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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:01 pm 


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Awesome stuff Icarus, thanks for putting that up. Really appreciated.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:06 pm 


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Fantastic and very high quality. I do have to agree that commentary should last longer and possibly be broken up.

Additionally, commentary baked into the video would be nice (audio or text, either is fine) for those of us who have severe issues watching anything on Youtube these days :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:27 pm 



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Yup, i would have loved to download the video if the commentaries where in.
Though is suppose that then you loose the point of using youtube commentaries (ease of correction).


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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:05 pm 


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The annotations could be longer, I found myself looking at the gameplay and not really noticing the annotations until it was too late to absorb/read them. It's a tough thing to time right though because the context in the gameplay for the annotation comes and goes so quickly.

Perhaps do a separate video that is just interesting parts in slo-mo that really breaks down the reasoning for stuff. I remember the Mushi 'Secret Lover' DVD did this when explaining all the crazy tapping techniques.

As your Final Cut skills grow, I'm sure you'll figure something out. Again, really great work, you are totally raising the bar for replay quality.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:09 pm 


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wnka wrote:
The annotations could be longer, I found myself looking at the gameplay and not really noticing the annotations until it was too late to absorb/read them. It's a tough thing to time right though because the context in the gameplay for the annotation comes and goes so quickly.


Maybe the trick is to put them like, half a second before the relvant part of the game is reached.
I really wish I had more time to read the annotatations, they made the run so much more interesting.

Keep up the great work ICR
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:20 pm 


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Kamui: 'Dances Around Bullets'... never bored watching her replays :wink:

Great work Icarus, looking forward to the next episodes :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:33 pm 


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Excellent quality replay. Very much in the same class as the INH releases. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to what comes next.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:47 pm 


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Nice work, and appreciate the annotations, hope to see more like these in the future.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:06 am 


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Okay, I've gone back through the replay and retimed all of the annotations, so that now they last an average of 9sec (with 12sec being the longest), so they should be more readable and noticeable now. I've added a couple more here and there as well, explaining some suicides and a couple more techniques that may need to be covered in detail.

Regarding baked-in annotations:
The main reason I won't bake them in is because it takes too long to create a replay that way, and since current exports take 12hrs minimum at this level of video and audio quality, that's a lot of time spent going through the video fixing errors and re-exporting the project. I can understand the desire to have them baked-in, but I just don't deem it efficient enough to be worthwhile.

The other reason for not baking in annotations is to enable easier native language translations.

However, in the interests of keeping people happy, I have made available the current annotations in both Youtube .xml and SubRip .srt formats. You can load the .srt side-by-side with the replay and have annotations come up as subtitles. Bear in mind that .srt files do not have positioning and text formatting support, so you'll have to change font sizes and families within your video player for taste. I'm also providing these raw annotations for those that might want to have a bit of fun formatting the .srt into a .sub and then muxing the whole lot together into a Matroska .mkv. That is outside the scope of the project for me however, but feel free to try it.

In any rate, Special Demonstrations 02 is being worked on, and depending on my current work schedules, should be ready within a fortnight.

wnka wrote:
Perhaps do a separate video that is just interesting parts in slo-mo that really breaks down the reasoning for stuff. I remember the Mushi 'Secret Lover' DVD did this when explaining all the crazy tapping techniques.


Noted. I want to concentrate on getting the footage out there first, but it's an interesting idea that might be doable if it doesn't take too much time to sort out.

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Now wishful thinking :mrgreen: : videos for Dimahoo (another one where superplays have dismal quality), and Donpachi (tell SOF-WTN we would be happy with small potatoes, 70-75 million would suffice :mrgreen: ).


Wishful thinking indeed. Outside of the elusive Clover-TAC, I don't know many other Great Mahou players.
As for Donpachi, funny story: I recall talking to someone at Stunfest about that, and I was told that the current WR score replay actually exists in DVD format, and is held at a specific arcade in Japan, probably Ebisen. You can actually go and request to watch it from the counter, but you're not allowed to make a recording of any kind, and you can't take it out of the arcade.
Secretive much? ;p
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Last edited by Icarus on Thu May 23, 2013 12:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:10 am 


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That sounds like a job for Google Glass.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:42 am 


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Whoever knows how to do it, It would be awesome to have an .srt file of all the annotations -- or if someone is able to make a whole .mkv file it'd be extra awesome. Thanks again for all the hard work on this vid!


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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:14 am 


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I found a thing called Google2SRT but it only works with Closed Captions, not Annotations. If we want the SRTs separately I guess it'll be up to Icarus.

Thanks again for the upload too. Very professional vid.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:44 am 


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Yeah, about the only other thing I would look for would be razor sharp 1080p capture, as the pixels are still ever-so-slightly soft in this encoding. Given the method of capture, I don't know if that is even technically possible, though. The quality is already great.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:20 am 


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The .srt file was already made available. As I noted, they are unformatted by nature. (Check the OP if you're looking for them.)
The .xml file has positioning info, but I don't know of any applications that can convert them into a subtitle file that supports positioning.
I am happy for someone to create muxed .mkvs with formatted annotations, as long as credit is given where due when you distribute it.

As for 1080p, I'm saving that one for something special. ^_-
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:53 am 



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https://github.com/nirbheek/youtube-ass

That might be a bit better than SRT. Also who names a file format ASS?

Edit: The script required a bit of changing (youtube annotation url changed, yes I could have used the existing XML file you have here, shut up) but it does work.

Here's the ASS file: http://bigcore.rsdio.com/zakk/stuff/SHnIGlw0ob8.ass

If you download the video via one of the many youtube downloaders, just name the video and ASS file the same, if your player supports ASS it should just work. I tested in VLC and it works well.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:16 am 


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zakk wrote:
Edit: The script required a bit of changing (youtube annotation url changed, yes I could have used the existing XML file you have here, shut up) but it does work.
Here's the ASS file: http://bigcore.rsdio.com/zakk/stuff/SHnIGlw0ob8.ass
If you download the video via one of the many youtube downloaders, just name the video and ASS file the same, if your player supports ASS it should just work. I tested in VLC and it works well.


I just tried it in VLC Mac and it comes out garbled, but MPlayerX Mac works fine. I don't know if it aligns properly vertically though, as it seems to vertically center the whole block rather than start from a perdetermined position relative to the top of the video, which might be an issue with larger annotations.
Works fine though, so it's a usable solution. Thanks for finding it.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:34 am 


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Nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:50 pm 


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Finally primed my VPN to watch this and

Mind b l o w n

What a run. Fucking Garegga man, the whole game is a milk.

I was so on the edge of my seat during Glow Squid I almost fell off of it. It's an incredible demonstration. Shows just how many different levels of play can be eked of of Garegga, and imo, proves why it's one of the greatest games ever made.

Icarus, you did a superb job on presentation. I didn't have much of a prob reading the annotations, although I read kinda quick. They were a really good idea btw.

Just a question: did I just watch a run at max rank? Because the stg6 wall sure as hell looked like it. From what I understood from most of the annotations, Kamui was generally suiciding to manage things like bomb stock to score more, and in dead spot sections rapid firing just to keep rank right up. Initially I though the suiciding looked like rank control, but by the end I wasn't so sure. Would be cool if you could clarify.

The Glow Squid fight was just insane. You need cyber optics just to see what the hell is coming at you letalone survive all that shit. Just incredible.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:35 pm 


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Great video. I didn't know it had annotations until I read the rest of the topic though, I always have those turned off. Makes it much better.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:46 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
Just a question: did I just watch a run at max rank? Because the stg6 wall sure as hell looked like it. From what I understood from most of the annotations, Kamui was generally suiciding to manage things like bomb stock to score more, and in dead spot sections rapid firing just to keep rank right up. Initially I though the suiciding looked like rank control, but by the end I wasn't so sure. Would be cool if you could clarify.

The Glow Squid fight was just insane. You need cyber optics just to see what the hell is coming at you letalone survive all that shit. Just incredible.


Yes, the run was approaching maximum rank. From about the beginning of stage 5 onwards, Kamui will abandon rank control play and instead aim to push rank as high as possible, so she can extract the highest amount of points from tick damage, and also from the grenades Black Heart 2 spews out.

There is still a lot of luck involved at this stage, though. Particularly with Black Heart 2, the attack patterns you get on the first and third forms are usually randomly selected, and you preferably want it to spew grenades all day, every day. The majority of the time, it doesn't though.

All of her techniques are designed for consistency, to get her over 19.5mil even after bad luck on Black Heart 2 and the stage 2 flamingos, two of the highest scoring and most random techniques in the game. Her scoring potential is most definitely over 21mil, but for that, she needs the perfect run.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:13 pm 


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Icarus wrote:
There is still a lot of luck involved at this stage, though. Particularly with Black Heart 2, the attack patterns you get on the first and third forms are usually randomly selected, and you preferably want it to spew grenades all day, every day. The majority of the time, it doesn't though.


Yep, I read the in-game note on that. She got a fair few grenades but always room for more I guess.

So rank control until stg5. I'll need to keep that in mind for the next watch. I was secretly hoping for a stats tally screen afterwards to see how many extends were won. That was Garegga manipulation at its finest, nerves of steel.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:23 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
I was secretly hoping for a stats tally screen afterwards to see how many extends were won.

Well, the score was 20 million and change, so I'm going to guess...20 ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:24 pm 


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You mean 21 ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:42 pm 


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I always forget about the fixed extend in this game. I stand corrected!
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:45 pm 


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Icarus wrote:
All of her techniques are designed for consistency, to get her over 19.5mil even after bad luck on Black Heart 2 and the stage 2 flamingos, two of the highest scoring and most random techniques in the game. Her scoring potential is most definitely over 21mil, but for that, she needs the perfect run.


So in terms of performance, would you say this run is near-perfect and the only improvements would come from lucky patterns? Or are there further tweaks Kamui could make to improve further?
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:06 pm 


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CStarFlare wrote:
So in terms of performance, would you say this run is near-perfect and the only improvements would come from lucky patterns? Or are there further tweaks Kamui could make to improve further?


I think she could push still further, to be honest. When I was annotating the run, I was also referring to her older replays that were available, and even in the 20.7mil ALL she used techniques in this Special Demonstration that weren't present in the older plays. She herself says that her older replays were done with the "old Gain", and she really wants to demonstrate her "new Gain" strategies to all that want to see it.

It's certainly clear that even after all these years, she's still finding small optimisations here and there.

This 20.39mil run had a number of small, barely noticeable (to the untrained eye) errors, and some tough luck in places. I reckon that if she somehow manages to nail everything on these current strategies, and with perfect luck on the heavily random scoring situations, she'd be at 21.5mil.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:23 pm 



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Icarus wrote:
zakk wrote:
Edit: The script required a bit of changing (youtube annotation url changed, yes I could have used the existing XML file you have here, shut up) but it does work.
Here's the ASS file: http://bigcore.rsdio.com/zakk/stuff/SHnIGlw0ob8.ass
If you download the video via one of the many youtube downloaders, just name the video and ASS file the same, if your player supports ASS it should just work. I tested in VLC and it works well.


I just tried it in VLC Mac and it comes out garbled, but MPlayerX Mac works fine. I don't know if it aligns properly vertically though, as it seems to vertically center the whole block rather than start from a perdetermined position relative to the top of the video, which might be an issue with larger annotations.
Works fine though, so it's a usable solution. Thanks for finding it.


It renders fine here on VLC OSX, version 2.0.3. However, I did find that the script has a bug: it doesn't properly encode new lines into the ASS file, so some of the annotations are cut off. (See the names of bosses). I know how to fix it so I'll do that tonight.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:01 am 



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Thanks for putting this up, Icarus! Nice to see a few new little tricks along the way.

Admittedly, I was bored during the low-stress milking sessions. You could add extra commentary during this time to keep me engaged, stuff like when KAMUI knows when the bosses are about to time out, comparison between KAMUI's old and new strategies, or subtle tactics that KAMUI executed well or could have better executed. I've watched TASes that gave interesting trivia about the game during grinding stages, and those kept me entertained.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:18 am 


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Keres wrote:
Skykid wrote:
I was secretly hoping for a stats tally screen afterwards to see how many extends were won.

Well, the score was 20 million and change, so I'm going to guess...20 ;)


Lol, of course :slaps forehead:

21 then.

Out of interest, what are the score/s on the INH DVD The Madness?
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 Post subject: Re: Battle Garegga: Special Demonstrations (replay #1 releas
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:18 am 


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Skykid wrote:
Out of interest, what are the score/s on the INH DVD The Madness?


Gain: 19,876,220 (T^3 Kamui)
Silver Sword: 14,893,540 (DXP Yoshidaya)
Miyamoto: 17,384,790 (DXP Yoshidaya)
Grasshopper: 14,199,040 (DXP Yoshidaya)
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