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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:53 pm 


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XoPachi wrote:
How do the gray medals in Darius Gaiden work? Sometimes I get 12800 other times I get 50... }:[


Ruh-ruh-ruh-random. Unfortunately. :/
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:53 am 


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BIL wrote:
XoPachi wrote:
How do the gray medals in Darius Gaiden work? Sometimes I get 12800 other times I get 50... }:[


Ruh-ruh-ruh-random. Unfortunately. :/


That pisses me off. You're pissin' me off!


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:30 am 


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Still not as bad as Metal Black's bonus rounds ;3
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:36 pm 


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There's a specific type of music I hear in this genre that I can't really describe other than "smooth". Listen to these examples.

https://youtu.be/VDdPz_itl-0
https://youtu.be/arC5tIYUViA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCjZfRgQ5x4&t=623s

Does this have like...a name? And I feel like I've heard more of this sort but I'd like more if anyone can think of anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:09 pm 


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XoPachi wrote:
There's a specific type of music I hear in this genre that I can't really describe other than "smooth". Listen to these examples.

https://youtu.be/VDdPz_itl-0
https://youtu.be/arC5tIYUViA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCjZfRgQ5x4&t=623s

Does this have like...a name? And I feel like I've heard more of this sort but I'd like more if anyone can think of anything else.


Electronic genre definitions are often tricky, the closest term from the time that you'll find is likely progressive trance, which can have a lot of overlap with progressive house. Prog trance involves a lot of ambient elements, which accounts for the 'smoothness' you're picking up on. Ambient techno-trance is another adjacent genre that will likely get you some of what you're looking for.

The Garegga title music you've linked sounds inspired by early Underworld and the general sequencer prog aesthetic of the mid 90s. When I hear it I'm reminded of various parts of the opening Juanita/Kiteless/To Dream of Love sequence on their second album (if you listen to the whole thing, you'll hear the various elements):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oYoRg6Ws9U&list=PLB935A4D28A63E1E9

That second track is more of a jazz fusion style, you still hear lower key versions of stuff like this in Japanese super markets & shopping malls.

All of the examples you linked have a particularly 90s Japanese flavour to them, so they were likely inspired by musicians I've never heard of who were in the air at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:54 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:

Electronic genre definitions are often tricky, the closest term from the time that you'll find is likely progressive trance, which can have a lot of overlap with progressive house. Prog trance involves a lot of ambient elements, which accounts for the 'smoothness' you're picking up on. Ambient techno-trance is another adjacent genre that will likely get you some of what you're looking for.

The Garegga title music you've linked sounds inspired by early Underworld and the general sequencer prog aesthetic of the mid 90s. When I hear it I'm reminded of various parts of the opening Juanita/Kiteless/To Dream of Love sequence on their second album (if you listen to the whole thing, you'll hear the various elements):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oYoRg6Ws9U&list=PLB935A4D28A63E1E9

That second track is more of a jazz fusion style, you still hear lower key versions of stuff like this in Japanese super markets & shopping malls.

All of the examples you linked have a particularly 90s Japanese flavour to them, so they were likely inspired by musicians I've never heard of who were in the air at the time.


I...wow.

Thanks a shit ton. I was half expecting no answer at all or some smarmy retort that doesn't answer a thing. This is extremely informative and helpful. I appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:25 pm 


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Used to be a member here back in the day but haven't been around since 2011 or so as life kinda got in the way of everything and I didn't have much time or a place to have a setup to play retro games. (I thought my ID was Delay but I can't seem to log in with that account anymore). Anyway I recently discovered that I still have my old Sega Saturn that I thought I sold in the mid 00's boxed up carefully packed away, sadly the games are long gone. It is a UK PAL version with no mods. I wanted to get it out and start playing some Shmups again (I was terrible back in the day but still loved having a go). I'd like to get and start playing some of the more obvious choices for the Saturn and have a couple of Q's.

1) Is it possible to create images of the original discs to run on the machine without mods or some other boot load hack?
So I did more diging/research and it seems you can do this with a boot hack on a memoery card/action replay cart, bonus.

2) Has anyone ever ordered anything from these guys? https://www.retrorepro.games/product-ca ... ga-saturn/ I'd love to be able to get some originals in time but prices are quite prohibitive at the moment for some of the Saturn shooters but I'd love the nostalgia of selecting the game from a shelf and loading it up.

3) I bought an ISIS SU 20 for about £50 just before I stopped retro gaming and sold a load of my equipment it's been sat in the box in storage for 9 years. Does anyone on here have any of the later firmware update files for one. I remember a number of people looking at getting them back when i got mine.

4) I don't have a CRT anymore and not really the space for one now. Does anyone use the Isis SU 20 to run their Saturn on a VGA monitor? I don't have any games yet to see if ti is any good or not, is it better with a scan line generator in the mix?

As you have probably gathered I'm a little rusty at all of this so please don't burn me and if anything is covered elsewhere just link me to it I'm happy to do the reading up there.

Thanks, any help is always appreciated.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:21 am 


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My friend claimed that in the end of one japanese shmup, a message says "You have completed your duties"- but did not remember what shmup it was. Doesn't ring a bell either - this is not a whole lot to go with.

Does this message ring bell with anyone? "You have completed your duties".. which shmup?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:56 am 


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Quote:
I'd love to be able to get some originals in time but prices are quite prohibitive at the moment for some of the Saturn shooters but I'd love the nostalgia of selecting the game from a shelf and loading it up.

remember that copied Saturn games won't boot on an unmodified system. You need either a modchip or a special cartridge to run such games.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:02 pm 


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Thanks @Fudoh.

I did some more research on this and realised this was going to be the case, I also found a mod kit that lets you replace the optical drive with an image loader to load from SD cards. I might have a go at getting a second Saturn to perform this hack on in the future just in case it goes wrong I don’t want to wreck the only unit I have. I’ll try and get hold of a cartridge first.
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Both of those run just fine in MAME 0.222, pal. Maybe the problem is your shit-tier hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:08 pm 


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Out of curiosity, are there any top-down games where the ship has an asymmetric design, like with the hitbox off to the side? Something like the Outrider from Star Wars where the cockpit is off to the right. I'm trying, and I honestly am struggling to think of a top-down shmup where the shmup isn't symmetrical in design.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:17 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any top-down games where the ship has an asymmetric design, like with the hitbox off to the side? Something like the Outrider from Star Wars where the cockpit is off to the right. I'm trying, and I honestly am struggling to think of a top-down shmup where the shmup isn't symmetrical in design.


Esprade comes to mind. As you move left and right, your silhouette changes and your hit-box shifts positions.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:08 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any top-down games where the ship has an asymmetric design, like with the hitbox off to the side? Something like the Outrider from Star Wars where the cockpit is off to the right. I'm trying, and I honestly am struggling to think of a top-down shmup where the shmup isn't symmetrical in design.


Interesting question. Can't think of any offhand, but tangentially, I am currently experiencing off-centered weaponry in Flak Attack (Konami, 1987). Oi! Gaffer cunts! Me fookin' bombsight is a pixel off to the right! :O

Spoiler: show
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Game's a fast-moving Xeviousesque where destruction% is directly tied to upgrades, noticed something was off straightaway while chasing down kills. Can't tell if it's an attempt at perspective as the bomb falls (the guns aren't affected), or just rough edges on otherwise solid work, as was typical of late-80s Konami.

Fairly trivial to bias left while nailing turrets, at least. Cool game with a nice crisp Top Gun Plus Lazors aesthetic. In an era of consistently strong Konami OSTs, st2 BGM COUNTER BLOW is the fieriest Toaplanesque I've heard outside of Dogosoken's CRUEL KILLERS and "Run To The Field."
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:26 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any top-down games where the ship has an asymmetric design, like with the hitbox off to the side? Something like the Outrider from Star Wars where the cockpit is off to the right. I'm trying, and I honestly am struggling to think of a top-down shmup where the shmup isn't symmetrical in design.

There are some where the hitbox is closer to the top or bottom of the ship, but off to the side I'm having trouble thinking of (not terribly surprising, it'd be kind of a pain to keep track of). Off to the side, Keio Flying Squadron is the only shmup I know of that actually lets you adjust the location of your hitbox in the options menu, though that one's a side-scroller.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:00 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any top-down games where the ship has an asymmetric design, like with the hitbox off to the side? Something like the Outrider from Star Wars where the cockpit is off to the right. I'm trying, and I honestly am struggling to think of a top-down shmup where the shmup isn't symmetrical in design.


Viper Phase 1 has animated glowing rectangle only on the right side of the ship, but the ship's actual shape and design is still symmetrical. That's the closest I can think of..


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:29 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any top-down games where the ship has an asymmetric design, like with the hitbox off to the side? Something like the Outrider from Star Wars where the cockpit is off to the right. I'm trying, and I honestly am struggling to think of a top-down shmup where the shmup isn't symmetrical in design.

There are some where the hitbox is closer to the top or bottom of the ship, but off to the side I'm having trouble thinking of (not terribly surprising, it'd be kind of a pain to keep track of). Off to the side, Keio Flying Squadron is the only shmup I know of that actually lets you adjust the location of your hitbox in the options menu, though that one's a side-scroller.


Esp.Ra De Psi lets you do it in the custom mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:22 am 


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BIL wrote:
Still not as bad as Metal Black's bonus rounds ;3

Which is the only thing that mars the otherwise excellent hori. But I kind of get them, in that 90s arcade-fun kind of way. They're not excellent shooter rounds, but they do make the game unique.

That said, I still could do without in Metal Black specifically. Maybe shoehorn them into another game.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:36 pm 



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Does what Japan call STG only refer to shoot-em-ups? What's their term for rail shooters, run n' guns (runs n' gun?), and FPSs?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:42 pm 


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I currently don't have much free time on my hands and it bothers me that I can't put much time aside from a few minutes on going after my next 1cc (hopefully it'll be Espgaluda).
I discovered that the ACA Star Force release has some kind of caravan mode or something like this that might be fun to put a few minutes a day.
So I'd like to ask some recommendations for quick games that I can play a few minutes a time and still feel that I made progress or anything, if possible.

Please forgive me if I've not made myself clear on exaclty what I'm looking for, as I'm still not sure if this kind of shmup exists. Thank you in advance.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:01 am 


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Vastynex is a love letter to Thunder Force that's honestly quite easy but still super fun because of how it's presented. Great beginner game, very cute graphics.

Zakesta is a one level shmup that's pretty fun, with a weapon system kind of like Aleste or Blazing Lasers? It's good stuff.

The Touhou "Shoot The Bullet" games are good for short play sessions as it features a bunch of smaller levels you play through individually, and are fun and unique in how they work.

Noiz2SA: 10 individual levels you play through separately, as well as endless modes.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:03 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Vastynex is a love letter to Thunder Force that's honestly quite easy but still super fun because of how it's presented. Great beginner game, very cute graphics.

Zakesta is a one level shmup that's pretty fun, with a weapon system kind of like Aleste or Blazing Lasers? It's good stuff.

The Touhou "Shoot The Bullet" games are good for short play sessions as it features a bunch of smaller levels you play through individually, and are fun and unique in how they work.

Noiz2SA: 10 individual levels you play through separately, as well as endless modes.


Thank you very much!!
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:07 am 


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No worries, let me know how you enjoy 'em. I'm struggling to think of other shmups where the gameplay is broken up into distinct chunks other than some Flash-based games like Bullet Heaven.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:12 am 



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Bawa wrote:
I currently don't have much free time on my hands and it bothers me that I can't put much time aside from a few minutes on going after my next 1cc (hopefully it'll be Espgaluda).
I discovered that the ACA Star Force release has some kind of caravan mode or something like this that might be fun to put a few minutes a day.
So I'd like to ask some recommendations for quick games that I can play a few minutes a time and still feel that I made progress or anything, if possible.

Please forgive me if I've not made myself clear on exaclty what I'm looking for, as I'm still not sure if this kind of shmup exists. Thank you in advance.


Any game where you have access to practice mode and/or save states :D

For a more serious answer, Ginga Force seemed focused on individual stages from what I played of it.

The recently released CosmoDreamer has a story mode where you also play individual stages. Finishing all stages on a particular difficulty level unlocks that difficulty level for the more traditional/arcade-style "Trial" mode. But even with the latter unlocked, it's still fun to score attack single stages.

Caravan games/modes in general, of course.

Runs of Shmups Skill Test are relatively short. And you get graded, so you can more easily watch yourself improve (if, unlike me, your skills are actually improving and not degrading...)


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:29 am 


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Ginga Force's story mode is a great suggestion, seconding that.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:16 am 


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Crisis Wing has a caravan mode.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:39 am 


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Was there any staff overlap/movement between Raizing & Psikyo? I'm playing Sōkyūgurentai and:

1. It kicks ass, I absolutely love it.

2. I can't shake the feeling that it has some Psikyo dna in it. Similar explosion sounds, the multi-stage bosses, foregrounding of individual pilots, etc. But in particular, it's the sound design that jumps out at me (not soundtrack).


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:01 am 



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Sengoku Strider wrote:
Was there any staff overlap/movement between Raizing & Psikyo? I'm playing Sōkyūgurentai and:

1. It kicks ass, I absolutely love it.

2. I can't shake the feeling that it has some Psikyo dna in it. Similar explosion sounds, the multi-stage bosses, foregrounding of individual pilots, etc. But in particular, it's the sound design that jumps out at me (not soundtrack).


Doesn't really answer your question (shame and apologies!), but try out Mahou Daisakusen if you haven't yet. Feels the most Psykio-esque of Raizing's work to me. Straightforward fun (on the surface, at least) and lotsa relatively fast, aimed bullets. Gets a mean streak when you really dig in, despite its colorful cast of characters and settings. Lotsa yellow bullets too, iirc.

As for your actual question: interested in that as well! Raizing was (supposedly) formed by ex-Toaplan and/or ex-Compile people (info on the web is confusing/conflicting about this). Pyskio, as you probably know, mostly originated from Video System. Might be interesting to see if those three progenitor devs had overlapping staff, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:13 am 


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They have no overlap at all.

Raizing is ex-Compile, I've never found any evidence on ex-Toaplan other than using Toaplan's hardware (which I believe I've seen mention was manufactured by Eighting or something strange like that? I should research that more...), unless you count Uemura writing the sound program for Bakraid (I wouldn't).
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:47 am 


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floralcateyes wrote:
Doesn't really answer your question (shame and apologies!), but try out Mahou Daisakusen if you haven't yet. Feels the most Psykio-esque of Raizing's work to me. Straightforward fun (on the surface, at least) and lotsa relatively fast, aimed bullets. Gets a mean streak when you really dig in, despite its colorful cast of characters and settings. Lotsa yellow bullets too, iirc.

As for your actual question: interested in that as well! Raizing was (supposedly) formed by ex-Toaplan and/or ex-Compile people (info on the web is confusing/conflicting about this). Pyskio, as you probably know, mostly originated from Video System. Might be interesting to see if those three progenitor devs had overlapping staff, etc.


I understand what you mean, I actually thought it was a Psikyo game for the longest time (some compilation video on Youtube got me crossed up), it gives off Gunbird vibes. I'm not sure why that hasn't been the thing the shmup community tried to put forward for speed running/AGQ, but I don't own it yet so I can't say. It's on the list though.

trap15 wrote:
They have no overlap at all.

Raizing is ex-Compile, I've never found any evidence on ex-Toaplan ... unless you count Uemura writing the sound program for Bakraid (I wouldn't).


I did find this really interesting podcast transcript that goes through the entire history of Toaplan, with staff interviews. Apparently they were all drunk the whole time:

http://tenpencearcade.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/TPAToaplanSpecial.pdf

This is the relevant section:

-----------------

Toaplan personnel helped found four new shooter-centric game development companies.

Gazelle
Takumi
Eighting / Raizing Cave

Gazelle

Tatsuya Uemura, Junya Inoue, Mikio Yamaguchi, Kaneyo Oohira, and Yoshitatsu Sakai formed Gazelle and released Air Gallet and Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon for Banpresto before that company crashed.
Inoue: A couple of us Toaplan staff (most of them were from the BATSUGUN team) were selected by our boss to be transferred to another company, which turned out to be Gazelle. We weren’t able to quite get along with Gazelle staff, so we eventually left the company one by one.

Takumi

Masahiro Yuge and Sanae Nito, along with several new hires, created Kyukyoku Tiger II and released it through Taito as Takumi. Masahiro Yuge also worked on Giga Wing and Mars Matrix before leaving Takumi.

Eighting (sales & dist) / Raizing (development).

When Uemura left Gazelle he did sound programming for Battle Bakraid and assisted on Great Mahou Daisakusen.
After Yuge left Takumi he contributed to Great Mahou Daisakusen at Eighting and more recently designed Kuru Kuru Kururin, also for Eighting.
Raizing continued to use Toaplan version 2 hardware in making their games, starting with Mahou Daisekusen (Sorcer Striker), along with Battle Garegga, Armed Police Batrider, right up to Battle Bakraid, released in 1999.


--------------------

There's also this fantastic interview, where they mention that Toaplan staff gave them a bunch of advice when they were making Mahou Daisakusen; from the sound of things they all hung out:

http://shmuplations.com/raizing/

Quote:
...other than using Toaplan's hardware (which I believe I've seen mention was manufactured by Eighting or something strange like that? I should research that more...)


I believe this is what you're looking for:

https://gamerepair.info/hardware/29_raizing_toaplan_2

-------------------------------

Raizing Toaplan 2
Raizing (1993-1999)


"Toaplan 2" is an umbrella term referring to games which utilize Toaplan's second-generation chipset. As Raizing made their own expansions to this hardware, "Raizing Toaplan 2" is an appropriate designation for these variants.

Each game makes their own specific additions to the hardware, but all have the earmarks of Raizing's additions. The most immediately noticeable change is the addition of a superimposed text plane, freeing up the GP9001's "text" layer to render normal graphics instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:54 am 


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No, I specifically meant manufacturing the hardware for Toaplan while Toaplan existed.

Also, Bakraid and Dimahoo are from 1999 and 2000 respectively, so I think it's a little weird to say Raizing was formed by ex-Toaplan when their direct contributions were at least 6 years after their first game.
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