Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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M.Knight
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by M.Knight »

Good point!

Given the games listed, I suppose that would be the Dremcast versions.
For instance, out of all three, only Radirgy's Dreamcast version properly saves hi-scores, and IIRC, Chaos Field's Dreamcast port has as much slowdown as the original arcade version which should be a positive but the arcade version' slowdown was pretty excessive.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Stevens »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Which system are you considering getting the game for? The ports of each vary in quality and features, so that might factor into what gets recommended.
Whoops. Should have clarified - Dreamcast.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I've never loved chaining in my shooters, so based on that I think Radirgy will be my first choice. Since it was mentioned I've always loved JSR's graphics.

I will have a little extra $$ coming in so I may have the option of picking up Chaos Field as well in spite of what I just said. I do dig its style and soundtrack.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Does anyone have a copy of the soundtrack to Leiria -Stargazer-? It has great music, but I'd have to rip the music to MP3s manually. I can't find the soundtrack anywhere online and I'm not sure what format the game's DAT file is (if it's extractable).
xxx1993

Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

Does Ginga Force have any credits or continues of some sort? If so, is there also Free Play?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

I remember hearing Blast Wind was like a more serious Eco Fighters. How is that? Is Blast Wind environmental-themed like Eco Fighters? Because I always thought Eco Fighters was much more environmental than any other game out there.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BulletMagnet »

xxx1993 wrote:I remember hearing Blast Wind was like a more serious Eco Fighters.
Where in the world did you hear that?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by XoPachi »

Is there like...an optimal way to record Crimzon Clover? This game has some awful resolution options and it makes videos look REALLY bad. The best way I like to record videos is in windowed mode since no game likes being alt+tabbed (I mess up a lot and have to rerecord so it's just easier). But what is this weird laptop resolution for World Ignition? This game wasn't made in 2004. Well whatever. For anyone who might have done videos on this, help a beginner out.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I'll test it out and see if I can help. I recently picked up a paid copy of Fraps which, surprisingly, has been able to detect and record games fullscreen without stuttering some games which both OBS Studio and Virtualdub refused to record except in a slower windowed mode. It cannot be used to stream games live, but works great for recording almost anything. The only game it can't do is Solid State Survivor, simply not detected.

Fraps does have two downsides though - the files it makea are massive (as in 30 GB for a full run or possibly more depending on resolution), and it uses proprietary codecs to record, so you generally need other software to convert it to a compressed format such as MP4 prior to uploading.

edit: Fraps appears to work fine. Didn't detect the game initially when run at 1920x1080 fullscreen, but switching the game resolution to the same as its native high resolution got the FPS counter for Fraps to pop up, which says it's ready to record. Just got a quick 60 FPS movie done, 2 GB filesize for one minute, but recorded silky smooth. I'm still messing with the best way to get it into an MP4 format from there - VLC's built-in converter craps out on any conversion I try (one file it always failed at 3 minutes, 17 seconds on multiple attempts) and the built in Movie Maker in Windows murders the video quality and framerate. I don't have a paid copy of something like Adobe Premiere Pro, so I'm messing with VirtualDub which I've used before to see if that'll work.

OK, here's one that was recorded at CC: World Ignition's native 1280x768 resolution with Fraps, full reprocessed with VirtualDub using two-pass Xvid codec at 8000 kbps bitrate target, 128 kbps MP3 audio:

https://youtu.be/CONNJspyoC0

Got it to do 720p 60FPS easily, nice and small filesize. Only thing you need to buy is Fraps, which is worth it IMO.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Bananamatic »

fraps is hot garbage
could never make it work without dropping to 30 fps for no reason (and going back to 60 the moment you reset the recording)

the whole issue with CCWI is that it has a retarded amount of effects even compared to AAA games making it near impossible to stream at a decent quality (and even youtube murders the quality despite your 8k bitrate encode looking fine) unless you're some kind of encoding wizard with special settings
try upscaling the video to 4k, it seems to force youtube to use more bitrate despite doing nothing to the quality
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:OK, here's one that was recorded at CC: World Ignition's native 1280x768 resolution with Fraps, full reprocessed with VirtualDub using two-pass Xvid codec at 8000 kbps bitrate target, 128 kbps MP3 audio:

https://youtu.be/CONNJspyoC0

Got it to do 720p 60FPS easily, nice and small filesize. Only thing you need to buy is Fraps, which is worth it IMO.
now record one on unlimited mode with constant full screen flashing from bullet cancels and star effects and watch the quality go to shit
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Uh, I think maybe Fraps just didn't like your video card? What resolution were you recording at...? I'm on a pretty awful GeForce 210 here, and even on Unlimited mode Stage 5 I only dropped down to about 50 FPS when it got crazy with cancels and breaking (and you don't need to record live runs on World Ignition, you can save a replay if it's an issue).

It's also recorded at fullspeed demanding 3D games that I never have been able to record with before so Fraps shouldn't have any inherent overhead itself.

I don't know about streaming because I don't stream to Twitch or anything, but as far as recording, Fraps works 100% fine for me. I can try messing with uploading a test to Youtube but I'm pretty sure what I've got would be enjoyably watchable (if I weren't garbage at Unlimited mode, lol).

For kicks I tried lowering the bitrate, it should probably be at 12000 for the video instead of 6000 but even with the bitrate below the recommended settings it still seems pretty watchable in 720P quality (the rain effect makes the stage look washed out in recordings):
https://youtu.be/_brG9fVyNfY

and yes I'm aware I suck at Unlimited mode, lol

As long as you remember to set the FPS to 60 under the video options for Fraps (and the free/unpaid version may be capped at 30 FPS...?) it should be fine unless Fraps hates your graphics card or something.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

BulletMagnet wrote:
xxx1993 wrote:I remember hearing Blast Wind was like a more serious Eco Fighters.
Where in the world did you hear that?
I think I heard it from a YouTube comment or something... But I definitely heard that quote from someone. The real question is how is it like Eco Fighters?
xxx1993

Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

Also, about Ginga Force, does it have Free Play the more you play? Or are there no credits?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by christmascameearly »

I've never played the Zeal games, they're on sale right now and I wanna try one out. Which one should I get? XIIZEAL, Trizeal, ExZeal and Delta Zeal are on sale.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by XoPachi »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Uh, I think maybe Fraps just didn't like your video card? What resolution were you recording at...? I'm on a pretty awful GeForce 210 here, and even on Unlimited mode Stage 5 I only dropped down to about 50 FPS when it got crazy with cancels and breaking (and you don't need to record live runs on World Ignition, you can save a replay if it's an issue).

It's also recorded at fullspeed demanding 3D games that I never have been able to record with before so Fraps shouldn't have any inherent overhead itself.

I don't know about streaming because I don't stream to Twitch or anything, but as far as recording, Fraps works 100% fine for me. I can try messing with uploading a test to Youtube but I'm pretty sure what I've got would be enjoyably watchable (if I weren't garbage at Unlimited mode, lol).

For kicks I tried lowering the bitrate, it should probably be at 12000 for the video instead of 6000 but even with the bitrate below the recommended settings it still seems pretty watchable in 720P quality (the rain effect makes the stage look washed out in recordings):
https://youtu.be/_brG9fVyNfY

and yes I'm aware I suck at Unlimited mode, lol

As long as you remember to set the FPS to 60 under the video options for Fraps (and the free/unpaid version may be capped at 30 FPS...?) it should be fine unless Fraps hates your graphics card or something.
My computer is too weak for Fraps. I tried it years ago.
Honestly, my PC might be too weak for any good recording anyway. All the short vids I've done that weren't Mega Man Zero 3 are kinda fuzzy. :c
But not as fuzzy as the recent CC video I tried to make. Recording it in OBS was fine until I saw the end result and it was much worse than usual despite me not changing my bitrate. I figured it was because I had OBS set to 1080 and CC caps at a much lower native resolution. I also forced the window to be larger because I sort of needed to see what I was doing. This is why I asked what I could do differently because this game makes it really hard to do so. I'm not trying to do full runs or anything.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by LordHypnos »

Re: screen capture
Can't speak for CC:WI specifically, but I have used ffmpeg for screen capture purposes many times even with full screen (usually 640x480 resolution) with no issues (just edit out the part before you open the game. I've also never had issues with alt-tabbing into games, though). Usually I go with libx264 for video, preset ultra fast, and crf 0 for recording, then compress it down by changing the crf to 20 or so. FFMpeg can be a little daunting because of commandline, but it's not to bad once you get used to it. Also can be used for editing the video afterward (usually just trimming, compressing, re-encoding, resizing, etc. rather than fancy stuff like annotations, though).

I have an FFMpeg screen capture frontend for windows that is also free, but I don't think gives you as many options, but the quality and framerate seemed fine, and it outputted an mp4 with standard h264 video and aac audio which youtube likes. It's called Screen Capture Recorder. Handbrake seems to do some things poorly (like deinterlacing), but it is a free video editing software as well (I think it's also an FFMpeg frontend, but I might be wrong about that). Still makes stuff like cropping a lot easier compared to raw ffmpeg. My graphics card is probably the worst of all of you, because it's an aging Intel integrated HD Graphics.

A couple of caveats are that I almost always do just 30fps and have mostly done full screen recording in linux. Last time I used Screen Capture Recorder was with Vastynex v0.6, and I did that in windowed, 640x480 mode because it saves replays, and I don't want to deal with higher resolution videos than I have to.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

XoPachi wrote:All the short vids I've done that weren't Mega Man Zero 3 are kinda fuzzy
Can you post a screenshot of the recording output settings in OBS Studio? What recording settings are in OBS? Specifically looking for the screens that shows the bitrate and preset recording speed setting, the one that shows resolution, and the one that shows the framerate.

Also, when you're recording, are you using Game Capture or Window Capture? If you can get the game to be detected with the Game Capture method it'll be considerably faster, whereas Window Capture works more reliably in terms of being able to actually capture the video, but is a slower capture method.
XoPachi wrote:I figured it was because I had OBS set to 1080 and CC caps at a much lower native resolution.
Are we talking about Crimzon Clover, the original doujin version, or Crimzon Clover: World Ignition, the rerelease?

World Ignition can be setup to run at 1920x1080, upscaled higher than its native resolution. The original doujin version runs at a lower resolution which I can't remember what it is.

OBS Studio should be able to record at whatever native res you're working with, even lower resolutions. OBS can do scaling up or down as you record (you can stretch the game window to fit your recording layer), but it's less stressful on the hardware as far as I know to record at the lower resolution, and then do upscaling in post-processing if you need to bump up the resolution so Youtube doesn't destroy the video quality. In this case, if you're forced to play in a Window, just turn your system's resolution down while recording. I've done this in the past for games I have to play windowed. It's inconvenient, but it should work.
My computer is too weak for Fraps. I tried it years ago.
At what resolution and framerate were you recording? Lowering the resolution and doing 30 FPS will go a long way towards getting better results. Again, my GPU sucks, and I've been getting good results (my CPU's great though so that probably helps). Fraps has consistently been faster to record with than OBS Studio, whereas OBS Studio stutters when recording on my hardware at any resolution above 800x600.
I also forced the window to be larger because I sort of needed to see what I was doing.
Both CC: World Ignition and the latest version of the doujin support replays - is it possible to record a replay, then record the playback? You can then play with your settings and see what gets the best result without the stress of trying to record the live runs.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by EmperorIng »

christmascameearly wrote:I've never played the Zeal games, they're on sale right now and I wanna try one out. Which one should I get? XIIZEAL, Trizeal, ExZeal and Delta Zeal are on sale.
I haven't played much of ExZeal, but I enjoy DeltaZeal despite it feeling somewhat like a fan game. XIIZeal is one that didn't particularly grab me, because you spend the whole game using one attack (wiggle wiggle) and the stage layout sometimes felt random (this is a problem in Delta as well, but the more traditional weapons made it more palatable).

TriZeal vs ExZeal, I guess that's the question.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Trizeal. It's a solid, game and the mechanics, while not the most polished, are solid and playable. Some of the other games get very weird and are very hit-or-miss.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by M.Knight »

Trizeal feels more "standard" to me in its stage and weapon designs, whereas Exzeal decides to be a bit more experimental here and there. Some examples include the stage 1 black round enemies you must rotate to aim their red weak spots, the Stage 3 block "labyrinth", or the escape sequence in a later stage.
Trizeal's difficulty if you do not activate the powerup-related rank is a bit on the easier side though and the scoring didn't grab me much because the medals are falling way too fast.

My favorite Triangle Service shmup is probably XIIZeal because the side weapon is quite a fun gimmick. However, I think Trizeal might be a better recommendation to someone unfamiliar with the "series".
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by LordHypnos »

Far from an expert on Triangle Service, but the one thing that I'd add to the Zeal discussion is that Exzeal gives you several ship choices that play differently including the XIIZeal ship. This means you can choose between wiggle shot or no wiggle shot (though I think at least one of those ships has a wiggle charge shot). It's also minimally explored territory. I think there's only like 1 or 2 clear videos at large, and they're on nicovideo only. That is unless I'm confusing Exzeal for one of the other zeals. lol.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by cicada88 »

I need to know the top 2 games out of the following Steam STG list:


Blue Revolver
Crimson Clover WORLD IGNITION
Eschatos
Graze Counter
Mecha Ritz
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Shepardus »

I would say CC:WI and Blue Revolver, though I haven't played Graze Counter apart from the short demo. Mecha Ritz has a freeware version so you probably aren't missing out on as much if you don't get Steel Rondo (though it's still worth the price IMO). I'm not as much a fan of Eschatos, though your mileage may vary.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by EmperorIng »

Switch Mecha Ritz and Eschatos on that list and you have my order of preference, actually. :mrgreen:
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by M.Knight »

cicada88 wrote:I need to know the top 2 games out of the following Steam STG list:


Blue Revolver
Crimson Clover WORLD IGNITION
Eschatos
Graze Counter
Mecha Ritz
Blue Revolver and CC:WI are the safer choices and I would recommend those.
That said, Graze Counter is also very fun IMO. It has a very enjoyable dynamic between its grazing and its hypering, so you end up grazing bullets whenever you can to charge up hypers that you use to cancel bullets and deal as much damage as possible. The flexibility between the two hypers makes the system pretty fluid and forgiving.
On top of that, it has a good amount of content, with its few bonus modes and multiple difficulty levels. Clearing it on the default mode and difficulty isn't too difficult, but it gets tricky after that and the scoring adds yet another layer on top of it.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by CloudyMusic »

I would second (third?) the recommendation of CCWI and Blue Revolver. Those games all have their fans and you're likely to enjoy any of them, but I think those two are the safest choice, and my personal favorites.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

Spoiler
What are the choices for saving Limi in Giga Wing 2’s ending?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

christmascameearly wrote:I've never played the Zeal games, they're on sale right now and I wanna try one out. Which one should I get? XIIZEAL, Trizeal, ExZeal and Delta Zeal are on sale.
Trizeal and DeltaZeal are the most straightforward of Triangle Service's games, so probably the best starting point. Similar weapon and medal scoring systems, though I'd say DeltaZeal edges it - it has branching routes through the stages vary based on how you handle certain enemy waves, plus a/b variants of some stages determined when you take down a boss. Also the sprite work is easier on the eye than Trizeal's low-detail polygons. XIIZeal offers up similar in-stage variation to DeltaZeal but is focused around a single weapon mechanic - whereas both Trizeal and DeltaZeal give you a great mix-and-match weapon system

ExZeal is weird, probably the worst as a starter. While it does have a choice of ships that play very differently, there are some odd stages - previously mentioned box maze and escape stages, while the final stage is a lengthy memoriser that's a bit of a slog. It's not bad, it's just very different to the others.
xxx1993

Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

Spoiler
In Ginga Force, you fight Natsuki late in the game as a boss. And I think you kill her. So is Natsuki Chronicle really going to be a prequel?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

xxx1993 wrote:
Spoiler
xxx1993 wrote:
Spoiler
Here is how to use spoiler tags in a way that obscures plot details, while leaving the question visible to those who may have the answers you seek.

1) In Giga Wing 2’s ending,
Spoiler
what are the choices for saving Limi?
2) In Ginga Force,
Spoiler
you fight Natsuki late in the game as a boss. And I think you kill her. So is Natsuki Chronicle really going to be a prequel?
I don't know the answer to either. :[
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

I want someone who knows to give me answers, please.
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