Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Edmond Dantes · Joined: 01 Sep 2011 Posts: 995

Squire Grooktook wrote:

Does the Reduce shield in Gradius III SNES actually reduce hitbox size, or does it just reduce sprite size to better represent the hitbox?

I'm pretty sure it actually reduces hitbox size. In my experience with Gradius, the ship IS the hitbox (but you guys would probably know more than I do).

Skykid · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17556 Location: Planet Dust Asia

BulletMagnet wrote:

Skykid wrote:

Can someone please explain the differences between PSX Gekioh Shooting King, PSX Shienryu and Saturn Shienryu. Trying to find definitive info on why all these versions exist and how they differ is mind boggling! I can't tell which are re-releases (Best ofs) either.

To the best of my knowledge, Shienryu on the Saturn is the most "arcade accurate" of the bunch (and saves high scores), but includes only the base game. The PS1 version (which, IIRC, was localized as "Geki-Oh Shooting King") has a bunch of other modes in it (most are silly graphical reskins, but a few are kinda interesting), though it also suffers from some increased slowdown (and, at least in the US release, doesn't save high scores). To top all that off, there's also the "Double Shienryu" budget release on the PS2, which packages the game (which is pretty close to the arcade original, but again doesn't save scores) with pseudo-sequel "Shienryu Explosion" (which was released in Europe as "Steel Dragon EX", though supposedly it's a pretty poor localization).

Lordy.

Here's what I don't get: Geki-Oh Shooting King is a Japanese release (I'm note sure about the localisation, but it definitely came out in Japan under the same name.) The only Shienryu I ever seem to find on PSX is a 'best' release. :idea:

Do you have a source for increased slowdown on PSX? Only thing I found was that Geki-Oh has poorer music quality and no score saves. Also, the PSX versions lose some graphical transparency on certain sections.

Why so many versions, confusing!

nZero · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 2565 Location: DC Area

Skykid wrote:

Here's what I don't get: Geki-Oh Shooting King is a Japanese release (I'm note sure about the localisation, but it definitely came out in Japan under the same name.) The only Shienryu I ever seem to find on PSX is a 'best' release. :idea:

Original release for PS1 was Gekioh Shienryu with a little 撃王 inside the O of Gekioh. Localized for North America by Natsume as Gekioh Shooting King. Rereleased in Japan as part of Hamster's budget PS1 line as Arcade Hits: Shienryu. They should all be identical to each other. Among the other flaws such as reduced graphic fidelity and no score/option saving, they also lack any tate mode. The only reason to go with any of them over the Saturn or PS2 ports is the low price and the brief novelty provided by the extra modes.

MOSQUITO FIGHTER · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 1578

Why do shmups have so much phallic imagery?

Squire Grooktook · Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Posts: 5811

Edmond Dantes wrote:

Squire Grooktook wrote:

Does the Reduce shield in Gradius III SNES actually reduce hitbox size, or does it just reduce sprite size to better represent the hitbox?

In my experience with Gradius, the ship IS the hitbox (but you guys would probably know more than I do).

Almost, the "fangs" generally don't count, and maybe a slight bit of the thrusters in the back too. In general Konami shmups have hitboxes that are even on all sides, so if the ship is somewhat lengthy then part of it will be invulnerable.

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:

Why do shmups have so much phallic imagery?

Because it's scary. Just ask H.R Giger.

Skykid · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17556 Location: Planet Dust Asia

nZero wrote:

Skykid wrote:

Here's what I don't get: Geki-Oh Shooting King is a Japanese release (I'm note sure about the localisation, but it definitely came out in Japan under the same name.) The only Shienryu I ever seem to find on PSX is a 'best' release. :idea:

Original release for PS1 was Gekioh Shienryu with a little 撃王 inside the O of Gekioh. Localized for North America by Natsume as Gekioh Shooting King. Rereleased in Japan as part of Hamster's budget PS1 line as Arcade Hits: Shienryu. They should all be identical to each other. Among the other flaws such as reduced graphic fidelity and no score/option saving, they also lack any tate mode. The only reason to go with any of them over the Saturn or PS2 ports is the low price and the brief novelty provided by the extra modes.

That clears things up enormously, thanks so much. And dang, no tate mode, that's the suck right there.

Thanks for the help.

MOSQUITO FIGHTER · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 1578

Did the Einhander team make any other games?

Pallerå · Joined: 06 Mar 2013 Posts: 35 Location: Finland

After being interested in DFK and Futari Black for a while, I'd like to ask recommendations to more modern STG's. Wouldn't make a thread out of this.

By modern i mean like the games where you see your own hitbox, they feel like the enemies shoot you and not the other way, and maybe have a proper console release (240 x 320 is pretty rough up close). I guess the word for them would be "bullet hell" but that reminds me of touhou which i will not even consider touching.

I've tried some more Cave games, namely DDP Maximum and some older games which work in that build of mame with SH3 support, and i will buy Akai Katana and SDOJ as soon as i figure out what to do with my xbox that RROD'd 15 minutes after i bought DFK BL dlc

Edmond Dantes · Joined: 01 Sep 2011 Posts: 995

As much as I admire the intent here, I think this thread is a bad idea.

It seems like what happens is people's questions get buried and have a strong possibility of going unanswered. So maybe a more accurate title would be "shmup questions you have but don't care if you ever get an answer."

I mean I almost missed dude's Gradius III question completely.

Squire Grooktook · Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Posts: 5811

The thread is fine. Part of it is just that some of these questions are a bit obscure and very few people may be able to answer them confidently.

KAI · **Posted:** Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:13 pm

@Pallerå, try Bullet Soul.

BIL · Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 13884 Location: COLONY

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:

Why do shmups have so much phallic imagery?

Because IREM kickstarted the dicks arms race in the last years of the cold war. Now you can't even leaf through a soundtrack booklet without surprise dick attacks.

Skykid · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17556 Location: Planet Dust Asia

Edmond Dantes wrote:

As much as I admire the intent here, I think this thread is a bad idea.

Page 5 is a great time to let us know.

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:

Did the Einhander team make any other games?

If they did, they weren't STG's. I couldn't say for sure but I always imagine Square's brief but interesting PSX departure from RPG's went hand in hand. Perhaps the same guys did Internal Section?

Squire Grooktook · Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Posts: 5811

BIL wrote:

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:

Why do shmups have so much phallic imagery?

Because IREM kickstarted the dicks arms race in the last years of the cold war. Now you can't even leaf through a soundtrack booklet without surprise dick attacks.

Holy crap, that's some nice R-Type artwork there. I especially love the way Cyst/Gommander's eye is kinda seething there. Thanks for showing this.

BIL · Joined: 10 May 2007 Posts: 13884 Location: COLONY

You're welcome Squire, always glad to share the Irem body horror love! Here's the album's VGMDB page. (somewhat annoyingly I think you need to be registered to view the full gallery - worth it though, the scans are pretty huge res)

Aquas · Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1569 Location: Minnesota, USA

Skykid wrote:

Guwange has rank, right? How severe is it depending on how hard you score? Curious, b/c I always found it a tougher clear compared to most Cave games, but then I'm always attempting to score heavily by chaining from the outset (and boss milking where possible).

Pretty sure it's static rank. Some of the spray bullet patterns that require reflex dodging will put you for a spin, though. Just remember, if you can get to stage 6, you have full health awaiting you in the spiders section.

Skykid · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17556 Location: Planet Dust Asia

Aquas wrote:

Skykid wrote:

Guwange has rank, right? How severe is it depending on how hard you score? Curious, b/c I always found it a tougher clear compared to most Cave games, but then I'm always attempting to score heavily by chaining from the outset (and boss milking where possible).

Pretty sure it's static rank. Some of the spray bullet patterns that require reflex dodging will put you for a spin, though. Just remember, if you can get to stage 6, you have full health awaiting you in the spiders section.

The amount of times I've died trying to get that stupid hamper lol. Thanks for the info, although I'm not too sure how static rank differs from regular rank (score versus lives lost etc) :oops:

trap15 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:31 pm

It's probably similar to Ketsui, where the majority of rank is based on how long the credit has been running. Basically, you're probably not going to be able to control the rank.

Skykid · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17556 Location: Planet Dust Asia

trap15 wrote:

It's probably similar to Ketsui, where the majority of rank is based on how long the credit has been running. Basically, you're probably not going to be able to control the rank.

Ah I see!

Squire Grooktook · Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Posts: 5811

Is the XBLA port of Triggerheart Excellica of acceptable quality?

Is it true that Under Defeat Hd on PSN or XBLA has input delay?

oboewan42 · Joined: 10 Nov 2012 Posts: 116 Location: Ohioland

What's the default extend rate for RSG? The XBLA port lets you set the extend rate but there's no "reset to defaults" button.

Crazy Climber · Joined: 05 Mar 2013 Posts: 50

Is there a link or two out there with tips/videos to improve my Deathsmiles game? I can do a 1cc with rosa on level 1 so I would say I'm slightly advancing past noob (several hundred games later, lol)
...but still could use some tips/tricks to get my score up and become better with the other girls (casper especially) some vids would be nice, I plan on getting the superplay DVD's with the cave boxset but I have a feeling those will be insanity levels/etc..

Skykid · Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 17556 Location: Planet Dust Asia

Squire Grooktook wrote:

Is the XBLA port of Triggerheart Excellica of acceptable quality?

Is it true that Under Defeat Hd on PSN or XBLA has input delay?

I've never heard of any gripes about the XBLA version. There's a high school piece in the reviews section with some dude gushing all over it. You probably won't find the info you're looking for, but it might be in there somewhere.

Don't buy Under Defeat HD for the original arcade game. It's pretty fucked on both console versions. If you just want New Order mode, the PS3 version is region free whereas the 360 isn't, but suffers additional slowdown (Kobayashi's diagnosis.)

Kobayashi wrote:

I own the PS3 version, but unfortunately, after playing a lot and watching many videos I verified that this version has a ridiculous amount of slowdowns as the video below (made by me) shows quite clearly (as for example from 03:06)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-2PZ1eOi48

From what I could observe in Youtube's videos, the Xbox 360 version has much less slowdows, so I think it's the best HD version of this game.

Squire Grooktook · Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Posts: 5811

Okay, I'll probably keep XBLA in mind for the Triggerheart and Dreamcast for Under Defeat.

nZero · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 2565 Location: DC Area

Squire Grooktook wrote:

Is the XBLA port of Triggerheart Excellica of acceptable quality?

Missed this. There are some differences compared to the original and the Dreamcast port. Upgraded visuals, a couple of the bosses behave differently, and the way the scoring system works has been changed/simplified. There's nothing in particular wrong with it, but it's not directly comparable to the original arcade game. It's also the cheapest version of the game by far, which counts for a lot.

Squire Grooktook · Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Posts: 5811

Would you say it's a better game or worse off for these changes?

nZero · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 2565 Location: DC Area

Squire Grooktook wrote:

Would you say it's a better game or worse off for these changes?

Neither, just different. Having played the original a lot both in the Arcade and on the Dreamcast, I don't personally like the dumbing down of the scoring system, but it doesn't really hurt the game just changes the high-scoring method. Avoid the PS2 port though, it's awful, riddled with slowdown.

Tyjet · Joined: 20 Aug 2010 Posts: 328 Location: Gilverado

Someone explain to me why in Cave's games, the On Screen Display flickers when there is too much "action" going on?

Example:
When you turn bullets to x30000 in Mushihimesama Futari BL, the OSD disappears briefly. Why does this happen?

trap15 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:07 am

The hardware (or in the ports' cases, the simulated hardware) has a fixed limit on how many objects can be displayed at once.

Rather than not displaying important things like bullets, it stops drawing the HUD instead.

Pallerå · Joined: 06 Mar 2013 Posts: 35 Location: Finland

NES all over again, two decades later.

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