G-Darius emulation troubles

[Pretas]

I'm using ZiNc GUI 1.9.5 (last updated in 2004!) to play G-Darius Ver. 2. Aside from some minor graphical glitches, it plays fine, but there is no music whatsoever. I haven't had this problem with other games in ZiNc like Strider 2.

It seems that ZiNc went open source after its last official release, is there a better version of it out there that has the music fixed, or is there a different ZN-series emulator that I should use now?

[IseeThings]

there is nothing capable of emulating the music right now

same for the Gnet based games.

It's a specific audio setup Taito went for using a CPU not used in any other known arcade / home hardware (at least that's emulated) and likewise an audio chip + DSP we've not seen anywhere else.

MAME has preliminary implementations of both but not enough to make any sounds.

[Nasirosuchus]

You are better off using the PlayStation emulator if the music is important.

[Bydobasher]

It plays so smoothly in MAME though. I have the PSX disc too, but last time I played the game I used MAME and listened to the OST at the same time. It wasn't totally synchronized with the onscreen action, but it wasn't far off either; it was great!

[Pretas]

You are better off using the PlayStation emulator if the music is important.

I own the PS1 disc. It has notoriously bad slowdown.

Short of buying the PCB, the best remaining option seems to be the Taito Legends 2 PS2 port, but it's missing the Ver. 2 update and I've heard that the collection has issues with input lag.

[Mortificator]

I haven't compared myself, but I remember other posters saying they had less slowdown on a PS1 emulator than on the actual console.

[Sinful]

I was gonna post about this sooner, but why can't G Darius & RayCrises/Storm get the samples fix, like how some Toaplan games got? We already got the tracks from the PS1 & Taito Legends versions, can it be done? And how hard is it to do? As I too would really love to play these 3 shooter in MAME too. Especially G Darius, one of thee best hori ever. From a series that's right up there with Gradius & R-Type.

And lol, I too once played the tune via Media Player while I was playing G Darius in MAME. That's how bad I want this. And now it seems others too, as I'm not alone to try that...

[BIL]

Short of buying the PCB, the best remaining option seems to be the Taito Legends 2 PS2 port, but it's missing the Ver. 2 update and I've heard that the collection has issues with input lag.

Taito Memories Gekan (NTSCJ PS2) contains ports, not emulation, of G-Darius and Raystorm. Neither of them appear to have noticeable input lag to me (I've 1CCd Raystorm without any issues). They do lack slowdown and are interlaced, so neither are "perfect" but they're otherwise very playable. The "Eternal Hits" reprint should be cheap even brand new.

According to Empire Interactive, Taito Legends 2 reuses the same ports. Unless EI fucked something up (quite possible given the Metal Black beam glitch on the same disc), there shouldn't be any input lag issues.

[Sinful]

Oh yeah, I now recall reading about them not being PCB emulations, due to trouble. Why X-Box don't have it and PS2 does have it cause G & Ray were previously released together on PS2 pack, hence why they're on... wait. If it was released before on PS2, is that version none-interlaced then & better in other ways? EDIT - wait, were they even released on PS2 before? Or just PC & they PC ports?

And is anyone capable of adding the music to G Darius & RayCrises/Storm via MAME samples a la some Toaplan games?

[BIL]

If it was released before on PS2, is that version none-interlaced then & better in other ways? EDIT - wait, were they even released on PS2 before?

No, the ports in Taito Memories Gekan are interlaced and lack PCB slowdown, exactly like they are in the later Taito Legends 2. I only own Gekan, so I can't say if their controls were messed up somehow for Legends, but I can confirm the graphical and speed issues are the same on both discs.

And no, both ports were coded specifically for Taito Memories Gekan, since Taito couldn't get the PS2 to emulate their FX1-B arcade hardware acceptably.

[BPzeBanshee]

And is anyone capable of adding the music to G Darius & RayCrises/Storm via MAME samples a la some Toaplan games?

I attempted to look into getting music samples going in XII Stag once (which runs on the G-NET) after updating the ThunderMAME sample hacks to put into Shmupmame v4.2. I don't claim to be an expert but this is how I understand it, someone who knows better feel free to correct.

The reason the sample hacking on the Toaplan games are possible is because the required components are all more or less emulated, it's just the sound MCU has no dump (not a trivial thing to get, someone else can explain this better but it HAS been done before). The signals to play the music are there coming from one of the emulated chips, it's just nothing's receiving and making the response, so playing the correct samples is a simple matter of intercepting the signals and doing something with it, like someone calling "Play this song now" or "stop all tracks".

From what I can tell, G-NET and the Taito games have none of this. Nothing sending, nothing receiving. Until the part that sends what track to play is put in is emulated sample-based emulation will not happen.

[Sinful]

@BIL - thanks for correcting me. But wow, Taito actually went through the trouble of porting them two games just for a compilation that has so many high profile games to begin with?! (ie. didn't stop the X-Box port without them) That's pretty cool of them, even if it's not Arcade perfect or without the other version option. As I assume this kinda of effort to be a rare thing, no?

Oh, and you can use an emulator for PS2 games (for this pack you have to turn something on to remove tearing due to the interlaced resolution. And for my PC only Darius II so far is super slow) to check up on things that you may want answered before, say, for a purchase or something? Next time I'm emulating them games I'll check to see if they're indeed the same. My money's on it, but some glitches could of been introduced like that Metal Black one?... In which case I may not notice anything? (Would of took me awhile to figure that out until someone said exactly what it was)

*snip*

So that's why such popular games don't have this fix. Was really scratching my head there for awhile? Thanks for the perfect laymans explaination. As I love knowing all this stuff. ... Well, guess nothing left to do but wait on MAME dev team... still plenty of playable shmups, I guess?... I want more!

[BIL]

@BIL - thanks for correcting me. But wow, Taito actually went through the trouble of porting them two games just for a compilation that has so many high profile games to begin with?! (ie. didn't stop the X-Box port without them) That's pretty cool of them, even if it's not Arcade perfect or without the other version option. As I assume this kinda of effort to be a rare thing, no?

Yeah - although they're not M2 super deluxe quality, those two ports are why I have Gekan (second volume) but not Joukan (first), which allegedly has emulation issues in games I'd want like Elevator Action Returns (EAR, Metal Black and Darius Gaiden all have excellent Saturn ports anyway). It's a shame Taito didn't take the opportunity for a better Raycrisis port in the Memories II set, but oh well.

OTOH, I am not regret getting both volumes of Taito Memories II. TM2 Joukan's emulations of Rayforce and Fighting Hawk both seem dead-on, interlacing aside, and unlike the first Memories duo, all vertical games feature full tate. TM2 Gekan has arcade Thunder Fox (annihilates the sluggish, chopped-down MD conversion) and Bubble Memories, both again seemingly without issues. They're pretty nice discs, and relatively cheap too if you get the Eternal Hits budget reprints.

On the subject of possible emulated G-Darius music workarounds... I remember long ago loading up Foobar with the arcade songs on "loop track" in stage/boss/stage order, then using Joy2Key to make my L1 and R1 "prev" and "next" buttons. Worked... better than you might think. Especially once things started heating up around stage 2 and attention shifted away from BGM! Admittedly not as good as with Raystorm and its set stage order though. "DADA" should accompany only very specific zones!

>CATHARSIS st4
>METAPHAR boss2
>LUMINESCENCE st5
>METAPHAR boss2
>TOXOPLASMA st6
>MOLECULAR CLOCK boss3
>SLAUGHTER HOUR st7

Ahh, VGM geekery.

[Xyga]

Too bad the '240 patch' doesn't work on the Taito Memories discs.

[BIL]

Indeed. >_< Even with the hack around, it's annoying that so many PS2 discs don't natively do 240p. It's not like only the cream of the PS2 arcade conversion crop like M2 and Arika went to the trouble, either... even the bargain basement Double Shienryu pack includes 240p for the first game.

[Sinful]

On the subject of possible emulated G-Darius music workarounds... I remember long ago loading up Foobar with the arcade songs on "loop track" in stage/boss/stage order, then using Joy2Key to make my L1 and R1 "prev" and "next" buttons. Worked... better than you might think. Especially once things started heating up around stage 2 and attention shifted away from BGM! Admittedly not as good as with Raystorm and its set stage order though. "DADA" should accompany only very specific zones!

>CATHARSIS st4
>METAPHAR boss2
>LUMINESCENCE st5
>METAPHAR boss2
>TOXOPLASMA st6
>MOLECULAR CLOCK boss3
>SLAUGHTER HOUR st7

Ahh, VGM geekery.

BIL, you a freakin genius! VGM geekery rules! And why in the heck didn't this clue in to me already either? Since I already use X-Padder for shorcuts on my gamepad/arcade stick to begin with? Plus coming up with weird solutions for anything with anything is sorta my thing too? (Checked media player and indeed it hav keyboard shorcuts, so X-Padder I already use is fine enough too. Gonna have a setup saved as "Taito MAME" for this. No need for Joy2Pad yet... by the way, does it do same thing as X-Padder too plus more?)


... Hey, anyone know the order of tunes for in game Fire Mustang via MAME? There's a hack/bootleg with Raiden tunes, but it's just not the same... Man, maybe you should start a topic to spread the word on this? It really is freakin' brilliant.