Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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BIL
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Technicolor wrote:I’m having a lot of fun just jumping in and playing here, so I wanna practice in a way that retains that fun.
I recommend not leaning too much on savestates. You also have to build up the endurance to do full runs, so it's good to regularly do those too.
Over the last few years, being typically limited to one savestate via ACA (you can finesse more via multiple user accounts, but it's a bit involved), I've found it good to park the save ~50% through, focusing on the back half and its typically higher intensity; this avoids burning out replaying the generally conquered early stages, without sacrificing too much of the big picture.

And of course, states are great for drilling spikes that are liable to bring the whole run crashing down until thoroughly mastered. If I come across something like that, I'll typically park the state there for a bit until mitigation's in place. Which is a good excuse to replay the full credit and restore the midpoint.

The absent captpain, who was a cantankerous sort, but also gifted some cracking posts (cf his Greater Bakraid Theorem) likened arcade credits to his endeavours as a trained musician, breaking down compositions and honing individual phases before assembling a complete performance. Something I take comfort in, when state practice threatens to feel more like a mad professor engineering the playlist for his afternoon shag. :lol:
Last edited by BIL on Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

I want to buy Gradius II.

I have the PC Engine version of the first game and PCE Salamander on virtual console, and those versions are just magic, easily my favourite revisions of either. After Shmup Junkie gushed over the Gradius II port as one of five S+ ranked titles on the system (along with Soldier Blade, Salamander, Nexzr & R-Type since I know you're curious) and Konami's best PCE game, I'd planned on grabbing that one.

But Gradius II is on super CD and I've heard the soundtrack is the same as the arcade, so I'm not sure what a PCE version would add over the Saturn Gradius Deluxe Pack, which has pretty much arcade perfect ports of I&II and costs less than a copy of II on PCE would.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:It's a shmup, with jumping as an option to dodge. Things still autoscroll, you're still moving across the X and Y axis freely, just with a jump along the Z axis as a limited movement, dodge option. It kinda blurs the lines a bit but still is firmly in shmup territory.
I figured you’d lean more shmupwise based on your opinions from before, yeah. I’ll have to give Kuuga 2001 a look-see at some point.
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:The Japanese version is the accepted one. The World version is slightly easier, and I think is a bit easier to trigger the 1UP? It's not a tremendous difference like how Donpachi's Japan, USA, and Hong Kong revisions differ.
Okay, yeah, I’ve got the japanese version downloaded then.
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Go little green heli! You lose a slight bit of movement speed for way more spread and better close range damage.



If you like Type A's speed but want more spread, consider Type B. If the wiggly options are throwing you off, you can also rhythmically tap and hold the laser briefly to recenter them, letting you move while firing forward.
Truth be told, I might give it a go. It seems like it could be a solid compromise. I’m less concerned with whether I’m struggling to use it and moreso with how it actually feels to play, though— more fun means more motivation to play, right?
BareKnuckleRoo wrote: I recommend not leaning too much on savestates. You also have to build up the endurance to do full runs, so it's good to regularly do those too.
Noted. I feel like I need to build up a tolerance to practice play too, but I guess that comes after actually playing the game.
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:The big differences are in the presence of grounded enemies (which makes it better than Touhou imo) and how the focus button works (Touhou's faster response is better here, Dodonpachi DFK actually has that kind of shot to laser speed though). Be aware that unlike most Touhou games, your shot damage especially when playing as A-S, B-S, or C-S is very capable of killing even larger enemies quite quickly. B-S in particular can sail through stages rarely needing to use the laser (particularly large enemies or the bosses mainly).



No ships in the series deal more damage with the shot over the laser except for Type B in Donpachi when using rapidfire.
Yeah, I definitely noticed how strong the shot feels, I was relying on it pretty heavily in the stages. Part of why I asked about damage in the first place since I couldn’t tell the difference just from eyeballing.
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:This is something that was also present in at least a few Touhou games, namely PCB and IN. The rule of thumb is use the shot bomb in stages and the laser bomb on bosses. Really though, either bomb will give you plenty of damage and safety to wipe the screen of enemies in stages, and it's only on bosses where the laser bomb's much higher damage is critical on bosses.
Was aware of the dual bombs in PCB/IN, but I’ve mostly played EoSD and StB up to now so I haven’t actually experienced it firsthand. I was doing just fine with the laser bomb in the stages, but the shot bomb’s extra breathing room certainly helped me get ahold of my emotions better. Plus it’s just fun to see all the enemies blow up :lol:
BareKnuckleRoo wrote: In DDP, you'll find when using a Shot type ship that it's better to use the rapid shots to clear the screen mainly because the laser can't punch through small targets. It's not just the damage that affects screen clearing, and the Laser type ships all can punch through small enemies with their respective lasers. Laser type ships also get a slight boost in damage to the laser, but it's not a tremendous amount (Shot type ships are better for survival if learning a 1 loop clear, the stronger laser damage makes Laser types way better for a 2 loop clear due to the very nasty TLB that can't be bombed to death).
That’s essentially where my stated strategy came from, though knowing that the laser always deals more damage does change things. As does knowing that the laser ships are better for the second loop… I’d like to be able to clear that someday, so I guess making things a little harder on myself early on would be good so I wouldn’t have to relearn everything. I’m gonna miss the slower laser movement speed, but I guess that’d also be tough going against Hibachi, wouldn’t it? ^^:

Thanks for the thorough advice. Current plan is to toy around with the different laser ships and just get runs to the end of the game. Next goal is to win in 6-7 credits with a laser ship— is there a dedicated thread I should go to to discuss the game further?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

Sengoku Strider wrote:I want to buy Gradius II.

I have the PC Engine version of the first game and PCE Salamander on virtual console, and those versions are just magic, easily my favourite revisions of either. After Shmup Junkie gushed over the Gradius II port as one of five S+ ranked titles on the system (along with Soldier Blade, Salamander, Nexzr & R-Type since I know you're curious) and Konami's best PCE game, I'd planned on grabbing that one.

But Gradius II is on super CD and I've heard the soundtrack is the same as the arcade, so I'm not sure what a PCE version would add over the Saturn Gradius Deluxe Pack, which has pretty much arcade perfect ports of I&II and costs less than a copy of II on PCE would.
Gradius II PCE feels subtly smoothed-out to me, WRT collision detection and ship movement. I remember discussing this with Perikles and I think Klatrymadon, several years back... the PCE-original stage, which is really cool, features some pixel-precise corridors that I'd find unnerving on the slightly prickly AC ver, but they play buttery-smooth there.

Never quite trusted that AC tailpipe.
Spoiler
Image


Maybe psychosomatic, maybe a subtly refined conversion. At any rate, it plays wonderfully for the most part. The caveat, as with other herculean PCE-CD ports like Forgotten Worlds and Rainbow Islands, is some unfortunate bullet flicker, particularly in the loops. It's not unplayable, but definitely needs pointing out.

If I had to keep one disc (ignoring Gotch's lovely PS4 ACA version), it'd be the Saturn, for accuracy's sake. The Deluxe Packs are generally super-close ports, though I went with PS1 for Gradius and Salamander (PCB-accurate low res; I always heard Paro Deluxe ran better on Saturn, so I went with Sega's machine there). As an enthusiast piece though, the PCE one's certainly nice to have around. Arcade pragmatism vs CD-ROManticism. ;3
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BIL wrote:Gradius II PCE feels subtly smoothed-out to me, WRT collision detection and ship movement. I remember discussing this with Perikles and I think Klatrymadon, several years back... the PCE-original stage, which is really cool, features some pixel-precise corridors that I'd find unnerving on the slightly prickly AC ver, but they play buttery-smooth there.


Never quite trusted that AC tailpipe.
Spoiler
Image
This all sounds exactly like the comparisons with PCE Grad 1, so that's good news. Gradius has definitely been a series with some stressful hitboxes over the years, if that's part of the smoothing out they did then it's probably a pretty clear choice.
Maybe psychosomatic, maybe a subtly refined conversion. At any rate, it plays wonderfully for the most part. The caveat, as with other herculean PCE-CD ports like Forgotten Worlds and Rainbow Islands, is some unfortunate bullet flicker, particularly in the loops. It's not unplayable, but definitely needs pointing out.
This sort of thing doesn't bother me unless it's really egregious. Like, Master System R-Type where exceeding the sprite limit of a line just Psycho-Mantises all the bullets in front of you.
If I had to keep one disc (ignoring Gotch's lovely PS4 ACA version), it'd be the Saturn, for accuracy's sake. The Deluxe Packs are generally super-close ports, though I went with PS1 for Gradius and Salamander (PCB-accurate low res; I always heard Paro Deluxe ran better on Saturn, so I went with Sega's machine there). As an enthusiast piece though, the PCE one's certainly nice to have around. Arcade pragmatism vs CD-ROManticism. ;3
Gokujou Parodius on Saturn is what really got me thinking in this direction. It's so good, but it also leaves me wanting something on the platform that plays similar and has that peak 90s Konami craftspersonship, but with more of a straightforward sci-fi style.

It's an outright tragedy that Konami opted not to release Gradius Gaiden on the Saturn. The team who did it had already worked on the Deluxe Packs, so it probably wouldn't have been a technical trainwreck like Symphony was.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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Technicolor wrote:I’d like to be able to clear that someday, so I guess making things a little harder on myself early on would be good so I wouldn’t have to relearn everything. I’m gonna miss the slower laser movement speed, but I guess that’d also be tough going against Hibachi, wouldn’t it? ^^:
The speed for all the shot types when lasering isn't too bad (it's massively upgraded from Donpachi and is much faster than DOJ's shot types). The damage is the main issue, but it's not a huge drop going from a shot type to a laser type and Hibachi can still be beaten with the shot types (C-S is a popular one).

I would strongly recommend learning the game with a Shot type. It makes it quite a bit more manageable for a reason you might not be aware of: the shot type you pick affects what gets depowered when you die. Being depowered doesn't affect damage too much; the main thing it impacts is the width and firing rate of your attacks. Shot types lose very little shot power on death but lose most of their laser width, whereas laser types lose almost all shot power, but little of their laser width.

Losing your laser width and a slight bit of damage isn't a huge issue on a boss, but losing your shot width and having a slow refire rate is a tremendous liability when learning stages as a sudden death causes you to have to change how you're tackling stuff. If you die as a laser type, you'll probably have to laser a lot to recover, whereas shot types don't have to worry about a sudden power-loss in the middle of the stage affecting how they handle things too much. It's pretty easy to adjust from playing a Shot type ship to a Laser type too, but use whatever you like. If you like A-S because it's strong but has a slower laser movement that's easy to handle, stick with that too. There's no really bad ship in Dodonpachi, aside from perhaps A-L for a beginner which is very powerful and fast, but tough to use until you're familiar with all enemy positions because you have absolutely no spread to work with.

B-L and C-L are both very fine ships. B-L will be an easy adjustment for you too as its shot width is basically the same as A-S, and it's still plenty strong at max power while being able to focus damage or sweep wide as need be.

FYI, damage values for each ship listed here:

http://shmups.com/beepreying/old/strate ... ers/a.html

http://shmups.com/beepreying/old/strate ... ers/b.html

http://shmups.com/beepreying/old/strate ... ers/c.html

Interestingly, all three ships have equal damage when using the laser as a Laser type, but when lasering as a shot type there's a very marginal difference where A is the strongest and C is the weakest (it's small enough that it makes little difference though).
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:I would strongly recommend learning the game with a Shot type. It makes it quite a bit more manageable for a reason you might not be aware of: the shot type you pick affects what gets depowered when you die. Being depowered doesn't affect damage too much; the main thing it impacts is the width and firing rate of your attacks. Shot types lose very little shot power on death but lose most of their laser width, whereas laser types lose almost all shot power, but little of their laser width.

Losing your laser width and a slight bit of damage isn't a huge issue on a boss, but losing your shot width and having a slow refire rate is a tremendous liability when learning stages as a sudden death causes you to have to change how you're tackling stuff. If you die as a laser type, you'll probably have to laser a lot to recover, whereas shot types don't have to worry about a sudden power-loss in the middle of the stage affecting how they handle things too much. It's pretty easy to adjust from playing a Shot type ship to a Laser type too, but use whatever you like. If you like A-S because it's strong but has a slower laser movement that's easy to handle, stick with that too. There's no really bad ship in Dodonpachi, aside from perhaps A-L for a beginner which is very powerful and fast, but tough to use until you're familiar with all enemy positions because you have absolutely no spread to work with.

B-L and C-L are both very fine ships. B-L will be an easy adjustment for you too as its shot width is basically the same as A-S, and it's still plenty strong at max power while being able to focus damage or sweep wide as need be.
Wouldn’t you know it, I was keen on A-L… that aspect of depowering is good to know, as well as that transitioning over to laser types isn’t too bad. I’d been playing with laser types today, but I’ll keep playing with shot types from now on.

Speaking of, something weird happened earlier. I gave all of the the various laser types a try, and found that I seemed to enjoy A-L the most and B-L the least. Then I stopped playing for a few hours because my arm was cramping up, and when I sat back down it was like my muscle memory had gotten scrambled somehow. I was playing a lot worse, which I guess I’d gotten tired by that point in the evening, but suddenly B-L and C-L clicked where A-L just stopped? Though I guess it makes sense that A-L would suffer the most if I wasn’t playing at my best.

I had a couple of savestates set up to start runs quickly, but I think I’m going to have to leave those completely clear. It’s way too tempting to load back to the start after a miss in the first three stages. Definitely see what you meant a little better now.

Today was a bit of a bust, but at least I got some play in. I’m learning little by little here.
Last edited by Technicolor on Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Some days are like that. You just don't play well. It happens, just come back at it another day.

And yeah, A-L is the most demanding by far to play because the only thing it can really do is use the laser and move fast. Its total lack of spreadfire means you have no versatility for getting out of a jam by quickly sweeping the screen with a flood of shots if need be, so you have to learn and stick to a good route (or know how to improvise with a thin laser!).
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

I ended up making a couple of breakthroughs after sending that. First of all, yes, shot type definitely feels much better to use for me, and deleting the savestates absolutely helped. I also learned a few things about bosses 2 and 3 that should help boost my consistency, and actually getting runs deep into the game helped put me “in the zone.” I feel like I might legitimately need practice from here though, regarding the later stages.


I think what I’ll probably start doing is making savestates for practice purposes, then temporarily move the files during actual runs to remove the temptation. For now, I’ll just keep throwing myself at the game and seeing what I can learn— getting myself out of reset hell makes things way more fun.


UPDATE:Down to five continues! Staying in shot mode as much as possible really helps.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

Gonna go ahead and ask again: should I move this to a different thread? Shmup Ticker sticks out to me, but I dunno if that’s appropriate for extended posting like thid.

I also hear Elixer’s discord has a channel for beginners, which would be extremely pertinent and probably more fitted for “cluttered” talk like this. Though I’d definitely be going through muting everything else before actually talking in the damn thing, slower communication like this has always felt better to me.

…I should probably trying exploring other forums too, huh.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Technicolor wrote:Gonna go ahead and ask again: should I move this to a different thread? Shmup Ticker sticks out to me, but I dunno if that’s appropriate for extended posting like thid.[
Prometheus wrote a guide to shmups in general, using DDP as the basis, it has a thread in the strategy section: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=34497. Or you could just decide that in fact all these questions do deserve their own thread. Or not.

Incidentally, Electric Underground did a video a while back ranking DDP ships for survival or score:

Scoring:

Image


Survival:

Image

He's taking 2nd loop performance into account there.

As my own aside to this, he mentioned he doesn't like the way BS controls which I think factors into his ranking, but I took it to naturally and found more interesting to handle than the other ships. On the other hand I can't beat Hibachi clean, so weigh my words for what they're worth, lol.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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I don't understand the justification for B-Laser being rated low tier survival when it's nearly as fast as A-Laser, has far wider and better spread capabilities, is faster than C-Laser, and as a bonus happens to be a colour that's a high contrast with the reds and blues of enemy shots. If the laser is worthy enough against Hibachi to rate A-L as high tier, then B-L would at least be at mid tier if not high tier. If you don't like the handling of how the gunpods turn (they turn faster if you hold down + tap left/right, you can recenter them with a brief hold of the laser button), it's not actually that difficult to use is as a super-wide forward shot by rhythmically tapping the laser button just long enough to recenter the side pods, which turns B-L into a slightly slower but much wider A-L, and B-S into a superwide forward shot type that can sweep effectively.

I also suspect the ease which the Shot types handle stages and are generally quite effective probably means the difference in terms of usefulness between the high tier and low tier picks for a 2-All clear probably aren't as significant as other games where the damage varies very wildly depending on shot type. The "worst" shot type in this is still very capable of tackling the game compared to say how bad Jyuji in Batrider is compared to the rest of the cast (terrible shot, terrible bomb).

C-S aside, the Shot types are indeed tougher to learn to chain with due to how slow the laser is, and both B types have the tricky gunpods that make chaining difficult (on top of B-S generally killing everything so fast). But note that half a year after this video was published KTL-NAL posted a B-L score that took the world record for overall score across all shot types, so this tier list is not representative of theoretical scoring potential.

Basically, all the shot types in DDP are pretty serviceable and they're pretty competitive with each other compared to other shmups where there's a far higher gap in usefulness between the good shot types and the bad shot types.

I spent the evening making a video on how to easily use Type B if you're struggling with handling the gunpods, it's really not too tough at all and the gunpods are stronger than what A-S or A-L have, which makes it super effective even if you just use it purely as a wide straight shot ship (you can probably setup rapid fire to do this too automatically, not sure what the optimal frames on/frames off setting is for this):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWANldXOu1E
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

Sengoku Strider wrote:Prometheus wrote a guide to shmups in general, using DDP as the basis, it has a thread in the strategy section: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=34497. Or you could just decide that in fact all these questions do deserve their own thread. Or not.
I actually already read Full Extent of the Jam a few weeks back, it’s very well-written but a lot of it doesn’t seem to apply to how I’m currently approaching the game. I might go back and reread his general tips on dodging and practice— his points about moving back with the bullets and about diagonal dodging also being useful away from the edges were pretty eye-opening to me— but I don’t think I’m at the point where I’d be able to apply the rigor he stresses without ultimately walking away from the genre entirely. Yet.

My main priority at the moment is finding a balance between developing good habits and just… playing and enjoying myself. I want to form a habit of playing consistently and putting fun first in the short-term seems like the way to do it. And I want to make learning and practicing as fun as it can possibly be right now, too. I don’t have a clean route just yet, and I might not be improving as quickly as I theoretically could be, but I can feel myself learning and improving. I’m getting a better handle on playing aggressively, I’m learning new things about bosses. It feels like I’ve stumbled on a mechanical playground, and I want to explore it for as long as I can.

I think the next time I play, I’m going to get some savestates ready and go into practicing with that explorative mindset. At the very least, I’d like to be able to 1cc the first loop on my own terms before studying other peoples’ routes and figuring out the second loop requirements.

With regards to ship choice, I’m still playing around a bit, but I think A-S is probably going to be what I settle with for now. Zipping around quickly feels really fun, the shot is really satisfying to use and transitioning from it to A-L down the line sounds promising. Prometheus also mentioned that A-L has a lot of learning resources centered around it which should aid that transition further.

Though I’ll definitely still check out your video, Roo, since I’m curious anyway. I actually got it in my Youtube feed a little while ago!
Last edited by Technicolor on Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

Okay actually, maybe nevermind on that routing point! It’s a different ship, but some of your strategies in stage 3 seem very useful to learn from. Namely those randomized spray ships and the stage 3 boss— I thought I had the right idea dismantling it, but I didn’t realize there were turrets behind the main body to hit! That’s some really sneaky boss design!

Seeing the tips you mentioned in action were really interesting too. I’m still not sure if I wanna use Type-B, moreso because I like Type-A’s speed than because it’s difficult to use… but, hm, the possibilities are fun to think about.

At any rate, seeing the way you’d lightly spray enemies from afar before coming up on them was really interesting. The eight-second mark stuck out to me despite how subtle it was just because it seemed like a strangely precise movement, the fact that you let the gunpod sweep so sharply. But looking at the bullets themselves, it left the right side of the screen completely safe. Interesting stuff.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I like Type-A’s speed
That's fair. A-S and C-S both have a very Touhou kind of feel to how their speeds work so if you're used to that they'll likely feel the most natural. Type B is the most unusual and is probably comparable to playing Youmu + Yuyuko or Youmu Solo from Imperishable Night. I personally like having the extra shot width and the option to sweep the side pods wide as needed to hit stuff, but speed is good to have too.

One thing I encourage you to try when picking a shot type in an arcade game is to map your controls to be the same on both P1 and P2 side. Then, fire up a couple credits with two different shot types and move around to compare how fast they are. Dodonpachi's ships all have pretty similar movement speeds actually, and aren't that far off from each other compared to something like Donpachi or Daioujou where there's some HUGE variation (Type C in DP is very slow, the Shot types in Daioujou have a slow as molasses laser movement compared to C-S in DDP, etc). Type B is slower, but it's not by very much, which means I'd generally argue its advantages are a worthy tradeoff. Even type C moves quite fast, having gotten a significant speed buff from Donpachi, and feels more than fast enough to handle everything.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by SPM »

So... what's the deal with the somewhat-aimed-but-not-really bullets in Gun Frontier? Limited angles or randomness in your general direction? It feels like the second, and coupled with the weird/big hit boxes it makes the game quite stressful and painful... but somehow better? LOL this might be the fastest Stockholm syndrome I've ever developed XD but it's unique and keeps you on your toes.
"There are three possible endings: the good one, the bad one and death" - Locomalito, Super Hydorah
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I always suspected it was limited angles, but I don't know the details for sure. I was getting a bit of Stockholm Syndrome by the end too as I was about ready to give up on the game when I got the clear. The slow as molasses movement speed still isn't endearing to me but I couldn't resist the EVERYTHING'S MADE OF GUNS wacky aesthetic combined with the fact I really dig Metal Black and want to 1cc that (a.k.a. Project Gun Frontier 2).

I never made any major attempts to rank control and everything seems doable in the end even with rank cranked up. Fortunately the final boss fight is much easier than the final stage, so the main hurdle to the 1cc is getting through the last stage. Once you've gotten to the final boss checkpoint the win's all but secured.

I was a bit saddened that the TLB fight in my clear ended in mutual destruction, but apparently that gets you the good end, so a win is a win, right? Lots of stories end with the hero's heroic sacrifice after all. ;)
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Aceskies »

Is it possible to play Vorpal today? not having a Xbox 360 I mean. I loved that game, it was my first bullet hell.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Nahar »

Technicolor wrote:Gonna go ahead and ask again: should I move this to a different thread? Shmup Ticker sticks out to me, but I dunno if that’s appropriate for extended posting like thid.

I also hear Elixer’s discord has a channel for beginners, which would be extremely pertinent and probably more fitted for “cluttered” talk like this. Though I’d definitely be going through muting everything else before actually talking in the damn thing, slower communication like this has always felt better to me.

…I should probably trying exploring other forums too, huh.
Do you have a link for that discord?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by xxx1993 »

Will R-Type Final 3 Evolved be framed as historical events of the series like in R-Type Final 2?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Martinov »

I'm pondering picking up the Japanese release Capcom Generation 4 for the PS1, but I noticed there was a reprint with an orange border on the cover. Are there any other differences? I'm mainly curious if they replaced the colour instruction pages of the original release with black and white ones, anything like that.
Technicolor
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Technicolor »

Nahar wrote:Do you have a link for that discord?
https://discord.com/invite/3GGgFqD7Ax

This should be the link right here. I pulled it off of Elixer’s signature on this forum :wink:
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Type B is slower, but it's not by very much, which means I'd generally argue its advantages are a worthy tradeoff.
Oh no, I gathered that much and it does seem really interesting and useful to play around with. Type-A’s speed is just a personal preference thing.

I haven’t been able to play these last few days from being busy with other things, but I think I’m gonna find some runs to watch and see if I can pull anything useful from the first loop routes.
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Nahar
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Nahar »

Technicolor wrote:
Nahar wrote:Do you have a link for that discord?
https://discord.com/invite/3GGgFqD7Ax

This should be the link right here. I pulled it off of Elixer’s signature on this forum :wink:
That's the same link I tried but, unfortunately, it's not working. Thank you anyway!
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Lander
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lander »

Why has nobody made the Eurobeat equivalent of Dangun Feveron?

Shit's absolutely begging for it.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

How many speed-ups do I need to play with in Gradius before I can consider myself a true badass? Because that seems to be the only reason for speeds +4 & +5 to exist.
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jehu
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by jehu »

Sengoku Strider wrote:How many speed-ups do I need to play with in Gradius before I can consider myself a true badass? Because that seems to be the only reason for speeds +4 & +5 to exist.
If you're going to try, go all the way...
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Nahar
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Nahar »

Which is the best database for shmups on the web? I can't find a solid one with entries since the first arcade games until today. Maybe it doesn't exist, I dunno, but if you know a good one, can you post a link here?

Thanks!
Steven
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Steven »

Does Lei Shen Zhuan Thunder Deity Biography have any major differences from Garegga aside from the Mahou Daisakusen ships being the default ships?
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Lethe
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lethe »

Steven wrote:Does Lei Shen Zhuan Thunder Deity Biography have any major differences from Garegga aside from the Mahou Daisakusen ships being the default ships?
- Start with 2.5 bombs, get 1.5 bombs/death
- Extended invincibility while using a full bomb
- Rank feels easier but I can't explain how
- Locked to 2-loop mode
Probably other things too.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Nahar wrote:Which is the best database for shmups on the web? I can't find a solid one with entries since the first arcade games until today. Maybe it doesn't exist, I dunno, but if you know a good one, can you post a link here?

Thanks!
There's the Shmups wiki, which is still a work in progress: https://shmups.wiki/library/Main_Page

When I was getting started with shmups seriously, I found the various Racketboy guides pretty helpful. I'd later find out that some of them were written by regular posters here. For instance, BulletMagnet's Saturn shmup guide is pretty comprehensive and authoritative imo: https://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega-sa ... d-shooters.

Other than that, there's a bunch of info scattered around wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_%27em_up
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ag ... ideo_games
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