Pinball and Shmup connection?

[malchitos]

Now I've been a shmup fan since Space Invaders was released in arcades(When I was at the tender age of 9). But before that I was a Pinball fan too. Now I was never really good at either but I still love them, and if I see either type of machine in a pizza parlor or bar, I'll drop a few quarters on them. When I first bought the Wii, My first two VC purchases were Blazing Lasers and Alien Crush. So it's always been in the back of my mind if maybe most shmup fans are pinball fans too.

Recently I bought the Avenger's Chronicles on Pinball FX 2. I was pleasantly surprised to see a lot of familiar Shmup Forum names in the highscores so I'm guessing I'm right.

[EmperorIng]

I actually like to wonder if there's a forum dedicated to pinball machines like there is to shmups.

If there was a forum dedicated to 2D platformers like this site is to shmups I'd join that in a heartbeat. 2D platformers are my favorite genre of video-game. >>big Metroid fan after all<<

I assume there's something of a connection between any coin-op game.

I was a big pinball fan back when I was younger as well. Something very pure and elegant about a well-designed pinball machine. The new Wizard of Oz pinball machine looks like it'd be fun to play.

As far as console/portable releases...
There was that one pinball game for the gamecube that took place in medieval Japan, whose name escapes me, that looked real cool. And when I was a little kid I loved playing Kirby's Pinball Land. I never got to beat it, because it was stolen along with a lot of other GB games I had as a kid ;_;
And Pokemon Pinball was one of the first games I ever raged on yanking it out of my GBC and throwing it against the wall. Still works! I suppose that reveals me being a young whipper-snapper!

[malchitos]

I actually like to wonder if there's a forum dedicated to pinball machines like there is to shmups.

If there was a forum dedicated to 2D platformers like this site is to shmups I'd join that in a heartbeat. 2D platformers are my favorite genre of video-game. >>big Metroid fan after all<<

I assume there's something of a connection between any coin-op game.

Yeah I've looked for a good pinball forum but haven't seen one I liked.

And there is another genre I bet most of us are into "2d Platformers". I've been on Spelunky XBLA since July 4th. Damn that game beats me down so mercilessly, but I love it.(can't memorize that one! :>)

Looking forward to LA-MULANA(HD) to be released next week on PC(finally) and Dust: An Elysian Tail in August.

[Alfred]

There was that one pinball game for the gamecube that took place in medieval Japan, whose name escapes me, that looked real cool.

Odama

[MR_Soren]

I have signed up for a pinball forum in the past, but the traffic was extremely low. I've also bought a pinball machine for my apartment.

I think a lot of people on this forum enjoy pinball; it plays different than an STG, but the concepts of playing for score and improving your skill still apply.

[mice]

Yep, pinhead here too.
My local "pinball club" (http://www.stockholmpinball.com) got forums and all kinds of stuff, so I'm all set.

[xbl0x180]

I've been buying Pinball video games for the 360, PS2, and PSP ever since I got back into gaming back in late 2010. My last favourites were the South Park game and a medieval pinball (I ferget its name). I think this topic belongs in the other section, though... just sayin'

[malchitos]

I've been buying Pinball video games for the 360, PS2, and PSP ever since I got back into gaming back in late 2010. My last favourites were the South Park game and a medieval pinball (I ferget its name). I think this topic belongs in the other section, though... just sayin'

I think it's okay here...because I'm looking for connections between the two genres and how I'm thinking in some ways pinball influenced Shmups.

Already someone has mentioned how they are both score heavy....another thing to think about in that area is that Pinball started the whole multiplier thing and shmups kinda grabbed that idea up too.

Pinball started the Three Balls concept...which video games(shmups specifically) incorporated into "Lives"

In the late 70s and early 80s pinball started the multi-ball dealie...not long after Galaga started that "let one of your ships get captured then get it back" power-up which on some levels is very similar. And that lead to power-ups in the Shmup genre.

[malchitos]

I have signed up for a pinball forum in the past, but the traffic was extremely low. I've also bought a pinball machine for my apartment.

I think a lot of people on this forum enjoy pinball; it plays different than an STG, but the concepts of playing for score and improving your skill still apply.

In a way they are kinda similar. The flippers are like your guns and the ball of course is the bullet, striking various targets. The Ball exit is kinda like your hitbox.

Wow I was just thinking, breakout is kinda a merging of these two types of games...and I really love that kinda game(wizorb rules!)

[BrianC]

I'm a huge pinball fan too. I was excited to find out that there's a Pinball Museum about an hour away in Baltimore with older and newer stuff. My dad is in NC, so I also went to a place in Grandy, NC called flippers that has classic machines and newer Sterns, even the AC/DC LE (it had the pro before, but just got the LE. I liked the pro, but the LE is better with drop targets and a lower playfield) and rarities like one of the original Big Bang Bars and Cactus Canyon. I have been playing Pinball FX2 and Pinball Arcade and have been on a pinball kick as of late. I just recieved Jaki Crush in the mail (played a bit and I love it so far) and Psycho Pinball for the MD/Genesis should be arriving soon. I also have some PC pinball games like Crystal Caliburn and three of the four Pro Pinball games (only missing The Web).

[antron]

Anyone know why this forum is hosted on a pinball site?
http://www.system11.org/

[professor ganson]

Psikyo was mainly about developing shmups, of course, but Gunbarich is a cool hybrid video pinball game. They must have shared the interest in pinball as well.

I think pinball videogames are my next favorite after shmups and srpgs. I also like actual pinball, of course, but it's pretty rare that I get a chance to play.

[Remembrance]

One thing I'd like to ask the folks in this thread: how do you reconcile the randomness of pinball with the precision of shmups?

I started looking into pinball lately, and gradually noticed that players seem to want control over the ball to be unpredictable. This is to the point that you hear complaints about how the pinball video games are too easy to control. On the other hand, with shmups, we demand that our controls be predictable and consistent.

It seems like these would be irreconcilable opposites, but I seem to enjoy both nevertheless.

[EmperorIng]

Um, well, I don't really ask the same thing from a pinball game that I ask from a shmup. Or a CRPG (like I don't complain that Fallout 1 isn't as fast-paced and furious as DoDonPachi). You different types of games for different reasons, after all.

[Deca]

I'm not near as serious about pinball as I am about stgs but I do play quite a bit. Coworkers at my current job got me into it, playing at the arcade downtown during out lunch break. Most of my time is on Medieval Madness but we more recently started playing Addams Family. There are definitely a fair amount of similarities between the genres, they attract a lot of the same sorts of people.

[caldwert]

Most people I know locally who are into shmups are also into pinball as well. Similar circles of arcade junkies it seems. Always have been into pinball since I was a very small child.

[geremy]

Many shmup posters/flyers look like they could be the vertical part of a pinball machine. Just imagine inset displays...

[professor ganson]

One thing I'd like to ask the folks in this thread: how do you reconcile the randomness of pinball with the precision of shmups?

I do think some shmuppers find the random side of pinball disconcerting. I recall that the randomness aspect really bugged Rob (who used to post here) at first, but I kept talking video pinball with him and he eventually really got into it.

[mice]

The recent Stern pinballs have more luck in them than the most popular 90s machines. "More fun for everyone" is their motto.
As long as you hit what you aim at and that shot is safe, there is no (bad) luck i pinballs.

Struggling to see any connections between the two "sports". I don't play shmups for score but I sure do that when playing pinball.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yeah, I enjoy a good game of pinball. I've noticed that if I want to try out the latest & newest pinball machines, is to head on down to the local bowling alley (of all places to find 'em there).

The Nascar pinball machine that's up & running at the local Funworks joint in Modesto, CA has my highest score for all to see with 276+ million. It's not an easy game to play with just 3 balls per credit though. I was aiming for at least 300 million but it seemed the very last ball in play just went down the drain rather quickly (considering no two games are alike anyways).

During my days in junior college, there was a Williams Terminator 2: Judgement Day pinball machine in the student center's arcade section. It was literally possible to tilt the pinball machine back enough so that you could save your ball from going down the drain (and it wouldn't even tilt whatsoever). So, it was quite possible to score some major points doing that low brow method.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[malchitos]

I'm a huge pinball fan too. I was excited to find out that there's a Pinball Museum about an hour away in Baltimore with older and newer stuff. My dad is in NC, so I also went to a place in Grandy, NC called flippers that has classic machines and newer Sterns, even the AC/DC LE (it had the pro before, but just got the LE. I liked the pro, but the LE is better with drop targets and a lower playfield) and rarities like one of the original Big Bang Bars and Cactus Canyon. I have been playing Pinball FX2 and Pinball Arcade and have been on a pinball kick as of late. I just recieved Jaki Crush in the mail (played a bit and I love it so far) and Psycho Pinball for the MD/Genesis should be arriving soon. I also have some PC pinball games like Crystal Caliburn and three of the four Pro Pinball games (only missing The Web).

There used to be a PC game way back in the day that allowed the user to create pinball tables. Pinball Construction Set I believe it was called. Really should see if some abandon site has that one. Also in about the same time period that company released a Shmup Construction Set.

[malchitos]

Psikyo was mainly about developing shmups, of course, but Gunbarich is a cool hybrid video pinball game. They must have shared the interest in pinball as well.

I think pinball videogames are my next favorite after shmups and srpgs. I also like actual pinball, of course, but it's pretty rare that I get a chance to play.

Oh yeah I nearly forgot about Gunbarich...shame on me. Yeah I rarely get to play a physical pinball machine of late...unless of course I take the nieces or nephews to Chucky Cheese.

[malchitos]

One thing I'd like to ask the folks in this thread: how do you reconcile the randomness of pinball with the precision of shmups?

I started looking into pinball lately, and gradually noticed that players seem to want control over the ball to be unpredictable. This is to the point that you hear complaints about how the pinball video games are too easy to control. On the other hand, with shmups, we demand that our controls be predictable and consistent.

It seems like these would be irreconcilable opposites, but I seem to enjoy both nevertheless.

Oh not me...Luck and I aren't very good friends, So I prefer that I be able to control the ball. I like being able to find sweet spots in a pinball game. I liken it to finding a spot in a bullet pattern.

[malchitos]

The recent Stern pinballs have more luck in them than the most popular 90s machines. "More fun for everyone" is their motto.
As long as you hit what you aim at and that shot is safe, there is no (bad) luck i pinballs.

Struggling to see any connections between the two "sports". I don't play shmups for score but I sure do that when playing pinball.

Well there's another example of Shmups and Pinball taking the same path, trying to appeal to a casual market to survive.

[xbl0x180]

I play pinball to survive, that's fer sure. Medieval Madness is one of the best and most fun I have played

[Ed Oscuro]

Psikyo was mainly about developing shmups, of course, but Gunbarich is a cool hybrid video pinball game. They must have shared the interest in pinball as well.

I think pinball videogames are my next favorite after shmups and srpgs. I also like actual pinball, of course, but it's pretty rare that I get a chance to play.

Beat me to it.

Gunbarich does have some "randomness" to it, in that if you manage to get a ball across the top of some early stages you can get half of a five-stage game's score right then and there. Multipliers definitely do not balance that game for survival play; it's much more dependent on strategy.

Pinballs have one long-standing ill effect on arcade games - the tilt sensor. Every now and then I stumble across a game in MAME that throws up "TILT" after Shift+F7 and selecting "t" as a savestate...easily solved by unbinding key "t" in the game, of course, and usually you should be able to salvage the savestate too.

[GhostSeed]

During my days in junior college, there was a Williams Terminator 2: Judgement Day pinball machine in the student center's arcade section. It was literally possible to tilt the pinball machine back enough so that you could save your ball from going down the drain (and it wouldn't even tilt whatsoever). So, it was quite possible to score some major points doing that low brow method.

That was such a hard table, I remember losing so many balls right down the middle. I've always loved shooters and pinball games too. I think my favorite pinball tables were,

Attack from Mars
Theater of Magic

If I had the money and space I'd love to get these some day.

[Rozyrg]

I love pinball, too, although admittedly I haven't played on an actual machine in over a decade.

Other than also being something that was played at video arcades, the emphasis on scoring and accomplishing simple, straightforward goals, I can't really pinpoint a 'connection', though. That said, Naxat's phenomenal Crush Pinball series definitely scratches the same itch for me as some of my favorite shooters... it's just so metal.

[Drum]

I couldn't let this thread go by without anyone mentioning Nitro Ball.
So: Nitro Ball.

[sven666]

i think the fundamentals of shmups and pinball are quite similar, chasing highscore by either milking easy targets or exploiting tricks.

another similarity is that they take alot of practice/skill which to an uneducated bystander seems like luck.

I love pinball, have a star wars table myself (great underrated game imo), would love some more but space and high-maintenance are big drawbacks for me, the price is pretty steep on alot of machines aswell.