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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:05 am 



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
Posts: 189
FRO wrote:
steveovig wrote:
Are there any other games with a buzzing mechanic like Shiki or Psyvariar or Sisters Royale?


Not sure about buzzing, but if you mean grazing, Danmaku Unlimited 3 does, as well as Graze Counter. There are several Touhou games that apparently use grazing as a mechanic, as well.



Bee Storm (DoDonpachi 3?) relies on this mechanic as well on hard mode (I.R)


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:20 am 



Joined: 25 Sep 2019
Posts: 48
Hello,

This is one I have been struggling with for a while.

What's the first shooter that lets you push-scroll freely in any direction in some finite or infinite area, and also come to a rest almost immediately at any time (i.e. no (or very limited) inertia or gravity)?

I'm talking about things like:

Metal stoker
Firemen
Granada
etc.

I am not talking about things like Senjou no Okami 2 or Valkyrie no Densetsu, where your push-scrolling is, in some ways, railed.

Nor am I talking about things like Berzerk, where there is no actual scrolling.

I am also not talking about things like Bosconian or Thunder Force where your scrolling is automatic, and you can't stop.

Hover Attack is really cool, and an early specimen that almost fits the bill, but it has gravity.

Finally, I am not talking about things like Defender where scrolling is limited to one axis.

The earliest I have found is:

Dandy - the Gauntlet predecessor for Atari 8-bit computers (released to the market in 1983, but to the public in 1982 as part of a PhD thesis).
Boomer Rang'r - A 1983 Data East game.

Also, aside from the first game of this type, what would have been the first popular game of this type in Japan?


Last edited by Licorice on Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:33 am 


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Does UPL's Nova 2001 (1983) count?

Unsure of its popularity, but it's got an Arcade Archives release. Image I quite enjoy it, reminds me of Robotron X Granada. I wish its sequel, Ark Area, had kept its control method (free movement by default / hold Button 2 to strafe.... AA inverts this so you hold the button to move freely, feels odd).
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:49 am 



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BIL wrote:
Does UPL's Nova 2001 (1983) count?

Unsure of its popularity, but it's got an Arcade Archives release. Image I quite enjoy it, reminds me of Robotron X Granada. I wish its sequel, Ark Area, had kept its control method (free movement by default / hold Button 2 to strafe.... AA inverts this so you hold the button to move freely, feels odd).

Yes it certainly does.

That would also be the first I know of where you can lock your shooting direction. Which seems to be a sub-sub-sub-genre separator.

One difference from later games like Firemen and Granada is there are no obstacles, which is unusual.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:41 am 


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Somewhat related, I'm hoping NMK's Valtric (1986) gets an ACA release at some point. Seems likely enough, with all the Jaleco-published stuff on there, and Hamster having the rights to NMK's catalogue. (I'm always mixing up UPL and NMK's output... stylish, cult-fave, three-initialled cats. I spent a few minutes wondering why it wasn't appearing in the former's catalogue :oops:)

It's the earliest example I know of Granada-style scrolling tank action, looks badass. Spoken of highly by several knowledgeable chaps on here. I know Granada's director Toshio Toyota cites Grobda (single-screen) as an influence on that game, but I need the scrolling battlefield for that distinct tactical topdown tanker feel.

EDIT: oh, and he cites Assault too, of course. Doh, how'd I forget. I've never quite considered it and Granada the same, with its distinctive rotation mechanic. I guess it's much nearer Granada than Valtric, though, with the free-scrolling stages. AFAIK Valtric is vert-only.

Good to see The Firemen mentioned, btw! Superb arcade-styled seek and destroy. Doesn't seem to often get mentioned in Granada and Metal Stoker's company, but it should be.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:59 am 



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Tank and pedestrian shooters are a really interesting and diverse sub-genre for sure. Especially with how they handle the fundamentals of scrolling, movement, etc.

Especially because they're not so common, and by 1985 you can always find some precedent somewhere for one of the observed ingredients, even if you can't find the same combination.

It's not at all like how every "flying" shmup has a clear ancestry in Xevious and Scramble.

On the topic of Valtric, I think you might be able to consider Mega Zone (first inverse Xevious I know of, sorta) and Regulus (first separate turret and directional fire I know of) its fore-bearers.

Both of those are auto-scrollers though, so maybe it's more appropriate to call them ancestors of Guardian Force.

TNK III fits my initial description, which brings it closer to Granada, and also predates Valtric (and Assault!).


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:12 am 


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That's another big one I missed! :o TNK III indeed far predates Assault for the Granada-esque action. Lately I've been mentally associating it with the first two Ikaris, all three being LS-30 rotary games starring RARUFU, though its eight-way scrolling sets it well apart from them (among many other details, like Ikari I/II's on-foot action being a lot slower and more methodical than TNK's relatively zippy tank).

Seems excellent from my few credits with it. Been casually enjoying its Famicom sequel Great Tank for years now, but the slight language barrier always made me put it off for another day. Although Ikari, Dogosoken and Jackal (arcade version) are all vertical-scrolling only, I love how these games all use one contiguous map, rather than discrete stages. Makes them feel like coin-operated mini-epics, especially with the need to manually trek upscreen (with the looming threat of an air-strike for tarrying, in the Ikaris' cases).

Licorice wrote:
Especially because they're not so common, and by 1985 you can always find some precedent somewhere for one of the observed ingredients, even if you can't find the same combination.


On that subject, I've been wondering lately if Taito's Front Line (1982) is the genesis of what I'd previously credited to Senjou no Okami: vertical push-scrolling, with an eight-way shot on Button 1, and vertical-locked (but terrain-bypassing) grenades on Button 2. I'd gotten used to thinking of Kiki Kaikai (1986) as a Senjou riff, with its own shot/alt push-scrolling, but it seems Capcom may have been the imitators all along, haha.

Front Line also seems to have prefigured the similarly iconic Ikari with its eight-way rotary controls and, most of all, hijackable tanks (Senjou only getting around to vehicles in its sequel). Taito already have seismic oldschool cred via Space Invaders, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised if they were similarly instrumental to the topdown run/gun subgenre.

Drum, a sadly long-absent poster, used to be really into this stuff. I bet he'd know some cool late-70s/very early-80s picks.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:50 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2020
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What are some games that simultaneously have milking + patterns that scale with time/repetition or soft timeouts? The only ones I know of are Guwange, the Shikigami no Shiro series and the occasional Touhou pattern. None of them fully embrace the concept although Guwange's stage 2 and 3 bosses are pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:19 am 



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Is there any way to practice the stages or bosses in Cho Ren Sha 68K?

I'm playing the X68000 version in an emulator through retroarch, but it doesn't support save states.

I've got the game down pretty solid through the first 5 stages but it'd be nice to single out some of the areas in stage 6 and 7.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:28 am 



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Just edited I found it. Really early in the morning for me :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:54 am 


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Is Aka Blue getting any sort of home port? This touch screen shit is for the birds and Exa is obviously not an option for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:55 am 



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XoPachi wrote:
Is Aka Blue getting any sort of home port? This touch screen shit is for the birds and Exa is obviously not an option for me.


In the long run probably a home switch port wich is the safer bet for indi programmers. We have seen it already with other cell phone games.
The question is when, but that is another story.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:51 pm 


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Does the Switch port of Strikers III include the option to play as the X-36?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:45 pm 


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Are there any good shmups that don't have a soundtrack?
Sounds like a silly question, I know, but I'm at a point in my development cycle where I have to choose between sound effects or just a soundtrack -- I don't have a budget for both unfortunately.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:42 pm 


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I don't know any with zero BGM whatsoever, but R-Type Final uses long stretches of simple ambient sound to good effect. Depends on the mood you're going for, I guess - could see it working in a horror/sci-fi setting like RTF's, especially if the SFX are striking/chilling enough. Much less in a triumphal tale of glory like Winds of Thunder.

I was actually playing Raiden V with the BGM off the other day, having always loved Moss's formidable explosion SFX. Wasting a sniper tank platoon sounds quite literally thunderous. Definitely looked a bit weird when the camera would zoom in as the ship dramatically blasted off to the next stage sector though!
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:29 pm 



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Just FYI, there are whole freeware libraries of sound effects for all purposes out there. Freeware music is a thing too but much more limited so it makes more sense to spend funds on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:56 pm 


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Good points, thanks for the feedback!
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:47 am 


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Please tell me there is SOME way to play Aka/Blue mobile with a gamepad.


Last edited by XoPachi on Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:45 pm 


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What are some good PC shmups outside of Steam? So far I know only about Battle Traverse and Rolling Gunner.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:43 pm 


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Arthandas wrote:
What are some good PC shmups outside of Steam? So far I know only about Battle Traverse and Rolling Gunner.

Check out Jishou no Chihei Mendako, aka Flying Pancake Octopus in Blackhole.

It's in the Space Invaders style, but it's one of the few games of that style that feels fresh, fast-paced, and exciting. Pretty accommodating difficulty as well. Even better, it's freeware! Check out the thread.

The same dev made Cambria Sword, which I haven't played but has its fans here. Its caveat is that it's more of a epic, epic-length shmup (I think a full run is 3 hours?). I suspect its meant to be played in chunks, not a single sitting. Flying Pancake is more arcade length.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:49 pm 


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Arthandas wrote:
What are some good PC shmups outside of Steam? So far I know only about Battle Traverse and Rolling Gunner.


Blue Wish Resurrection and Eden's Aegis are a good place to start. Both are free doujin danmaku, and are both of high quality. If you like classic shmups, Super Hydorah is on itch.io, as well, and has a lot of Gradius and Darius influence. And for classic PC shmups, both Tyrian 2000 and Stargunner are free on GOG.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:17 pm 



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Arthandas wrote:
What are some good PC shmups outside of Steam? So far I know only about Battle Traverse and Rolling Gunner.

In addition to what everyone else said, my personal favorite free shmup is Cho Ren Sha 68k. It is frenetic and filled with macrododging.


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:41 pm 



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So been playing a lot battle garrega ps4,I’m playing it in Tate.does any one know if you can display the rank graph at the top or bottom?


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:49 pm 


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Ddshot wrote:
So been playing a lot battle garrega ps4,I’m playing it in Tate.does any one know if you can display the rank graph at the top or bottom?

Yep, there are widgets for tate mode too, you just need to re-enable them after setting the display to tate mode. I don't remember if there's an actual rank graph, but you can see the rank percentage at the very least.
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:29 pm 


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Arthandas wrote:
What are some good PC shmups outside of Steam? So far I know only about Battle Traverse and Rolling Gunner.


Check out this guy's quality freeware shmups: http://zakichi.ojaru.jp/
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:37 am 


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In Gradius II, is the Option Hunter would appear some times after you have got the 4th Options?

In other words, if I don't get the 4th options (stay with three), the Option Hunters would never appears?
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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:05 pm 


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^ Correct - basically, when you get the fourth Option, a timer starts ticking down to the Option Hunter's appearance. That's how it works in Gradius V anyway... pretty sure II is the the same.
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 Post subject: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:53 am 



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CloudyMusic wrote:
Ddshot wrote:
So been playing a lot battle garrega ps4,I’m playing it in Tate.does any one know if you can display the rank graph at the top or bottom?

Yep, there are widgets for tate mode too, you just need to re-enable them after setting the display to tate mode. I don't remember if there's an actual rank graph, but you can see the rank percentage at the very least.
Hi cloudy,i think I am being blind because I can’t seem to find it on any of the options??do you know which option it is,I’m also using google translate so I wonder if thats why can’t find it


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:42 pm 



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Ddshot wrote:
CloudyMusic wrote:
Ddshot wrote:
So been playing a lot battle garrega ps4,I’m playing it in Tate.does any one know if you can display the rank graph at the top or bottom?

Yep, there are widgets for tate mode too, you just need to re-enable them after setting the display to tate mode. I don't remember if there's an actual rank graph, but you can see the rank percentage at the very least.
Hi cloudy,i think I am being blind because I can’t seem to find it on any of the options??do you know which option it is,I’m also using google translate so I wonder if thats why can’t find it


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 Post subject: Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:37 pm 


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Does anyone know if it's possible to extract the rom from the Steam version of Judgement Silversword or to play it in an unfiltered resolution with properly scaled pixels?


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