Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

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BPzeBanshee
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Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Thanks to mamedev 'hap' we now have something 'hap'-pening in the background for most games using the ZSG2 chip in the Taito G-NET and Taito FX1 driver.

TEST BUILDS: (links removed)

Speaking of recent developments, 1942 also has recent discrete hardware stuff hooked into it thanks to couriersud. Dat discrete audio breakbeat.

EDIT (1-3): Updated builds with I'm not even sure what, but anything I missed with zsg2 stuff before should be here now since hap hasn't touched it in a while.
Last edited by BPzeBanshee on Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:39 am, edited 6 times in total.
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cools
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by cools »

I'm fascinated with what's being done with the UI, are any changes visible yet?
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

I think it's all being kept in a separate branch from master, I've not noticed any UI changes yet in the master branch myself but then again I always have issues compiling MESS - I figure if any changes made it through it'd be more obvious there.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

I'd just like to bump this to report some changes, with an updated build in the first post to show. From what I've tested:

- Raystorm sounds like a bunch of shrieking church bells
- G-Darius seems weird, has complete silence for some parts and then partial tinny/quiet music
- XII Stag no longer crashes, but spits popmessages about "ZSG2 mask 00FF, contact MAMEdev", runs like horseshit and still doesn't make any noise
- Psyvariar Revision actually resembles music, but is very quiet (turn zsg2 channels up to 2 and 100% volume in soundtest to hear it best)

Performance hit from emulating the chip, when it actually behaves that is, doesn't seem too huge to me. Go hap go! :D
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by g0me3 »

[140221/21:33:15] <hap> anyone here is a member on shmups.system11.org?
[140221/21:40:01] <hap> could you tell this guy that xiistag runs fine, he should remove NVRAM folder http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49309
[140221/21:40:01] <hap> all gnet games sound ok AFAIK
[140221/21:40:01] * hap maybe a member there, since username "hap" exists, but i don't know which email i registered with :p
[140221/21:55:27] <hap> afk

http://git.redump.net/mame/commit/?id=4 ... e48fc851b9
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Ah, thanks g0me3 and hap! I updated my build and deleted the nvram folder and things behave much better!

Download here: [see first post]
Last edited by BPzeBanshee on Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Xyga
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Xyga »

x86 build maybe ? :oops:

Sorry don't bother, I'm just curious to try but I can wait until it's included in some official build.

Great news. :D
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

It's fine, I can certainly do 32-bit builds as well. I figured most 32-bit exclusive systems didn't really have the performance to run these, but I forget about the 4ghz Pentium 4s and the like. Gimme about 30 minutes. :D
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Xyga »

Woah thanks ! :D
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Yeah, once upon a time I was stuck on a 32-bit OS myself so I know that feel ;)

Links updated with 32-bit build in first post. I'll be removing links from my other posts to avoid confusion too.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Xyga »

Awesome, thanks again. Trying imediately. 8)

Yeah I'm stuck with an old 2GHz c2d laptop with x86 XP SP3.
Really need to buy something more modern soon.

EDIT: Okay I gave it a try, my pc's too weak and only Raystorm played at around 100% (sounds really funny indeed!) but it's really nice to see real progress. Hopefully we'll soon be able to play the 'real' G-Darius without having to chase for the massive pcb or the interlaced TM Gekan port. :)
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Keade
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Keade »

IIRC G-Darius had no music, I guess this is fixed or may be fixed with better emulation of that chip ?
(quite a lot of shmups on Taito G-Net, btw :))
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Xyga »

Keade wrote:IIRC G-Darius had no music, I guess this is fixed or may be fixed with better emulation of that chip ?
Well it's as BPzeBanshee wrote;
complete silence for some parts and then partial tinny/quiet music
Which is better than nothing at all, it's still preliminary so I guess we have to give'em time to study it.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by XoPachi »

Any specific reason the game doesn't play in Offline mode? Just link me to the post if it's been discussed.

I've tried it on both my laptop and desktop. Reinstalled on both. Went to the Steamapps folder to directly run the EXE. Ran the EXE as administrator. Tried it from Steam. Doesn't work. Period. Won't even try. Only game that does this. I HAVE to have Steam online to play the game. Makes no sense.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Xyga »

Wat ?
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by D-KMR »

XoPachi wrote:Any specific reason the game doesn't play in Offline mode? Just link me to the post if it's been discussed.

I've tried it on both my laptop and desktop. Reinstalled on both. Went to the Steamapps folder to directly run the EXE. Ran the EXE as administrator. Tried it from Steam. Doesn't work. Period. Won't even try. Only game that does this. I HAVE to have Steam online to play the game. Makes no sense.
Ikaruga thread?
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Updated links. Taito FX1 games got some improvements so Raystorm doesn't sound like shrieking church bells anymore (and is actually recognisable), and G-Darius seems less weird.

Seems the main thing left to get this emulation going from listening over a phone quality to OST quality is volume level improvements and the DSP component of the ZSG2, which I understand adds sound effects and filtering etc to just playing raw samples.
src/mame/audio/taito_zm.c wrote:Texas Instruments TMS57002DPHA DSP (QFP80)
* 12.5MHz pin 11 [25/2] (CLKIN)
* 32.5525kHz pin 5 and 76 (LRCKO) (LRCKI)
* 1.5625MHz pin 75 and 2 [25/16] (BCKI) (BCKO)

Newer games have a Panasonic MN1020819DA,
and a Zoom Corp. ZFX-2 DSP instead of the TMS57002.
It's all beyond me at the moment, I don't want to speculate on what it does or how easy/hard it'd be to implement, but it certainly exists in some form in MAME already, and this is leaps and bounds compared to 2010 when the first talk of a MN10200 core started happening. Excellent progress hap! :D
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Xyga »

Thanks for the updated builds.

Getting better indeed, there's definitely something like more or less identiable music in the background.
Also noticed it's more demanding now, speed down 10% or 15%, Raystorm no longer full-speed on my weak laptop.
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Updated builds once more for now. I think I might've missed a couple of minor things with the zsg2 stuff. This will probably be the last update I do unless something real significant happens like the DSP getting hooked up. but I imagine a public MAME build should be out somewhat soonish anyway.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Master O »

BPzeBanshee wrote:Updated builds once more for now. I think I might've missed a couple of minor things with the zsg2 stuff. This will probably be the last update I do unless something real significant happens like the DSP getting hooked up. but I imagine a public MAME build should be out somewhat soonish anyway.
At least someone at mamedev is finally getting around to implementing the music in G-Darius.

Mame's still on .152 though.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

I imagine they'll stay on 0.152 for a bit until Aaron Giles and co. is satisfied that there isn't too much broken stuff still in for the next release. Haze has been posting ex builds though.

I brought up the subject of the ZSG2 on Bannister Forums Shoutbox and RBelmont-senpai noticed me, what I quote below was edited for clarity. Suffice to say we're not going to see it sound much better for a while (i'm betting another 3 years).
BPzeBanshee: Oh I've been keeping a very close eye on it, perhaps too close. Just wondering if the DSP was something trivial (since it's already used for konamigx) or something I missed.
R. Belmont: the 57002 isn't actually processing audio in any driver, in GX it simply causes GX to have similar PC requirements to high-end PSX hardware games.
R. Belmont: I imagine people won't be pleased once it's combined with a high-end PSX hardware game :)
BPzeBanshee: So the 57002 doesn't actually do anything anyway? Aw, bummer. Guess we won't see full ZSG2 music till 2020 or something then. :P
R. Belmont: no, it actually runs, but MAME's architecture doesn't want CPUs to process audio. we do it in the Ensoniq drivers by means of some not-entirely-satisfy
ing hackery
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by trap15 »

BPzeBanshee wrote:I imagine they'll stay on 0.152 for a bit until Aaron Giles and co. is satisfied that there isn't too much broken stuff still in for the next release.
isn't too much broken stuff
MAME
:lol:
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Master O
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by Master O »

BPzeBanshee wrote:I imagine they'll stay on 0.152 for a bit until Aaron Giles and co. is satisfied that there isn't too much broken stuff still in for the next release. Haze has been posting ex builds though.

I brought up the subject of the ZSG2 on Bannister Forums Shoutbox and RBelmont-senpai noticed me, what I quote below was edited for clarity. Suffice to say we're not going to see it sound much better for a while (i'm betting another 3 years).
BPzeBanshee: Oh I've been keeping a very close eye on it, perhaps too close. Just wondering if the DSP was something trivial (since it's already used for konamigx) or something I missed.
R. Belmont: the 57002 isn't actually processing audio in any driver, in GX it simply causes GX to have similar PC requirements to high-end PSX hardware games.
R. Belmont: I imagine people won't be pleased once it's combined with a high-end PSX hardware game :)
BPzeBanshee: So the 57002 doesn't actually do anything anyway? Aw, bummer. Guess we won't see full ZSG2 music till 2020 or something then. :P
R. Belmont: no, it actually runs, but MAME's architecture doesn't want CPUs to process audio. we do it in the Ensoniq drivers by means of some not-entirely-satisfy
ing hackery
So, essentially, what R. Belmont is saying is that MAME's architecture involving the 57002 needs to be re-coded to get full functionality out of the 57002, i.e. proper music.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

More or less that and any other CPU that involves handling of audio, which most likely means core work, and in turn nobody's going to want to do it. R.Belmont might know how to hackjob it up to work but the impression I get is that he's more interested/experienced in the Apple stuff and winding out of brick walls like core work (and to be fair that's some significant stuff he's done with various Apple drivers).

Like I said, I don't think we'll see work done on this any time soon, and we know what MAMEdev are like when people get pushy about it.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by trap15 »

Some tidbits to show what's going on in MAMEland (these are quotes from devs themselves! names removed because I'm not that much of a dick), provided for your amusement:
i have sh2 nearly done [converted] locally
it works but sometimes i have an assert or another error when starting a driver
about 70% of the time it works ok, 30% fails
68k is fragile at best
can anyone confirm if bangbead (MAME) freezes after a cycle of attract mode?
Confirmed - broke 3/13-3/14 timeframe
now i notice that sometimes galaga runs and sometimes it goes into the sound test
this happened after the namco devices were converted to devcb2
Now do you all see why I go nuts when people say MAME is accurate or even good? :lol:
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BPzeBanshee
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Functional for many yet master of none is MAME.

Image

Hey trap15, since you hate MAMEdev and wont reveal your code about the NMK stuff how about a standalone NMK emulator that actually does the job perfect? I'm sure with your knowledge of where MAME fails you'd be able to get something going. :P
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by dunpeal2064 »

Oh god please yes. I would pay for that shit
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by trap15 »

It's been in progress for over a year now ;) You can hear audio output on my Youtube channel ;)

https://www.youtube.com/user/trap0xf Everything marked with (Captured from Hien), and most things in the Development playlist.
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Re: Preliminary ZSG2 support in MAME

Post by dunpeal2064 »

Fly to Live.... fuck, so good.

This sounds better than my PCB did. :lol:
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