10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I didn't mean to call those particular titles obscure. I've been playing them in mame for years. What I mean is in general it's a trend to do this so some people will vote for virtually anything decent and not Cave so they don't have to vote for too many Cave games. People virtually flogged themselves when they ended up voting for too many Cave games and started a brag list of how many non-Cave companies they had in their vote lists. Progear is way more fun than they are to me, but the kicker was Dimahoo. It's shit.

[EmperorIng]

You're right, I feel so guilty for having only three Cave titles in my list instead of ten. Waitaminute.

Besides, it didn't matter because Cave games were the majority of the list anyhow. So you're upset because...? Cave's boring horizontal Progear didn't make the cut?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I'm not upset, and just because something is a trend on the boards doesn't mean you did it. I don't remember what you voted for.

[Imhotep]

I take Dimahoo over some of Cave's output anyday, thanks to your striking analysis of the crowd's taste I've figured out why

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Happy for you.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

People virtually flogged themselves when they ended up voting for too many Cave games and started a brag list of how many non-Cave companies they had in their vote lists.

The QQing people gave over having excess reps in their own entries was pretty sad, I'll give you that. Certainly contradicts the statement that no fucks should be given if you did decide to vote like that.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Look at me with a straight face and tell me that Gunbird 2 is better than MUSHA,

A straight face would indeed be impossible to maintain due to uncontrollable urge to belly laugh at the implication that it isn't. I have a ridiculous love for Mega Drive games just for being Mega Drive games, but still - the game is little but a graphics/music showcase. While Gunbird 2 is a fast and brutal game that can keep a person coming back for years just to complete it (short as it is). It's also not too shabby looking. Thunder Force IV stands above the other games mentioned, but I can still see why it wouldn't rank above 25+ arcade releases.

I noticed you didn't mention Gunbird 2's music. I find it to be extremely uninspired like just about all Psikyo shooters. I see what you're saying though, how arcade releases are pretty much always going to have better gameplay.

As for those who don't like MUSHA's music, I just pray you're not playing it with a Genesis 2 hooked up to your tv's default speakers. I see this all the time with people who bash the soundtracks of Sega Genesis games that are known for having great ones.

[Kollision]

As for those who don't like MUSHA's music, I just pray you're not playing it with a Genesis 2 hooked up to your tv's default speakers. I see this all the time with people who bash the soundtracks of Sega Genesis games that are known for having great ones.

I love music from the Mega Drive, in fact it's my favorite console ever.
MUSHA's music is okay, I just find it overrated. People like to shout about "how awesome it is" but well, I'd take Twin Cobra's over it any day.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Then I hear Battle Garegga is a visual mess and the rank system is stupid because it punishes you for doing well.

"Whoever you heard that from is retarded. If the rank is punishing you, you're not doing well at all."

I think they actually had a point. Doesn't earning/having a bunch of extra lives raise the rank?

[MrOldSchoolCool]

As for those who don't like MUSHA's music, I just pray you're not playing it with a Genesis 2 hooked up to your tv's default speakers. I see this all the time with people who bash the soundtracks of Sega Genesis games that are known for having great ones.

I love music from the Mega Drive, in fact it's my favorite console ever.
MUSHA's music is okay, I just find it overrated. People like to shout about "how awesome it is" but well, I'd take Twin Cobra's over it any day.

To each their own dude.

[Eaglet]

I think they actually had a point. Doesn't earning/having a bunch of extra lives raise the rank?

Here you go: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=351

This really should be a sticky in every part of the forum.

[dannnnn]

Care to elaborate what makes you think that G3 is better than GG? I'm with Mortificator all the way on this one. Please don't mistake my post as a trolling attempt. I'm really curious to hear your arguments.

I wrote a little bit about my thoughts on Gaiden a while ago in this thread.

Reading it back now, some of my individual complaints come across as a bit whiny. I think BulletMagnet said it better in two lines than I did in four paragraphs. Basically to sum up, Gaiden to me is more about style over substance and feels very much "consolised" (or rather, bastardised :p) when compared to its arcade counterparts.

Gradius III on the other hand is a masterpiece IMO and one of the few games I'd genuinely describe as epic. Some don't like its length, I think it's perfect. It takes everything that was great about past entries, expands upon them, cranks up the intensity and adds a ton of variety of its own. It's fair, but unforgiving of mistakes. It throws everything at you and is all the more satisfying for it. I actually find it reminds me of Battle Garegga in the sense that the more I play it, watch it and just generally learn more about it, the easier it becomes to appreciate just how great a game it is. It might not have a fancy scoring system, but that's not to say it doesn't have depth. I also think a lot of people are put off by its reputation for being excessively difficult, which I largely believe to be an exagerrated myth. Apart from the stage three boss timeout pattern, there's no reason why anybody should not be able to make it through at least a large portion of the game (if not clear it) on sheer practice alone.

Anyway, my original point was just that although Gaiden is more popular on this forum for sure, it simply comes down to personal taste. Gradius is one series which is all about subjectivity since there isn't a single bad game amongst them as far as I'm concerned.

[EmperorIng]

One of these days, I'll pick up the Salamander Deluxe Pack and Gradius Deluxe Pack and wallow in Konami punishing shooting love. Agree about the Gradius series of course.

Look at me with a straight face and tell me that Gunbird 2 is better than MUSHA,

A straight face would indeed be impossible to maintain due to uncontrollable urge to belly laugh at the implication that it isn't. I have a ridiculous love for Mega Drive games just for being Mega Drive games, but still - the game is little but a graphics/music showcase. While Gunbird 2 is a fast and brutal game that can keep a person coming back for years just to complete it (short as it is). It's also not too shabby looking. Thunder Force IV stands above the other games mentioned, but I can still see why it wouldn't rank above 25+ arcade releases.

I noticed you didn't mention Gunbird 2's music. I find it to be extremely uninspired like just about all Psikyo shooters. I see what you're saying though, how arcade releases are pretty much always going to have better gameplay.

Outside of like, two Psikyo games that have had good music (for some reason, Sol Divide is one of them!), there's really no reason to talk about Psikyo music when talking about the quality of Psikyo games in general. The reason to PLAY Gunbird 2 is that it is an excellent, 'fast and brutal' game.

[BIL]

I think they actually had a point. Doesn't earning/having a bunch of extra lives raise the rank?

Extra lives = expendable scoring resource. You want to be trading those in for bombs, which you use to get more points, which gets you more extra lives, which you trade in... it's a feedback loop. Garegga's not the typical shooting game, which is partially why I love it. And Border Down. Sometimes it's cool to tear up the "shoot all the time, grab all items, never bomb, never die" rulebook.

Outside of like, two Psikyo games that have had good music (for some reason, Sol Divide is one of them!), there's really no reason to talk about Psikyo music when talking about the quality of Psikyo games in general. The reason to PLAY Gunbird 2 is that it is an excellent, 'fast and brutal' game.

Word. GB2 does nothing at all for me artistically (I'm a Raiden Fighters "high-performance jetfighters killing diesel-guzzling monster machines to the 500BPM soundtrack of a photocopier fucking a fax machine" kind of guy). But underneath the little girls and tinkly muzak GB2 is an exceptionally concise and punishing shooter with a killer scoring hook. I'd take it to a desert island over the vastly cooler-looking Musha Aleste any day. This isn't a slight on Musha, GB2's just the better-designed game.

I did vote for Zanac Neo, my favourite Compile shooter largely for having what Musha lacks - pace. Same body-ramming invincibility-hopping gunwall-infested action without the ten minute preamble, plus Zanac dungeon master CPU brain and intriguing mass suicide antics. And them choons. Bottom Of The Fucking Wheel. Instant Replica.

[Rob]

I noticed you didn't mention Gunbird 2's music. I find it to be extremely uninspired like just about all Psikyo shooters.

Yeah, I don't particularly like it. Music is one thing in most games I don't think really matters since it can be muted/replaced.

I'm a Raiden Fighters "high-performance aircraft VS diesel-fume belching monster machines from mechanical hell to the soundtrack of a photocopier fucking a fax machine" kind of guy

Me too.

[Hagane]

but the kicker was Dimahoo. It's shit.

It isn't. It's very good.

[evil_ash_xero]

I didn't even notice this happened.

And to the guy above me, Dimahoo IS very good. I don't understand the hate.

[Hagane]

A lot of people hate on its scoring because it demands a lot of memorization (to know where items appear). The thing is, it demands a lot of technical skill to get those items too. And even leaving that aside, the shooting is very solid and challenging, and has great graphics and music.

I can understand it not being someone's cup of tea, but saying it's shit is plain wrong.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

The graphics and music are top notch. Every time I try to get into it it's just not fun to play at all. It's like someone made the shell for a game without having it tweaked out in the end to actually be fun. It's not Triangle Service, but it's not fun either, to me. Definitely one of the most disappointing shooters, to me.

[Tyranix95]

WoW! More people voted for Mars Matix, Giga Wing, and Dimahoo than Progear.

Because it's trendy right now to hate on Cave and say some other obscure shooters are better in an attempt to act like you're the elite shumpper knowing something other people don't when in reality just about everyone has tried everything else and just prefer Cave games because they are more fun.

Cave just got 19 boards, Overall, on the T25 & HM list--14 more boards than the #2 Developer (Raizing). That's 10 games on the T25 list, and 9 games on the HM list. So, how is that a hate trend. Looks like a Whole-Lot-O-Love to me. So much love it makes me wonder if CAVE games are getting all the fan boy attention and some shmupers are just buying Cave games just to pose as elite shmupers?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44687

Now way a game on the T25 & HM list is obscure. They started doing these lists, like, TEN years ago--way back in '02. And, this year, all the games on the lists got between 59~12 votes. The 2.515 // 2.513 point mark separated the T25 list from the HM list. And, unless you're new and you've never heard of the T25/HM list, then you've probably heard-of, know-of, played, or own the the games on the list(s).

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=30

Mars Matix, Giga Wing, Dimahoo, and Progear are not obscure. People have been playing these games for years, and theese games are on the T25/HM list(s).

I didn't mean to call those particular titles obscure. I've been playing them in mame for years. ...
Progear is way more fun than they are to me, but the kicker was Dimahoo. It's shit.

WoW! Ok, whatever man. You're opinion. But, imho, Dimahoo is a Damn Good Game--Hard as Hell--But Damn Good. And, like Progear, I think it's totally underrated on the T25/HM list.

The graphics and music are top notch. Every time I try to get into it it's just not fun to play at all. It's like someone made the shell for a game without having it tweaked out in the end to actually be fun. It's not Triangle Service, but it's not fun either, to me. Definitely one of the most disappointing shooters, to me.

I've found some games more fun on an arcade board. Don't know why, but I just enjoy it more that way.

Anways, try playing the game, for score, with some friends. The game get's really satisfying when your scoring multipliers kicks-in and you get a Big Bonus item.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

That's 10 games on the T25 list, and 9 games on the HM list. So, how is that a hate trend.

They made it that far despite the trend.

[Squire Grooktook]

Personal opinion here:

If Gradius V, Rayforce, G-Darius, and Einhander had all been in top 25, this would have been a near perfect list for me.

I wanna say Eschatos and Axelay too, but the former I haven't played enough of yet (I'm already considering it better then most of the stuff on the list though) and the latter is just a bit too limited and poorly balanced despite how brilliant it is otherwise (weapon balance is kinda off, a bit too short, and a bit too forgiving to the point that it has to rely on a sudden ginormous difficulty spike in order to count as a difficult game.)

[EmperorIng]

So, despite direct evidence against a 'hate trend' you take that as proof that it exists?


Don't you notice all the gushing in the current active Cave threads?

[chempop]

LOL @ the Dimahoo, MUSHA, and Gunbird 2 hate... all three are some of my faves.
I'm not going to argue with people about what games they like, knowing deep down that I'm right and they are wrong is enough for me

[Tyranix95]

... I don't remember what you voted for.

Mee too: I can't find your ballot either.

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10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Voting - CLOSED
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44216

View Posts For: Muchi Muchi Spork:
http://shmups.system11.org/search.php?s ... or_id=8556

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

So, despite direct evidence against a 'hate trend' you take that as proof that it exists?


Don't you notice all the gushing in the current active Cave threads?

I really need to remember not to enter any opinion thread on this forum, it's a recipe for disaster when you have diverse enough tastes. If I point to posts showing what I was talking about it's just going to make this go on further and like many posts on this forum, I can't believe I entered into it. You clearly don't understand what I was saying anyway and are black and whiting it into something it isn't.

LOL @ the Dimahoo, MUSHA, and Gunbird 2 hate... all three are some of my faves.
I'm not going to argue with people about what games they like, knowing deep down that I'm right and they are wrong is enough for me

I worked on one for a long time and in the end couldn't get satisfied with it. I kept revising it over and over. So I thought of keeping revising it and be able to be happy with it for next year's, but then it would be entering an opinion thread again and it's really not worth the time/effort here. It's better to just ignore opinions you disagree with. Hope I can get back and stay there.

[Hagane]

Well, when you jump in a thread accusing everyone who voted non-Cave games do so just to be trendy, and that everyone should be voting Cave because they are undeniably the best shooters out there, you should expect to get some reactions.

You just looked like a Cave fanboy from your posts, and if that's not what you meant to say then you need to word your posts better.

[EmperorIng]

I fully admit that I like to jab at Cave games, their fans, and Cave's preponderance towards lolis and wacko scoring systems every now and then - I often make it explicitly clear what type of shmups I like to play. It's a mixture of teasing and fucking around on this forum, and I really doubt anyone here really devotes all their time to hating on Cave games.

If you like every Cave game, that's ok; I'd like to remind you that DDP, DOJ, and ESPGaluda are all on my ballets of my 'favorite shmups ever' list. Just lighten up a bit, man.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Well, when you jump in a thread accusing everyone who voted non-Cave games do so just to be trendy, and that everyone should be voting Cave because they are undeniably the best shooters out there, you should expect to get some reactions.

What I wanted it to be is just directed toward "if you did this you know who you are", not everybody. But other than that I agree, I shouldn't have said anything. Definitely regretting it having to spend time writing this.

You just looked like a Cave fanboy from your posts, and if that's not what you meant to say then you need to word your posts better.

I am indeed the biggest Cave fanboy of all time. I would have quit playing games altogether a long time ago if it wasn't for Cave. But I do have issues with some of their games and don't think every one of them are better than other companies' games. For example Deathsmiles, Dangun and Pink Sweets, I have pretty big issues with. I'm also sick to death of loli teddy shit and wish they would have only used that crap in the Deathsmiles series.

[Vyxx]

I am indeed the biggest Cave fanboy of all time..

You and SuperPang should have a duel.