Counterfeit Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire Warning

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ResOGlas
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Post by ResOGlas »

visuatrox wrote:Well I guess it would be possible they are sunfaded, or that they have been misprinted. From past experiences though looking at the numbers/ID on the data side of the CD can give a pretty good hint on whether it is a bootleg or not (that part seems to be difficult to replicate or overlooked by most bootleggers, even though the ID text may be the same the font often is not identical)

Wow, I never even though about the ID groove. I say that the people whom purchased these should check compared to an "authentic" one to see what's up.
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CIT
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Post by CIT »

I've seen a counterfeit and original Sapphire side by side and the fake is quite obvious up close. Two give aways are the grainy print quality that is especially evident in high detzail areas, such as the little pictures of the Arcade Cards on the back, and that the tear.off strip is about 2cm from the bottom edge, whereas with the original it is only about 0.5cm from the bottom. I've heard rumors though that new counterfeits have surfaced with a closer to real tear-off strip.

Here's a very useful comparison of fake and original, detailing the color differences (in Italian but easy to understand):

http://www.federico.biz/speciale_sapphire.htm
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Nemo
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Post by Nemo »

I think the older bootlegs were Asian produced and the new ones are coming from Switzerland. The easiest way to tell is the orange triangle on the front is dotted whereas it's solid with the bootlegs. The disc also has a larger metallic ring in the center.

DC906270 wrote:
I touched on this earlier, but a lot of gaming things are worth spending $300 on, mainly hardware and PCBs,
I wouldn't consider buying a PCB, as you can play most on MAME, plus PCB's have limited life span. Also, i consider console games to have better gameplay than the arcade versions, as they are not solely preoccupied with swallowing your coins. they tend to be fairer, and more skill orientated. how many people spend $75 on a brand new domestic PS2 game, which then subsequently they sell on for $10? a few of these and you have wasted well over $300. i don't waste much money on other things, but pce games and other collectable games from that era of gaming is one of my vices. i agree that sapphire as a game is probably not worth the money, but as ceph has stated, it is the price you must pay to experience it.
Playing MAME is the equivalent of bootlegging, the only difference is the player gets an inferior experience. And I'm not here to tell anyone what they can spend their money on, I only offer advice because there are too many gaming myths about these so called "elusive gems". If you're happy with your purchase more power to you. Most people that buy Sapphire probably don't really care if it sucks or not since the majority of them are purely collectors and owning it is just a status symbol.
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

As a full time earner I don't consider any game to be too expensive. As long as my investment can be cashed in for 90% of my buying price I am happy.

I am more pissed off at buying a new car or a launch Sony product than a $300 game. I know there are far too many people in the world that just want something because its "rare" or a little more expensive, but thats life and you don't have to be one of them.
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DC906270
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Post by DC906270 »

I wish i had the money and the space to collect pcb's :(
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Bar81
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Post by Bar81 »

Seven Force wrote:I've seen a counterfeit and original Sapphire side by side and the fake is quite obvious up close. Two give aways are the grainy print quality that is especially evident in high detzail areas, such as the little pictures of the Arcade Cards on the back, and that the tear.off strip is about 2cm from the bottom edge, whereas with the original it is only about 0.5cm from the bottom. I've heard rumors though that new counterfeits have surfaced with a closer to real tear-off strip.

Here's a very useful comparison of fake and original, detailing the color differences (in Italian but easy to understand):

http://www.federico.biz/speciale_sapphire.htm
DUDE, THANK YOU!!! I've been looking for a visual guide to the bootlegs for quite a while.
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Ceph
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Post by Ceph »

Hey Seven Force, thanks a lot! I had never seen a fake close up.

The arcade cards on the back of the fakes are much grainier- it's pretty easy to tell them apart. And, like I said before, Sapphire's vest is really pink, while on the fakes it's blue. Pretty obvious even without closer inspection.

Also, all yellow is too dark in the fake, making Sapphire's face look almost orange. The top of the katakana letters is too dark, as well, as are the yellow markings on the fighter in front.

There is no way anyone could mistake this for sunfading; after all the fakes are darker (not lighter!) and also more blurred.
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Post by Specineff »

Also, look at the cockpit in the fighter. The fake looks blurred, messy, while the details in the original are perfectly clear.
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Post by Leeram »

Well, I paid £260 for my copy of Sapphire. That's about $500 so as far as I am concerned $300 is a bargain. At the moment in England Sapphire will cost about £350 from an importer. Apparently it cost a fortune even in Japan.

We pay more for everything in England though so it's all relative, it costs me £40 to fill my car up with petrol and if you go into any city centre pub it wil cost you £3.00 for a Bottle of Bud.

I don't regrett paying what I paid for it but I do know for a fact that mine is not a fake. I think the game really shows off the PCE hardware and is a top game in itself. No it's not worth £260 but Darius Alpha isn't worth a grand and Time Gal isn't worth £400.

But if you want the original at a time prices are high then you have to pay the money. I only own originals (apart from the copy of Sapphire I made so I don't have to put the actual Sapphire CD into my Duo!) because I like to have the proper packaging etc.

You get what you pay for and pay for what you want. Some people I know pay over £300 per year on football season tickets. Now, in my opinion, that's dumb, but to them it's worth every penny.

If you can't afford or aren't bothered about owning the original then a bootleg is a good alternative, although there's no way on this earth I would pay more than the price of a CD for one. What's the point when you can download and burn them off the net? Unless you want to try to palm them off as real on somebody...

Cheers

Leeram
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DC906270
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Post by DC906270 »

right on Leeram :)
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Ceph
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Post by Ceph »

Most likely another fake: 8210119621

The upper half of the katakana letters looks orange instead of light yellow.

Don't be fooled by the low price!
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Post by Palmer Eldritch »

Leeram wrote:Well, I paid £260 for my copy of Sapphire.
But if you want the original at a time prices are high then you have to pay the money.
You get what you pay for and pay for what you want.
Cheers

Leeram
Exactly. I paid even more for my copy from VGI four months ago, but I wanted the game at the time, and I knew there was a price to pay for being 100% sure of receiving a legit copy.
Great game Btw.
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Post by al138 »

Leeram wrote:Well, I paid £260 for my copy of Sapphire. That's about $500 so as far as I am concerned $300 is a bargain. At the moment in England Sapphire will cost about £350 from an importer. Apparently it cost a fortune even in Japan.

We pay more for everything in England though so it's all relative, it costs me £40 to fill my car up with petrol and if you go into any city centre pub it wil cost you £3.00 for a Bottle of Bud.

I don't regrett paying what I paid for it but I do know for a fact that mine is not a fake. I think the game really shows off the PCE hardware and is a top game in itself. No it's not worth £260 but Darius Alpha isn't worth a grand and Time Gal isn't worth £400.

But if you want the original at a time prices are high then you have to pay the money. I only own originals (apart from the copy of Sapphire I made so I don't have to put the actual Sapphire CD into my Duo!) because I like to have the proper packaging etc.

You get what you pay for and pay for what you want. Some people I know pay over £300 per year on football season tickets. Now, in my opinion, that's dumb, but to them it's worth every penny.

If you can't afford or aren't bothered about owning the original then a bootleg is a good alternative, although there's no way on this earth I would pay more than the price of a CD for one. What's the point when you can download and burn them off the net? Unless you want to try to palm them off as real on somebody...

Cheers

Leeram
You are essentially right, especially about your last point! I can appreciate if someone wants to pay $300 for a game. It's not my cup of tea, but if that's what you wish, then go for it.

I have played Sapphire, and I like it. While people may rag on it for gameplay quirks, graphically it does things on the PCE that I didn't think could be done. In that respect, its not just rare in terms of production numbers, but it's an oddity of sorts. Perhaps that factors into the price to a limited extent.
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Post by Kiken »

Ceph wrote:For comparison, there are somewhere between 20'000 and 50,000 copies of Radiant Silvergun- and people consider it rare.
Treasure produced 50,000 Saturn copies of Radiant Silvergun. They have confirmed this with their sales figures.

And let's get something straight... according to E-Bay, EVERYTHING is RARE. :/
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Post by SAM »

Well, price Radiant Silvergun stays at around $220 to $250 because one could always pick up the PCB, instead of the Saturn version.
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Post by llabnip »

SAM wrote:Well, price Radiant Silvergun stays at around $220 to $250 because one could always pick up the PCB, instead of the Saturn version.
The Saturn rev of Radiant Silvergun is only $150-$180. Typical buy-it-now prices are closer to the $180 mark where as auctions that run to completion are in the low $150's. I see it still occasionally go for $135-$145. It's not rare - 50k copies is a fairly good chunk... it's just supply and demand (more people want it than are willing ot part with it...).

Anyway, at $150, Silvergun is still the biggest dollar-to-game bargain out there!
Kiken wrote:And let's get something straight... according to E-Bay, EVERYTHING is RARE. :/
Heh! I saw an auction for a Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt that was listed as ULTRA RARE. Man, I've got like 6 of those in my basement (I use the shells to replace better carts that are in need of repair). If anyone wants one, I can let this RARE cart (WOW!) go for $50 each ;)

(I'm also willing to trade a Super Mario/Duck Hunt for a copy of Sapphire)
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Kiken
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Post by Kiken »

SAM wrote:Well, price Radiant Silvergun stays at around $220 to $250 because one could always pick up the PCB, instead of the Saturn version.
I assume you mean the S-TV cart... which doesn't possess the one game feature that blows the Saturn version out of proportion... the highly vaunted "Saturn Mode".
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Post by Ceph »

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M0nk3y
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Post by M0nk3y »

There's also quality fakes of Dracula X for the PCE kicking around.

Just thought I'd throw that out there as I know there's a lot of D-X fans here.
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Post by Ed Oscuro »

Did you report 'em?
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Post by DC906270 »

Yeah , theres been a few on there lately. i would actually rather pick up a copy of this game for like $30 rather than pay $500 for a real one, the game is only really a novelty (though still probably one of best shmups on pce) and it seems kind of hard to sell it on without making a loss on it, thats why i still have mine :oops:
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Post by Ceph »

Ed Oscuro wrote:
Did you report 'em?
I tried that in the past but ebay never reacts. Therefore I compiled a standard warning message which I send to the bidders whenever I notice a fake on ebay (with a link to that Italian webpage showing a counterfeit copy and a real one). That works better, the highest bidder already retracted his bid and thanked me.

M0nk3y wrote:There's also quality fakes of Dracula X for the PCE kicking around.

Just thought I'd throw that out there as I know there's a lot of D-X fans here.
Got a link?
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Post by Koa Zo »

ResOGlas wrote:
visuatrox wrote:Well I guess it would be possible they are sunfaded, or that they have been misprinted. From past experiences though looking at the numbers/ID on the data side of the CD can give a pretty good hint on whether it is a bootleg or not (that part seems to be difficult to replicate or overlooked by most bootleggers, even though the ID text may be the same the font often is not identical)

Wow, I never even though about the ID groove. I say that the people whom purchased these should check compared to an "authentic" one to see what's up.
The ID groove around the inner ring of the CD will say CDR somewhere in it.

I purchased a sealed bootleg of Sapphire from a Swiss eBay seller almost a year ago for $50.00. It is worth every penny.
As I mentioned in another thread recently; I have no problem buying reprinted games if it prevents having to pay inflated collectors prices.
The bootleg Sapphire has a quality reproduced booklet, properly printed disc graphic, spine card, and all the gameplay of an official version. The only difference is that some of the scanned and reprinted images are slightly grainy when closely examined.
I would be just as content playing the game on an emulator, but it is always nice to experience the packaging and be able to look at the screenshots on the jewel case or leaf through the instructions.

I feel no obligation to pay collectors absurd sums of money just to uphold some ethic that bootlegs are wrong. The publishers aren't benefiting one bit from a $500.00 eBay sale of a sealed "Genuine" Sapphire.



...now on the other hand; the bootleg PCE Dracula X I recently purchased for $20.00 (or was it $10.00?) was hardly worth it, as there is no manual and the disc graphic is a crappy bubble-jet printed decal. But I certainly get my moneys worth playing it.
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Post by scrilla4rella »

I would also pay $50 for a quality bootleg. As long as it will play without any hassle on my PCE I would be happy. All I really care about is playing the damn game. I mean thats why we all play PCE and shooters right? It's the gameplay...
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Post by Leeloo Minaï »

You are right, all we search is enjoy these dawn good games.
I bought a few months ago one of these bootleg copies which is almost perfect considering all aspects : this is like an original and i don't ask for more.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

You guys got ripped off then. The game does not run $500.
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Post by CIT »

I would never buy a Sapphire bootleg, because I think it's wrong that somebody should get $50 for something he has no right to sell. Especially since the bootleged Sapphires are always claimed to be original. It would be a bit different if it was stated that it is a bootleg.

If you want to play the game, it's possible to just burn the ISO. It's illegal, but it's not harmful since you're not supporting bootleggers and NEC/Hudson don't make any money off of the game anymore anyway.

If you want to buy an original the bottom line is: Do not purchase it on the internet. Only buy it in a well-known shop Japan where you can inspect it, or have somebody you know and trust bring you one. It's cheaper than the internet prices as well, I've currently seen it listed from 31000 to 38000 yen.
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Ceph
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Post by Ceph »

CIT wrote:I would never buy a Sapphire bootleg, because I think it's wrong that somebody should get $50 for something he has no right to sell.
Word! You are the man! (The man formerly known as Seven Force) ;-)


(What does CIT stand for, by the way?)
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Post by Ceph »

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Post by Ceph »

Since it's been a while and since quite a few have been popping up again lately I'd like to remind everyone who is interested in buying Sapphire that almost ALL copies offered on ebay are fakes.

German ebay-seller soulkatana is currently selling one counterfeit copy after the other; I took the liberty of informing the buyers of all his finished Sapphire auctions ;)
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