11th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Discussion Thread

[EmperorIng]

So last year, only one horizontal made it in the top 25. Think this year will shake things up? Akai Katana? Will Darius Feel the Love? I've often wondered why horizontals seem to be left in the lurch on this site. I'm looking at my list, and quite a few horis made it in as opposed to my last ballot. More Gradius, some Thunderforce, Sexy Parodius, some Salamander, plus the usual Darius Suspects.

One big change over last year is that last year, I sort of tried to make a list of what I thought the 25 "best" shmups were, which meant adding games I sort of recognized as "great" without necessarily liking (I don't 'get' Battle Garegga, at least not yet). My current ballot will be more honest: just my 25 all-time favorite shmups. Why muddy up the proceedings?

[Mero]

Yeah, it shouldn't be the definitive best 25 ever made, but the best 25 that you like the best.

[chempop]

But isn't it cool to vote for games other people like? I voted for all Touhou even though I've never played them before.
I just want to fit it

[royalfan84]

So far it looks like Akai Katana will finish fairly high this year in the top 25. Gradius V also seems to be making a comeback...just guessing I'd say it's in the top 20 as of now. Deathsmiles and Darius Gaiden also seem to be getting a lot of votes; they may make it also. 11 of my top 25 are horizontals; I am a bit perplexed looking at last years top 25...a lot Cave verts....hope it's a little more diverse this year...that being said it looks like 4 DDP games will be in the top 15 or 20.

Oh and Einhander needs love!

[professor ganson]

looks like Akai Katana will finish fairly high this year in the top 25

That's super surprising to me. Do we require that voters have played 100+ shmups? That seems to me a bare minimum to be qualified, and I thought that was an explicit requirement at one point.

[royalfan84]

The requirement is at least half of the best of all time+honorabe mention list. 51 I think. I'm not sure what you are insinuating at this point...my opinion is this is a niche genre that could use all of the support and love and support it gets. Elitism, laziness, and PIRACY and the main reasons it needs support. So what exactly are you insinuating?

[R-Gray 1]

Im not sure which game would be my 25th game...is between a Touhou game, a snes game or darius gaiden....

And i definitely going to give love to Einhänder is in my Top 5.....
ofc im going to vote for some gradius, Rtypes, my avatar, 2 nes games , 2 snes games...psikyo game, treasure games, dreamcast games.....
I never played R-type final and Gradius IV

[professor ganson]

The implicit point in my post above is that Akai Katana doesn't warrant a place on a top 25 all-time best shmups list. I thought that would be obvious to those who've played hundreds of shmups. I mean, I consider myself an absolute amateur and I've played hundreds myself. Of course, I'm an old guy. To my mind it's absurd to list Akai Katana when it's not even in the top 25 for the past 20 years. And then everyone knows that the golden age of shmups was before that.

[royalfan84]

Im not sure which game would be my 25th game...is between a Touhou game, a snes game or darius gaiden....

And i definitely going to give love to Einhänder is in my Top 5.....
ofc im going to vote for some gradius, Rtypes, my avatar, 2 nes games , 2 snes games...psikyo game, treasure games, dreamcast games.....
I never played R-type final and Gradius IV

Im not sure which game would be my 25th game...is between a Touhou game, a snes game or darius gaiden....

And i definitely going to give love to Einhänder is in my Top 5.....
ofc im going to vote for some gradius, Rtypes, my avatar, 2 nes games , 2 snes games...psikyo game, treasure games, dreamcast games.....
I never played R-type final and Gradius IV

Props to you! But your vote perplexes me...you sure yu are elite enough to vote? (Sarcasm)

[R-Gray 1]

Im not sure which game would be my 25th game...is between a Touhou game, a snes game or darius gaiden....

And i definitely going to give love to Einhänder is in my Top 5.....
ofc im going to vote for some gradius, Rtypes, my avatar, 2 nes games , 2 snes games...psikyo game, treasure games, dreamcast games.....
I never played R-type final and Gradius IV

Im not sure which game would be my 25th game...is between a Touhou game, a snes game or darius gaiden....

And i definitely going to give love to Einhänder is in my Top 5.....
ofc im going to vote for some gradius, Rtypes, my avatar, 2 nes games , 2 snes games...psikyo game, treasure games, dreamcast games.....
I never played R-type final and Gradius IV

Props to you! But your vote perplexes me...you sure yu are elite enough to vote? (Sarcasm)

yes because i saw some rankings few years ago when i voted ( i guess was the 9th top25) and after i saw that tops .......lots of touhous..lots of cavess....mehhhh.....

[royalfan84]

The implicit point in my post above is that Akai Katana doesn't warrant a place on a top 25 all-time best shmups list. I thought that would be obvious to those who've played hundreds of shmups. I mean, I consider myself an absolute amateur and I've played hundreds myself. Of course, I'm an old guy. To my mind it's absurd to list Akai Katana when it's not even in the top 25 for the past 20 years. And then everyone knows that the golden age of shmups was before that.

So we should list only games in the top 25 previously? I don't see it's absurd...if popular opinion likes it enough....the golden age of shmups(that's opinion, certainly debatable even to myself.)
Listen, I love shmups=you love shmups. Why is their need to think your elite superior knowledge is better than mine? I'm not really happy that Radiant Silvergun was 14 last year yet I don't degrade those who don't dig it. When you play the "elitist more experience I know what is best" card you alienate and detest. I am aware some on this site welcome that; the majority do not. Many like spadgy, kai, and acsereph have been welcoming.

I want the interest in the genre to grow for good. The way you worded your argument is not the kind of attitude I use welcoming interested or furtherinng logical discussion.

Like I said; we both love the genre; we can get along and disagree. But a false sense of elitism won't do it.

[R-Gray 1]

this forum needs a Top of retro shmups

[royalfan84]

this forum needs a Top of retro shmups

Dude you are so right. I was thinking that just the other day. But where would the cut-off be?

[professor ganson]

royalfan, I'm on board with the let's-all-get-along idea. But if I can take years of sneers for championing Xevious, I'm sure you can handle an off-the-cuff remark about Akai Katana, which received a pretty mediocre reception here at shmups when it came out.

Talk of a golden age of shmups isn't my invention: http://shmup.wikia.com/wiki/Golden_Age

Shmups is an arcade-centered genre, and arcades have been on hard times since the early-to-mid 90s. Traditionally this board has favored 90s shmups most and 80s shmups are more of an afterthought. I think that's unfortunate but understandable. There is progress afterall. But the idea that top 25 shmups are being generated in the 2010s is really curious to me. This is a time when you have just a handful of shmups a year. What are the chances that they are genuinely on a par with the classic games from a time when the best game programmers were devoted to shmups? Hey, I like 2000-something Cave shmups as much as the next guy, but the idea that fourth-tier Cave shmups are standout titles worthy of top 25 status-- that's truly surprising to me.

[royalfan84]

royalfan, I'm on board with the let's-all-get-along idea. But if I can take years of sneers for championing Xevious, I'm sure you can handle an off-the-cuff remark about Akai Katana, which received a pretty mediocre reception here at shmups when it came out.

Talk of a golden age of shmups isn't my invention: http://shmup.wikia.com/wiki/Golden_Age

Shmups is an arcade-centered genre, and arcades have been on hard times since the early-to-mid 90s. Traditionally this board has favored 90s shmups most and 80s shmups are more of an afterthought. I think that's unfortunate but understandable. There is progress afterall. But the idea that top 25 shmups are being generated in the 2010s is really curious to me. This is a time when you have just a handful of shmups a year. What are the chances that they are genuinely on a par with the classic games from a time when the best game programmers were devoted to shmups? Hey, I like 2000-something Cave shmups as much as the next guy, but the idea that fourth-tier Cave shmups are standout titles worthy of top 25 status-- that's truly surprising to me.

See...on many points I totally agree with you..I don't think older school shmups get enough credit but at least on this forum most games of any era at least get a shout-out. I'm not sure which era is best to me; but I was born in the mid-80's and shmup arcades are limited to none influence for me...mostly consoles.

That being said I believe I've played enough cave titles to know that Cave gets a little bit too much love for my taste...see we agree on many things...

[professor ganson]

I really didn't mean to be unsupportive-- very happy to see so many new faces around here.

[chempop]

looks like Akai Katana will finish fairly high this year in the top 25

That's super surprising to me. Do we require that voters have played 100+ shmups? That seems to me a bare minimum to be qualified, and I thought that was an explicit requirement at one point.

Akai Katana made my list. It compelled me to 1CC all three modes with more than one character within a month of buying it.

Incredible music - some of the best of cave imho
Wild concepts - ninja's summoning battleships! W00T
Crazy reflect system - which I'm a total sucker for (see galuda1+2, GW1+2, MM)
3 WORTHWHILE MODES - very uncommon

[professor ganson]

Fair enough. Maybe a shmup from the last three years wins not just because it's from the last three years. And Cave. I like how chempop is prepared with shareable reasons. That's a win in itself.

[Jonst]

Totally agree with chempop.akai katana made my list for exactly the same reasons,although it took me a bit longer than a month to clear all 3 modes! I'm pretty happy it's finally getting some love!

[Illyrian]

I always find it funny when people complain about the number of Cave games, Yagawa games and Touhou games in the list.

Sorry if this is breaking news to anyone but Cave shmups and Touhou are the two best types of shmup. That is why they are so popular and dominate the lists so much. They are the highest quality.

[Squire Grooktook]

Sorry if this is breaking news to anyone but Qute shmups and Touhou are the two best types of shmup.

I think I fixed this post.

[Kollision]

Sorry if this is breaking news to anyone but Taito shmups and Takumi are the two best types of shmup.

I think I fixed this post.

Re-fixed.

[Illyrian]

DOJ BALL isn't cute, it is all grimy and washed out and it is one of my favourite Cave games.

Try again.

And frankly I don't judge things just by appearance but by how much I personally enjoy them.

[professor ganson]

I always find it funny when people complain about the number of Cave games

That's a completely different discussion, one we've had many times before. This discussion is about a specific Cave game, but it's being a Cave game isn't really so relevant to the discussion. I was just surprised that a game from the 2010s that got a luke-warm reception in the shmups community was going to make the top 25. This really is surprising to me for the reason I have above:

Shmups is an arcade-centered genre, and arcades have been on hard times since the early-to-mid 90s. Traditionally this board has favored 90s shmups most and 80s shmups are more of an afterthought. I think that's unfortunate but understandable. There is progress afterall. But the idea that top 25 shmups are being generated in the 2010s is really curious to me. This is a time when you have just a handful of shmups a year. What are the chances that they are genuinely on a par with the classic games from a time when the best game programmers were devoted to shmups? Hey, I like 2000-something Cave shmups as much as the next guy, but the idea that fourth-tier Cave shmups are standout titles worthy of top 25 status-- that's truly surprising to me.

Chempop's response to my argument is a good one. I'm perfectly happy to learn that there's reason to revisit Akai Katana.

[Erppo]

What are the chances that they are genuinely on a par with the classic games from a time when the best game programmers were devoted to shmups?

Best programming has nothing to do with game design.

[professor ganson]

right, but by "game programmers" I meant game designers/programmers.

[Kollision]

After seeing RNGmaster's list I just found out I was voting wrong for all these years!

[R-Gray 1]

I always find it funny when people complain about the number of Cave games, Yagawa games and Touhou games in the list.

Sorry if this is breaking news to anyone but Cave shmups and Touhou are the two best types of shmup. That is why they are so popular and dominate the lists so much. They are the highest quality.

by the way my post was in sarcastic mode on because the question of royalfan84
about if i was qualified to vote here.

I think ppl who played lots of Shmups and enjoyed a lot them are clearly qualified to vote.
First of all they are just videogames.

and the other guys answer u .....everybody has their own favourite shmups companies.

[Tyranix95]

The vote thead has stalled at 66 (posts).

Come on, at least make it to 69.

[EmperorIng]

The vote thead has stalled at 66 (posts).

Come on, at least make it to 69.

Still making my vote. Gotta see which Gradius games I like the best!