Despite the unceremonious philistine bitching about V-V (hehe), in honor of Toaplan week I've translated the very long, very detailed Toaplan Shooting Chronicle developer interviews. This box set was released in November 2011, so the interview was likely done around then. Together with the
Toaplan Forever interview at gamengai and the
Yuge and
Uemura interviews from Shooting Gameside #3, this tells a pretty thorough tale of life at Toaplan. The best part, to me, are the detailed questions at the end of the interview about each individual game, from Tiger Heli to V-V. At times the questions almost get into a level of minutiae that tested even my patience, but its interesting stuff by and large.
As a bonus, I've translated four more interviews from 1989 through 1993. One is for a music magazine, one briefly discusses the Megadrive console ports, one focuses on V-V, and another is a general interview from 1990. They're shorter, but they include some of the lesser known designers (Naoki Ogiwara, Iwabuchi Koetsu). I think this does it for Toaplan knowledge, unless that mythical book GaijinPunch spoke of ever resurfaces on YAJ. Enjoy them at your leisure! There's overlap between the interviews, so I wouldn't suggest trying to blaze through them all in one sitting. I'll try to find some pertinent stuff for the other STGT weeks, if I can... though I really want to start working on these Gunbird/Mahou Daisakusen/Sengoku Ace comics.
My previous shmupforum translations can be found at this thread, but I will also list them below for convenience: R-Type Developer Interview CollectionGradius Developer Interviews (I, II, Gaiden)Scorer Interview Collection - TAC, LAOS, NAL, MON, etcStella Vanity and Valhellio Developer InterviewsTwo M-KAI Interviews (Eschatos, JSS, Cardinal Sins)Yoshinori Satake - Steel Empire, Over Horizon InterviewArmed Police Batrider Characters/Stages/Bosses translation (w/ NTSC-J)Basiscape Composers Interview - Shooting Gameside #1Cave Shooting History Interview Extravaganza!Doujin Round Table Discussion - Shooting Gameside #1Mushi HD/Saidaioujou Famitsu Cave InterviewRaizing Interview - Sotoyama Yuuichi and Yokoo KenichiMasahiro Yuge - Toaplan interview (Shooting Gameside vol. 4)Tatsuya Uemura - Toaplan interview (Shooting Gameside vol.4)Toaplan Shooting Chronicle Box - Developer Interviews and Game Q&AUemura Tatsuya (Programming and Sound)
Masahiro Yuge (Programming and Sound)
—I thought I'd start by asking you what games are the most memorable for you, or left the deepest impression. By that I mean, are there games you have fond memories of, or ones that you would say "this is Toaplan's most representative work" ?Yuge: Each one has a special place in my heart. One cherished memory I have is of the location test for our first game, Tiger Heli. I decided to visit the game center where the test was to see how much income it had taken, and whether it looked like it would sell. It turned out it had earned a lot! That was my first time experiencing the elation of a commercially successful game, and I was on cloud nine. I was practically skipping on the way home.
Uemura: Was that at the Midori game center?
Yuge: Yeah, it was. Midori in Meguro. After that we always did our location tests there. I remember one day the joystick on one of the machines broke. At the time the speed of the ships in our games was very slow, so someone probably got a little overenthusiastic trying to move it. I remember thinking "They like it so much they broke it!" (laughs)
—Being your first Toaplan release, I can imagine it was all the more memorable. How about you, Uemura?Uemura: Let me see... the period from Tiger Heli, Hishouzame, and to Kyuukyoku Tiger was very fun. That period was the most fun as a developer, but for me personally, Hellfire was extremely difficult to make, so maybe that one. I had never done a horizontal STG, and I didn't like them either. I was told to "make it like Gradius," and I'll never forget how much we struggled trying this and that. So I guess if I had to say what was the most memorable, it'd have to be Hellfire, sadly.
—Aside from STG, were any of Toaplan's other games really well received by the company? I don't mean in a sales sense, but rather games everyone at the company was really excited about.Uemura: Teki Paki, maybe? (laughs)
—Really?! (laughs)Uemura: Everyone was playing it. At Ogikubo (where our main office was located) they had a showroom, and they set Teki Paki up there. Someone was always playing on that machine.
Yuge: That's right. Too bad we weren't collecting 100 yen coins from it. (laugh)
—We didn't include Teki Paki on this cd, so its a bit of a tangent, but the character (block) at the time of the location test was a sphere, but it got changed into a square stone when the game was released. What was the company's reaction to such a fundamental, clearly apparent change to the game?Yuge: I think during the location test that block character was just a dummy placeholder. We had already talked about changing it into a square.
—After I saw Teki Paki at the location test, I was telling everyone "Finally! Toaplan's going to cover the screen in bullets!" (laughs) When I saw the finished game later I was surprised. I felt I had experienced firsthand the fact that Toaplan's games could really change a lot during development. [[tr note: the "bullets" comment is something of a play on words. He uses the katakana of "tama", meaning not a conventional ball/sphere, but any ball/sphere object like a bullet. The joke, of course, comes from the fact that early Toaplan STGs had low (but fast) bullet counts.]]—Now I'd like to ask some questions about the time period leading up to Toaplan's formation. I understand that Orca was the predecessor company, and that Orca's staff became Toaplan's staff. I've heard Orca changed its name a lot, but is there a connection there with the formation of Toaplan?Uemura: They did change their name a lot, didn't they.
Yuge: They did, but there's no connection to Toaplan. Toaplan was not the successor company of Orca; it was a separate company to begin with, Toa Kikaku.
—What was the point at which Orca ended and Toaplan began?Uemura: I think the last incarnation of Orca was Crux.
Gyrodine (Taito, 1984) was probably the final game.
—Orca just kept changing. Can you tell me a little bit about Vastar (Sesame Japan, 1983)?Uemura: Vastar says Sesame Japan, but it was actually developed by Orca. Sesame Japan was another incarnation of Orca. (laughs)
—How was it with Repluse (KYUGO 1985), which you were also involved in, Uemura? During this era of arcade games, debuts by new game developers weren't uncommon, and there were also a lot of developers that operated under the shadow of distribution companies. It can be a very difficult era to understand.Uemura: Repulse was a Crux game, but in the middle of developing it the company dissolved. After that, the remaining members finished it anyway. We were surprised to see it selling later, and wondered if Crux had actually dissolved or not? But they had, legally at least.
—It seems Repulse is the point which really delineates the change from Crux to Toaplan. Uemura: Toaplan had already been founded while we were working on Repulse. Kiyomoto, who had worked at Orca, managed to lure away Ohta, Nozawa, and Takano to join Toaplan, and Yuge and myself joined then too, I believe.
Yuge: I was already working at another company at the point. Kiyomoto called me, and I wanted to work at Toaplan too, so I moved.
Uemura: Toaplan began with only three people. When they asked me to join, I was still working on Repulse, so I asked them if they could wait till I had finished it. My first work for Toapan, as I've mentioned before, was doing music for Performan. I started that after Repulse was finished, but I didn't have time to do the data programming for it, so Yuge did that for me. It was then, after Repulse was all done, that I joined Toaplan, along with Kawaguchi who did the art for Horror Story. Yuge had already joined Toaplan, and so it was right around finishing Performan that the early Toaplan team was fully assembled.
Yuge: Yeah, and it was right at that point where you had your bike crash, right Uemura? That was why I took over the Performan music from you. I remember continuing your work on those songs. (laughs)
Uemura: Is that right? Ah, I remember now... yeah, I think that's how it was. (laughs)
—By Tiger Heli, then, you had all of Toaplan's basic members together.Uemura: Yes, though we didn't have any idea that we would end up being a STG development team.
—That reminds me, in a Toaplan special feature in an old issue Gamest magazine, they said Toaplan's debut game was Tiger Heli. They left Performan out, didn't they? In those early days a lot of developers published under pseudonyms, so maybe it was hard to know it was a Toaplan game, if it wasn't announced to the public.Uemura: That was a contract issue. Data East told us we couldn't put our name on our games. It was awhile before they gave us permission.
—But if you compared the actual Performan PCB to Tiger Heli, you could see they were the same. That's how I figured they were probably developed by the same company.Uemura: That's right. Though I don't really know why Data East was so deadset against us using our own company name...
—For those early titles like Tiger Heli where the distributor put their name on the finished product, did they also pay for the development costs? To have a contract clause that says you can't put your own name on the game, it seems you must have had a strong, hierarchical relationship.Uemura: No, they only handled the distribution. We used our own money for the development. The naming restriction was an arrangement that came only afterward, in the distribution contract.
Yuge: They only handled that business side.
—Do you know why a contract like that was made? Was it simply a request from the distributor?Uemura: Well, I think it was just a matter of the respective strength of each company. Even if we didn't like it, we weren't really in a position to throw our weight around.
—Is that why you never revealed the things you wrote in the name entry for your early games, like the address of Toaplan's office? It seems there weren't many restrictions like the "production standards" we have today. Uemura: Yeah, mainly no one was checking things like that. With contracts and records too, it was a very haphazard, carefree time. We never recorded any trademarks or anything either.
Yuge: Yeah, we didn't do things like that. Everything felt very loose and relaxed.
—Since Taito distributed many of these games, and put their logo on the finished product, you'd think they'd do some basic quality checks?Yuge: There were none. They didn't do bug checks either.
Uemura: That's just how it was back then.
Yuge: Its hard to imagine now, isn't it.
—You developed your games independently and then contracted out the sales and distribution, but how did that work? Did you wait till a game was mostly finished, and then bring it to the distributor? Or did you bring them to the office and show them your various games in development, like making a sales pitch?Yuge: There were cases of both. We'd tell them we're developing STGs right now, and ask them if they'd like to come see them.
Uemura: After awhile our relationship with Taito became fixed to a degree, so it became more like that. There was a time when having Taito handle the distribution was pretty much a known premise of the development.
Yuge: It was pretty normal stuff. Someone from Taito would show up one day, we'd take them out to dinner, and so forth.
—Speaking of the office, what were the actual working conditions during developent? Can you give us a typical example for a game, like how the team was composed, the development schedule, etc?Yuge: Kyuukyoku Tiger was done by 5 people. Uemura and I handled the programming and sound, and we had 3 designers as well.
—At the time you would take roughly half a year to finish a game, right? And the last step was having the designers draw the flyer and promotional art.Yuge: That's right. Our target was to finish in half a year. It got extended a bit sometimes if we found bugs.
—Toaplan's later games had larger development teams, right? For Dogyuun and such. Uemura: Dogyuun was programmed by me and Ishikawa alone, I think? Were there others? We had new hires working on it as part of their training, so I can't clearly remember the exact number of people on the staff.
—So Toaplan's basic style for development teams was to have the same person do programming, planning, and sound?Uemura: That's right. We'd generally have 2-3 programmers and 2-3 designers, then we might add other people individually, even in the latter half of development. I think we added a couple more designers to Dogyuun.
—Your development teams would have a half year to complete the game, then.Uemura: I think that pattern of spending half a year was only up to Kyuukyoku Tiger. Dogyuun took longer that. How long was Tatsujin Ou...?
Yuge: It took a long time, I think?
Uemura: Balancing the difficulty started to get more and more difficult, and players were getting better and better. After the location tests we'd spend a lot of time upping the difficulty.
—From the sidelines, I get the impression that Hellfire and Zero Wing took a long time doing those kinds of adjustments. You said it was your first horizontal STG, so I could see how it would be a struggle, not having the necessary know-how for that style.Yuge: That is true, but we also struggled with difficulty adjustments for our vertical games as well. With Tatsjuin, for example, we wanted the player to feel like he was a "tatsujin" [[expert]] when he played, and getting the difficulty balanced to that end was very challenging.
—When you look at Toaplan's latter days as a whole, what was it like for the different development teams?Yuge: By the end we had around 50 people working there, so there were a lot of teams at that point.
—You started with arcade development, but was there ever a team dedicated to console development? Yuge: No, there wasn't.
—After development teams would get formed, starting with the initial planning, how would projects get started? Did you consult with everyone in their area of expertise?Yuge: Yes, we did follow the "right person for the right place" style of planning. When doing sequels to our vertical STGs, we found it more efficient to use the same people, and they'd be able to bring their ideas and knowledge to the table.
—Please tell us what your initial planning and design documents were like.Yuge: Originally, we didn't make any. Kyuukyoku Tiger was the first game that actually had planning documents. We'd usually just write down the ideas for the game, in text, on a single A4 sheet of paper. We'd read it out at a meeting and say "This is what we want to make. Is it ok?"... and that was it. (laughs)
Uemura: Normally planning documents are made by the developers to get permission from the company to make the game, right? But we didn't have to do that. We simply made we wanted ourselves, so there was no need to present anything beforehand. The people selling our games wouldn't sell them until we were done, so their opinions didn't factor in. It was a good time. (laughs)
Yuge: Though we did have a development planning group, or was it just a general planning group?
Uemura: Yeah, though I don't think they did any planning. (laughs) There was a department with that name, but till the end, it was just all of us submitting our various development ideas. It was kind of like a competition.
Yuge: More than planning docs, we'd usually bring some prototype of the game, I believe.
Uemura: There was never any systematic, organized method for it. It was always totally disorganized. (laughs)
Yuge: It was all left up to the individuals. (laughs)
—If thats the case, I wonder what will become of all these paper documents you've given me! The oldest I have here is Slap Fight, and it looks like there are some original planning documents here.[[tr note: this question is referring to bonus written materials that were included on the same cd-rom this pdf interview is included on. The interviewers were given access to a box of handmade binders, which contained a variety of written materials, illustrations, etc for each game. Those were then digitally scanned for this boxset.]]Yuge: That was added after development, as a postscript. We made those because we needed some written records, for posterity.
—There's other papers here which have stories for the games written up, but were these also done after development was over? The instruction sheets that came with the PCBs also have the stories written there.Uemura: The stories were written after the fact, for the most part. (laughs)
Yuge: (looking over the materials) Yeah, these were all done afterwards. (laughs)
—Of the materials we've collected for this CD-ROM, it looks like we don't have everything, but only a certain portion of it?Uemura: The only illustrations and such that remain are ones we used for magazine interviews, for games that were commercially successful. And the only music transcriptions we have are the ones we wrote for the liner notes.
—I'm guessing those were used for advertising in Gamest? What about "Bee Maga" (computer BASIC magazine)Uemura: Yeah, almost all for Gamest. We did advertise in "Bee Maga" as well, and also "Beep! Megadrive" magazine. But the vast majority of it was for Gamest.
—But Toaplan's later games do tell a story in their attract sequences. Outzone and Dogyuun, for instance. At what point in the development were their stories decided?Uemura: I think it was done when we programmed the attract modes. For games without attract sequences, we'd create the story when we were making the instructions for the PCB.
—If you didn't decide the world and the rules of the game in detail beforehand, and the programmers were working on their own individual stages, didn't people end up doing a lot of redundant or unneccessarywork?Yuge: No, because the way we developed was different from other companies. We always knew what each of us was working on, because the teams were small and we were seeing everything come together in real time.
Uemura: I think Outzone and Fixeight had their stories and worlds fleshed out in advance. Especially with Fixeight, though we didn't work on it, the weapons had to match the characters' personalities and backgrounds, so the story of the game was inseparable from the beginning.
—Back then, words like "system design" and "level design" didn't yet exist, but how did you handle those elements? Did you figure out the game system in detail first, then work on enemy placement; or did you only have a rough idea of the game system before starting?Yuge: We worked on both simultaneously. We never even really thought of dividing it up like that. Of course the game system was roughed in first, but so were the enemies and your ship's weapons as well. It wasn't that we thought consistency and balance would lead to an interesting game... it was more like we were trying to discover those moments in the game that make you go "yes! this is cool!" Once we found that, we'd expand upon it and refine it.
Uemura: One of the first things we'd set, naturally, was the player ship system. We'd rough it in first, make adjustments to our liking, and then start building everything around that, like the way enemies move.
—I would think that working on both enemies and the ship system at the same time would mean that if a problem arises, it would be difficult to tell where it comes from. But I remember that during the location tests for Zero Wing, I noticed one day that the laser didn't penetrate every enemy as normal anymore. I remember being surprised, "wow, even this far into the development, and they're still tuning the system."Yuge: We were able to do that precisely because we worked on them together. By "together" I mean, the same person was working on both enemies and ship systems. If we had divided it among two people, things would have gotten disconnected.
—I'm surprised you had the extra time, given how many things you juggling.Uemura: I don't think our system would work in a game company today. But we had a small staff, and development model that allowed us to finish games in a short period, so we had that extra time for experimentation.
—Do you think the high degree of polish in your games was a result of that experimentation?Uemura: I think so, definitely. At the time we knew other game companies would do their planning beforehand and separately, but we thought "our games are interesting because we DON'T do that." We prided ourselves on our way.
Yuge: I agree.
—When it came to finalizing the game, who ultimately made the decisions? Who decided how far to go?Yuge: There wasn't really any one person who had such powers. (laughs) We worked on it until everyone thought it was done.
—Weren't you worried about deadlines, or not having the program code done in time for the ROM production?Uemura: We didn't have deadlines. (laughs)
Yuge: We didn't have deadlines, but we kept to our original development schedule, more or less. You can't run a company otherwise, of course.
—Were there ever financial circumstances that influenced your deadlines? Like trying to finish something in time for the fiscal year?Yuge: Not really.
Uemura: For better or for worse, we were really a "development-centric" company. Everyone, including management, really showed the developers a lot of consideration.
Yuge: And being that we were developing for the arcades, we were able to adjust and change things up to the last moment.
—I imagine not having to be told what to do by the distribution companies helped, as well?Yuge: Yeah, they almost never did that.
Uemura: And when one of us objected to their requests, we just didn't do it. (laughs)
—With so much control over everything, what aspect of development took the most time?Yuge: Adjusting the difficulty, definitely.
—Were those adjustments influenced by the results of the location tests?Yuge: At times, yes. Having to satisfy both the users who will play your game and the arcade operators who have economic interests was definitely the hardest part.
Uemura: Yeah, that dilemma often came up. We were told to make our games so that "One credit for 3 minutes", but we said you can't make an interesting game like that.
—When a new game is finished and reaches us, the first thing that catches our eye is the title. When you talk about Toaplan's games, I think you can't avoid mentioning their titles. "Tiger Heli" is pretty conventional, but I think "Hishouzame" was a turning point. Yuge: Yeah, when we saw the design for the Hishouzame title logo, we were like, "this is awesome!" It has a lot of impact when it appears on screen.
—You also used "same" (shark) in place of "tiger" for Same! Same! Same! Where did that come from?Yuge: Its actually quite simple. "Tiger" sounds strong, and so we said, what other animal sounds strong? And we chose the shark. (laughs)
—Its a fish, though. (laughs)Yuge: We only cared that it sounded tough. When we showed the finished logo to Iwabuchi, he said "aa, cool!"
—English titles were so popular in the 80s, but Toaplan kept putting out Japanese titles like "Hishouzame" and "Kyuukyoku Tiger." Were you concerned at all about using kanji in your STG titles?Uemura: We didn't do it because we felt "we have to use kanji!" or anything like that. We didn't think that way. Though later everyone said to us "Toaplan, they always use kanji."
—I think you were known for making titles that sounded cool, but in Japanese. Was there a person at Toaplan who was mainly responsible for that?Yuge: No, I think our games just acquired that flavor naturally. When we first presented the title Kyuukyoku Tiger, the president rejected it. "What the hell is that?" was his reaction. (laughs) We explained to him that "Ultimate means you pilot a ship with firepower thats never been seen before in a STG, so its the 'ultimate' tiger."
—For your later titles, you didn't just use kanji, but made words with their own unique feel, like "Dogyuun!" Those ones had a different kind of image, but still made us go "cool!" Was someone at Toaplan instructing you to make titles like that?Uemura: No, no one was. Other than Dogyuun, I think all of our later titles were more conventional though. Ah, there was Batsugun too. By the way, I'm the one who suggested the title Dogyuun, and I'm also the one who approved it. (laughs)
—By the way, one thing I'm curious about is titles that got changed during development. In these materials you gave us, I see a logo for "Captain Lancer" as a prior name for Hellfire. I'm guessing there must have been a discussion about changing the name at some point?Uemura: Yeah, why did it become Hellfire, I wonder? I don't remember being told to change it, but we may have been asked to.
—I heard V-V also had its title changed in the middle of development. I remember it was something like "Bakuretsu Wing"? [[Exploding Wing]]Yuge: It was something like that...
Uemura: I think that was just a provisional draft title we had at the start. It was normal for us to do that, and change the title to something more final late.
—Though with Hishouzame, you were saying that title was decided early on.Uemura: If it was good to begin with, we went with it.
—Was there any person at Toaplan who came up with a lot of your titles, or always had interesting ideas?Uemura: No, usually we'd just gather all the interesting ideas we'd all come up with and have someone choose from among them.
—Finally, I'd like to move our conversation toward the main purpose of this CD box set, Toaplan's music. I think the multiple roles filled by the developers, of planning/programming/sound, is one of Toaplan's characteristic features. With so many different tasks to complete, at what point in the development did you do the sound? Yuge: It depended on the particular game, but sound was something we couldn't really do at the same time as everything else. When you're really involved in the programming, you can't just switch over to sound. You couldn't just do a little bit, then work on something else.
Uemura: Our early prototypes didn't have sound added, and they were really uninteresting. (laughs)
Yuge: We'll never show those to anyone. (laughs)
—When you're in the middle of developing, and you've been adjusting the system and the enemies, playing the game over and over... do you ever get ideas for music during that time?Uemura: In my case, I worked on the music after that work was done. Even though I try to think of ideas while we're programming the game, I always get distracted. I wrote all my music at the very end, though I'd write one or two songs earlier, for the location test.
—When you did the data programming for the music, you never had problems getting the stage progression and your music to sync up precisely?Uemura: I didn't write my music to be synced up so precisely. Getting the right feel was more important for me. Depending on the placement of certain enemies, though, I would try to get the chorus or hook of the song to generally align with the stage progression.
—When I hear that, I think of the stage 5 of Hishouzame. If you don't get past that hard part in the port, you don't get to hear that glittering chorus. Yuge, since you wrote your music earlier in the development, were you more conscious of syncing up with the stages?Yuge: That was my intention when I made my music.
—And for Uemura's opposite approach, I imagine there are also ways to get your music to match up to the already finished stages. Uemura: Well, in the end, because we used checkpoints when you die, I always thought it was kind of meaningless even if you did sync everything up precisely.
—Hearing all this, I really feel like I appreciate the difference between your two approaches to STG music.Yuge: If there's 5 stages in a game, you want the music to bring out each stage's personality and character. It was easiest to make the music with that image of the stage in mind. There were also times when I'd write a certain melody or rhythm, and then program the enemies to move according to it.
—Regarding the actual way you made the music, you touched on it a bit earlier, but my impression is of Uemura playing guitar, and Yuge on piano. Did you actually compose with those instruments?Yuge: Yeah, and I also wrote on guitar sometimes. My music didn't start out sequenced; I wrote out rough versions of almost all the music on sheet paper first. After that I would continue putting it together in front of the computer.
Uemura: I didn't write my music out, but played everything by ear. The music transcriptions in the CDs were done later, for those CDs. After I had come up with the music in my head, I'd sit in front of the keyboard and look for sounds while I programmed the data in. I was never able to sight read, so it would have been pointless for me to write the music out first.
—For the actual sound chips on the PCBs, although the technology kept improving, I got the impression from your music that you kept updating the sound drivers you used to emulate the new features available. Was someone working on that?Yuge: That would be me. It was the same sound driver I wrote from my z80 days. Once we were able to use FM sound, our freedom for music composition really went up, and I made the sound drivers more complex in turn.
—There's one thing I've always wondered about with your sound drivers. Why, for each sound, did you prepare a separate "cancel" or "pause" sound--that is, a silence?Yuge: I made those to free up the sound channels. Its for important sounds that need to interrupt the music, like sound effects.
—Was it intentional, to keep the bass sounds untouched, but have the sound effects share the channels of the melodies, so that the composition itself would seem to change while playing?Yuge: No, we weren't thinking that deeply about it. We just wanted a way to stop the sounds as simply as possible, which from a programming perspective would free up resources with the main CPU.
Uemura: The sound driver wasn't geared towards musicians, it was completely geared toward our work as programmers.
—At the start of the interview I asked which of the games you developed did you feel were most representative, or particularly memorable. Likewise, as composers, what music have you created that left a deep impression on you, or that you'd particularly like people to hear?Yuge: Stage 4 of Tatsujin Ou.
Uemura: My favorite? Hmmm...
Yuge: I can tell you what I think Uemura's most representative work is.
Uemura: Which?
TSUGARU? (laughs)
Yuge: Yeah, that's the one. Its the best. (laughs)
—I actually thought that since you decided to remix "Dogyuun Magic," you'd say that was your favorite.Uemura: Ah, well I did that arrange version just because it was the first track. You liked Dogyuun's soundtrack? I like the
stage 3 music.
—There's often a slight difference between what the composer likes and what the player likes. With Tatsujin Ou, for instance, I've heard there were many players who practiced to get to stage 5, just to hear the music for that stage.Yuge: Generally speaking, the things you love aren't recognized by others. (laughs)
—A moment ago Yuge gave his favorite Uemura track, but Uemura, what do you think Yuge's best tracks are?Uemura: (laughs) Well... Kyuukyoku Tiger's
first stage has a strong band feel to it, which matches my interests, so naturally I like that one. I like
stage 3 also.
Stage 5 has a different atmosphere, and I know many people who like that one. I like the band feel in stages 1 and 3 though.
—I have to wrap things up soon, but I'd like to say that even today, you can see the influence of Toaplan STG in modern STGs. What do you think of the legacy you've left, looking back? Uemura: I don't think we made that big of an impact...
—No, you really did! Looking at various STGs today, there are numerous gameplay elements that reflect Toaplan's ideas. Uemura: We always say that our games were made to be fun and exhilirating. I think you can see that in the way we programmed our bomb system. But I think that element of STGs, I mean simple exhiliration, really hasn't been carried on.
—I think there are probably many players today who play your games just for that feeling. Do you have any message for those players today?Uemura: We are simply very grateful. We're unbelievably lucky as developers, to have been able to do the things we wanted, and have people enjoy them so long after. I think its usually the reverse, that as time goes on, you see how stale and uninspired your work was. So to see there's a space where people are talking about our games even today, is practically unbelievable for me. I can really only express my gratefulness. Thank you very much.
Yuge: I feel exactly the same way, and it really makes me happy. At the time we had no idea our games would turn out like this, we were just doing what we loved. I'm happy we were able to do that, and to the people who still remember our work today, I bow my head in thanks.
—I think its really us as fans who can never express our thanks to you enough. Even though our grades suffered and we used all our allowance up on your games. (laughs) We were in love with these worlds, and you let us enter them. Thank you very much. Finally, as my last question, what was "Toaplan" to each of you? Uemura: What was Toaplan to me... what was it indeed?
Yuge: It was my second youth.
Uemura: Maybe so, it was truly a fun time in my life, working there.
Yuge: The other employees all the say the same thing, about how fun it was then. It was a rare thing for a game development company, I think.
Uemura: I can't really express in words what Toaplan was to me, though.
Yuge: It has a special place in our memory.
Uemura: Definitely... perhaps thats why my old mind can't find the right words. (laughs)
Yuge: Those 10 years were a time of great upheaval and change for us. Starting from nothing, we steadily brought more and more titles out, and then right at our zenith, it all fell apart, like a stone you've pushed atop a hill. I have so many memories of it all.
—That sense of vigor and growth is really reflected in Toaplan's games, even in the titles. I think you succeeded in sharing that high tension feeling of "full speed ahead" with us. Thank you so much for sharing your memories and stories today. Indivudal Game Q&A with Yuge and UemuraTiger HeliFor Tiger Heli, we were aiming for a game where the stressful sections and the fun, exhilirating sections would be clearly delineated. We wanted a game that would make you want to play it again after you died, and make you think you could get just a little further. It turns out the replay rate on Tiger Heli was very high, so I think we succeeded in that goal.
At this time, our PCB hardware couldn't do graphic transparencies, so we had all these tricks, like expressing an object's shadow by high speed sprite flickering. We wanted the bomb graphics to be more filled in and detailed, also, but that was a hardware limitation. (Yuge)
Q. Please tell us the history and reasons behind the decision to make the ship speed so slow.
A. There's a definite connection between high speed and that feeling of exhiliration, but if we made the ship faster, we'd have to make the bullets faster in order to keep the difficulty balanced, and we wanted to avoid doing that. We wanted beginners to be able to see the bullets clearly, so making the bullet speed slower was important. Another reason was that increasing the ship speed allows the player more freedom of movement, but that would mean that the make the routes the player could plan through each stage would become much more sloppy, and less strategic.
Q. At the time, including a "bomb" in a STG was a novel idea. Where did that idea come from?
A. During development we kept asking ourselves how we could make things fun, and the bomb system was what we arrived at. We didn't originally intend for it to be used by players as an emergency save. We added it as an aggressive, thrilling weapon you could use to turn the tables on the enemies with a single shot. It ended up being useful as an emergency save, too, but if you want to experience the strategy of the game as we planned it, its probably better not to use the bomb that way.
Q. In Tiger Heli, and about half of Toaplan's other games, at the name entry screen, the background continues to scroll. What was the intention behind that?
A. It was like a "sneak preview" of the next episode of a drama. We hoped players would see a little further ahead and want to play again. By the way, the way the tank's cannons follow after the name entry cursor wasn't done intentionally. It happened because we used the same sprite memory for the cursor that was used for the ship.
Q. Starting in the second loop, why do you start from stage 2, not stage 1?
A. We thought stage 1 was too easy for successive loops. There's too few enemies, and it wouldn't be interesting to just speed up the bullets for them, so we skipped it.
Q. The background graphics in Tiger Heli have a style we would call "polygonal" today. Was there any reason behind that choice?
A. Actually, around that time we were doing research for a flight simulator program we might develop. The designer used a sample image from that simulator in Tiger Heli. As for the simulator itself, we continued working on it up till the very end of Toaplan, but we never announced it publicly.
Slap FightSlap Fight's appeal was to revolve around hidden items and the weapon power-up system; we wanted it to be a game you could play for a long time. We hoped people would play it again and again, trying to find all the hidden items and trying out the techniques they'd heard rumours about.
The way you became invicible whenever you changed weapons was meant to be one of the strategic elements of the game, also. Unfortunately, we had to use the same PSG chip as from Tiger Heli, so we couldn't fulfill our ambitions with the sound until later. (Yuge)
Q. At one point did the capsule and gauge power-up system get added to the game?
A. From the beginning. We started development knowing we wanted to make that kind of game.
Q. Regarding each weapon's function and role in the game, how was that decided?
A. We'd think of what weapon would be good for a certain part of the game, then we'd make sure there were enough power-ups for you to switch to it. If you're aware of that, you can always have the right weapon for each section, and if you play enough you'll probably figure it out.
Q. Slap Fight has so many hidden features. Were they all planned from the beginning?
A. We knew we wanted to have some kind of hidden secrets at the beginning, and we kept adding to the idea as development progressed. The secrets that you need a certain weapon for were supposed to help you remember which weapon is best for a certain part. This idea later influenced us in Tatsujin, where we made it so you needed a specific weapon to get the 1UP.
Q. The ship option, another secret, can be controlled by a player sitting across from you on a cocktail cabinet. Who came up with that idea?
A: That was Lee Ohta's idea, to give the person across from you something to do.
Q. There are two versions of the Slap Fight PCB; did those differences have anything to do with the development?
A. No, we weren't aware of that when developing. We only made one master program. That was probably due to circumstances with the production.
HishouzameThe theme for Hishouzame was a realistic depiction of war that would involve the player emotionally. We had the atmosphere of the film "Apocalypse Now" in mind. We had taken a company trip to Thailand, and we wanted to convey the mood of the scenery there in the game's backgrounds.
We were also excited to use the new 16 bit CPU, the MC68000. We had graduated from PSG sound as well, and now were using FM sound. If there were something I could change about Hishouzame, I'd like to try making the stages longer. (Yuge)
Q. There were a number of significant hardware improvements for Hishouzame, but which do you feel had the biggest impact on evolving your games?
A. Because we could now put more sprites onscreen, we suddenly had a lot more possibilities regarding the game system and what we could express. Whenever hardware was going to be upgraded, Toaplan would ask the opinion of the programmers, and we noted that most of our games were vertical shooters, so we chose the hardware on that premise. Having more elements on screen really opened things up for us.
Q. With Hishouzame, enemies now aimed their shots at the ships more accurately. How did you accomplish that?
A. That was mainly a software problem, but the increased processing speed of the CPU was also related. We did tests to see whether the enemies could hit the ship at any given location on the screen. Then we were able to determine the details involving the vectors and direction of the enemy bullets. To tell the truth, the algorithms I used to determine bullet direction had some idiosyncracies. The directional cross the bullets used for aiming wasn't done perfectly, and the angles were not exactly evenly spaced. It may be that this contributed to the game's character, though.
Q. Why did you make the small boats so treacherous? (laughs)
A. We didn't want to make a game that players needed really good reflexes or hand eye coordination to clear. We wanted it to be cleared by the tricks and knowledge the player had accumulated through playing. The word "memorizer" didn't exist then, but that's the kind of game we were trying to develop. So the small boats are just one part of that overall goal.
Q. Starting with Hishouzame, you could scroll the screen horizontally by moving left and right. Was there a specific reason for adding that?
A. I think we just wanted people to get more immersed in the world of the game.
Q. Why was the power up item "S" for Hishouzame?
A. S is for SHOT. From Tatsujin on we used P, but we just weren't thinking about it very deeply during Hishouzame. (laughs)
Kyuukyoku TigerNaturally, STGs are about the thrill of blowing stuff up, but we wanted a game where, just by looking at it, you could tell it would be fun to play even when you're drunk. In fact, we enjoyed playing it drunk ourselves.
One day I was in the city and I saw some imposing tough guy pounding the Kyuukyoku Tiger cabinet with all his strength after Game Over flashed on screen. I thought we'd succeeded in make a game that people could get passionate about. (Yuge)
Q. How did you decide on the order the shot items would cycle through?
A. We never tested other combinations. We wanted it to start with the most standard weapon, and then cycle through the progressively more complex weapons. People thought the yellow weapon was a penalty weapon, but that was just their speculation. We programmed it to be useful in cerain places, though you can also handle those parts without it if you're properly powered up.
Q. Everytime you to get an item in Kyuukyoku Tiger, it makes a motion like its trying to get away from you. Was this also intentional?
A. It isn't trying to get away. It just happens to feel that way, but its definitely not programmed to move away from the player!
Q. When you restart after dying, and then die immediately after, you end up starting back further in the map. Why was that done?
A. That was definitely in our programming, but it wasn't an intentional feature. For programming purposes, the endpoint of the screen is actually a little bigger than the screen itself, and if you die before the screen scrolls past this section, the game thinks you've died in the previous section and you go back to the previous recovery point.
Q. At what point did you make the 2P simultaneous play version?
A. It wasn't there to begin with. 2P simultaneous games were apparently a big trend overseas, so we were requested to add it. I believe we actually did the work for it after the 1P version had been completed. Kyuukyoku Tiger had a realistic war setting, and we were conscious of the American market from the beginning. So it wasn't out of the ordinary for us to do that.
TatsujinI wanted to make a game where the more you remembered, the better you would become. I focused on adding a lot of sections where you needed a specific weapon to deal with certain attacks. One day, when I was half-asleep, I bumped my head and woke up from a dream I was having with this Laser in it... so I really wanted to add that too. (laughs)
We succeeded in bringing that laser to life, and players were surprised by it. The skull bomb Naoki Ogiwara designed was also very cool and impressive. The truth is, we were thinking about redesigning all the enemy placement for the second loop, but the idea was never realized. Its too bad. (Yuge)
Q. What was the reason for including speed-ups this time?
A. It allowed us more latitude with setting the enemy bullet speeds.
Q. Were the various safespots intentionally added?
A. Yes, they were. Though there were also spots that we only became aware of later.
Q. As much as you can remember, can you tell us what changes took place during development with setting the difficulty?
A. One thing that was difficult in the beginning was that, for memorizers, there are many sections where if you initially make them too easy to learn, they become boring after you've memorized them.
Q. Ground enemies won't fire at you if you're within a certain proximity to them. How did this idea come about?
A. We didn't want people to think the game was unfair. If the player's deaths weren't satisfying, he wouldn't want to play again.
Q. Starting with Tatsujin, your boards started to have features like invincibility modes and sound tests on them. Why were these left in?
A. Around this time we started to do more magazine articles and game music CDs, so we thought it was convenient to leave those features in.
Q. Why didn't you add a 2P cooperative mode like in Kyuukyoku Tiger?
A. It was clearly against the theme of the game, and it would make the memorization meaningless. It would have really damaged the game's character.
Q. There seem to be a lot of enemy designs in Tatsujin that use the human face as a motif. Was there someone at Toaplan these were based off?
A. No, there wasn't. Aside from the laser, the designs are all Naoki Ogiwara's unique work. Maybe he used his own face? They say that since artists train by doing self-portraits, they unconsciously make other faces look like their own.
HellfireWe started this game because we wanted to see if Toaplan could make a great horizontal STG, too. But it was a series of one hardship after the other, and we experienced firsthand that the "exhiliration" Toaplan always seeked in its games couldn't be achieved in a horizontal format.
I think horizontal STG requires a different kind of appeal. You need the technical know-how for dealing with terrain, and various other different game design ideas to make it interesting. We were inexperienced with everything and it was a real struggle, but we did our best and finished it. (Uemura)
Q. With Hellfire, you began to put Toaplan's name on the title screen. How did this come about?
A. We were always asking Taito to let us put our name out there, but I think it was around Hellfire where Taito first recognized our "Toaplan Shooting" reputation.
Q. What were some of the points you struggled on with Hellfire, as your first horizontal STG?
A. The system for a horizontal game, with terrain you can collide into, is fundamentally different from a vertical STG. We didn't know how to make the game interesting, and none of our expertise from our vertical games carried over.
Q. In the early location tests, if you got hit by enemy bullet while you were powered up, you didn't die, but you just powered down one level. What was the reason behind such a different system?
A. I don't remember how we finally settled on the game system, but what you describe came from trying to lower the frustration of collisions with terrain, so we tried to make the game easier with regard to enemy bullets.
Q. Starting with Hellfire your games had menu-based test modes. Were those modes done by your development group's collective work?
A. I think it was based on Taito's code at first, and I remember we just added what we needed at the time.
Q. Which did you develop first, the 2P coop version or the 1P version? There's a Japanese 2P version this time, but which did you intend to be the finished product?
A. At Toaplan single player was always our basic focus. But there was a lot of pressure at that time to make 2P games, and decided to make Hellfire 2P from the beginning. So as far as the game system goes, we worked on both versions together.
Zero WingThis title was created as a training project for our new hires. At that time we didn't have any plans to release it commercially. But the decision to release it commercially made it a much more practical learning experience for the new developers, I think. On the other hand, the stage design and characters were rather cobbled together, so the world of the game was kind of a mess. (Uemura)
Q. Uemura, your work on Zero Wing can be seen as a continuation of your work on Hellfire, but how did you get involved with the project?
A. I had been handling new hire training for awhile, and we used my work on Hellfire as teaching materials for them.
Q. Why did you divide the game's soundtrack among three people?
A. It wasn't a special team or anything, we were just dividing the work up.
Q. You made both a 1P and 2P version, but when did each get made?
A. Like Hellfire, we made both the 1P and 2P version at the same time. We planned it that way from the beginning. But, of course, the single player version represents the Toaplan style.
Q. In the Megadrive version opening sequence (which is especially famous overseas), was the
background music made after the fact, for the port?
A. I just watched this on Youtube again, and while I have certain nostalgic memories of it, I can't remember whether I did it or not. Just listening to it, it doesn't sound like something I did, and was probably added later. It also feels like it may have been added by someone outside Toaplan... but the atmosphere, melodies, and development of the song do feel like something I would have requested.
Q. The
ending song in the Megadrive version is also different, but why was that done? I'd also like to know why the
arcade ending song is so comical.
A. Zero Wing wasn't originally meant to be released commercially, nor was the music. It was just a simple gag, with no special meaning. As for the Megadrive version, I don't remember, but perhaps our joking around wasn't suitable for the port? It was probably something like that.
Q. In later loops enemies shoot suicide bullets, but why did you do this rather than the normal increase in speed, bullets, and enemies on screen?
A. I think it was because there were sprite display limitations, so that we chose suicide bullets as our way of raising the difficulty.
Q. Who came up with the alien Pipiru?
A. Our designer Naoki Ogiwara created him, but I don't think he was planned in advance. He was just playing around.
Q. Why did you add the "warps" in Zero Wing, which hadn't been featured since Slap Fight?
A. That was also just in the spirit of play. It was a training project, and we had a lot of freedom to just fool around.
Same! Same! Same!Our goal for Same! Same! Same!, as a sequel to Hishouzame, was to bring out the same strengths of that game. For that Toaplan thrill, we added places where you could burn everything up with the super-flashy flamethrower.
I was really pleased with the way the fire moves and sways. It came out just as I had imagined it. Things like the pallette changing desert backgrounds were designed by Shintarou Nakaoka, and I think they brought out something fresh and new. One regret I have is not being able to balance the difficulty in a way that would fully satisfy both game center owners and players. (Yuge)
Q. Why is there such a huge difference in difficulty between the 1P and 2P versions?
A. There was a lot of pressure to make games that would bring in a lot of income for arcade operators. We fought about that a lot. We had to accomodate our work to this sales/business perspective, and we were forced to make a game that would, in the short term, build a lot of income. I regret it. I'm glad we were able to fix that for the Megadrive port.
Q. Why did you add a loop clear bonus at the ending?
A. Being so difficult (even clearing one loop is a struggle), we wanted to reward the player.
Q. At the first location test, the name entry screen showed your progress with the loops and stages cleared. Did you think people would be playing it that long, even then?
A. Yes, at the time there were many players who were competing at that level, and we were aware of them.
Q. Whose idea was it to include the scene with the people on the ground moving around before the ships take off?
A. Our designer Nakaoka drew that as part of the background, and I said "since you've already done this much, let's make them move!"
Q. Why do you fire off a bomb when you get hit?
A. Its sort of a last bit of futility, and to make players feel unsatisfied over dying with bombs in stock.
Tatsujin OuI only worked on the sound for this title. As far as the coding goes, it was our first time using PCM sound, so we wanted to preserve our old style while challenging ourselves with new ideas. For the ship sound effects, I wanted to try programming them all by myself. I finished the MC6800 sound driver, and the PCM sound really expanded the limits of what I could express. So I think, as far as sound effects go, it was a great achievement for us. (Yuge)
Q. Please tell us about revisions and decisions concerning the difficulty level.
A. I was locked in my sound room during the development, and I left the programming up to the team.
Q. You used both OPM and PCB sound, but what were the differences between the two? Were you satisfied with that arrangement?
A. Due to certain space and memory issues with PCM, I used it mainly for drum sounds. This helped bring out the more melodic side of the FM sounds, so I was happy with it.
Q. The PCB hardware you were using didn't come equipped with any sound CPUs. How did you come to use such hardware?
A. The costs for using PCM had gone up. That's why we didn't use a z80 driver, but had to make the MC6800 driver.
Q. The internal music data is recorded in stereo. Was that because you expected the hardware to be capable of playing back stereo, or was it done in advance for console ports?
A. I remember we tried that because we were expecting to release a Tatsujin Ou music CD.
Q. Do you remember any other alternate titles for Tatsujin Ou?
A. I don't clearly remember any specific titles, but we wanted to avoid things like "Tatsujin II." We wanted to avoid numerical designations like that, because we wanted to draw people's attention to the fact that these were new games, not mere sequels.
Dogyuun!For this title, our goal was to make a game with the best graphics we had ever done in Toaplan (from a design, not technical, standpoint). People had pointed out that our past games were a little weak in graphics presentation. The stage 2 boss in Dogyuun is representative of our efforts; we spent a lot of time animating big bosses like that, and I think we succeeded in making something with a lot of visual impact. However, because we made graphics the top priority, the actual gameplay was kind of unimaginative. It was a shame we couldn't balance both. (Uemura)
Q. In the final stage your ship becomes a giant robot, but what was the history behind that?
A. Our original designs called for the protagonist to be a giant robot, but since we couldn't make that game (laughs), we put it in the last stage as a surprise for players.
Q. There's a long opening sequence in the attract mode. What was the reason you emphasized the story so much this time?
A. In order to let the graphics have their full impact, it was important that the world of the game be displayed to players.
Q. When the 5th loop starts, the game freezes. Was this a bug you missed?
A. I didn't know about that. (laughs) There wasn't anyone in our development team who could clear 5 loops.
Q. Why did you choose a game system with no power-ups, only weapon changing?
A. Flashiness was the core of the game, so visually we needed the weapons to be at full power.
Q. When did you realize during development that there were infinite patterns that would cause the game to counterstop?
A. I don't think we knew about that.
V-VI only worked on sound for this title, also. The team was entirely new hires, so I did teach them technical things, but I let them develop the game and code as much as possible.
The ROM space for the sound driver was extremely small (128kb), so I had to come up with workarounds in the sound driver so that the whole musical scale could be used. But we were also able to use new guitar and synth sounds, so that was good. But I really regret that we couldn't add PCM sound to the hardware due to budget costs. (Yuge)
Q. Was this planned as a sequel or remake of Slap Fight?
A. Several people on the development team were really into Kyuukyoku Tiger and Tatsujin before joining Toaplan, so I don't think so.
Q. Was it planned to not use PCM sound and keep the costs down on the PCB production?
A. We did it that way to clear out our inventory of sound chips. We resisted, and told them we couldn't make a good game without good hardware... but in the end we had to give in, even though we didn't want to.
Q. If I recall, V-V was featured on a television variety show, where people were competing for first loop clear scores. Were the developers aware of that?
A. I don't remember that scene, but we all talked about this one scene in a television drama. The actor was pretending to play during the attract mode... (embarassment)
Extra QuestionsQ. When Toaplan went bankrupt, were there STGs you were in the middle of developing?
A. (Uemura) We weren't developing any STGs then. I think "Otenki Paradise" was all that remained?
Q. Of all Toaplan's games, which are you personally most skilled at?
A. (Uemura) I think Hishouzame or Kyuukyoku Tiger. Since I intentionally programmed the strategic patterns needed for each area, I know when and where enemies appear. I really did a lot of experimenting with tuning the difficulty, and I got good during that time. Of course I'm nowhere near as good as some of the players out there...
A. (Yuge) Tatsujin. I did all the programming for it, from enemy bullet patterns to enemy placement. But... 15 years ago, when I was working at Capcom's offices, an employee who sat behind me would sometimes bring his Tatsujin board to work. He asked me to play, and a huge crowd gathered around me, but I sadly lost all my lives at the first boss! Everyone was disappointed.
Q. Your sound chips evolved from PSG-->OPL-->OPM (+PCM). What kind of requests did you have for the sound as developers, and how did you decide which sound chips to use?
A. (Uemura) The development team (that is to say, me) was always asking to use the newest music hardware, but Toaplan wanted to keep costs low. By the time we were using OPL, OPM had become the standard for everyone else.
A. (Yuge) Toaplan produced its own hardware, so if there were chips left in stock, we had to use them all up before getting the OK to switch to new chips.
Q. Were you inspired or influenced by games from other companies?
A. (Uemura) Generally, we had a tendency to follow our own inclinations, so I don't think there was anything we were particularly influenced by. Though in the early days, I remember everyone loved
Halley's Comet (Taito, 1986) for its simplicity and excitement.
A. (Yuge) I was very into Xevious (Namco, 1983) for its calculated enemy placement, and
Star Force (Tehkan, 1984) for being fun and exciting. I think they influenced me a lot. As for game music, I loved the music of Gradius (Konami, 1985), but unfortunately I was not born with such talent in my genes, and I couldn't make music that sounded similar.
Q. Regarding enemy design, was it the designers who established the way enemies would attack through their designs? Or did the programmers come up with bullet patterns and enemy toughness parameters on their own?
A. (Uemura) In general, Toaplan very much tended to be "programmer-driven." Though our designer Naoki Ogiwara was very vocal about his requests.
A. (Yuge) Those things were mainly dictated by the programmers. When the designers asked us to do things for parts of the game that weren't already preset, it was always requests like "an enemy with tons of cannons all over."
Q. A relatively large number of your games have maps that are connected and continue to scroll between the levels (the screen is not wiped with a score/intermission screen). Why did you design them this way?
A. (Uemura) When the maps are connected like that, it makes the world of the game feel more unified. Depending on the setting we didn't always connect them, like in Dogyuun and Hellfire, where you fight in a variety of locations. It wasn't something we had to do every game.
A. (Yuge) For the games I programmed, I didn't want to interrupt the player's feeling of progress, and I wanted to preserve that tension you get from STGs.
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Huge thanks again! Coincidentally I'm wearing a Toaplan t-shirt today.
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