TRP-STGT 2013 Conversation Week 1: Armed Police Batrider

[Deca]

OK there I posted a score, you made me stay up too late playing

I had a dumb idea that didn't pan out after that, I set it up once and then blew it completely. Should have savestated to see if it's even worth doing.

[Zerst]

So is Bashinet Mk2 just a complete trainwreck of a boss or is there something I'm not getting. I've never understood what the hell the game expects of me when that guy walks up.

It's the worst most RNG bullshit fight in the game.

Phase 1, each side has a 50/50 shot of using the yellow rings or the exploding jars. The front arms (jars) are invincible, but BOTH back arms must be destroyed before Bashi enters phase 2 and can be killed (this means with bad luck he will time out before ever becoming vulnerable, since you can't damage the back arms unless he uses the rings attack). If it takes long enough, he can start to throw jars from a side where the back arm has already been destroyed. If this happens, even if both back arms are gone, he will not enter phase 2 until the game randomly decides to make him stop throwing jars.

Once he is phase 2, he randomly picks one of three attacks: Destroyable missiles, cluster bombs, and his laser spread. For ships without a piercing attack, the laser spread is the only way you can damage him. In order to kill him, it usually takes about three laser spreads. If he randomly never uses three laser spreads you can't do shit at all and he times out.

When he times out, he fires the cluster bombs at completely random points across the entire screen, with no prediction, so it is just a total crapshoot if you die or not (I use a bomb when I see him timing out if I can't afford a death).

[Deca]

Very useful info, thank you!

Any chance you have tips on Envy or Tsumuji you wouldn't mind sharing? I'm fairly certain Envy is mostly just "get good", the main thing I don't understand is the behavior of the tiny stop and go lasers and how to know you're out of the way.

[Zerst]

Nah Envy is just a big game of panic bomb chicken there isn't shit you can do about it.

I haven't figured out consistent ways to do the Tsumuji fight, myself. He starts his attacks so abruptly, and there isn't one single way to predodge all of them. Usually what I do though, is sit just left of the middle at the bottom of the screen, and when he's about to start his random attack, jam up and left fast. If I see him jump to the left for his fire attack, I just bomb, otherwise I usually dodge the rest of it. For the shurikens, you want to sit at the left corner (to give yourself more reaction time) and just try to wing it; there's no pattern to where his first shot goes.

[Deca]

Hah, well that makes me feel a bit better about the trouble I have with those guys. Once I finally get the timing of Envy's big spread beam and learn to misdirect it I'll feel a lot better, and that's just a matter of practice I'm sure. Tsumuji is just kind of brutal, especially compared to the other ninja which is basically just a free bomb.

I kind of feel bad for anyone that had to start on this game from scratch this week. I'm enjoying it though, I'm already feeling a bit more confident toward late game bosses. Might motivate me to really push for that Adv clear, especially if I can get Grubby sorted.

[IDruggedShamu]

I kind of feel bad for anyone that had to start on this game from scratch this week.

That would be me for sure It also doesn't help that I have hardly had any time to REALLY sit down with it lol. I've only got to play 4 credits so far

[DocHauser]

It's a good thing I watched trap's video. It turns out I've been pressing A instead of Start when selecting Game Mode from the service menu, so I guess I've been playing at a higher rank than everyone else...

Just posted an improved score doing it the right way this time...

[IDruggedShamu]

It's a good thing I watched trap's video. It turns out I've been pressing A instead of Start when selecting Game Mode from the service menu, so I guess I've been playing at a higher rank than everyone else...

Just posted an improved score doing it the right way this time...

Don't feel bad, I was doing the exact same thing until this afternoon :X

[CStarFlare]

I started playing Special since this began, and I realized that I'm just playing so I can fight Black Heart. All the other bosses can go die.

[drunkninja24]

Man, even on this mode, I'm still having a super hard time wrapping my head around this game. Too much Cave on the brain

[trap15]

I started playing Special since this began, and I realized that I'm just playing so I can fight Black Heart.

The Black Heart fight fairly truly is a masterpiece of STG boss design. Probably my single favorite boss in any game ever.

[Deca]

Black Heart is definitely my favorite shooter boss...but I still can't do shit against mk2, especially in Garegga proper. I just can't get those vulcan sweeps.

[Obscura]

Fuckin' A, annihilated my previous best, annihilated the GET Score.

Now I really feel OK if I decide to be done with this, since BH2's vulcan has me *really* over my head.

[Tigershark]

Speaking personally, I don't like this at all. I get killed by things I can't see and some of the bullet patterns defy avoidance. I really do not like games where I feel I managed to beat something due to luck rather than judgment. I'll post a score and wait for next week.

[DocHauser]

Just watched chum's .inp replay. Man, the score really shoots up in those later stages. I noticed that he avoids collecting most of the power-ups after dying. Does this have a big effect on the rank? My main instinct is usually to collect as much as possible.

One thing I've learned from this challenge is that, if Shmups Forum was actually Shmups Farm, then I would not be given the job of milking the bosses...

[ciox]

Just watched chum's .inp replay. Man, the score really shoots up in those later stages. I noticed that he avoids collecting most of the power-ups after dying. Does this have a big effect on the rank? My main instinct is usually to collect as much as possible.

The effect on rank shouldn't be too large so I guess it depends on your level of play, at a high level I guess you'll want to keep rank low at all costs since you'll end up going through so many bosses and you want to survive.
On the other hand if you pick up all the large Shot powerups that's 20,000 points right there, with some extends you can get to 100,000 points just from those silly powerups, that can be a big part of your score at a lower level of play.

One thing I've learned from this challenge is that, if Shmups Forum was actually Shmups Farm, then I would not be given the job of milking the bosses...

[trap15]

It does have a fair bit of effect on rank, but for milking a lot of the bosses, a higher rank is better for more points and popcorn.

[Lynx Winters]

Sorry, but I have to drop out of this. Just too much stuff going on right now to play anything.

[ColonelFatso]

I'm having way more fun than I ought to be this week. I usually hate boss milking with a frenzied passion (though I enjoy most other types of optimization, strangely), but I'm having a blast with Batrider.

[1up]

I'm having lots of fun with this game. I've never really played Batrider and generally find Yagawa games too hard for me, but this boss rush mode is so much fun. Seeing these bosses, all the animation and those crazy patterns is really awesome and that boss music

I now understand why people are so into Raizing

[Deca]

I can understand issues people have with Raizing (not that I agree with any of them) but you can't deny that they just cannot be matched for presentation and style. There's just so much going on.

If you're enjoying the Special course I really recommend you spend some time with the Normal and Advanced courses when you have the time. The stages are incredible, just great attention to detail all around.

As an aside, I'm feeling more confident than I ever have about an Advanced clear. I've been doing runs here and there since I've been getting all this concentrated boss practice and I find myself getting to Grubby without too much trouble and actually starting to have the slightest sense of confidence while fighting him. I still have practically zero experience fighting Discharge however, so we'll see how that goes once I overcome Grubby.

some of the bullet patterns defy avoidance. I really do not like games where I feel I managed to beat something due to luck rather than judgment.

What are some specific things giving you trouble? Like I said earlier, there's a lot to take in here in a week if you haven't played the game before. I'd be happy to offer advice to help you better enjoy the game. I remember way back when I was first starting a lot of stuff seemed very confusing or overwhelming, but once you know what you're doing it becomes rather trivial in most cases. You can't approach this game like you would a Cave title, once you get into the flow of things it really opens up.

As far as visibility goes, you could try changing bullet color. Most of those issues are overcome with time and just learning what to look for however, just like Garegga.

[ACSeraph]

It's a good thing I watched trap's video. It turns out I've been pressing A instead of Start when selecting Game Mode from the service menu, so I guess I've been playing at a higher rank than everyone else...

Just posted an improved score doing it the right way this time...

The hell really?! I thought the game seemed kinda hard for easy mode... Need to go try again this evening using start...

Since this is my first time playing this game I'm just sort of rolling with everything. All of the different characters and shot modes make this difficult to start from scratch in a one week tournament, but its fun as it is and I think my recent Psikyo addiction is helping me out with this one. Very similar style.

[trap15]

It's actually not really easy mode. The "Difficulty" DIP switches only affect the starting rank. The "Timer" switches affect the per-frame rank. It's quite a significant spike from Normal to Hard timer.

[ACSeraph]

Oh so we are starting at low rank but it spikes really quickly? What does pressing start do then? I pressed A for my other runs does that void my score?

[trap15]

The way it works is Difficulty determines the edges of the rank (low-end and high-end), and Timer determines the starting per-frame rank. The starting rank is based on percentages of the high-end of the rank. Pressing A and pressing Start give different percentages (I believe? I need to verify this at some point). You are allowed to use either one, but unless you're really good you probably want to use Start. Higher rank means more popcorn and bosses with more life, which can be turned into more points if you can survive.

[ACSeraph]

Interesting, good info thanks.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

So, do you have to reset after every run to make sure the rank is low? How do I keep the options on the Battle Garegga ships from constantly changing formation?

[Deca]

You have to reset after every run to completely reset the rank, I wouldn't say it's essential though. Don't get too hung up on it while you're still figuring stuff out, just reset every so many runs if it makes you feel better. Don't let the idea of rank psych you out too much, higher rank isn't going to throw undodgeable walls at you or anything like that.

As for Garegga options, they change when you hit the C button. There are also some fighter-esque directional inputs you can execute and then press A to change immediately to different formations. I almost never see them activate unintentionally so if that's an issue my advise would be to flail less.

Getting comfortable with the Garegga options can be really helpful, trace in particular is incredibly useful in high level scoring. For lower level play it can be handy to use the forward formation when you want to focus on particular parts of a boss or do more damage to its weak point. If you play enough it'll be a reflex, tap C twice to go from normal to forward and then tap it three more times to go back to normal.

[n0rtygames]

You have to reset after every run to completely reset the rank, I wouldn't say it's essential though. Don't get too hung up on it while you're still figuring stuff out, just reset every so many runs if it makes you feel better. Don't let the idea of rank psych you out too much

May seem like an obvious statement, but if you're playing on MAME couldn't you just savestate on the push start screen/character select to get around this?

[trap15]

I believe a savestate on anywhere past the title screen will always give you the same boss order. Which means it's terrible for practicing for 'the run'.