Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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el_rika
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by el_rika »

Oh, i meant the pcb :D
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jehu
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by jehu »

A query for all you players of Cave 'shoot them ups.'

A dear friend and colleague of mine, Arthur Antinous Antlicker, has been indulging himself in the game Very Angry Bee Leader: Resurrection on his new Nintendo gaming platform. However, whenever he attempts to inscribe his initials into the top players' board, those three illustrious letters, AAA, are transmogrified to the putrid combination 'CAV' - the initials of his sworn foe, Caladrius Askole Venerium. He wonders: is this some kind of cosmic joke? Why must my one escape from the torturous prison of life be haunted by the imprint of impious Caladrius?

The situation, you understand, is dire. What recourse does he have?
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by To Far Away Times »

He suffers the same sad fate as players like Anthony Samuel Smith and many others who will never be able to enter their initials.
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OmegaFlareX
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by OmegaFlareX »

Simon Eugene Xavier
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BulletMagnet
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BulletMagnet »

True story, Progear won't even accept "BM".
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Francesco Armand Gutierrez has had a rough go of things...though perhaps not quite as tough as his cousin, Fabio Umberto Kruz.
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Jonpachi
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Jonpachi »

The high score achievements of Toby Ian Thomas and David Irving Kirk will also, sadly, forever go unknown.

BTW this thread made my weekend...
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JJHLH
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by JJHLH »

Don’t forget about the neglected achievements of Victor Andrew Green.
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Despatche
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Despatche »

SPM wrote:On that note, can anyone explain to me why we can download Battle Traverse from archive.org if it's currently been sold on DLsite? An old version or something?
Basically, the People Who Just Want Free Games (always trying to hide behind the shield of "muh preservation") are pushing the limit. If they're not careful, we could lose everything.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

BulletMagnet wrote:True story, Progear won't even accept "BM".
:(
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

I don't get what this guy is doing at 6:49 on 1-3 of this (impressive) Dodonpachi replay. He drops his chain deliberately, bullet cancels a bunch of enemies and then just lets them live.

https://youtu.be/GbWR1m5OPUA?t=409
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

The answer's hiding right in front of you. You've noticed he deliberately goes for a cancel, and you can assume anything done here's done for the sake of score since it's clearly a heavily optimized score run. Take a look at the millions digit of the score whenever he gets a cancel. ;3

The action really starts at 6:10, where those green enemies start appearing. By the time you can start cancelling bullets, the combo isn't noteworthy, only 80 hits, but every bullet cancel gives a whopping 2 mil points or so, so it's way more lucrative to go for the cancels here. He gets the cancel on the last enemies, then goes up the side of the screen for safety, waits for the next wave of popcorn enemies to show up, and starts a new chain using his laser aura to hit 4 of the enemies at the bottom of the screen to add them to the chain.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:He gets the cancel on the last enemies, then goes up the side of the screen for safety
I think this was the part that threw me. It seemed like he could have easily killed them all, and still left a couple alive to start the next chain. He hits 712 million in this run, according to the shmups wiki the A-L world record was 748 million at the time. Not that it would have closed the gap, but I'd have thought every little thing counts.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

That wave is super dense and dangerous even if you're trying to kill them all, and yeah, killing them all would not have made up the gap. It's more likely the difference comes from the score glitch in DDP (which is insanely hard to trigger deliberately due to it being like a 1 frame window).
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SPM
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by SPM »

What do you think should be happening in this situation? Definitely not this!

Ship and pattern are aligned. Boss steps aside causing (background AND BULLETS) autoscroll, keeping your ship static on screen --> Death.
I think both ship and bullets should be affected the same way. If they "autoscroll", ship's control may feel weird. If they don't, bullets aren't consistent. But I think the latter would fit this genre better? What's your take on this?
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wiNteR
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by wiNteR »

I didn't quite get what you are saying. But years ago, I made a topic related to this (perhaps might be of some interest):
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33658

I think my second-last post there probably still has few relevant points. Though I don't know about this topic well (regarding the implementation in actual current games).
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Rastan78
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Rastan78 »

That's an interesting case. Of course the normal circumstances on a shmup would be if there's autoscrolling on a different axis (for example a section where a vertical shmup scrolls to the left, right or diagonal) then everything should be affected the same way. Otherwise in a vertical game only the player movement should be allowed to scroll the screen left or right.

I'd be inclined to say breaking the conventions could be an intended design choice here and shouldn't necessarily be fixed or corrected. At least the boss' movement is very clearly telegraphed in a predictable way.

Like you said both obvious changes have issues. You deal with your ship being pulled to the side automatically or inconsistent bullet patterns if the boss fires while moving.
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BIL
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

That's a textbook micro-tap, just coming from the boss (an unfathomably massive spider-tank) rather than the player (an agile fighter-craft). :cool: Some of these big fuckers know how to move! Check out this big bad boi's moves in RFJ's REAL BATTLE Phase II! :shock:
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Rastan78
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Rastan78 »

Why is that beast not a playable ship in RFJ? I want to microtap with a ship that takes up the whole screen like Grandpas old Buick. You thought Gradius had big hitboxes? Could a shmup ever be designed in reverse where the player controls a massive army and sends out bullets patterns in an attempt to blow up tiny but nimble fighters? Shmup/Tower Defence hybrid?

If I'm seeing that right they handled the movement the same way as 19XX did. I think it's right that way the bullets stay fixed relative to the boss and the background. The player just has to git gud and react to the shifting bullet patterns on the fly.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

Yep! Bullets locked down as God and Jesus intended. Bullet wobble (bullets moving horizontally with the screen) is some bad shit. Gives things a "shumps on ice" feeling, exactly what you don't want in super-tight STG context. I can just about put up with it in STGs I really like (Thunder Dragon has a bit of it).
Rastan78 wrote:Why is that beast not a playable ship in RFJ? I want to microtap with a ship that takes up the whole screen like Grandpas old Buick.
I suspect this was the dream of Uchuu Senkan Gomorrah's designer, too :mrgreen:
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Rastan78 wrote:Could a shmup ever be designed in reverse where the player controls a massive army and sends out bullets patterns in an attempt to blow up tiny but nimble fighters?
There actually is such a game out there, where you play as a boss and send out bullet patterns to kill a small ship that's attacking you, made in Flash. Unfortunately, since Flash is essentially retired now and many site with games refuse to release them as standalone .SWF files, entire websites' worth of games are becoming unplayable. Here you go:

Boss Rush

It was a cute gimmick but I don't recall it working well enough to be genuinely fun or memorable compared to more traditional shmups (Area Flat was an amazing series of shmups~).
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Rastan78
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Rastan78 »

Terrifying attacks that someone else has to dodge
Lol I like the sound of that. Ikeda should have that tattooed on his chest.

Change Air Blade 2P battles give a bit of that when you go into boss mode. I got the chance to try it out head to head on a cab once back in the day at Dave K's house. Fun, but I got destroyed as I was just trying to get used to the controls IIRC.

https://youtu.be/moveGxHiREw
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Change Air Blade is amazing. It's fun in the same sense that the Hokuto no Ken arcade game is; probably wildly unbalanced (the RNG items that drop can be a game changer, particularly the ones that let you switch sides, there's a couple clearly insanely good ships like the ones with melee attacks). Have fun with it, don't take it too seriously, and it's a blast to play.

It's really fun to play it online on Fightcade.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by To Far Away Times »

In pursuit of the most trivial of things I thought it might be fun to try to 1CC one shmup for every letter of the alphabet. But I can't think of many shmups that start with the following letters:

Q
U
Y

Any games you would recommend?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

Uchuu Senkan Gomorrah? (aka Bio-Ship Paladin) :wink: (I like its "Space Winnebago Full Of Crackhead Gangbangers" action for real - I know it's a meme game or whatever, but eh :cool:)

Also, IREM's Youjyuden (aka Heroic Episode) is a cool Commando-goes-Xevious vert. Simple, tight oldschool shooting. Feels slightly older than it really is (1986), but likeably so. Worth a look for the cute chibi-mythical aesthetic, much warmer than their soon-to-come classically xenoindustrial STG output.

Actually reminds me a lot of Capcom's contemporaneous works, now I think about it. Hm. Just look at mr. DARGON's goofy little pout! Image Image

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pja
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by pja »

To Far Away Times wrote:In pursuit of the most trivial of things I thought it might be fun to try to 1CC one shmup for every letter of the alphabet. But I can't think of many shmups that start with the following letters:

Q
U
Y

Any games you would recommend?
U should be pretty easy, U.N. Squadron :P Alternatively, wait until Ubusuna comes out...
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by SPM »

pja wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote:In pursuit of the most trivial of things I thought it might be fun to try to 1CC one shmup for every letter of the alphabet. But I can't think of many shmups that start with the following letters:

Q
U
Y

Any games you would recommend?
U should be pretty easy, U.N. Squadron :P Alternatively, wait until Ubusuna comes out...
Q --> Quarth

Idk about Y... but I'm here to make your life easier:
"Y" in Spanish means "and". You could do letters A-X "and" Z :lol: Problem solved :mrgreen:
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Jonpachi
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Jonpachi »

Yar's Revenge? :wink:
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

To Far Away Times wrote:Q
U
Y

Any games you would recommend?
U.N. Squadron or Ultimate Ecology are both good. Don't know how U.N. Defense Force: Earth Joker plays though.

For Y there's Irem's Youjyuden or Nichibutsu's Youma Ninpou Chou, but I've not played them.

I don't know of any Q shmups but there's an old Atari game called Quasar, and there's a Sega game that combines run 'n gun and shmupping called Quartet. I also found an MS-DOS shmup called Quadnet.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Ghegs »

I went to GameFAQs with the assumption there'd sure to be some shmup beginning with a Y, but it's honestly really slim pickings. Best ones I could find were Youjyuden (from IREM of all companies) that alternatives between Commando-style push-scroll stages and shmup stages, and Yami no Ryu ou Hades no Monshou for the MSX. It even has a Moai head boss, so that's an extra +1 shmup point in its favor.

EDIT: Derp, BIL and BareKnuckleRoo already covered Youjyuden.

For Q there's Q-YO Blaster and Quad Fighter K.
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