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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:25 pm 


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school is cool.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:01 pm 


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Didn't manage to post a score for the last game due to uni deadlines and emulation issues. Should be back in for this round though.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:31 am 


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FYI: I'm currently having trouble with gathering the nominations for the next SSL (either the people I'm waiting on are not coming online or can't think of anything to nominate), so let's just do it this way:

If anyone is interested in nominating games to include in the poll for the next SSL:
  1. send your choices to me via PM, in order of most to least preferred
  2. I'll just pick the nominees from those titles that I receive
  3. I'll give priority to those that are placed higher in the rankings and those that haven't had nominated games included in any of the polls yet
  4. In the event that I still have trouble filling up slots for the poll, I'll just pick the games to include myself.

Thanks! Just PM me if interested :D
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:03 am 


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I've been playing for the past two hours and the highest score I can muster is 700K+.

How to Dimahoo?

Is it better to wait for your charge gauge (is that what it's called) to naturally level up before using it so that you don't have to charge it for long before releasing it? Or is it better to keep using it even if you have to charge it longer to get to the desired charge level?

Is it better to use a few high level charge shots (i.e. - Level 8) or a lot of low-level charge shots (i.e - Level 2) or a balanced mixture of both?

What is chaining in this game (Jaimers just mentioned it on the high score thread)?

General tips to get a high score?

I assume that for bosses in general, you need to destroy all their individual parts to maximize the scoring potential?
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:31 am 


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Why don't you watch a high scoring run and copy it.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:43 am 


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heisenbergman wrote:
Is it better to wait for your charge gauge (is that what it's called) to naturally level up before using it so that you don't have to charge it for long before releasing it? Or is it better to keep using it even if you have to charge it longer to get to the desired charge level?

Is it better to use a few high level charge shots (i.e. - Level 8) or a lot of low-level charge shots (i.e - Level 2) or a balanced mixture of both?


You need to know which enemies drop which items. e.g. for Food and Shoes you can use a 2 or 3 charge at the start of Stage 1 to pick up small items from each set. After you've got those, a 5 or 6 charge on the next batch of similar enemies should get you the medium value items, then a 7 and 8 charge to pick up the large items in each set. It's possible to complete those two sets on Stage 1. Then you've got a x3 multiplier, which should make it easier to reach the first extend (2 million).
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:53 am 


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DocHauser wrote:
It's possible to complete those two sets on Stage 1. Then you've got a x3 multiplier, which should make it easier to reach the first extend (2 million).


You can get Accessories fairly easily as well in the first stage. Pop a lvl 8 charge shot when the first dragon appears and kill the flying round things that come in then. As your meter depletes from 8, 7, 6 etc enemies will drop those different accessories leaving you with only needing a couple to complete the set.

DocHauser wrote:
You need to know which enemies drop which items


This. And make a plan to figure out which sets you are going for. Try to memorize which items you need from a couple sets, while looking at the in-game list to keep track of a couple others.

Zil wrote:
Why don't you watch a high scoring run and copy it.


Because that is boring for a lot of people. It's more fun figuring it out and making your own routes and strategies.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:06 am 


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^
^^ Ah thanks for the tips! I'll try to go more in-depth into whats sets I could collect from the first couple of stages since the first two stages are the only ones I can clear so far.

Zil wrote:
Why don't you watch a high scoring run and copy it.

Yeah, that usually doesn't work out great for me since those who post videos of high scoring shmup runs are so far and away better than me skill-wise that trying to copy the run ends up with me dying faster than I normally would.

I do watch videos, they're not really boring, but I do so mostly just to try and see what the strategies being used are (if they are obvious enough) so that I could decide if I could incorporate them in my play and how to modify them for my skill level.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:21 am 


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heisenbergman wrote:
I do watch videos, they're not really boring, but I do so mostly just to try and see what the strategies being used are (if they are obvious enough) so that I could decide if I could incorporate them in my play and how to modify them for my skill level.


That seems like a very good practice. Zil is practically a world record holder, so copying a replay might be his best strategy, nothing wrong with that. But for people still finding their footing, simply trying to copy a replay is probably not the best way to go about the genre.

Dimahoo is known as a real ball buster, so don't feel bad if the game is working you over.
It took me an absurd amount of practice to regularly score over a million on stage 1. There are 3 secret items (4 if you bomb the building, which is actually not in your best interest since having 4+ bombs by the stage 2 mid boss is more worthwhile).
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:38 am 


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chempop wrote:
Dimahoo is known as a real ball buster

Quoted for fucking truth. Can't count the number of times I cursed the game this morning during my two-hour-or-so play session.

chempop wrote:
It took me an absurd amount of practice to regularly score over a million on stage 1.

Holy shit I need to learn this.

chempop wrote:
having 4+ bombs by the stage 2 mid boss is more worthwhile).

You mean the mid-sized bird-like thing whose mid section moves out the upper part of the screen once you defeat it? Why?
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:06 am 



Joined: 30 Jul 2011
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The biggest annoyance for me is the necessity to pick up items near the bottom of the screen while there's bullets around. It can be so chaotic and hard to tell what's going on, so I die a lot to bullets I didn't see.

I also curse the game every time I die to those chests in stage 4. I always seem to get to stage 4 with an x3 multiplier and then it sometimes goes up to 6 or 7, and sometimes it doesn't. Oh, and my last two runs both game overed to the spider because I'm trying to get level 8 charges on it. :x

I don't really know which character to play as in this game. I stopped using Karte, but none of the other characters I've tried really do it for me, they're either too slow or too weak. Solo-Bang still seems like the best bet so far. I haven't tried any of the secret characters besides Golden yet.

I actually didn't notice it before, but the game does let you know precisely which items you're missing from sets after you clear a stage. This would be helpful, but I don't have the drops memorized, so it doesn't tell me what I need to do on the next stage.

Overall this game is incredibly annoying to try and learn, which is why I don't even bother. I've tried to watch this superplay but the quality makes it an eyesore. Shame.


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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:11 am 


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chum wrote:
It can be so chaotic and hard to tell what's going on, so I die a lot to bullets I didn't see.

Basically sums up my relationship with Raizing games... :-/
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:34 am 


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chum wrote:
I also curse the game every time I die to those chests in stage 4


You might want to try and wait until they are all on screen and destroy the top ones before going after the first row because they can't shoot upwards. Also, bullet sealing is KEY in this game. All ground enemies can shoot when you are on top of them.

chum wrote:
Overall this game is incredibly annoying to try and learn, which is why I don't even bother.


It's a steep learning curve for sure. My advice is to break down your goals and make a plan.
I go for Complete Food, Shoes, Accessories on stage 1.
Complete Axes and Armor, and get close to Staffs, Helmets, and Swords on Stage 2.
Complete Staffs and Shields on Stage 3.. etc. Certain runs go considerably better than others lol.

heisenbergman wrote:
You mean the mid-sized bird-like thing whose mid section moves out the upper part of the screen once you defeat it? Why?


The stealth bomber sometimes appears as red or blue. if you have 4 bombs killing it with opposite color while magic is deployed it will drop a legend sword. Same goes for the pair of them at the end of stage 5 (but they are MUCH MORE EVIL). Right after words I shoot enemies until I have lvl 7 or 8 magic (depending on which items I need, and you can get a near full set of armor and helmets. Shoot a couple more enemies and do a lower lvl magic for the small value items too.

For getting over a million on stage 1. Avoid the bomb shards from the first set of enemies. When the dragon appears there are little background dudes running under it, high lvl magic them for a pinwheel secret item: 100,000pts. At the boss weaken it's drill-tail by flying to the top of the screen a few times. Then high lvl magic and point blank it for a fairy drop: 300.000pts (due to X3 multiplier). Finish the boss off with a lvl 8 magic for the ruby: 300,000pts. So that's 700,000pts just from those 3 secret items...
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:12 am 


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chum wrote:
Overall this game is incredibly annoying to try and learn, which is why I don't even bother. I've tried to watch this superplay but the quality makes it an eyesore. Shame.


Could be worse, you could have tried watching this 'walkthrough' for hints.

Just curious, Batrider also has its fair share of obscure secrets - why do you find Dimahoo more annoying in that respect?
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:18 am 


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I tried a couple of runs ignoring score and just aiming for survival and made it to Infernon.

Looking at the forum score table, there are only two ALLs and one of those is a lowly 3.5 million score with Birthday. Just wondering if it's possible to go for a low-rank clear by ignoring item collection. The last stage still looks pretty tough, though...
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:54 pm 


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Low rank (and score) clear is certainly worth playing around with. I've hear that the NO ITEM will actually increase rank more than just getting 1, makes sense. Also, weapon and magic powerups have a huge influence on rank too. If you only collect 1 magic item through stage 1, the boss dies almost instantly.. pretty hilarious. Birthday is notorious for having a bomb that even obliterates even the late game bosses when point blanked. The question is, are slower bullets easier to dodge? Sometimes. Certain patterns are going to be easier, but then again, bullets stay on the screen longer and things often get more crowded with slow bullets.

Crap, I can go on and on about this game.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:29 pm 



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DocHauser wrote:
Just curious, Batrider also has its fair share of obscure secrets - why do you find Dimahoo more annoying in that respect?


Because there's too many items and there's too many drops to memorize - all at once - to get a high multiplier. I can't just slowly work my way up and get even remotely satisfying results from it. In Batrider I learned everything little by little, bit by bit. That's generally how I go about learning a game.

The item vomit is also annoying and difficult. They could've at least made the items a different colour, to distinguish them from the bullets. Make no mistake, I'm sure you can get used to it and work around it.
chempop wrote:
You might want to try and wait until they are all on screen and destroy the top ones before going after the first row because they can't shoot upwards


I'll try it sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:36 pm 



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
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I tried giving the game a chance but the last post and this are pretty much the same that I think. It might be fun after you completely know everything you're supposed to do but it's like the developers did everything they could to make the game as unfun to learn as possible. The hilariously unusable item list is the best example.

It's almost like trying to learn DDP where the chain meter and counter are invisible and only at the end of the stage are you told how long your best chain was.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #4: Dimahoo)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:04 pm 


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Yeah it's quite rough trying to get something out of the game in a week, both score and satisfaction wise... will submit my ~1.5m kuso at some point before the deadline I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:39 am 


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Just got around to updating the main score table now.

Hm... :|

That's all.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:42 pm 


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I think after this latest game, with the dipping participation + the holidays and new year just around the corner, this should be as good a time as any other to take an indefinite hiatus from SSL first :)
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:32 pm 


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The fifth week in any tourney or whatever is usually pretty slow. But yes, I think it might be a good idea to take a break. Maybe in the future you should stick to that bi-weekly format.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:09 pm 



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heisenbergman wrote:
I think after this latest game, with the dipping participation + the holidays and new year just around the corner, this should be as good a time as any other to take an indefinite hiatus from SSL first :)


I think the game (apparently 19XX) should at least have a score thread.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:21 pm 


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heisenbergman wrote:
I think after this latest game, with the dipping participation + the holidays and new year just around the corner, this should be as good a time as any other to take an indefinite hiatus from SSL first :)


I was going to play, since I really love Cho Ren Sha, but I was a bit too busy with school and didn't have time to get a decent score in.
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 Post subject: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:56 pm 


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How about just making the game run longer - like 20 days? Or 1 month? I mean if people still want to play.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:05 am 


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heisenbergman wrote:
How about just making the game run longer - like 20 days? Or 1 month? I mean if people still want to play.

Seems too arbitrary. Either change the length of all future games or not at all(this season, at least). Weren't we set out for 8 games/season or something like that? I get this is more or less a test run and we already went through a change of ranking system and game-suggestion mechanism mid-season, but going nuts with the changes will just piss people off.

Squire Grooktook wrote:
heisenbergman wrote:
I think after this latest game, with the dipping participation + the holidays and new year just around the corner, this should be as good a time as any other to take an indefinite hiatus from SSL first :)


I was going to play, since I really love Cho Ren Sha, but I was a bit too busy with school and didn't have time to get a decent score in.

Same. Would play the summer away for all I care, but last couple of weeks were tight schoolwise.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:17 am 



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I was kind of assuming 19XX has already started since the vote and the last game ended, and I've been playing it a bit already. Just arbitrarily extending a game past what was originally said to be the deadline doesn't sound very good.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:44 am 


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Okay, will just create a thread for 19XX then taking a break.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:09 pm 


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Hey heisenbergman, here's my recommendation after the break is over.

You should have a week for the game. When the week ends, we can start the break week. During the break week is when voting should take place. You could also have voting maybe 3 days before the next week starts to prevent any "extra" practice.
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 Post subject: Re: SSL Discussion Thread (Game #5: Cho Ren Sha 68K)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:21 am 


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FYI - I'll have to find time after the Holidays to catch up with wrapping-up SSL in detail, but I will.

On top of the usual work and life duties, I've got two weddings, my kid's first birthday and the Christmas rush to attend to all in the span of a few weeks.

I also have to tally the best shmup ost thread results (I've already done one pass through the votes, but want to do another one to double-check).

Cheers.
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