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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:51 pm 


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@HydrogLox

No, though I'll prob buy it too, for a bit of xtra Triangle love.

Btw, in the thread you linked, that poster Ian/Pyongyang picked up... Shit son that is BOSS! And signed too, lucky bastard ;-)
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:47 pm 


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Could somebody here confirm the basic story of Triangle Service as a company (seems an appropriate question for this thread, because I'm confused!).

Am I right that Oriental Soft, having tasked Toshiaki Fujino and colleagues with making G-Stream G2020, allegedly failed to fully pay the staff (or just Fujino), prompting a breakaway team to form Triangle Service?

And what is the relationship with the team that made the Raiden Fighters trilogy? Is there an actually staff cross-over?
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:14 pm 


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Yes, and yes.

The G-Stream team was "funded" by Oriental Soft who failed to fulfill their role and didn't pay Fujino (and maybe others on the team?) for many months of work. After he "finished" that work, he made XIISTAG with the same team on their own dime.

The pixel artist for G-Stream and XIISTAG was the same pixel artist for the Raiden Fighters series. The musician for all Triangle Service games (and G-Stream) is Hiroshi Tanabe (NAOTO). The programmer and game designer for all Triangle Service games (and G-Stream), and the artist for all Triangle Service games aside from XIISTAG, is Toshiaki Fujino.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:58 pm 


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Really talented guy to be doing all of this work by himself. That Raiden Fighters/2D Triange Service artist has impeccable detail, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:27 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
Yes, and yes.


Thanks for all that mate. I knew yourself or BPzeBanshee would come up with the goods on this front!
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:15 pm 



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Play-Asia.com Shooting Love Collection "article".

IMPORT SPOTLIGHTS: Six different SHMUPS titles in one - Shooting Love Collection!


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:50 am 


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spadgy wrote:
So, to clarify BPzeBanshee's post with a couple of new details thrown in from the subsequent posts, Triangle Service's games are:

- Project Moon (Doujin, 199X)
- G-Stream G2020 (PCB, 2002)
- XIIStag (PCB, 2002. Ports to PS2 and Pocket PC. Later in compilations)
- Trizeal (PCB, 2004. Ports to PS2, DC and strange mobile phones. Later in compilations)
- Shooting Love 2007 (Exzeal (a Trizeal sequel) and minigame comp Shmups Skill Test) (PCB, 2007)
- Shooting Love 200X (Exzeal, Shmups Skill Test, Trizeal Remix and Minus Zero (a game in it's own right)) (360, 2009)
- Ge-Sen Love (Four-player games, Pengo and shmup CombatZeal) (PCB, 2012 or 2013)
- Shooting Love 10th Anniversary (DeltaZeal (G-Stream G2020 port) and XIIZeal (XII Stag Pocket PC port)) (360, 2013)
- Shooting Love Collection (bundles 10th Anniversary and Shooting Love 200X) (360, 2013 TBC)

Sorry for the necro but this post is extremely useful as I was also pretty damn lost with what each Trinagle Service release included. So to complete that list, Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! which came this year is just a port of the arcade version? Or does it include any of the other games? Finally, the only region-free games in this list are Shooting Love Collection and Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! correct?
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:55 am 


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Oniros wrote:
So to complete that list, Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! which came this year is just a port of the arcade version? Or does it include any of the other games?

It includes an alternate version of Shmups Skill Test, which was originally part of Shooting Love 200X. That was already in the arcade version of Ge-sen Love, though.
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Finally, the only region-free games in this list are Shooting Love Collection and Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! correct?

10th Anniversary and Ge-sen Love are region free. Shooting Love 200X is locked.

If you're interested in getting into Triangle Service's games, I'd wait until Shooting Love Trilogy is released on Xbox One, so you can have their entire library accessible on a single disc (all XONE games are region free). 200X also contains the definitive version of Trizeal.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:29 am 


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Pretas wrote:
Oniros wrote:
So to complete that list, Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! which came this year is just a port of the arcade version? Or does it include any of the other games?

It includes an alternate version of Shmups Skill Test, which was originally part of Shooting Love 200X. That was already in the arcade version of Ge-sen Love, though.
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Finally, the only region-free games in this list are Shooting Love Collection and Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! correct?

10th Anniversary and Ge-sen Love are region free. Shooting Love 200X is locked.

If you're interested in getting into Triangle Service's games, I'd wait until Shooting Love Trilogy is released on Xbox One, so you can have their entire library accessible on a single disc (all XONE games are region free). 200X also contains the definitive version of Trizeal.

So in the collection I'm basically getting a region-free and a region-locked game? For me it's not a biggie since I recently got a NTSC-J X360. :) Also, do we know for certain that Trilogy will include 200X, 10th Anniversary, and Ge-Sen? Or is it a conclusion we're drawing due to the name of the game?
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:22 am 



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Oniros wrote:
So in the collection I'm basically getting a region-free and a region-locked game?

Correct. (Also the collection does not include the Exzeal Superplay DVD that is included in 200X - it has a CD instead)

Oniros wrote:
Also, do we know for certain that Trilogy will include 200X, 10th Anniversary, and Ge-Sen? Or is it a conclusion we're drawing due to the name of the game?

"Shooting Love. Trilogy" - My guess: Any three of ΔZEΔL, XIIZEΔL, TRIZEΔL, EXZEΔL. I'd give both Trizeal and Exzeal higher odds as they were region-locked for the Xbox 360 and both Deltazeal and Exzeal have only been released once on a console. So for example: "Shooting Love. Trilogy: ΔZEΔL, TRIZEΔL, EXZEΔL".


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:46 pm 


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There's no reason to assume that Shooting Love Trilogy won't include every game TS released on the 360 (which encompasses three retail releases). Why would they split it up into such a meager package, especially on a next-gen system?
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:20 pm 



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Pretas wrote:
Why would they split it up into such a meager package, especially on a next-gen system?

Resource, time and financial constraints.

Also it isn't meager compared to "Shooting Love, 200X" or "Shooting Love. 10th Anniversary" which both contained "only" two full games (especially if you view 200X as a Trizeal + "Shooting Love. 2007" combo - I don't think anybody counts "Minus Zero").

Presumably to save cost Toshiaki Fujino does the brunt of the work on his games by himself and "Shooting Love. Trilogy" is supposed to be on sale before the end of 2015. Porting the entire Xbox 360 catalog would require reworking:
  • ΔZEΔL
  • XIIZEΔL
  • TRIZEΔL
  • EXZEΔL
  • COMBΔTZEΔL
  • Shmups skill test
  • Action skill test
I don't know how easy it is to port from the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One but that looks like a shitload of work for one person by the end of 2015. So in my opinion assuming that "Shooting Love. Trilogy" will contain that entire list is wishful thinking. Looking at the history:

  • 2005-12-10 Xbox 360 launch in Japan
  • 2007-07-27 Shooting Love 2007 Sega Naomi release
  • 2009-02-19 Shooting Love, 200X Xbox 360 release (2 x Sega Naomi to Xbox 360 port)
  • 2012-09-20 Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo Sega ALL.Net P-ras MULTI release (Sega RingEdge 2)
  • 2013-05-30 Shooting Love, Shooting Love. 10-Shuunen: XIIZeal & DeltaZeal Xbox 360 release (1 x Hyperstone E1-32XT to Xbox 360 port, 1 x Taito G-Net (or PC) to Xbox 360 port)
  • 2014-04-24 Ga-Sen Love Plus Pengo! Xbox 360 release (Sega RingEdge 2 to Xbox 360 port)

Now he might have done some other work to make ends meet but that timeline establishes his basic working "velocity". It looks like it takes him about 9 months to port a single "full" game. Based on the work he has accomplished over the last 5+ years I think porting the entire Xbox 360 library by the end of 2015 is overly optimistic.

Now if I were to indulge in wishful thinking in this context - I would wish that he would try to break away from a niche platform in his domestic market:
  • For his type of games he would realize that on an 8th generation console he has plenty of headroom to sacrifice some performance to abstraction.
  • He would pick three of his games that are the most similar in terms of game play (this is where I'm getting the ΔZEΔL, TRIZEΔL, EXZEΔL trilogy from).
  • He would have a stack of notes that capture the game play mechanics and presentation of these three games and outline their commonalities and variations in abstract terms.
  • He picks up a PS4 dev kit on the sly to see how different it is from the Xbox One dev kit.
  • He develops a framework that can work on either platform and supports all the features needed for the three games.
  • He then rapidly builds the "Shooting Love. Trilogy" games on the framework for the Xbox One release.
  • Once he is outside of his contractual constraints (a year later?) he releases "Shooting Love. Trilogy" on the PS4, potentially with enhancements, extra stages or a "Bonus" game.


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:33 pm 


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You're really, really overthinking this. With the Xbox One's PC architecture and powerful specs, it would be a relatively trivial matter for Fujino to dump the complete 360 Triangle Service library onto the system. Furthermore, the game would have zero chance of selling, even to his established fans and followers, if it didn't deliver on quantity.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:05 pm 


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Pretas wrote:
Furthermore, the game would have zero chance of selling, even to his established fans and followers, if it didn't deliver on quantity.

Unfortunately that didn't stop Milestone/Klon/Sakura Flamingo/Whoever The Heck they Are Now from skimping on their recently-released compilation; this doesn't mean Triangle will necessarily take the same route, of course, but the consideration you cite, reasonable as it is, certainly doesn't seem absolute even in this distant corner of the gaming realm.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:46 am 



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Pretas wrote:
It would be a relatively trivial matter for Fujino to dump the complete 360 Triangle Service library onto the system.

Would it? There seems to be precious little information on how difficult a Xbox 360 to Xbox One port would be. 343 Industries should know because of the Master Chief Collection but they seem to be pretty quiet on the matter. In most other scenarios Xbox 360 and Xbox One versions of games are developed in parallel by separate teams - no porting one way or the other.

Pretas wrote:
Furthermore, the game would have zero chance of selling, even to his established fans and followers, if it didn't deliver on quantity.

Frankly I don't think that the "quantity" will have any significant impact on the sales numbers. Likely most Japanese Xbox One owners will also own a Xbox 360 and all these games exist on the Xbox 360 anyway. Trading up to the next generation platform and ditching the old one is a mass market consumer trait - game enthusiasts will tend to hold on to the old platform, even if it gets buried in the back of the closet - the ported version may be purchased to avoid having to go to the back of the closet.

The tragedy here is that Microsoft's incentives is luring these small developers into a sales territory where there is little to no potential of finding new customers because the platform isn't accepted by the domestic game-playing public at large. Most likely Toshiaki Fujino is just doing a brute force port of his three favorite games in order to gain familiarity with the Xbox One development environment - the problem is that when he is done, his new skills will be limited to the Xbox One which has an extremely limited market in Japan.

BulletMagnet wrote:
Unfortunately that didn't stop Milestone/Klon/Sakura Flamingo/Whoever The Heck they Are Now from skimping on their recently-released compilation.

I also think that these wholesale compilations tend to occur at the end of a console's lifecycle when developers are most comfortable with the platform. Milestone's Radirgy Noa Massive (2010-10-28) release was a single game and it wasn't an entirely new game at that. Raiden Fighters Aces is a collection of three games that happened earlier in the console's lifecycle (2008-03-27). Maybe it is more difficult to port games from Seibu SPI (80386DX) to Xbox 360 than from Xbox 360 to Xbox One but I'd imagine they had more than one guy doing it at Gulti.

While googling for items on "ease of porting to Xbox One" I ran into these tidbits:
Microsoft Quietly Region-Locks Digital Xbox One Games And DLC – Error Code”0x87de07d1″ Reported
China's Xbox One and games will be totally region locked.
So once the Xbox One has a "sufficient installbase" the region barriers will go up? I hope the Moss, Qute and Triangle Service products will have a physical release (though the discs could still have a region ID that could be blocked by the system software after the fact).


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:32 pm 


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So they just released a new game. Not a shmup, more like a lightgun/gyroscope shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4HtSgtY9Io

http://store.steampowered.com/app/752770/GyroShooter/
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:18 pm 


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My god, that's not something I would want to play in public.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:10 pm 


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Judging by video, this is some activity you can propose to boss and colleauges during enkai / work party :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:09 pm 


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I like the idea - Looks like something that'd work well with a VR headset setup. Nintendo had something like this on the 3DS as part of the default software a while ago from memory but it didn't seem to work very well when I tried it.
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