Under Defeat HD

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Damocles
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Damocles »

You mean the fire that comes from the bottom after he fires the main shot?
superstarsiro
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by superstarsiro »

yeah the scattered shots
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

There are two sequences of fire on the stage 5 boss's final form that come up after the large cannon fires:

The fast, evenly spaced linear rows of shot... the intended way to dodge this is to sit over the middle of the "H" on either of the two helipads (in the upper left and right of the screen). Be warned, this is not a 100% safe spot... more like 80%+ (I personally just move into the corner and perform a tap dodge if needed), this pattern is no different in the second loop...

This is followed by the blast wave which pushes the player helicopter up the screen...

Then there is the slow, randomly placed bullet pattern. On the first loop, the pattern isn't too dense and normally there are fairly large gaps, however it can create some damn-near undodgeable situations that will require bombing. On the second loop, this sequence has twice the density and twice the randomness... good luck.
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Damocles
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Damocles »

What Kiken said.

I just move to the edge of the screen for the first barrage and hope for the best. Same thing for the second cluster. Supaplayaz here, yo.
wiNteR
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by wiNteR »

Well I had a fairly good no-bomb consistency on that boss (actually I would likely die more often on the first two forms). Perhaps it was mostly because of the fact that I practiced that boss a lot. If you practice it enough, you will eventually get used to it.

It is also worth noting that main difference between loop is the second pattern in the return fire. The random bullet spam that is. In the first loop that one is easy. In the second loop however, its difficulty can vary a lot. That's why first loop boss is significantly easier than second loop boss.

But notice that most of the other stuff is barely changed, apart from suicide bullets on boss parts in second loop (in second form).

As for the strategy for dealing with return fire (in third form), it's the same in both loops (the best one that I could find). First of all when the cannon is moving, you wanna stay alert and you also want the angle between vertical and the cannon (when it fires) to be fairly low. It is certainly easier to deal with the return fire when the bullets are moving at smaller angle w.r.t. vertical line.

After the cannon fires, I quickly move to extreme upper-left or upper-right corners. Which of the corner you move depends on the cannon's direction when it fires (you want to maximize the distance). Lets assume you are on extreme upper-right corner. Now when the evenly spaced lines of shots come, you want to look at them carefully and either stay still or move to left slightly. It takes some practice to discern and get used to amount of tapping to be done, but eventually you can get a very high consistency rate with that. Another thing to note is that when the angle of cannon with vertical is very close to 0 the bullets would come to you quicker than if it was, say, close to 15-degrees.

For the second pattern in the return fire (the bullet spam one), after dodging the first pattern, I quickly move very close to cannon (that is very close to middle of screen) without hitting my heli of course. Certainly I move as close to middle as I reasonably can (while still staying at top-most part of the screen). Then when the pattern comes, gradually start moving to the corner as you see fit. I don't move in the other direction (towards the centre that is). By the time you reach the corner, most of the times the bullet spam would already be over.

Also notice that in first loop the first pattern in the return fire is more risky to dodge than the second one (with my strategy at least). In the second loop it's the opposite.

To give you an idea, after clearing the game, I was messing around with practice for 1-5 boss. After dying a couple of times on first and second forms, I managed to no-bomb that boss about 6 times in a row. My general consistency with that boss was also quite high.

So it does work well, but you might have to practice quite a bit. I would definitely recommend at least trying this strategy for the second pattern in return fire (if you wanna bomb the first pattern). That should be relatively easier to learn for first loop final boss.
superstarsiro
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by superstarsiro »

thanks a lot.
i practiced a lot and i simply got tired of trying to align the cannon vertically, because sometimes i get hit by the big bullet.
so i just run from it and whenever it fires i position myself according to its angle using the helipad as reference.sometimes i need to tap dodge but it is doable.
About the second pattern i haven't tried your tactics yet because sometimes it is just easy to dodge, and as i have improved the other parts, i usually have a couple of bombs on my last life to deal with it :D
I feel quite comfortable with it.
now i have only to pull it off in a real game. :D
wish me good luck, thunderforce style 8)
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Pretas
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Pretas »

Are they planning to eventually extend the PS3 patch to the US version, or will it remain Japan-only?
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Kollision
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kollision »

superstarsiro wrote:wish me good luck, thunderforce style 8)
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Good luck!

:mrgreen:
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Mero
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Mero »

There's actually some video's of New Order+ out there at long last.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21624394
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ciox
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by ciox »

Mero wrote:There's actually some video's of New Order+ out there at long last.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21624394
Nice, to me it looks like the warning gauge will actually halt/slowdown the stage scrolling when it's maxed out, just so the extra enemy spawns don't overwhelm you, look at how long 1-3 takes to clear in this version
My guess is this whole mechanic was added to balance the sheer spammy power of the alternate ships and to provide some way for them to score like the default ship can, if it works right anyway.
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professor ganson
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by professor ganson »

Serraxor wrote:Just received word from Rising Star that Under Defeat HD is now just $19.99 on the PSN store.
This requires a jp account, right?
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Kiken
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Kiken »

professor ganson wrote:
Serraxor wrote:Just received word from Rising Star that Under Defeat HD is now just $19.99 on the PSN store.
This requires a jp account, right?
Rising Star did not distribute the game in Japan.

I don't know if this URL could be any longer...

Next time Serraxor, post a link.
Stevas
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Stevas »

So let me get this straight:

There's a new patch, which includes a free arrange version of the game (among a few fixes).

It's currently only out on JAP PS3.

So I bought the PAL 360 version.

Fuck me?
Last edited by Stevas on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rupert H
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Rupert H »

The patch is out on JPN 360. Just boot your game while connected to XBL and you will have UDHD+.
Stevas
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Stevas »

Thanks, but uh... see my cheeky edit.
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Rupert H
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Rupert H »

Right, well that's your problem right there then. Good luck with Rising Star.
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professor ganson
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by professor ganson »

Thx, Kiken!
superstarsiro
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by superstarsiro »

I can't believe it...
I died while the boss was exploding...
I was so close :cry:

Edit: eventually i did it! First loop of course lol! I also spared 1 life. Still shaking!
Great game! I feel so awesome! 8)
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by stryc9 »

Nice work dude! :)
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eatfrog
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by eatfrog »

Rising star on twitter re patch for xbox360:
We haven't currently had any contact with G.Rev
:(
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Pretas
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Pretas »

Sounds like they bailed on G.Rev after the game failed to sell, just like with Cave and Akai Katana. Guess I can give up hope for my US PS3 copy getting the patch.
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Tokyo-J
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Tokyo-J »

I am thankful for the patch after a long time waiting. Luckily no one bought my Xbox 360 version :)
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hermit crab
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by hermit crab »

£6 for the Xbox version brand new on amazon.co.uk, £8 for PS3. Demand apparently isn't too high, that's a shame. Good deal if there is someone that still wants it tho. Similar price for Akai Katana too btw.
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dave4shmups
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by dave4shmups »

I got this for my PS3 today. Is it just me, or did the Dreamcast version have a LOT better controls? I've been playing this with the dual stick setup, but it's a lot harder dodging bullets using analog sticks. I don't remember what the control setup(s) were for the Dreamcast version, since it's been a long time since I played it. (Back when I used to sell and buy systems every 5 seconds, which I no longer do.)
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Jeneki
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by Jeneki »

I hope this doesn't sound too obvious, but since you bring up dual stick mode, have you tried using the d-pad to move instead of the left analog stick?
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dave4shmups
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by dave4shmups »

Jeneki wrote:I hope this doesn't sound too obvious, but since you bring up dual stick mode, have you tried using the d-pad to move instead of the left analog stick?
Yep, and I've been getting better and better using the d-pad. It's just been SO long since I last played Under Defeat-about 7 or 8 years. And I still LOVE the explosions! :D Stuff blows up REAL good! :D
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NeoStrayCat
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by NeoStrayCat »

If anyone is interested in this still, the PSN (US) store, has been updated, and UD-HD has now received a permanent price drop to $10. Retail copies are still around $20 if you know where to look.
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synapse
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by synapse »

Hello. I have a question for shmup experts here :P

I've always been a fan of the Dreamcast and Under Defeat is one of my favorite games for the system.

So I was looking at ebay prices the other day and the game ranges from $70 to $200 or so, depending on standard or limited edition, item conditions and seller's greed I guess.

Then I remembered, "hey I think there was some HD version announced or something, let's see if it was ever released"... And it surprised me that it was available for both PS3 and Xbox 360. Amazon Spain has them in stock, for about 15 €.

So yeah, my question is, do you guys really think the Dreamcast version is worth the investment or should I do the logical thing and buy it cheap for the PS3 while I can? Apart from an extra, widescreen mode, does it feature any other update or important different I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance :)
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rancor
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by rancor »

This thread shows the differences side-by-side:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 37#p772237
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synapse
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Re: Under Defeat HD

Post by synapse »

rancor wrote:This thread shows the differences side-by-side:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 37#p772237
Uhm... Thanks. I guess the DC version is still the winner? It's sooooo much cheaper for the PS3...
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