Pinball and Shmup connection?

[drboom]

Price and maintenence were the things that held me back for years, but I dug in and now can fix quite a bit under a playfield. I have to say, I am a huge fan of late 1970's, early 1980's pins. 1990's DMD's do very little for me. I like fast, mean tables. Paragon, Embryon, Iron Maiden and Big Game, I all own, all from 1979-1981.

i think the fundamentals of shmups and pinball are quite similar, chasing highscore by either milking easy targets or exploiting tricks.

Totally agree.

[MR_Soren]

Price and maintenence were the things that held me back for years, but I dug in and now can fix quite a bit under a playfield. I have to say, I am a huge fan of late 1970's, early 1980's pins. 1990's DMD's do very little for me. I like fast, mean tables. Paragon, Embryon, Iron Maiden and Big Game, I all own, all from 1979-1981.

i think the fundamentals of shmups and pinball are quite similar, chasing highscore by either milking easy targets or exploiting tricks.

Totally agree.

Totally love Embryon. There was a table in a local arcade. It was always stuck in the back because it's wide body prevented it from lining up with the other pins. It was probably sold off in the early 90s when that arcade was going out of business. Wish I could have bought it, but I was a teen with no money or place to put it.

Only pinball machine I own right now is Flash (Williams, 1979) and I hope to do some restoration on it, but I won't be able to do much with it until I have a house. It barely fits in my apartment as it is.

[sven666]

heres a series of plays by excellent players, shows alot of skill and also talks you thru how each games scoring system works.
you could almost put the soundtrack on top of a battle garegga vid and it would still work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVwwGut ... ature=plcp

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

heres a series of plays by excellent players, shows alot of skill and also talks you thru how each games scoring system works.
you could almost put the soundtrack on top of a battle garegga vid and it would still work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVwwGut ... ature=plcp

Nice! I like that camera setup. That would be a nice camera angle option on digital pinball.

[Frenetic]

When I was a young scamp and visiting the local arcade everyday (never had money, mind you). I would just walk around and watch people play video games all the time or if there weren't people playing I'd just stand in front of an arcade machine and watch the attract mode.

I have a very special place in my heart for pinball because of the MATCH for a free game. This would be the only time when I'd be able to play a game. So I'd go to each pinball machine and press the credit button. I swear, that sound of having a pinball start up on a free game was pure music to my ears.

I collect a lot of video pinball: Flipnic, the Williams Pinball Collection, Neo Golden Logres on Dreamcast, the recent Xbox 360 games, Pinball MAME (gotta have my Scared Stiff fix)--Metroid Pinball on DS is one of my favorite pinball games. Everytime I go to Las Vegas I must visit the Pinball Hall of Fame. Am thinking about going to one of the open pinball competitions in Riverside (It Never Drains in Southern California). There's also some local warehouses in Santa Ana that I visit to get my fix.

As for owning a pin...I think if I had bought one, I would start stockpiling pinballs. Better to leave that particular hobby a treat rather than a job of collecting. Also, the maintenance...YIKES.

Though if I won the lottery I would like to have a Vulcan, Black Hole, Black Knight, Meteor, Funhouse, Scared Stiff, Twilight Zone, Addams Family, Terminator 2, Theatre of Magic, Whirlwind, Medieval Madness, Comet, Dr. Who, Star Trek,Star Trek: TNG, AND <takes deep breath>, a Pinball Circus.

--the F-man

[Op Intensify]

I have a very special place in my heart for pinball because of the MATCH for a free game. This would be the only time when I'd be able to play a game. So I'd go to each pinball machine and press the credit button. I swear, that sound of having a pinball start up on a free game was pure music to my ears.

This seems like a good place to ask this question.

What's with the really, really loud "POP" noise whenever a pinball machine awards a free game? Is it just to alert the player, or is it some electrical thing?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

That loud "Thwack" sound effect is just to let others nearby, alert them, that you've earned a free game.

Or if you get a special, awarded a random match & score a replay altogether (it's possible to earn all three during a serious pinball session indeed), the CPU will let out a loud thwack for each free game earned.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[MR_Soren]

What's with the really, really loud "POP" noise whenever a pinball machine awards a free game? Is it just to alert the player, or is it some electrical thing?

That's the knocker. Something physically strikes the inside of the cabinet on older games. It is digitally reproduced on newer games.

The purpose is to let everybody in the room know that you are fucking awesome.

I think STGs would attract more attention if they made some ruckus whenever somebody got a new high score.

[sven666]

that would be so cool to have a knocker in the cab whenever the alltime high is bested

[Avatar Ignis]

I've always been horrible at pinball, but I once had a gameboy game called "alligator pinball" or something like that. put so many days into that thing

[sven666]

I've always been horrible at pinball, but I once had a gameboy game called "alligator pinball" or something like that. put so many days into that thing

revenge of the gator

[KidQuaalude]

Big fan of pinball here too. On a big pinball kick lately inspired by 'The Pinball Arcade'. Currently sourcing parts to build a cheap HyperPin cabinet (like MAME for pinball). Check out vpforums.org for more info.

I see a lot of common ground between shmups and pinball and I think I enjoy them for similar reasons (many ways to score, targets to hit etc) However I enjoy the fact that no two games of pinball are the same, provides a lot more variation than playing shmups where I get bored dying at the same place time and time again until I make that bit of slow progress (more talking specifically about cave games here). I don't hit that plateaux in pinball.

[Vamos]

Another big pinball fan here and very fortunate to have 5 stern machines near by in weston supermare to play big buck, spiderman ,batman, shrek and transformers good times! Although i do prefer older machines from the 70,s and 80,s after playing many using Vpinball 9 (highly recommended great physics! older tables especially looks amazing in desktop and tate fullscreen.) Love stars and black hole , genie , lectronamo etc! Just waiting far to patiently for pinball arcade to hit pc but yes i think there are some links between the 2 mainly being hi score chasing through skilled play and instant action . As mentioned earlier the vpforums are a great place for people wanting to try out and enjoy digital remakes of great real tables just make sure you go with vp9 instead of vp8 the physics is far superior and just look how good some tables look .
http://www.vpforums.org/uploads/dsfiles ... 285368.jpg

[TheSoundofRed]

my Sorcerer machine just arrived a week ago. Amazing machine and in great condition considering it was made in 1985.

Word to the wise, if you're planning on buying and shipping a pinball machine, make sure to measure the door frame to your location. Also, you'll want some experience with electronics to troubleshoot the problems that will arise (I had to rebuild the drop target mechanism and replace multiple bulbs, secure a few solder joints so far).

Owning a pin is amazing, but definitely comes with a fair bit of maintenance. Lucky for me I also have multiple locations with great pins within a reasonable driving distance. Gotta love New England!

[Rozyrg]

my Sorcerer machine just arrived a week ago.

Lucky you, that's probably my all time favorite pin! One of our local arcades used to have one and I fell in love with it again when I picked up the Williams Pinball Hall of Fame disc for Wii. I simply love the menacing backglass art (again, so metal) and sfx... how the Sorcerer taunts you as you play is simply brilliant, too!

YOU ARE DONE MORTAL

[Frederik]

One thing I'd like to ask the folks in this thread: how do you reconcile the randomness of pinball with the precision of shmups?

I started looking into pinball lately, and gradually noticed that players seem to want control over the ball to be unpredictable. This is to the point that you hear complaints about how the pinball video games are too easy to control. On the other hand, with shmups, we demand that our controls be predictable and consistent.

It seems like these would be irreconcilable opposites, but I seem to enjoy both nevertheless.

I´ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I´ve been slowly getting bored with shmups in the recent year or two, with no real other games filling the gap, until I got The Pinball Arcade on my iPad and decided to finally get a 360 to play the "proper" version (which, ironically, has some pretty nasty DLC problems right now, there´s still only the first 4 starter tables because Microsoft is being an ass - on the other hand, I started rediscovering shmups thanks to Akai Katana, so it balances out ).

So here´s my take on it:

In pinball you actually can have a lot more control over the ball than it first seems. You often see people just slamming the ball up again when it comes down (often with the two flippers at once), just to keep it away. However, after a while you learn to trap the ball safely (cradle it by holding one of the flippers), and even switch sides by doing a quick flip, causing the ball to bounce to the other flipper.

Multiball is even more interesting, oftentimes what you want to do is keep at least two balls in play to keep the mode - and the jackpot! - going. You try to keep one ball safe on one of the flippers and do jackpot shots with the other one, which can involve a lot of tricky little flipper acrobatics, but is very satisfying.

Here´s a very nice tutorial video for Medieval Madness, explaining a lot of basic tricks:
http://pinball.org/videos/tutorials/medieval-madness/

A lot of modern tables have the little lights arranged in a way that they already indicate the right angles you want to aim for. So most of the time you´ll want to get the ball under control when it comes to you, and then do a focussed, aimed shot at one of your targets. It´s only when you miss a shot that it starts getting out of control, and one of the big risks in pinball is actually not the center drain (between the two flippers), but the sidedrains - once the ball goes in there you´re as good as dead, so you want to minimize the risk of the ball getting near them.

One of my favourite tables is Whirlwind, a very typical Pat Lawlor table (who also did Addams Family, Twilight Zone and Funhouse),
I love the theme, the way the music changes, and the sweet upper loop shots Lawlor is notorious for:

http://pinball.org/videos/tutorials/whirlwind/

Two great videos at the Stern factory, with Pat Lawlor and Steve Ritchie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd30x-cDxvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqs7oLm8Igs

And The Pinball Arcade is a really great place to start playing pinball, it´s on iOS, Android, PS3, Vita, 360 and Mac right now, with more ports coming later on. The "Williams Pinball Classics" collection for 360 and PS3 is a very nice collection as well, with enough classics to keep you busy for months, including Whirlwind, Funhouse, Medieval Madness, No Good Gofers, Taxi... It has an older version of the ball physics engine, though, that is slightly slower and a bit, eh, weirder, but still absolutely fun to play and, in my opinion, blows the whole "fantasy pinball" genre right out of the water. You can really tell that these tables have been designed by industry veterans!

And as usual I´m starved for some real arcade action here, but I´m going on vacation in Holland soon, and I already checked: The place where I´m staying has "Revenge From Mars" and the Stern Indiana Jones waiting for me, really looking forward to these

[Frederik]

my Sorcerer machine just arrived a week ago.

YOU ARE DONE MORTAL

Yeah, I really love that one. Very clever table, especially for the time! I love the spinners on the old sound chip tables, they make this nice "pew pew pew" sounds when you hit them They had really great "grim" tables during that time, with Black Knight (NOW FIGHT AGAINST zzzREE ENEMIES!) and Gorgar (ME GOT YOU).

[Avatar Ignis]

I've always been horrible at pinball, but I once had a gameboy game called "alligator pinball" or something like that. put so many days into that thing

revenge of the gator

Thats it! now that catchy theme song popped up into my head

[KAI]

Scoring mechanics aside, since you don't have to dodge things on a pinball, i think there's no connection between them.
Beatmania IIDX and Danmaku Shmups connection?

[TheSoundofRed]

YOU ARE DONE MORTAL

It has the most infuriating multiball I've ever played, so it's good it's easy to enter. I love the sound when the ball flys up the metal left ramp and down into the lock.

A friend was visiting from Vancouver and managed to get up to 7.2 million. I've only reached about 2.2 million.

It definitely has that "1 more game" factor. The bad part about owning a Pinball Machine is the desire to acquire MORE and MORE of them. Thinking maybe Big Guns... Another great Williams game.

[Frederik]

It´s quite ironic that pinball got almost entirely killed by videogames (which mostly started with shooters), and now shooters are themselves almost extinct. And nowadays most new pinball machines are marketed directly to the home owners market. It´s a crazy world we live in!

And it´s sad that pinball never really made it big in japan, could have created some fantastic crossovers. (Though pachinko obviously has the same roots in the ancient "Bagatelle" games.)

One of these days I need to learn how to program virtual tables and create "Parodius Pinball Paradise" or "Mushihimesama Multiball Madness". Should go together like bread and butter!

[Rozyrg]

And it´s sad that pinball never really made it big in japan, could have created some fantastic crossovers.

..or a real life Devil's Crush table.

[sven666]

i would love to see an actual metroid table, superb theme that fits pinball perfectly imo, the GBA game is ace!

a local guy is making his own Bioshock table that looks amazing (actually quite a few swedes are making their own tables, real pros with DMDs and moulded figures etc), cant wait to see it completed and maybe have a go.

[ShmupSamurai]

My favorite pinball machince is an interesting little piece I got from my uncle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radio-Shack-AIR ... 0437253340

A small electronic pinball game with unique anime-ish characters, that shockingly, uses a plastic disc in place of a ball, with an image of the game's protaganist-a kirby wannabe named "Photon"-and moves it around via air vents akin to Air Hockey...I still have mine in my closet, and it still works too! Worth noting that the box of the unit in the image on the link is completely different looking from the one my Air Hockey machince in sits in.

Deeply sorry about the ebay link, but it's like nigh impossible to find any pictures of this game anywhere...

[shmuppyLove]

Beatmania IIDX and Danmaku Shmups connection?

Riding a bicycle to deliver printed news and shmups connection?

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

There really should be more video game themed pinball tables. I guess it's because they were competing in arcades is the reason that not very many were made. The only ones I can think of are Mario Bros. and Street Fighter II.

[KidQuaalude]

My new visual pinball/mame box 24" pinball playfield and 15" screen for back glass/score display. I coded a menu system that allows selection of over 150 visual pinball tables and over 2000 arcade games via usb joystick. MAME set up to display horizontal games on top screen and verticals on lower screen. Stupidly easy build using a wheeled plastic storage box.

[Turrican]

Yeah I've looked for a good pinball forum but haven't seen one I liked.

How about this one?

http://www.digitalpinballfans.com/content.php