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 Post subject: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:26 am 


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So this has been bugging me for a while. A long time ago I picked up a random PS2 shmup called XII Stag for 100 yen. That was my introduction to Triangle Service and I loved it. I started looking into their other games but have found all the weird renaming and stuff very confusing. Like for example I got 10th anniversary for 360, which has Tri Zeal and XII Zeal, but XII Zeal is really just XII Stag.

I just recently learned of 200x but I'm not really sure what's on it, and I've also seen shooting love stuff on PS2, and some triangle service DC games. Problem is I don't really know what's what and what I actually need to buy. I don't really want to buy stuff that I already have a different port of, but I do love their games and crave more.

So the request: Can anyone post here a detailed List of Triangle Service's games and ports, and explain what each one is and how they differ from each other? I know its kind of a big request but if someone has time I'll be your bff.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:52 am 


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Project Moon: 1990-something
In a nutshell: Sharp X68k doujin made by the sole official member of Triangle Service, Toshiaki Fujino. Features a ship that can at will split off into parts, reducing hitbox size.

Wasn't widely distributed (if at all) until its inclusion in a superplay DVD included with one of the games IIRC.

G-Stream G2020: 2002
Originally copyrighted under "Oriental Soft Japan" this is AFAIK Triangle Service's first proper arcade game. Your Trizeal mechanics (fast medal drops, multiple weapons at once, dynamic stages etc) began here. Renowned for being rare, as well as the boards melting down if you let it run long enough due to poor build, poor sound quality hampering awesome music: general concensus is that this was rushed due to a dispute with Oriental Soft (Korea) and there are multiple builds of this around the place. Bit mysterious.

Was not ported or mentioned by Fujino pretty much ever until Shooting Love 10th Anniversary where it was fixed up and rebranded as DeltaZeal.

XII Stag: 2002
First arcade game under the Triangle Service name, on G-NET hardware. Your wobble shot mechanics seen in some of the later titles started here. More consistent in some areas than G-Stream G2020. Last 2D shmup.

Was ported several times: to the PS2, and then to Windows Phone and in Shooting Love 10th Anniversary (rebranded as XIIZeal). PS2 version sfx is slightly different in pitch and looks parallel to the arcade version, but has no emulated slowdown. XIIZeal changed the boss warnings, and the 360 port has emulated slowdown.

Trizeal: 2004?
Trizeal is the first 3D-graphical shmup done by Triangle Service. Mechanics-wise it inherits a lot from G-Stream G2020, but with some alterations: bomb is different, and you actually can switch weapons at will focusing your primary power of sorts onto one specific weapon type.

Shooting Love 2007
This one I'm a little shaky with. As I understand it originally came out in 2007 (duh) as Shooting Love 2007, and was then brought to the 360 as Shooting Love 200X. The 360 port features Trizeal Remix, Shmup Skills Test (which I think was in the original release too), Minus Zero and a bunch of other minigames.

Shooting Love 10th Anniversary: 2013
Actually a bit more than 10 years, but as already covered, contains an updated G-Stream G2020 (as DeltaZeal) and XII Stag (as XIIZeal). AFAIK no extra games, but soundtrack is awesome.

____________

Hope that helped a bit. I'm not that familiar with Shooting Love 2007 but a few other folks here are: any questions about G-Stream and XII Stag in particular trap15 and I did a bit of research into so we know heaps in that area.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:59 am 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
Shooting Love 2007

If memory serves this one has Trizeal Remix, Exzeal, Minus Zero and Shooting Skill Test.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:00 am 


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So would it be safe to say that between Shooting Love 200X and Shooting Love 10th anniversary you are covered for Triangle Service games? And there are actually only 3 main games that they have produced: G Stream 2020, XII Stag, and Trizeal?

Major thanks by the way that really clears a lot of things up. Definitely going to try and get 200x now, because I love both of the 10th anniversary games.

What is Exzeal?
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:48 am 


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Shooting Love 2007 contains only ExZeal and Shmups Skill Test. 200X has both of these, as well as Trizeal Remix and a handful of experimental minigames.

You could call ExZeal the sequel to Trizeal, since they're both in 3D and have similar graphics. I haven't played it myself, but the central mechanic seems to be wobbling around quickly to charge up your shot. It's definitely a full-fledged shooter and not a minigame, even if it was never released standalone.

There's also Ge-Sen Love, which is currently only available in arcades and seems it will stay that way. I believe it contains a non-shooting 4 player minigame collection (can't remember the name), CombatZeal, and a 16:9 version of Sega's classic arcade game Pengo programmed by TS. Details on CombatZeal are sketchy, but it has 2D graphics and seems to be a retro-styled shooter.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:22 am 


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Pretas wrote:

There's also Ge-Sen Love, which is currently only available in arcades and seems it will stay that way. I believe it contains a non-shooting 4 player minigame collection (can't remember the name), CombatZeal, and a 16:9 version of Sega's classic arcade game Pengo programmed by TS. Details on CombatZeal are sketchy, but it has 2D graphics and seems to be a retro-styled shooter.


It's CombatZeal, Skill eximanination, Action Skill Test (presumably the Power Rangers fighting thing) and Pengo!

Though the 4 player aspect was the selling point it seems like they can all be played in single player too, given that they've all had scores in Arcadia.

EDIT: Here's a single player CombatZeal vid: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19471458?ref=search_key_video


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:59 pm 


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And to clarify a small error in the first post, 10th Anniversary features XIIZeal (seemingly a port of the Pocket PC XIIStag) and DeltaZeal (the G-Stream G2020 port). (So not XIIZeal and TriZeal as ACSeraph mentioned)

BulletMagnet wrote:
BPzeBanshee wrote:
Shooting Love 2007

If memory serves this one has Trizeal Remix, Exzeal, Minus Zero and Shooting Skill Test.


That's what's on the 360 200X disk, yes.

And now, of course, there's the newly revealed Shooting Love Collection, which bundles 10th Anniversary and Shooting Love 200X.

So, to clarify BPzeBanshee's post with a couple of new details thrown in from the subsequent posts, Triangle Service's games are:

- Project Moon (Doujin, 199X)
- G-Stream G2020 (PCB, 2002)
- XIIStag (PCB, 2002. Ports to PS2 and Pocket PC. Later in compilations)
- Trizeal (PCB, 2004. Ports to PS2, DC and strange mobile phones. Later in compilations)
- Shooting Love 2007 (Exzeal (a Trizeal sequel) and minigame comp Shmups Skill Test) (PCB, 2007)
- Shooting Love 200X (Exzeal, Shmups Skill Test, Trizeal Remix and Minus Zero (a game in it's own right)) (360, 2009)
- Ge-Sen Love (Four-player games, Pengo and shmup CombatZeal) (PCB, 2012 or 2013)
- Shooting Love 10th Anniversary (DeltaZeal (G-Stream G2020 port) and XIIZeal (XII Stag Pocket PC port)) (360, 2013)
- Shooting Love Collection (bundles 10th Anniversary and Shooting Love 200X) (360, 2013 TBC)

So, by my count, the Triangle Service shmups, not including ports and remixes are:

Project Moon
G-Stream G2020
XII Stag
Trizeal
Exzeal
Shmups Skill Test
Minus Zero
Combat Zeal

And I think that's it!
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 pm 



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ACSeraph wrote:
Can anyone post here a detailed List of Triangle Service's games and ports, and explain what each one is and how they differ from each other?

Seems like you already kind of asked this question before.

ACSeraph wrote:
I just recently learned of 200x but I'm not really sure what's on it, and I've also seen shooting love stuff on PS2, and some triangle service DC games. Problem is I don't really know what's what and what I actually need to buy.


Between "Shooting Love 10th Anniversary" + "Shooting Love 200X" OR simply the "Shooting Love Collection" you are covered on one single console (Shooting Love 200X comes with "Nice DVD2!" an Exzeal Superplay DVD). Other than that (summarizing info from above):
BPzeBanshee wrote:
Project Moon: 1990-something
In a nutshell: Sharp X68k doujin made by the sole official member of Triangle Service, Toshiaki Fujino. Features a ship that can at will split off into parts, reducing hitbox size.

Wasn't widely distributed (if at all) until its inclusion in a superplay DVD included with one of the games IIRC.


It was on the NIH Insanity DVD "The Shooting Love: XIIStag & TRIZEAL"

Project Moon unearthed - origins of Triangle Service (with link to game)

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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:58 pm 


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Thanks for the assist guys, I knew I had a few hazy spots there somewhere. :)

One thing I want to really emphasise though: XIIZeal on 360 is no straight mobile phone port, nor is it like Ketsui DS to Ketsui arcade. DeltaZeal has a considerable amount of improvements from its original PCB variant, most significant changes include improved enemy patterns and high-quality music.

I can't speak for Shooting Love 200X, but these two games aren't just straight ports from their arcade counterparts - they have polish. Well worth the buy, well worth the bundle if you don't have both already.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:26 pm 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
One thing I want to really emphasise though: XIIZeal on 360 is no straight mobile phone port


But it is based on that version, isn't it? I could well be wrong!
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:41 pm 



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BPzeBanshee wrote:
they have polish.


You could probably say that all of the Triangle Service Xbox 360 renditions are Toshiaki Fujino "Director's Cuts" - however that doesn't imply that they are everybody's favorite.
Is there a definitive description of all of the "TRIZEAL Remix" improvements somewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:35 pm 


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Pretas wrote:
You could call ExZeal the sequel to Trizeal, since they're both in 3D and have similar graphics. I haven't played it myself, but the central mechanic seems to be wobbling around quickly to charge up your shot. It's definitely a full-fledged shooter and not a minigame, even if it was never released standalone.

The mechanics and scoring are based on which ship you choose. Some have charge shot, some have the XII-stag wiggle, etc. And the way you score multipliers is totally different depending on the ship as well (point blanking, comboing, charging shots, etc). So while you play through the same levels, the way you want to play is totally different based on ship selection.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:13 am 


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spadgy wrote:
BPzeBanshee wrote:
One thing I want to really emphasise though: XIIZeal on 360 is no straight mobile phone port


But it is based on that version, isn't it? I could well be wrong!

It may share the name and some portion of the warning sequence but I don't think it's been ported like Windows Phone > 360. To say that makes it sound like Cave porting their Nintendo DS version of Ketsui to the 360 and we all know how well that'd go down.

I'm not sure of the best way to explain this as I see it from a dev view, but based on what I know of Fujino's machine-translated blog posts and dev videos, he seems to have a "master version" that he modifies somewhat for aesthetic purposes, and then from there compiles to platform of choice - while a lot of the backend becomes a different beast the gameplay and 99% of the rest remains intact apart from the "Director's edits" that HydrogLox put so well.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:20 am 


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HydrogLox wrote:
ACSeraph wrote:
Can anyone post here a detailed List of Triangle Service's games and ports, and explain what each one is and how they differ from each other?

Seems like you already kind of asked this question before.


Ah damn sorry man, I remember I had thought about asking it before but I must have forgotten that I ever asked it back then. That was the first time I had seen your reply. Thanks for the answer though!
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:32 pm 


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BPzeBanshee wrote:
I'm not sure of the best way to explain this as I see it from a dev view, but based on what I know of Fujino's machine-translated blog posts and dev videos, he seems to have a "master version" that he modifies somewhat for aesthetic purposes, and then from there compiles to platform of choice - while a lot of the backend becomes a different beast the gameplay and 99% of the rest remains intact apart from the "Director's edits" that HydrogLox put so well.


I see! Makes sense.

So are you a games dev yourself BPzeBanshee? If so, and depending on where you are, I may be able to sort you a free subscription to that games industry mag Develop what I write for! PM me if you're interested.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:50 am 


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Great thread!

here are pages 80-93 of Shooting Love INH Insanity book interview, 300dpi jpgs
and the rest, pages 94-105 plus the inside back cover

playing Trizeal on Dreamcast was part of such a superb culmination of all the shmups which went down on that system.
The variety in that era was fantastic, and the excitement of each new release on the "dead" system was punctuated by the fact that they were all shmups ...and we had to wait for them, what at the time seemed like eternities.
Ikaruga, Border Down, Radirgy, Trizeal
the originality between that stretch of games blows my mind
...then I find myself juggling a stone-man's head on my spaceship while fighting a fortress
Triangle Service for Life!


Last edited by Koa Zo on Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:53 pm 


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This thread is making me excited to get home and give TriZeal a fair chance.

Usually shmupsforum threads re: specific games do the opposite :)
For a bunch of "enthusiasts" theres just too much hate sometimes....

Good thread, for real!
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:56 pm 


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I just bought Shooting Love 10th Anniversary. I also blame this ace thread! :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:24 am 


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spadgy wrote:
I just bought Shooting Love 10th Anniversary. I also blame this ace thread! :wink:

Good choice. :wink:

Any questions on the game, give me a shout sometime. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:44 am 


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Cheers mate. This thread got pimped on Twitter yesterday. We seem to have created some kind of resource, apparently.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:45 pm 


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spadgy wrote:
Cheers mate. This thread got pimped on Twitter yesterday. We seem to have created some kind of resource, apparently.



Woah.

Had me at "thread....pimped....twitter"

Did we just go mainstream!? Somebody warn the elitists!

:)
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:00 pm 


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Also just bought the 10th Anniversary (& Shoot Love 200x) off the back of this thread.

Stoked?

Fuck yeah!

(btw, thanks to all for the succint Triangle list)
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:14 pm 


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Matskat wrote:
spadgy wrote:
Cheers mate. This thread got pimped on Twitter yesterday. We seem to have created some kind of resource, apparently.



Woah.

Had me at "thread....pimped....twitter"

Did we just go mainstream!? Somebody warn the elitists!

:)


Watch out, we're getting cool soon :lol:


So any guesses about Triangles future? I will probably have the word "Love" as part of the title...


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:06 pm 



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xavierjesus wrote:
Also just bought the 10th Anniversary (& Shoot Love 200x) off the back of this thread.


As the Shooting Love Collection I hope?


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:33 pm 



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WeirdRain wrote:
So any guesses about Triangles future?


Given the existence of XIIZEAL for Pocket PC he may to be willing to develop for the mobile market, especially as mobile gaming seems to be exceptionally popular in Japan - though mobile platforms are quite different from arcade PCBs/PCs/consoles. Personally I would view this as unfortunate but he has to make a living somehow. The Xbox 360 development experience could be of help when moving to the Xbox One - but as the Japanese market is giving it the cold shoulder and Microsoft has basically given up (i.e. is giving the Japanese market the cold shoulder) - that path seems rather unlikely. Further PC ports beyond XIISTAG Limited (demo) are unlikely as PC games are not popular in Japan. Moving to a new platform like the Wii-U or PS4 is going to require a lot of time and effort (possibly more than moving to a popular mobile platform). It is not an easy time for Triangle Service/Toshiaki Fujino ...

Project Lambda is one of his work-in-progress efforts from his late Naomi, early PC days - but in my judgement it is a bit ambitious for a single developer. Furthermore the early concept videos (found on "The Shooting Love: XIIStag & TRIZEAL") make it seem like a "Project Sylpheed - Arc of Deception" style game - and that basically bombed in the market (personally I thought it was a good bit of fun). Now if he took a good look at "Ginga Force" and overlayed his "Project Lamba" ideas he could end up with a (kind of) vertical "Hyper Duel" style shooter that a single developer may be able to accomplish.


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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:02 pm 


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If they made iOS shmups I'd lap them up (and hope it also meant more Triangle Service console shooters.

Oh, and in the interest of this thread's emerging role as a Triangle Service resource, one more detail on the games. Common knowledge, but not mentioned here:

Shooting Love 200X is region locked to Japan.
Shooting Love 10th Anniversary is region free.

And as of yet, no suggestion the releases will be any different for their compiled release as Shooting Love Collection.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:10 pm 


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spadgy wrote:
And as of yet, no suggestion the releases will be any different for their compiled release as Shooting Love Collection.

Actually I think someone emailed TS earlier on in this thread and got a reply confirming that 200x would be locked while 10th would be free.
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:57 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Actually I think someone emailed TS earlier on in this thread and got a reply confirming that 200x would be locked while 10th would be free.

Not this thread, but I emailed them myself nearly a fortnight agoin hopefully-machine-translate-friendly English and posted in the other one. Pretty sure spadgy got the news there first unless he has other sources we should know about. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:15 am 


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Yep! That's just where I got it! I wish I had an internal Triangle Service source!

So, my last post in this thread about region compatibility is correct, yeah?
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 Post subject: Re: Triangle Service Confusion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:14 pm 


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Should be spot on. My email was specific to the Shooting Love 200X component of the bundle though, I think the state of 10th Anniversary is assumed region-free based on 200X not having it's region state modified though.
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