and yet I have stupid remarks about games being more important the than player and "Bravery" as well as racism!?

[raiden]

I have made very many friends here, and I appreciate them. I also have made a few enemies(people who dislike the TWITCH) They're stupid!

talking about yourself in 3rd person?

seriously I'm offended. (...) Don't MOD this, I want people to see my grief... (...) the whole thread has now officially got on my nerves.

look into the mirror.

[CMoon]

Er...ah...wow...

So yeah, as far as what Twitch was saying, I think being too hard can't be listed as a games fault (though it certainly might make it pretty intimidating). I hear Twitch's argument best because I know I wrote off Mars Matrix for a while because it gets so damn hard, but I also think that is in part why it has held its appeal, and it is certainly the best shooter by Takumi.

Back to DOJ--is there really that much use for the Hyper? It apparently is of little use during boss fights (better not to use it) but unfortunately takes the place of the bomb. I guess I'll be using them as soon as I get them just to clear out space for my more valuable bomb inventory (I'm sure there's an FAQ or even a strategy guide but I don't give a damn about points in this game, just trying to survive to level 3!)

[BulletMagnet]

Back to DOJ--is there really that much use for the Hyper?

Used during the right spots it can drive your combo total through the ceiling: even a n00b like myself has managed to rack up nearly 500 hits with it (though others, I'm sure, have pulled off a lot bigger ones than that): even if you've got one "left over" when you encounter a boss, it does cancel out all bullets for a moment when used, so it can still save your butt in a tight spot, and if the sped-up bullets become too much for you you could always just use a bomb to cancel the hyper's effects out. Of course, if you're really good you can purposely use Hypers during boss fights and pull off a huge boss hit bonus, though that's way beyond my abilities.

[Dave_K.]

I'm encouraging this fellow to try harder ,and not give up because of the difficulty!

Nobody is disagreeing with the "stand" you are taking here. Whats strange is that nobody has ever said they are giving up or running scared, including myself. The comment in the first post about not playing this in the arcade is simply that...I wouldn't waste 100yen per game playing something that is not accessabile to beginners of the series. I have also stated that since I have the PS2 port, I am not abandoning it, but will have to come back to it at a later time once I can gain a better appreciation for it by playing the previous games.

So the only bitching going on in this thread, seems to be the baiting you attract to yourself.

[Super Laydock]

I think what it all boils down to is: one should be able to accept a game on it's own terms. ...YOU must rise to IT'S challenge level.

I totally agree with those words.
I REALLY suck at lots of games, but that doesn't neccessarily mean I dislike the game itself. Gunbird is the perfect example for me: I love playing it often for an hour or so, though I have only once reached stage 5 ever (having a hard time reaching 4 sometimes too).

@ Raiden AND Twitchdoctor: Temper, temper!

No need to get personal on something like this or anything else for that matter. Please?

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

*shakes head in disgust*

Yep, I'm now officially done with this thread, as I have nothing more to say here.

[Dylan1CC]

I'm now closing the thread as A)It seems the merits of the game's difficulty have already been discussed as much as needed despite the fighting and B)Things are just way too tense in here now.